24 wrote:
stojan wrote:
depressing...... such a complete series, the time span allowed us to divulge into the characters personal lives and be able to see each part of the communities views throughout each season (as each one focused ona different part) .... just complete has to be right up the top with sopranos as best series' ever
I love the Sopranos. Truly great series. But once I saw the Wire, there was no comparison. That's how good the Wire is. It makes other great shows look as bad as they make bad shows look by comparison.
I would argue that stojan was, as Bubbles would say, equivocating like a mother (bleep).
okay okay you got me ill admit, freamon sways my vote, dam love that guy, has ot be best character on that so bar none
Well, that's another difference between that show and the Sopranos. Everyone is going to have their favorite characters, but if you ask people who the best performed, most valuable character in the Sopranos was, that's a short list. Ask Wire fans, and you'll get a huge list, because even minor characters were so central and well written/acted. If you watch the show again, pay attention to the small characters. They have backstories and complete, 3 dimensional natures. You have to look real hard to find a character thart is just there to advance the story. The Sopranos has great central characters, but tons of bit players you never care about, or even know much about. You know everybody in the Wire, and that, IMO, is its crowning achievement.
My personal list of the most important Wire characters, in no particular order:
McNulty- The conscience of the show in many ways, and also the object lesson that even the conscience is deeply flawed and can be its own worst enemy.
Omar- brilliant move to make a stone killer the moral center of the story. The only character who both has a moral code, and unfailingly follows it. His death is also the centerpiece of the entire message of the show, the randomness and ignominy of it all.
Stringer Bell- The "man without a country", symbolizing the fact that the worlds of the good guys and bad guys are defined by politics, but that they are no different in many ways.
Chris Partlow- the "gentle" killer who takes no pride or pleasure in what he does, but does it anyway, even trying to make the evil he must do humane for the victim. The only true emotional savagery he commits is against a child abuser he kills as a favor.
Bunk and Landsmen- no way a show like this resonates without counterbalancing the tragedy with a sense of humor, and these guys nail it.
Bubbles- The humanity of the show, in all its painful glory.
Freamon- represents both the good of the police, and the failure of the system.
Wow, I have to stop, because I have about 10 more on my list, and as I write one down, I think of 2 or 3 more...
That's exactly it. I mean, seriously, "The Wire" has at least 30 GREAT characters. Nothing ever like it. Not possible to have that many GREAT characters, but there it is and there it does. And line after line of impossible to forget dialogue. The series captures ALL of it, the good, the bad, the ugly, the profane, the glory, the compromise, It is simply the greatest show I have ever witnessed. For me, nothing even comes close. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
I just didn't like how Avon was totally cut out from everything after season 3, but I guess that's how it goes when you're in jail.
What season was your favorite? I don't know yet, but I think I'm leaning towards season 1, but really it's too hard to choose.
For me:
3
1
4
5
2
4, 3, 1, 2, 5
_________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
My favorite was season 3. Since season 1 I was rooting for *spoiler* to get killed and he finally got it at the end of the season.
At first I hated season 4 because of how little McNulty was in it but after viewing it a second time, it was more apparent that those kids put on better performances than most A-list actors.
Then comes 5, 2, 1.
I loved *spoiler* Such a unique character. Just business, just business.
Favorite characters:
1.) McNulty
2.) Omar
3.) Lester
4.) Bubbles
5.) The Bunk
6.) Prezbo
7.) Duquan (Dookie)
8.) Herc
9.) Cutty
10.) Levy
11.) Jay
BTW Remember little Wallace? ("Where the (bleep) is Wallace?!")
That scene alone should have won him an emmy. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
A subtle but powerful scene in the show: When Bunny Colvin took the 3 f-up class students to Ruth's Chris and the culture shock stole their excitement and their appetites.
And something probably nobody but me in the World noticed. When they were driving up, Bunny's radio in the car was playing Billie Holiday singing "I cover the Waterfront," a tune she wrote.
Billie is far and away my favorite singer of all time and she was from Baltimore. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
When I finished watching season 3, I didn't want to watch season 4 because I didn't think there was any way Television could ever be better than that. Then Season 4 came and blew season 3 out of the water.....
_________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
Avon is the most underrated character on the show with the possible exception of Lester Freeman who I have only behind Omar on the list. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
My fave show ever. Hard for me to re-watch though but I plan on doing so one of these days. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
The more I think about my list, the more I realize that this isn't a top 3 show for me anymore; it's my #1. Although I think this and Breaking Bad will always switch places as 1 and 2 for me.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:31 am Post subject:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
C M B wrote:
akk7 wrote:
C M B wrote:
My favorite was season 3. Since season 1 I was rooting for *spoiler* to get killed and he finally got it at the end of the season.
At first I hated season 4 because of how little McNulty was in it but after viewing it a second time, it was more apparent that those kids put on better performances than most A-list actors.
Then comes 5, 2, 1.
