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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:50 am    Post subject:

initiald wrote:
BillyGWilliams wrote:
"One thing Meeks does well is shoot the 3"<<THIS, AGAIN what is He shooting as a LA LAKER?? Ill wait, and Meeks has "good size for a 2"? Dude looks like he's 6'3 & plays even smaller. CDR is a legit 6'7 with better handles, better suited to defend NBA 2 guards. Also an improving outside shot. There really is no comparison on Meeks vs CDR. Time will tell

Why talk about his Lakers day when he barely played much under Mike Brown. He only recently got a chance to play in the new system. Very small sample size as a Lakers to evaluate him. So you have to trust the bigger sample size during his Philla day. And in those sample size, he shot a very respectable 3pt%.

Meek is 6'4, 6'5 with weight ratio at the 2 man. Bell and Meek are similar. That's why I compare the two.

CDR has good size but he doesn't possess any average NBA skill that you say can do it twice. That's an area that he has to improve for someone to pick him up.


You know who else didn't play much under Brown? Morris. How's he looking now?

One thing that is desperately missing on our 2nd unit is someone who can create off the dribble, which is CDR's forte. We have a lot of guys (Jamison, Meeks, Hill) who literally need to be spoon-fed to score.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:52 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
argue over a scrub.


Yes, Gerald Green is a scrub too.

Of course Gerald Green is a scrub too, with negative net RAPM, 10 PER, can't do anything well except dunk. Though, at least, he has the athleticism and can finish a play.


Yes, you can use your statistics in a pure vacuum. What was Ariza's RAPM/PER when he was traded here, or Shannon Brown?

It's about opportunity, and CDR is a perfect MDA type of player. Frenetic and herky jerky player who would feast off of secondary fast breaks.

Fyi, Ariza had always been a good defender. He had at least 1+ defensive RAPM. That is very good for a wing player. It's his offensive deficiency that hurt him. But generally speaking, pre-Lakers, Ariza had net RAPM.

Shannon is a different story. He is not Ariza-level. He always more of a situational bench guy. Not a legit starter like Peak Ariza.

What make you think he's a MDA type player? Can he shoot? No. Does he have the athleticism and speed to finish a play? Sort of.


Your analysis of Ariza/Brown is in hindsight. My question was at the time they were traded, you would have said the same thing that you are saying about CDR. And look how those two turned out for the team.

CDR is def a MDA type of player off the bench. He's not a knockdown 3 point shooter, but neither is MWP, Pau, Ebanks, but yet they will have to adjust to MDA. What we are missing on the bench is a shot creator in the halfcourt, CDR has the potential to do that.

Those are pre-Lakers statistical analysis. Before they were Lakers, I always view Ariza as a very good defender due to his size, length, and quickness. On defensive end, it was NEVER questionable. It's his offensive inefficiency. To Ariza credit, he developrf his offensive game a little bit during Lakers day and it paid off for him. For CDR, he was never known for anything. He has negative impact on both end of the floors. Dude is a negative -3+ net RAPM. That is borderline scrub among scrub. Though, you never know. Maybe that 1 year off in Europe helps expand his game. But to win the argument of doubt, you got to bring a better argument than him average 49pts with 50+min in a JV league.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:55 am    Post subject:

CDR has good size but he doesn't possess any average NBA skill that you say can do it twice. That's an area that he has to improve for someone to pick him up.
C'mon dude, be serious. CDR is an above average scorer. He has an uncanny ability to finish at the rim and his midrange game is polished. The knock has been his outside shooting. You can't score 30pt games in the NBA and be an average NBA scorer. When you look at his Hollinger stats, his per 36 is very respectable. He just hasn't been placed in the right system. Meeks supposedly has that 1 skill, 3pt shooting. But he hasn't been making those as a Laker, so that makes him useless. I'd rather have a player that is multi-dimensional. Great scorer, capable defender at 6'7, underrated passer/playmaker, improving outside shot.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject:

initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
argue over a scrub.


Yes, Gerald Green is a scrub too.

Of course Gerald Green is a scrub too, with negative net RAPM, 10 PER, can't do anything well except dunk. Though, at least, he has the athleticism and can finish a play.


Yes, you can use your statistics in a pure vacuum. What was Ariza's RAPM/PER when he was traded here, or Shannon Brown?

It's about opportunity, and CDR is a perfect MDA type of player. Frenetic and herky jerky player who would feast off of secondary fast breaks.

Fyi, Ariza had always been a good defender. He had at least 1+ defensive RAPM. That is very good for a wing player. It's his offensive deficiency that hurt him. But generally speaking, pre-Lakers, Ariza had net RAPM.

Shannon is a different story. He is not Ariza-level. He always more of a situational bench guy. Not a legit starter like Peak Ariza.

What make you think he's a MDA type player? Can he shoot? No. Does he have the athleticism and speed to finish a play? Sort of.


Your analysis of Ariza/Brown is in hindsight. My question was at the time they were traded, you would have said the same thing that you are saying about CDR. And look how those two turned out for the team.

CDR is def a MDA type of player off the bench. He's not a knockdown 3 point shooter, but neither is MWP, Pau, Ebanks, but yet they will have to adjust to MDA. What we are missing on the bench is a shot creator in the halfcourt, CDR has the potential to do that.

