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| Would you be willing to give up Kwame Brown and Chris Mihm for Artest? |
| Yes |
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17% |
[ 24 ] |
| No |
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69% |
[ 94 ] |
| Yes, provided they pick up a free agent center from the list |
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13% |
[ 18 ] |
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| Total Votes : 136 |
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Sister Golden Hair
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 15872
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 Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Shapecity wrote: | Absolutely I do this trade. Artest for Mihm & Brown is a steal for the Lakers. I like the progress both have made, but their production can be replaced by the free agents Mike listed. Plus there's a chance Turiaf comes back this season.
The foundation of Kobe-Odom-Artest is something the ownership can build around to get us back in Championship contention. |
Yeah. Right. Two young, athletic seven-footers are so easy to replace.
SGH |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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^ Yes, it's pretty damn easy to replace Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown. Where have you been the last half decade?
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Shapecity
Starting Rotation
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | Absolutely I do this trade. Artest for Mihm & Brown is a steal for the Lakers. I like the progress both have made, but their production can be replaced by the free agents Mike listed. Plus there's a chance Turiaf comes back this season.
The foundation of Kobe-Odom-Artest is something the ownership can build around to get us back in Championship contention. |
Yeah. Right. Two young, athletic seven-footers are so easy to replace.
SGH |
Young athletic 7-footers don't win titles. You need physical bigmen to anchor your defense in the post season. |
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Charles
Star Player
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 4525
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Shapecity wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | Absolutely I do this trade. Artest for Mihm & Brown is a steal for the Lakers. I like the progress both have made, but their production can be replaced by the free agents Mike listed. Plus there's a chance Turiaf comes back this season.
The foundation of Kobe-Odom-Artest is something the ownership can build around to get us back in Championship contention. |
Yeah. Right. Two young, athletic seven-footers are so easy to replace.
SGH |
Young athletic 7-footers don't win titles. You need physical bigmen to anchor your defense in the post season. |
Great, let's pick up some defensive anchors off the waiver wire. |
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thegreatest
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 9911
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Shapecity wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | Absolutely I do this trade. Artest for Mihm & Brown is a steal for the Lakers. I like the progress both have made, but their production can be replaced by the free agents Mike listed. Plus there's a chance Turiaf comes back this season.
The foundation of Kobe-Odom-Artest is something the ownership can build around to get us back in Championship contention. |
Yeah. Right. Two young, athletic seven-footers are so easy to replace.
SGH |
Young athletic 7-footers don't win titles. You need physical bigmen to anchor your defense in the post season. |
i wouldn't call longley a physical bigman |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Charles wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | Absolutely I do this trade. Artest for Mihm & Brown is a steal for the Lakers. I like the progress both have made, but their production can be replaced by the free agents Mike listed. Plus there's a chance Turiaf comes back this season.
The foundation of Kobe-Odom-Artest is something the ownership can build around to get us back in Championship contention. |
Yeah. Right. Two young, athletic seven-footers are so easy to replace.
SGH |
Young athletic 7-footers don't win titles. You need physical bigmen to anchor your defense in the post season. |
Great, let's pick up some defensive anchors off the waiver wire. |
You can't. On the other hand, if you can pick up a former DPOY for two 7-footers that have never done anything of note in their careers, you'd be crazier than Artest not to do it.
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Sister Golden Hair
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 15872
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Charles wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | Absolutely I do this trade. Artest for Mihm & Brown is a steal for the Lakers. I like the progress both have made, but their production can be replaced by the free agents Mike listed. Plus there's a chance Turiaf comes back this season.
The foundation of Kobe-Odom-Artest is something the ownership can build around to get us back in Championship contention. |
Yeah. Right. Two young, athletic seven-footers are so easy to replace.
SGH |
Young athletic 7-footers don't win titles. You need physical bigmen to anchor your defense in the post season. |
Great, let's pick up some defensive anchors off the waiver wire. |
So true.
SGH |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| thegreatest wrote: | | i wouldn't call longley a physical bigman |
I don't know of very many teams that have high impact players like Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Dennis Rodman.
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thegreatest
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 9911
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| KA_2 wrote: | | Charles wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | Absolutely I do this trade. Artest for Mihm & Brown is a steal for the Lakers. I like the progress both have made, but their production can be replaced by the free agents Mike listed. Plus there's a chance Turiaf comes back this season.
