Do me favor 1-10 rate these aspects of LO's game. It will benifit LG. It will lessen my LO posts
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lakerbadger
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:15 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Quote:
Why would you want to evaluate a PF on his 3pt shooting?


Over 25% of his shots this year have been threes.

Quote:
5.5 assists a game is probably tops for any non-pg in the L


That comment caught my interest, so I looked it up. The best assist average in the league for a non-guard is Brad Miller with 6.4.


My only point is that scoring is just part of the game, not 4/9 of the game. If you break down every aspect of his scoring, of course it's not going to be impressive. One of LO's strength's is that he is multi-dimensional scorer, so I give his overall scoring ability a 7.5.

Good find with miller, I forgot about him even though he's on my fantasy team. Ok, LO's is second among non-pg's, still pretty impressive.

I think he's second or 3rd option, depending on the team he's on. On this team, I can see him developing into a legitimate second option if they can gel together.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:40 pm    Post subject:

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My only point is that scoring is just part of the game, not 4/9 of the game.


That's a valid point if you view the nine categories as equally weighted parts of a formula, so that you could generate an overall player rating by adding up the scores. I just find it interesting to see how people rate the various aspects of his game.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject:

Rebounding - 9. He's not worth a 10, it's not like he gets 9-13 rebs a night like KG and Duncan usually do. There are games where he falls short, but when he wants rebounds, he can get them. Unfortunately, it's NOT all 82 games.

Midrange shot - 6. He should be a killer shooter from there because he does have solid form. Unfortunately, he's not.

Long range shot - 3. Some shots are ill-advised. Poor lift. Pulls the ball back too far close to his head prior to the release point, making a 110* degree of motion with the shooting arm rather than 90* or less. 31% is barely decent, but not enough to make defenders close out on him behind the arc.

Layup - 7. Not the best finisher. NEVER puts the ball high enough on the glass to get a proper bank angle. Odom is a clear example of how to shoot flat layups that rim off. Other times in transition, he nails it just right.

And-1. I don't judge this criteria. Odom isn't a weak player at SF and it takes a unique physical talent and level of concentration to convert those shots. Not even Bryant is THAT great at converting And-1 situations all the time.

Defense. 6.5. Could certainly be better, but most definitely doesn't get burned as badly as he did at PF. At PF, I'd give him a 3, just because he couldn't hold position against almost all starting PFs.

Brains. How on earth do you interpret this? It's too general. It could mean hoop IQ, reflexes, instinct, successions of moves, etc.

Coexistance with Bryant. - 5. He lacks offensive aggression when he's on the floor. He's purposely sets up Bryant in the triangle rather than looking for his own shot as a #2 option. Could be an 8 if he would just attack the basket far more often and get to the FT line.

A/TO ratio. Depends. For a PG/Initiator, 6. As a SF, 9, since 2:1 is awfully high for a SF, but average for a PG. Why do you think the Lakers have so many turnover problems? Not enough ball-handling/passing/decision-making skills to run the offense more fluidly, let alone longer than 2 consecutive minutes of actual game time.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:19 pm    Post subject:

*RB's- 9
*15ft. Shot- 4
*Outside Shot- 4
*Lay up- 7
*Finishing off the "And 1" - 5
*Defense - 6 (should be a 7 - 8 but refs simply don't cut him any slack)
*Ability to play with Kobe(right fit for the team) - still to be determined
*Asst/TO ratio - 7
*Brains - if it has more to do with his on-court awareness I give him a 7, but if it has more to do with his aggressiveness then for me it's more of a 5. That's (aggressiveness) the only problem in LO's game that I have a problem with. I could live with the shooting %.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:26 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
*RB's-10 (I did it for you)
*15ft. Shot-
*Outside Shot-
*Lay up-
*Finishing off the "And 1"
*Defense
*Brains
*Ability to play with Kobe(right fit for the team)
*Asst/TO ratio


Rebounds - 10
15 ft. shot - 6
Outside shot - 3
Lay up - 7
Finishing off the And 1 - 3
Defense - 6
Brains - 7
Ability to play with Kobe - 8
Asst/TO ratio - 6

I don't know what you're looking for Bounty - you hate his game and the only thing that will change your mind is if we win a championship with him as a main cog.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Do me favor 1-10 rate these aspects of LO's game. It will benifit LG. It will lessen my LO posts

*RB's-9
*15ft. Shot-6
*Outside Shot-6
*Lay up-7
*Finishing off the "And 1"-6
*Defense-6
*Brains-6
*Ability to play with Kobe(right fit for the team)-6
*Asst/TO ratio-7
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:41 am    Post subject:

I think one of the overall conclusions you have to reach, is that Lamar should be better than he is... We know he has the length and athleticism... Most people seem to rate him fairly average, or below average, in everything, but his rebounding.