I loved *spoiler* Such a unique character. Just business, just business.
Favorite characters:
1.) McNulty
2.) Omar
3.) Lester
4.) Bubbles
5.) The Bunk
6.) Prezbo
7.) Duquan (Dookie)
8.) Herc
9.) Cutty
10.) Levy
11.) Jay
BTW Remember little Wallace? ("Where the (bleep) is Wallace?!")
I love all the "main" guys, but it is the smaller characters that really get me:
Bodie (More than McNulty, he's the true protagonist in a lot of ways, as his arc essentially follows that of the show, or vice versa)
Snoop & Chris (two of the more terrifying villains in all of TV or movies, Snoop for her matter of fact amorality and Chris for his almost gentle way of dispatching those who have to go)
Kima (along with Omar the show's moral center--which is very cool since both are black and gay)
Michael (the heartbreak of reality)
Sydnor (rock solid straight man for the tragicomedy going on around him)
Carver (really love his arc and his flaws, very humanized, sort of the flip side to Bodie) _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
My favorite was season 3. Since season 1 I was rooting for *spoiler* to get killed and he finally got it at the end of the season.
At first I hated season 4 because of how little McNulty was in it but after viewing it a second time, it was more apparent that those kids put on better performances than most A-list actors.
Then comes 5, 2, 1.
I loved *spoiler* Such a unique character. Just business, just business.
Favorite characters:
1.) McNulty
2.) Omar
3.) Lester
4.) Bubbles
5.) The Bunk
6.) Prezbo
7.) Duquan (Dookie)
8.) Herc
9.) Cutty
10.) Levy
11.) Jay
BTW Remember little Wallace? ("Where the (bleep) is Wallace?!")
I love all the "main" guys, but it is the smaller characters that really get me:
Bodie (More than McNulty, he's the true protagonist in a lot of ways, as his arc essentially follows that of the show, or vice versa)
Snoop & Chris (two of the more terrifying villains in all of TV or movies, Snoop for her matter of fact amorality and Chris for his almost gentle way of dispatching those who have to go)
Kima (along with Omar the show's moral center--which is very cool since both are black and gay)
Michael (the heartbreak of reality)
Sydnor (rock solid straight man for the tragicomedy going on around him)
Carver (really love his arc and his flaws, very humanized, sort of the flip side
to Bodie)
Nice breakdown. And yet, you could take several names and replace them as the vehicles of the show. That's what's so amazing. A character like Bodie, takes a few minutes before he comes up. Yet, as you say, could really be the very personification of the arc of the show. I often use him as an example of why the show is so amazing. When he was introduced, you really did hate him. And yet by his final episode, you loved and admired him. Now he did grow, as one would expect given his age, but ultimately, you grew to love him and cried when he died not because he changed, but because events unfolded that revealed who he really was, all of it. You weren't manipulated into loving him ala Steven Spielberg, the story was so masterful and the writing, directing and most of all the acting just humanized every single character in that show. There were no filler characters except for perhaps some of the news big wigs in season 5. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Michael (the heartbreak of reality)
Yeah that character kind encapsulated the tragedy of it all, as well as the "cycle."
Even more than Michael, I think Randy was the most tragic.
Randy was always weak, and always bound to be used. Michael is strong, and has the opportunity to escape, but in the end, the game is the game. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
My favorite was season 3. Since season 1 I was rooting for *spoiler* to get killed and he finally got it at the end of the season.
At first I hated season 4 because of how little McNulty was in it but after viewing it a second time, it was more apparent that those kids put on better performances than most A-list actors.
Then comes 5, 2, 1.
I loved *spoiler* Such a unique character. Just business, just business.
Favorite characters:
1.) McNulty
2.) Omar
3.) Lester
4.) Bubbles
5.) The Bunk
6.) Prezbo
7.) Duquan (Dookie)
8.) Herc
9.) Cutty
10.) Levy
11.) Jay
BTW Remember little Wallace? ("Where the (bleep) is Wallace?!")
I love all the "main" guys, but it is the smaller characters that really get me:
Bodie (More than McNulty, he's the true protagonist in a lot of ways, as his arc essentially follows that of the show, or vice versa)
Snoop & Chris (two of the more terrifying villains in all of TV or movies, Snoop for her matter of fact amorality and Chris for his almost gentle way of dispatching those who have to go)
Kima (along with Omar the show's moral center--which is very cool since both are black and gay)
Michael (the heartbreak of reality)
Sydnor (rock solid straight man for the tragicomedy going on around him)
Carver (really love his arc and his flaws, very humanized, sort of the flip side
to Bodie)
Nice breakdown. And yet, you could take several names and replace them as the vehicles of the show. That's what's so amazing. A character like Bodie, takes a few minutes before he comes up. Yet, as you say, could really be the very personification of the arc of the show. I often use him as an example of why the show is so amazing. When he was introduced, you really did hate him. And yet by his final episode, you loved and admired him. Now he did grow, as one would expect given his age, but ultimately, you grew to love him and cried when he died not because he changed, but because events unfolded that revealed who he really was, all of it. You weren't manipulated into loving him ala Steven Spielberg, the story was so masterful and the writing, directing and most of all the acting just humanized every single character in that show. There were no filler characters except for perhaps some of the news big wigs in season 5.