The foundation of Kobe-Odom-Artest is something the ownership can build around to get us back in Championship contention. |
Yeah. Right. Two young, athletic seven-footers are so easy to replace.
SGH |
Young athletic 7-footers don't win titles. You need physical bigmen to anchor your defense in the post season. |
Great, let's pick up some defensive anchors off the waiver wire. |
You can't. On the other hand, if you can pick up a former DPOY for two 7-footers that have never done anything of note in their careers, you'd be crazier than Artest not to do it. |
if you can put that into the equation and not consider the issues he has, then..
also with your train of thought you would trade bynum for artest as well. |
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lakerbadger
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1705
Location: New York, New York
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:01 am Post subject: |
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In a heartbeat. Sure we'll be a donut, but it's a smaller hole to fill. Phil can turn any bigmen into something serviceable. Imagine the triangle run with
PG - Vujacic/Parker
SG - Kobe/Profit
SF - Artest/Walton/George
PF - Odom/Cook
C - ANY Free Agent Center/Bynum
If Phil can get productivity out of the likes of wennington and purdue, the can get it out of just about any 12th man center in the league. Whereas a guy like artest is not easy to find.
I don't like losing 2 decent centers, but we need to go for the best player at this point. For Artest, I would do it in a heartbeat. |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| thegreatest wrote: | | if you can put that into the equation and not consider the issues he has, then.. |
Say what?
| Quote: | | also with your train of thought you would trade bynum for artest as well. |
You'd be stupid not to.
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Sister Golden Hair
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 15872
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| KA_2 wrote: | | Charles wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | Absolutely I do this trade. Artest for Mihm & Brown is a steal for the Lakers. I like the progress both have made, but their production can be replaced by the free agents Mike listed. Plus there's a chance Turiaf comes back this season.
The foundation of Kobe-Odom-Artest is something the ownership can build around to get us back in Championship contention. |
Yeah. Right. Two young, athletic seven-footers are so easy to replace.
SGH |
Young athletic 7-footers don't win titles. You need physical bigmen to anchor your defense in the post season. |
Great, let's pick up some defensive anchors off the waiver wire. |
You can't. On the other hand, if you can pick up a former DPOY for two 7-footers that have never done anything of note in their careers, you'd be crazier than Artest not to do it. |
Oh, you mean the same former DPOY who melts down each year in the play-offs, and when not melting down in the play-off scuttles his team's seasons by losing all control and attacking fans? That former DPOY? The one whose stated desire is to return to NY to play for the Knicks? The one who wanted to take some time off early last season in order to focus on his burgeoning record-producer career? The one who claims that his coach doesn't like him and limits his touches even though, iirc, the former DPOY leads his team in minutes played and (possibly even) points scored?
The same former DPOY whose team stuck by him after he trashed their season, whose teammates went to war (literally) to cover his back, and whom he now is abandoning with ... abandon?
BTW, aside from winning that DPOY award (which is one of those truly subjective (read: worthless and arbitrary) awards, what has Ron-Ron accomplished that balances out getting suspended for an entire season and destroying his team's chance at a ring? Maybe... melting down in the play-offs against those same Pistons in the fourth quarter costing his team a chance to advance. Oh, wait he did that. Maybe getting suspended for multiple flgrant fouls? oh, wait. He did that, too. Hmm. You're right. Ron-Ron is above reproach.
SGH
SGH
Last edited by Sister Golden Hair on Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thegreatest
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 9911
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| KA_2 wrote: | | thegreatest wrote: | | i wouldn't call longley a physical bigman |
I don't know of very many teams that have high impact players like Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Dennis Rodman. |
and?? |
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thegreatest
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 9911
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| KA_2 wrote: | | thegreatest wrote: | | if you can put that into the equation and not consider the issues he has, then.. |
Say what?
| Quote: | | also with your train of thought you would trade bynum for artest as well. |
You'd be stupid not to. |
in the first quote i was pointing out that you can't just say that he was a DPOY and not include the bad stuff he comes with, it would be stupid to do so, i thought you would be able to see the point i was making with me not having to sya it..
i agree with mike, you don't trade bynum for artest.
