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Mayweather on Lin: "All the hype is because he's Asian"
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C M B
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:04 am Post subject:

composite wrote:

C M B wrote:

Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:

Just wanted to let you guys all know that I just got back from a Japanese steak house, so I think I can safely speak for all Asian's and say that if Lin was not Asian he would still be a remarkable story.

I think it's stupid that people latch onto prominent/successful figures the minute they see something that they think they have in common with that person. Like how Filipino Pacquiao fans say "I'm so proud to be Filipino!"

So, really, don't try latch onto anyone that's successful and say "Hey, look! He's like me!" No. He's not.

Couldn't agree more. Or, like how so many of my African-American friends are Obama fans and say "I'm so proud to be black!!"

Like you said, they shouldn't just latch onto someone successful, and say "Hey, look! He's like me!" No. He's not.

They should just realize they'll never become President just b/c one black man did.

Whether or not you're being sarcastic, you're right.
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Supa
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:08 am Post subject:

cinimod wrote:

Come on now. Of course his being Asian is a HUGE part of the hype.

If he was black (or white for that matter):

Would we have a thread on him? Absolutely!
Would he lead ESPN’s basketball segment? Yep!
NBA Gametime? Sure!
Would he be the talk of sports bars and barber shops across America by knowledgeable fans? No doubt!
Would he be a national news (not sports) story? No.
Would he even lead a local sports broadcast other than his own? I doubt it.
Would he be featured in Time Magazine? No.
CNN? The Jewish Journal for god’s sake? Get real.
Would I have the little Asian lady down the hall telling me “What do you think of Lin. From New York. He makes 38 times against the Lakers.”

This kid is a marketing dream come friggen true.

This. Being Asian American doesn't create all the sports hype he's getting. His incredible play and underdog story does that. But, being Asian American is the reason his story is transcending sports.

Like the article mentioned, look at Tiger and the Williams sisters. Being black and succeeding in a predominantly white sport makes the story that much greater and transcends the sport.

Supa
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:20 am Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

I think race plays a role but it's not the major role. I think being in NY and getting hyped beyond measure by their media plays the major role. Didn't we see this exact same thing in 2003 with Flip Murray (came out of nowhere, ballin)? Go look at his 1st ten games that season subbing for Ray Allen. Vernon Maxwell came out of nowhere and helped us win a title.

Great example. Ronald Murray was drafted by Milwaukee in the 2nd round (41st pick). I don't know his whole story, but it looks like he played very little his first year, and statistically looked like a bust. He was traded to Seattle as part of the package for the Gary Payton/Ray Allen swap. Then his second season Ray Allen gets injured (I think during the preseason?) and Ronald Murray gets the start. He's suddenly balling like a seasoned pro.

Looking at the game log his first six games the Sonics go 5-1 and he's scoring 24,22,24,24,29, and 20 PTS (getting some decent AST & REB too). I remember it was being talked about in NBA circles, but did anybody else really care? Nah. How many actually remember this guy?

Of course there's a big difference between Seattle and New York. The New York media is crazy. And, the Knicks have been sucking for so long and looking for a savior. There are so many facets to the story. But, it still would not nearly be the same story had it been Ronald Murray doing this for the Knicks.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ronald_murray/career_stats.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murraro01/gamelog/2004/

LakerJosh
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:51 am Post subject:

superboy wrote:

Look...none of us WANT this to be about race. But it is. Deal with it. And stop lying to yourself.

Again, the dispute is not that his race has nothing to do with the story. What I and others have been disputing is that it IS the story. What some posters presume is asinine. 90% of the story is just ridiculous.

I am bringing up Jackie in this particular topic because it was based off of a guy who made remarks about race. Now to illustrate a point where I disagree with some posters I have used a similar (albiet without the horrible amount of racism at that time) situation.

LakerJosh
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:53 am Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

IBTL I wonder how many here know who Earl Lloyd is and what he meant to basketball? He was Black but not a great player, he was just the first African American to play in the NBA.

Exactly. We hardly know who he is. At the end of the day, if you don't perform, you will be a footnote and have no hype/legacy. Regardless of race.