What I see, in Lamar, is a player that looks like he is about to shine, as a superstar, then, something happens... Sometimes, I seriously think Lamar kind of "spaces out", mentally. It's almost like he's left the bounds of this earth, and he's playing in his own dream world.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:58 am    Post subject:

LakersSpirit wrote:
I think one of the overall conclusions you have to reach, is that Lamar should be better than he is... We know he has the length and athleticism... Most people seem to rate him fairly average, or below average, in everything, but his rebounding.

What I see, in Lamar, is a player that looks like he is about to shine, as a superstar, then, something happens... Sometimes, I seriously think Lamar kind of "spaces out", mentally. It's almost like he's left the bounds of this earth, and he's playing in his own dream world.

Length and athleticism in a league full of them doesnt separate anything. Especially if its not UTILIZED.
"Should be better" as you say, is a funny statement. Shouldnt most ballers be better than they are when you just look at them. "Should" means he hasnt going on his 7th year. So this seems to be where the line is drawn between LO guys and Not. My side of the fence says he is what he is inconsistently just above avg. the other side is, "he is avg", but......
Fair?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:12 am    Post subject:

andrewonearth wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Quote:
Why would you want to evaluate a PF on his 3pt shooting?


Over 25% of his shots this year have been threes.

Quote:
5.5 assists a game is probably tops for any non-pg in the L


That comment caught my interest, so I looked it up. The best assist average in the league for a non-guard is Brad Miller with 6.4.


My only point is that scoring is just part of the game, not 4/9 of the game. If you break down every aspect of his scoring, of course it's not going to be impressive. One of LO's strength's is that he is multi-dimensional scorer, so I give his overall scoring ability a 7.5.

Good find with miller, I forgot about him even though he's on my fantasy team. Ok, LO's is second among non-pg's, still pretty impressive.

I think he's second or 3rd option, depending on the team he's on. On this team, I can see him developing into a legitimate second option if they can gel together.


Dwayne Wade 6.8
Boris Diaw 6.0
Ricky Davis 5.7

I love lamar and i dont want to be a pain in the butt for you, but he's is 5th among non pg's.

Diaw has really impressed me. Plays every position for the suns. Even started some games at center
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:20 am    Post subject:

I think some of you have him rated too high on layups. If we're talking about a straight layup off a good pass or offensive rebound put back, fine, he doesn't miss those rarities.

But most of his layup attempts come off drives that he's made to the rim, quite artfully I might add. But then he gets to the rim and blows the shot. For every good one he makes, he's misses two or three gimmes.

He's actually one of the worst finishers at the rim I've ever seen for a guy of his size and ability. He is a powerful big guy and he needs to get tougher and nastier when he goes to that rim. He needs to start consistently, in the immortal words of Magic Johnson to Vlade Divac when he blew a cupcake in the waning moments of Game 6 of the 1991 WCF, "DUNK THAT M$^&%#@*^R!!!!"

The coaching staff needs to work very hard with him in this regard. There's no reason he can't improve.

As for the notion that he "is what he is", I would submit that his best season as a pro came with the Miami Heat when Pat Riley, one of the great coaches in the history of the sport, was his coach. Outside of that one season, the man has rarely been coached since he's been in the NBA. Well, now he has another of the great coaches to work with.

I probably won't feel the story is crystalized with Lamar until probably the end of next season. He's learning a new offense and Jackson needs time to do whatever it is he does to get into these guy's heads.

As he stands now, he's still a quality ballplayer who has upside. Just like with everything else, we have to be patient and give it time.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:53 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Dwayne Wade 6.8
Boris Diaw 6.0
Ricky Davis 5.7

I love lamar and i dont want to be a pain in the butt for you, but he's is 5th among non pg's.


That's why I used the term "non-guard" in my post, rather than "non-PG." A lot of guards play both roles. Wade, Diaw, and Davis play the PG role from time to time. Meanwhile, Odom is playing point forward, and some people on this board refer to him as our point guard. I just took the word "point" out of the equation.

Quote:
Diaw has really impressed me. Plays every position for the suns. Even started some games at center


No kidding. I expect that five years from now people will be pointing to the Joe Johnson trade as one of the most lopsided trades ever. The Suns picked up Diaw and two future first round draft picks, which means that they're positioned to build a team around Stoudemire as Nash gets old. Meanwhile, the Hawks get the privilege of paying max contract money to a good, but not great, swingman. Steve Belkin is going to look like a genius.