Last edited by thegreatest on Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LakerLogic
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| One thing we have to consider, we might not need that much interior D. Our perimeter D would be that good. |
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fansincemagic
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 11051
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:09 am Post subject: |
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I don't know why Indy would do it, but if you're willing to give up both bigs, why not package another player or two to try and get Jeff Foster? If the Lakers can end up with Kobe, Artest, Odom, Foster and Bynum on the same team I wouldn't miss Mihm/Brown. If you could make another deal to pickup an aging veteran center behind Foster to spilt some minutes with Bynum, I'm all for it. If you're telling me that no deal can be worked out and you're left with say Bynum and nobody.........no deal.
Sidenote: I just flipped through and saw that Rodman movie with Jean Claude Van Dam, starting to rethink the Artest deal now. |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | Oh, you mean the same former DPOY who melts down each year in the play-offs, and when not melting down in the play-off scuttles his team's seasons by losing all control and attacking fans? |
Losing all control? Artest did this once, last season, when he went into the stands. The previous season he helped the Pacers win 60+ games and reach the ECF with Jermaine O'Neal and garbage. I'd say he's a pretty high impact player, regardless of one incident.
| Quote: | | That former DPOY? The one whose stated desire is to return to NY to play for the Knicks? |
Artest says a lot of stupid things. Like Shaquille O'Neal for example, who once raised his hand during a players meeting asking who was a member of the Dallas Mavericks during the summer he was traded. If he was serious, then obviously you don't trade for Artest unless you can get him for absolute scrubs.
| Quote: | | The one who wanted to take some time off early last season in order to focus on his burgeoning record-producer career? The one who claims that his coach doesn't like him and limits his touches even though, iirc, the former DPOY leads his team in minutes played and (possibly even) points scored? |
Shaq has said similar idiotic things. He also healed his toe on company time. I don't know about you, but I'd like to have a center who Shaq's impact on the team. FYI.
| Quote: | | The same former DPOY whose team stuck by him after he trashed their season, whose teammates went to war (literally) to cover his back, and whom he now is abandoning with ... abandon? |
Who knows what the real story is, certainly not you and certainly not me. We'll see in the coming months.
| Quote: | | BTW, aside from winning that DPOY award (which is one of those truly subjective (read: worthless and arbitrary) awards, |
Yeah, Ron Artest isn't a DPOY type of player, good call.
| Quote: | | what has Ron-Ron accomplished trhat balances out getting suspended for en entire season and destroying his team's chance at a ring? |
The Pacers weren't good enough to win a ring. They lost to the team that eventually won the title. Hard to fault Artest for that.
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Sister Golden Hair
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 15872
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | One thing we have to consider, we might not need that much interior D. Our perimeter D would be that good. |
That's not quite right. For young thing, Odom would continue to be abused at the four. For another, assume Artest guards opposing threes, that still leaves the opposing teams PG and SG to consider. And if you want Kobe to continue being the most productive scorer, don't expect hi to regularly be a shutdown defender at the 2 or 3.
SGH |
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thegreatest
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 9911
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | KA_2 wrote: | | Charles wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | Absolutely I do this trade. Artest for Mihm & Brown is a steal for the Lakers. I like the progress both have made, but their production can be replaced by the free agents Mike listed. Plus there's a chance Turiaf comes back this season.
The foundation of Kobe-Odom-Artest is something the ownership can build around to get us back in Championship contention. |
Yeah. Right. Two young, athletic seven-footers are so easy to replace.
SGH |
Young athletic 7-footers don't win titles. You need physical bigmen to anchor your defense in the post season. |
Great, let's pick up some defensive anchors off the waiver wire. |
You can't. On the other hand, if you can pick up a former DPOY for two 7-footers that have never done anything of note in their careers, you'd be crazier than Artest not to do it. |
Oh, you mean the same former DPOY who melts down each year in the play-offs, and when not melting down in the play-off scuttles his team's seasons by losing all control and attacking fans? That former DPOY? The one whose stated desire is to return to NY to play for the Knicks? The one who wanted to take some time off early last season in order to focus on his burgeoning record-producer career? The one who claims that his coach doesn't like him and limits his touches even though, iirc, the former DPOY leads his team in minutes played and (possibly even) points scored?