Race is what is putting this story over the edge, and what is galvanizing Asian Americans, but it's his play, ability and story that put it close to the edge.

LakerJosh
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:04 am Post subject:

superboy wrote:

I read it. I disagree. I think it's much more about race than any other story angle such as going to Harvard, his upbringing, etc. All the players have some kind of interesting story. Trying to make the point that his story is singular and that's the majority of the reason for the hype doesn't work for me. I can pick any player and find out details about his story that makes him exactly unique...and I can ask the same "PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NAME ..." question.

Again, I am not disputing the fact that it plays a factor. It absolutely does. Nor am I saying it's all story. I said it is 3 things before his ethnicity. Ability, stats, wins. Then story. Then Asain. The guy has been straight balling. You still didn't answer the question, because there is no answer. That is one point you aren't understanding. His ability, stats, wins, and how well he is playing have nothing to do with his race.

I already said lots of guys have interesting stories, but none this good in terms of coming out of nowhere and then balling like this. Name one. On top of that NY, modern media and internet, and the Knicks record before he came along.

superboy wrote:

When it's all said and done, Lin is primarily going to be known as the first professional Chinese point guard in the NBA. Why there is anything negative associated with this, I have no idea. Race makes people nervous, so what? We all deal with it every day. You're like the guy who looks at someone who's black or white and says "I don't see race". What does that mean? Like, you can't see that he's a different color than you? If I see a black man, I'm aware that this is a black person. So what? When I see a tall man, I'm aware the person is tall. So what? When I see someone without a mustache, I'm aware that he doesn't have a mustache. So what? But if someone comes up to me and says "Did you notice he doesn't have a mustache?" I wouldn't say "Oh wow...I didn't even notice." That would be a lie.

I don't see anything wrong with noting his race, but that isn't what we are talking about here. What we are talking about is attributing his hype as based on 90% of his race. That is an insult to Lin and what he has been doing. You are basically discounting what he has done, which has been historic on many levels. That being said, his race is a factor, and I see no reason not to mention it or to recognize that it's a cool thing for Asian Americans.

superboy wrote:

So if you ask me, is Lin's hype mostly about being Chinese, I would say of course! So what? I know it, my Chinese friends knows it, pnp knows it, his Chinese friends know it. It's like you have some kind of internal brain struggle going on where your brain is trying to reduce the significance of the Chinese angle and lower it to be the same as the unique number of brothers and sisters he has...so you can say, "it's really not about race".

Again, you use absolutes. There are no absolutes. Race plays a factor and almost everybody would agree. Does his race personally factor into my liking of him? Nope. I hope you realize that some are capable are looking beyond race.

Sure we notice it, but noticing race or height or attributes is completely different then revering somebody or hating somebody because of race. It's completely different than judging somebodies hype based on race.

Last edited by LakerJosh on Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total

LakerJosh
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:06 am Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:

Are people really missing the reason why he's getting hyped? Chinese Americans, like myself, love him because he's a Chinese American doing well in the NBA, true, but we compose a small minority of the people getting hyped by this guy. The real reason why he's getting hyped by everyone and their mother is because he's doing this on the KNICKS. A team that was supposed to be a super power in the East with Stoudemire and the acquisition of Carmelo Anthony, and then proceeded to fall flat on its face and go 8-15 in their first 23 games heading straight for the lottery. He gets playing time out of pure desperation from D'Antoni against the Nets and he leads the Knicks to victory. Amare and Stoudemire both proceed to miss the next 5 or so games and Lin leads the superstarless Knicks, biggest market in the league, to 6 straight victories.

A complete unknown guy, cut from 2 teams, acquired by a 3rd whose head coach was heard musing that Lin was a waste of a spot and would never get time, was about to get cut again before the coach gave him a shot and he just blew up, saving the season of the supposed power house Knicks. The fact that he's a Chinese American (or Taiwanese American if you want to get picky) is what gets us Chinese Americans hyped, but the rest of the story is what is getting everyone else (and the VAST MAJORITY of NBA fans are not Chinese American or Asian American) hyped and worked up about the kid. Everyone loves an underdog story, and he's been an underdog basically his entire career. He's a great story.

Bingo.