But that's getting off topic.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:30 pm    Post subject:

I felt it was necessary to bump. Seems like he has regressed in most areas
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Do me favor 1-10 rate these aspects of LO's game. It will benifit LG. It will lessen my LO posts

RB's - 10
15ft Shot - 5
Outside Shot - 4
Lay up - 8
Finishing off the And 1 - 6
Defense - 6
Brains - 6
Ability to play w/ Kobe - 9
Asst/TO ration - 7 (until recently)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject:

ZZZZZZzzzzzzz
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Do me favor 1-10 rate these aspects of LO's game. It will benifit LG. It will lessen my LO posts

bounty wrote:
hated posts. i just need to know if we are all seeing the same thing broken down. PLEASE not what you think it should/could be, what it is.

*RB's-10 (I did it for you), agree- for a facilitator
*15ft. Shot- 4 (open and contested)
*Outside Shot- 3 a "2" if you count clutch
*Lay up-4 a/c he doesn't have the right handed shot and the left handed shot when going to the right, and he isn't 100% perfect going left.
*Finishing off the "And 1"- 5 can't finish off what calls for the right hand
*Defense- 2
*Brains-2
*Ability to play with Kobe(right fit for the team) 3 cause he doesn't want to
*Asst/TO ratio- 5- average for this year- 1 for last 5 games cause I have to give him something and I have to be nice
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject:

RB's - 8
15ft Shot - 4
Outside Shot - 2
Lay up - 6
Finishing off the And1 - 3
Defense - 5
Brains - 0
Ability to play w/ Kobe - 1
Asst/TO ration - 6 (until recently)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:56 pm    Post subject:

What's funny, most of those ratings make him come off to be a very good player
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject:

This thread should be more about what we want out of LO, realistically ofcourse.

RB's - 10 (already there)
15ft shot - should be around 7 atleast.
Outside shot - stop taking so many. 5 is ok here.
Lay up - For his arm span and left handedness, I want a 8 here.
Finishing off And 1 - 4 to 5 will do.
Defense - I don't hope for too much. 5+ is ok.
Brains - it is what it is.

The rest I don't really care about, do those right and he'll be fine.

p.s Left Handedness is a Copy Right of Senator Kobe.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:06 pm    Post subject:

He deserves ALL TENS!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:22 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
What's funny, most of those ratings make him come off to be a very good player

Make him to be about average. Add 12mil, hes way below. What are your ratings?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject:

senator kobe wrote:
This thread should be more about what we want out of LO, realistically ofcourse.

RB's - 10 (already there)
15ft shot - should be around 7 atleast.
Outside shot - stop taking so many. 5 is ok here.
Lay up - For his arm span and left handedness, I want a 8 here.
Finishing off And 1 - 4 to 5 will do.
Defense - I don't hope for too much. 5+ is ok.
Brains - it is what it is.

The rest I don't really care about, do those right and he'll be fine.

p.s Left Handedness is a Copy Right of Senator Kobe.

Thats a fairytale then. Its about what he IS
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:27 pm    Post subject:

bounty wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
What's funny, most of those ratings make him come off to be a very good player

Make him to be about average. Add 12mil, hes way below. What are your ratings?


What for bounty? As I looked back on this thread you actually singled out one individual doing this and awarded him with praise just because he agreed with you!

You're not looking for a rating! You're just trying to build an alliance!
I can't believe you dug this back up!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:27 pm    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
What's funny, most of those ratings make him come off to be a very good player

Make him to be about average. Add 12mil, hes way below. What are your ratings?


What for bounty? As I looked back on this thread you actually singled out one individual doing this and awarded him with praise just because he agreed with you!

Your not looking for a rating! You're just trying to build an alliance!
I can't believe you dug this back up!

You have yet to participate. Why? You scared to actually agree
Have you not looked at responses. A Lot of 4's, 5's, 6's. RBs are pretty unanimous.
The reason it was "Dug" back up is to prove the point that LO struggling as of late has actually been since last year. his weaknesses have been since he was drafted
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Do me favor 1-10 rate these aspects of LO's game. It will benifit LG. It will lessen my LO posts

*RB's-10 (I did it for you)
*15ft. Shot- 6
*Outside Shot- 5
*Lay up- 7
*Finishing off the "And 1" 3
*Defense 3
*Brains 3
*Ability to play with Kobe(right fit for the team) 4
*Asst/TO ratio[/quote] 4
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:31 pm    Post subject:

bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
What's funny, most of those ratings make him come off to be a very good player

Make him to be about average. Add 12mil, hes way below. What are your ratings?


What for bounty? As I looked back on this thread you actually singled out one individual doing this and awarded him with praise just because he agreed with you!

Your not looking for a rating! You're just trying to build an alliance!
I can't believe you dug this back up!

You have yet to participate. Why? You scared to actually agree


Yeah right! NOt a chance... To participate in you madness would be to accept your premises that LO is useless... Now, really... Why would I or anybody who sees your obsession against LO as damned near personal get involved?
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