The same former DPOY whose team stuck by him after he trashed their season, whose teammates went to war (literally) to cover his back, and whom he now is abandoning with ... abandon?
BTW, aside from winning that DPOY award (which is one of those truly subjective (read: worthless and arbitrary) awards, what has Ron-Ron accomplished that balances out getting suspended for an entire season and destroying his team's chance at a ring? Maybe... melting down in the play-offs against those same Pistons in the fourth quarter costing his team a chance to advance. Oh, wait he did that. Maybe getting suspended for multiple flgrant fouls? oh, wait. He did that, too. Hmm. You're right. Ron-Ron is above reproach.
SGH
SGH |
considers everything not just that the player is a DPOY |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| thegreatest wrote: | | in the first quote i was pointing out that you can't just say that he was a DPOY and not include the bad stuff he comes with, it would be stupid to do so, i thought you would be able to see the point i was making with me not having to sya it.. |
You didn't really write anything that made sense, hence the request for clarification.
And yes, Artest does bring some bad stuff with him. Difference is that if you can get him for mediocre talent that can be pretty easily replaced (see: Kwame and Mihm), you do it.
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Though I can understand the reasoning behind not trading Bynum, he obviously has the body, mind, and overall potential.
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thegreatest
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 9911
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| Artest was serious when asking for time off. it wasn't a joke. even after the fight, it seemed all he cared about was promoting his group |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| thegreatest wrote: | | Artest was serious when asking for time off. it wasn't a joke. even after the fight, it seemed all he cared about was promoting his group |
Artest didn't get time off to produce his record label. Those are the facts.
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Sister Golden Hair
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 15872
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| KA_2 wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | Oh, you mean the same former DPOY who melts down each year in the play-offs, and when not melting down in the play-off scuttles his team's seasons by losing all control and attacking fans? |
Losing all control? Artest did this once, last season, when he went into the stands. The previous season he helped the Pacers win 60+ games and reach the ECF with Jermaine O'Neal and garbage. I'd say he's a pretty high impact player, regardless of one incident.
| Quote: | | That former DPOY? The one whose stated desire is to return to NY to play for the Knicks? |
Artest says a lot of stupid things. Like Shaquille O'Neal for example, who once raised his hand during a players meeting asking who was a member of the Dallas Mavericks during the summer he was traded. If he was serious, then obviously you don't trade for Artest unless you can get him for absolute scrubs.
| Quote: | | The one who wanted to take some time off early last season in order to focus on his burgeoning record-producer career? The one who claims that his coach doesn't like him and limits his touches even though, iirc, the former DPOY leads his team in minutes played and (possibly even) points scored? |
Shaq has said similar idiotic things. He also healed his toe on company time. I don't know about you, but I'd like to have a center who Shaq's impact on the team. FYI.
| Quote: | | The same former DPOY whose team stuck by him after he trashed their season, whose teammates went to war (literally) to cover his back, and whom he now is abandoning with ... abandon? |
Who knows what the real story is, certainly not you and certainly not me. We'll see in the coming months.
| Quote: | | BTW, aside from winning that DPOY award (which is one of those truly subjective (read: worthless and arbitrary) awards, |
Yeah, Ron Artest isn't a DPOY type of player, good call.
| Quote: | | what has Ron-Ron accomplished trhat balances out getting suspended for en entire season and destroying his team's chance at a ring? |
The Pacers weren't good enough to win a ring. They lost to the team that eventually won the title. Hard to fault Artest for that. |
The Pacers weren't good enough? How do you know? He basically guaranteed that the wouldn't even have a chance to find out.
If he's on the court (and as good as you say he is), why wouldn't he make a substantial difference?
Anyway, I'll bow out of this argument. But I'll say this: I'd be shocked if Mitch and Co. were truly contemplating overpaying for a player that is simply not right in the head.
But he can play defense, I'll give him that.
SGH |
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Shapecity
Starting Rotation
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Charles wrote: | | Great, let's pick up some defensive anchors off the waiver wire. |
The Lakers are working with more than a 1 year window to address that need. Wright, Mohammed, Ely, Wilcox, Cato, Battie, Evans, Przybilla, and M. Jackson are some players who be free agents next summer.
Maybe they can use the expiring contracts of George or Slava to land a servicable center.
Last edited by Shapecity on Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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