LakerJosh
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:10 am Post subject:

superboy wrote:

Trey wrote:

EASY QUESTION to end all this BS

If he was african american or w/e..

Is he playing really good basketball for a 2nd year player?

PER 24.67 -- above Kobe

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics

I don't think anybody is claiming that he's not playing some good basketball. It's not like they're exclusive things. You can play good basketball and be first Chinese NBA pg. But without the Chinese part, this thread wouldn't be this long.

This is the exact same thing we went through with jason williams...jayson?? I don't remember...white chocolate, whichever that one was.

I think it's disingenuous to use that as a point.

That being said it means little. Tebow was white and his threads were just as long on other boards I attend.

The reason we are in this thread is because some people are putting TOO MUCH emphasis on his race, and I believe people who disagree need to say something about it. I'm not here because the dude is asian. If you were saying the same things about somebody being purple, coming from mars, I would be here because I am arguing based on principle not on color.

LakerJosh
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:24 am Post subject:

Supa wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

That was such a different era in terms of media that it's almost impossible to compare.

ringThingDoUrThiNg
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:13 am Post subject:

I think Lin is the real deal. What I dont get is how he is attributed this magical high bball iq because he's playing well. that's one thing you don't see being said about your average player when they have a hot streak. i think he relies on athleticism and skill just as any other player.

thurloly
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 am Post subject:

You know what makes me Linsanity? 3 things: 1) He can put up allstar numbers at the cost of 800k 2) His story is a pleasant, full of surprise story 3) He is a hard-working, honest, and good man The price they paid and the production they got is amazing.

thurloly
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:23 am Post subject:

composite wrote:

C M B wrote:

Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:

I wholeheartedly disagree.

People don't see themselves in Obama. Does that mean they stop support him?

Fans don't see themselves in the idols or teams they support. Does that stop them from loving the idols and teams?

You think that all the people who support Lin can't realize anything that only you can realize it?

Second thing, sometimes the story makes you see yourself in it. I believe there are quite a few other Asian players who are good but ignored because of their race. I find Lin's success is something to cheer about.

The underdog, unformulated-but-later-found-success story we heard every times. It makes us have faith, believe, never stop doing what we love.

Yes, we all see ourselves in it.

Mark_in_Tulsa
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:56 am Post subject:

superboy wrote:

Look...none of us WANT this to be about race. But it is. Deal with it. And stop lying to yourself.

If non of us want it to be about race, then it isn't about race. The only reason race is being brought up about it, is because a couple of you do want it to be about race.
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LakerJosh
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:43 am Post subject:

ringThingDoUrThiNg wrote:

I think Lin is the real deal. What I dont get is how he is attributed this magical high bball iq because he's playing well. that's one thing you don't see being said about your average player when they have a hot streak. i think he relies on athleticism and skill just as any other player.

I agree with that to a certain extent. Court vision is excellent, and smarts come into play with how he is finding guys in the right spots. His athleticism has come into play with his quick first step, crossover, and he's got decent leaping ability too. I've seen worse.

ringThingDoUrThiNg
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:03 am Post subject:

LakerJosh wrote:

ringThingDoUrThiNg wrote:

-but you know what i mean right? why do some pGs have a "knack" for finding players, while others are good because theyre just smart. I keep hearing people rave about his IQ ( im sure he IS smart) , but i just dont see it being as pronounced on the court. at least compared to other adequate PG. Why wasn't Rondo as anointed with gifted bball IQ when he came from no where?

or maybe its just because he's a Harvard graduate, is why they like to emphasize how smart he is on the court....

jodeke
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:18 am Post subject:

postandpivot wrote

Quote:

dont use the words "you're playing the race card" in this topic. you're using it out of context.

Let me give some examples as why I mentioned the race card.

Quote:

i'll ask these simple questions again. answer them honestly. and remember i used to play with a TON of asian ballers, where i always wondered why i never saw any in the nba or balling like crazy in college. it never made sense to me.

Quote:

they are ASIAN meaning their parents a lot of times are not supporting their hoop dreams like a black kid or white kids family might.