Even though most people overlook Season 2, it had one of the best characters on the show in Frank Sobotka. Loyal to a fault, blue-collar, did anything and everything to make life better for his people. And to think, a stained-glass window painting was eventually what did him in.
There was a recurring theme in the show, basically along the lines of "snitches get stitches". Anyone who informed to the police ended up dead or worse. William Gant (the maintenance guy who was an eye witness to a D'Angelo murder), Frank Sobotka, Orlando the strip club owner, D'Angelo, Stringer Bell, Bodie, Omar to an extent (but his death wasn't connected to his informing). And Randy was a snitch and had his life turned upside down. Now I know why Carmelo (who grew up in Baltimore) came out with that DVD a few years ago, stop snitchin'!
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17249 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:11 pm Post subject:
Ted wrote:
Even though most people overlook Season 2, it had one of the best characters on the show in Frank Sobotka. Loyal to a fault, blue-collar, did anything and everything to make life better for his people. And to think, a stained-glass window painting was eventually what did him in.
There was a recurring theme in the show, basically along the lines of "snitches get stitches". Anyone who informed to the police ended up dead or worse. William Gant (the maintenance guy who was an eye witness to a D'Angelo murder), Frank Sobotka, Orlando the strip club owner, D'Angelo, Stringer Bell, Bodie, Omar to an extent (but his death wasn't connected to his informing). And Randy was a snitch and had his life turned upside down. Now I know why Carmelo (who grew up in Baltimore) came out with that DVD a few years ago, stop snitchin'!
Frank is definitely one of the best characters in the show. I love his quote in the scene near the end of the season that went something like "the problem is we used to build (bleep) in this country, now we just put our hand in the next guy's pocket." Yeah, it was anything but subtle, but it was oh so true.
Another one of my favorite characters is Slim Charles. The guy goes from being regular muscle to running the whole connection. Guy played the game to perfection ... definitely one of the "smart pawns who became queen" as D'Angelo said in Season 1.
Even though most people overlook Season 2, it had one of the best characters on the show in Frank Sobotka. Loyal to a fault, blue-collar, did anything and everything to make life better for his people. And to think, a stained-glass window painting was eventually what did him in.
There was a recurring theme in the show, basically along the lines of "snitches get stitches". Anyone who informed to the police ended up dead or worse. William Gant (the maintenance guy who was an eye witness to a D'Angelo murder), Frank Sobotka, Orlando the strip club owner, D'Angelo, Stringer Bell, Bodie, Omar to an extent (but his death wasn't connected to his informing). And Randy was a snitch and had his life turned upside down. Now I know why Carmelo (who grew up in Baltimore) came out with that DVD a few years ago, stop snitchin'!
Frank is definitely one of the best characters in the show. I love his quote in the scene near the end of the season that went something like "the problem is we used to build (bleep) in this country, now we just put our hand in the next guy's pocket." Yeah, it was anything but subtle, but it was oh so true.
Another one of my favorite characters is Slim Charles. The guy goes from being regular muscle to running the whole connection. Guy played the game to perfection ... definitely one of the "smart pawns who became queen" as D'Angelo said in Season 1.
_________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject:
I always found season two to be highly underrated by most. It is a vital part of telling the decay of Baltimore, and society at large, and the rest of the story does not hold up without it. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
I always found season two to be highly underrated by most. It is a vital part of telling the decay of Baltimore, and society at large, and the rest of the story does not hold up without it.
It's problem is that it faces the other seasons and characters as competition. If it were a stand alone series season, it would be hailed. But as mentioned previously, it's most compelling character was Frank Sabotka and he wasn't as compelling as 20 or so other characters on the show.
Still, within the story arc and the ultimate goal of the show, it was as essential as any of the other seasons. But it didn't have anywhere near the incredible moments as the other seasons. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
The Wire is so good. I honestly have it as my second favorite all time TV series behind Breaking Bad.
I need to watch BB. Gonna find the time one day. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject:
LakerLanny wrote:
The Wire is so good. I honestly have it as my second favorite all time TV series behind Breaking Bad.
Breaking bad is very good, but it doesn't even aspire to the literary heights of The Wire, much less hit them. If the wire is Kobe, breaking bad is ray Allen. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
The Wire is so good. I honestly have it as my second favorite all time TV series behind Breaking Bad.
I need to watch BB. Gonna find the time one day.
My advice is do it so you have access to all the episodes and can watch them when you want. It is so good, I know you will like it if you like The Wire even though it is a totally different concept and style.
The Wire is still so underrated though, it was an epic TV show. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
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