Quote:

i didnt say i know millions. i've actually grown up with a ton of asian peopel. befriended them. koreans, chinese, filipinos etc. everyone who had something to say about lin that was an asian friend or co-worker or even aquaintance.

Quote:

i went to the summer league to see the guy play. just because he was ASIAN. not because he was good. i didnt even know how good he was. i wanted to see an ASIAN guy make it. and beat all the odds. and i'm black like big mouth mayweather.
so sorry, ASIAN came first.

I could insert more but hopefully these will impress my intent. You say don't use race card in the thread yet all your posts are intended to show the reason Lin is being hyped is because he's ASIAN.

Your refusal to acknowledge his balling is as much and to some more the reason for the attention he's getting is based mostly on his ancestery.

I don't see you shedding your position so I'll render this inking as my last in the debate.

By the By, I'm Black and understand your reasoning. Let me inject.

If you allow race to be the reason for being or not being successful you're shorting yourself. I know prejudice is a faction of our society but it's just a barrier to build strength. What doesn't kill you will only make you stronger.

Floyd's a great fighter, he should leave it there. Manny's a politician, chosen by his people. I KNOW, and I'm not usually this demonstrative, Floyd will NEVER be elected by his.

With this P&P I bid you adieu.
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Last edited by jodeke on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

LakerJosh
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:04 pm Post subject:

ringThingDoUrThiNg wrote:

LakerJosh wrote:

ringThingDoUrThiNg wrote:

I disagree about the smarts. Clearly he is a smart player. Sure he's got athleticism, but Rondo is one of the most gifted athletes in the league. He has more to work with.

They are both smart players, but I would argue that Lin already has a superior shot and motion, better footwork, and a fantastic vision and IQ. His problems are mainly inexperience. He tends to dribble into bodies, and turn the ball over. The other thing is that Rondo early on could pass off to some of the best players in the L.

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Rondo is smarter than he gets credit for and Lin is probably not some basketball god of the Larry Bird school. Anybody who goes to Harvard and gets a 4.0 is pretty damn smart or an extremely hard worker at the very least.

Supa
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject:

Just FYI. He got a 3.1 GPA at Harvard in Economics. The 4 point was in high school, and that was a 4.2 GPA. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-jeremy-lin-a-stereotype-that-should-be-celebrated/2012/02/15/gIQAEynYHR_story.html

jim93
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject:

Supa wrote:

Just FYI. He got a 3.1 GPA at Harvard in Economics. The 4 point was in high school, and that was a 4.2 GPA.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-jeremy-lin-a-stereotype-that-should-be-celebrated/2012/02/15/gIQAEynYHR_story.html

A 3.1 in an Ivy League School thats not Cornell.

jodeke
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:19 pm Post subject:

Knicks lost tonight 85 - 89. I wonder how the media will spin this? Lin didn't play that bad. 40 min 8-18 26 PTS 5 AST 4 STL the bad was 9 TO. Magic commented on ESPN he has to learn to play with help. He said he tried to take over instead of trusting Stoudemire. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

Trey
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject:

It is great that he lost.. because he will step back and improve even more Like the great Phil Jackson said its the only time he can actually teach.. .is after a loss

lakersken80
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject:

Linsanity is over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LakerJosh
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:30 pm Post subject:

Supa wrote:

My bad. Either way, it's still pretty impressive when you are on the Bball team.

Dreamshake
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:30 pm Post subject:

LakerJosh wrote:

Supa wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

That was such a different era in terms of media that it's almost impossible to compare.

Even if it were today I'm sure the story wouldn't be as big for a black player on a non-historical franchise/media hub.

Dreamshake
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

Knicks lost tonight 85 - 89. I wonder how the media will spin this?
Lin didn't play that bad. 40 min 8-18 26 PTS 5 AST 4 STL the bad was 9 TO.

Magic commented on ESPN he has to learn to play with help. He said he tried to take over instead of trusting Stoudemire.

If Russell Westbrook had a 9 turnover game in a loss, against the Hornets at that, would you say he didn't play that bad? That's bad for a PG. Very bad. For all the positives he's getting like 6-7 turnovers a game during this winning streak. You can get away with that against the likes of the Kings, Raptors, etc.

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