Those are pre-Lakers statistical analysis. Before they were Lakers, I always view Ariza as a very good defender due to his size, length, and quickness. On defensive end, it was NEVER questionable. It's his offensive inefficiency. To Ariza credit, he developrf his offensive game a little bit during Lakers day and it paid off for him. For CDR, he was never known for anything. He has negative impact on both end of the floors. Dude is a negative -3+ net RAPM. That is borderline scrub among scrub. Though, you never know. Maybe that 1 year off in Europe helps expand his game. But to win the argument of doubt, you got to bring a better argument than him average 49pts with 50+min in a JV league.


So re: Ariza, you say that you discounted his previous "statistics" because you had a gut feeling about his defensive ability, though the "statistics" didn't indicate such.

And when some people have a gut feeling about CDR's game, and his stats were better than Ariza/Brown before they were Lakers, you ask for "statistics?"
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject:

If CDR was that good, Dallas wouldn't have cut him when they signed him shortly after he was cut from the Lakers. Not to mention that is playing in the D-League.

I swear only on LG do people get excited over scrub players like CDR, Glock or DJO.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:59 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
BillyGWilliams wrote:
"One thing Meeks does well is shoot the 3"<<THIS, AGAIN what is He shooting as a LA LAKER?? Ill wait, and Meeks has "good size for a 2"? Dude looks like he's 6'3 & plays even smaller. CDR is a legit 6'7 with better handles, better suited to defend NBA 2 guards. Also an improving outside shot. There really is no comparison on Meeks vs CDR. Time will tell

Why talk about his Lakers day when he barely played much under Mike Brown. He only recently got a chance to play in the new system. Very small sample size as a Lakers to evaluate him. So you have to trust the bigger sample size during his Philla day. And in those sample size, he shot a very respectable 3pt%.

Meek is 6'4, 6'5 with weight ratio at the 2 man. Bell and Meek are similar. That's why I compare the two.

CDR has good size but he doesn't possess any average NBA skill that you say can do it twice. That's an area that he has to improve for someone to pick him up.


You know who else didn't play much under Brown? Morris. How's he looking now?

One thing that is desperately missing on our 2nd unit is someone who can create off the dribble, which is CDR's forte. We have a lot of guys (Jamison, Meeks, Hill) who literally need to be spoon-fed to score.

In MDA 2nd unit, you really don't need multiple create off the dribble guys because only one guy is needed to run the offense and everyone spreads the floor. That guy is the PG. Blake and Morris are both capable guy to do the job. CDR is redundant and doesn't possess skill to compliment that system. His create-off-the dribble as you like to brag fits under a traditional set offense where having multiple guys who can create for themselves is an advantage in case the offense gets stagnant. Not under MDA though. Not to say he is worse than Ebanks. Quite honestly, both suck. This is why I hate discussing about scrub doing anything to change the team game.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:00 am    Post subject:

initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
BillyGWilliams wrote:
"One thing Meeks does well is shoot the 3"<<THIS, AGAIN what is He shooting as a LA LAKER?? Ill wait, and Meeks has "good size for a 2"? Dude looks like he's 6'3 & plays even smaller. CDR is a legit 6'7 with better handles, better suited to defend NBA 2 guards. Also an improving outside shot. There really is no comparison on Meeks vs CDR. Time will tell

Why talk about his Lakers day when he barely played much under Mike Brown. He only recently got a chance to play in the new system. Very small sample size as a Lakers to evaluate him. So you have to trust the bigger sample size during his Philla day. And in those sample size, he shot a very respectable 3pt%.

Meek is 6'4, 6'5 with weight ratio at the 2 man. Bell and Meek are similar. That's why I compare the two.

CDR has good size but he doesn't possess any average NBA skill that you say can do it twice. That's an area that he has to improve for someone to pick him up.


You know who else didn't play much under Brown? Morris. How's he looking now?

One thing that is desperately missing on our 2nd unit is someone who can create off the dribble, which is CDR's forte. We have a lot of guys (Jamison, Meeks, Hill) who literally need to be spoon-fed to score.

In MDA 2nd unit, you really don't need multiple create off the dribble guys because only one guy is needed to run the offense and everyone spreads the floor. That guy is the PG. Blake and Morris are both capable guy to do the job. CDR is redundant and doesn't possess skill to compliment that system. His create-off-the dribble as you like to brag fits under a traditional set offense where having multiple guys who can create for themselves is an advantage in case the offense gets stagnant. Not under MDA though. Not to say he is worse than Ebanks. Quite honestly, both suck. This is why I hate discussing about scrub doing anything to change the team game.


Right, but at least be genuine when you argue using statistics, because you can't have it both ways.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:05 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
argue over a scrub.


Yes, Gerald Green is a scrub too.

Of course Gerald Green is a scrub too, with negative net RAPM, 10 PER, can't do anything well except dunk. Though, at least, he has the athleticism and can finish a play.


Yes, you can use your statistics in a pure vacuum. What was Ariza's RAPM/PER when he was traded here, or Shannon Brown?

It's about opportunity, and CDR is a perfect MDA type of player. Frenetic and herky jerky player who would feast off of secondary fast breaks.

Fyi, Ariza had always been a good defender. He had at least 1+ defensive RAPM. That is very good for a wing player. It's his offensive deficiency that hurt him. But generally speaking, pre-Lakers, Ariza had net RAPM.

Shannon is a different story. He is not Ariza-level. He always more of a situational bench guy. Not a legit starter like Peak Ariza.

What make you think he's a MDA type player? Can he shoot? No. Does he have the athleticism and speed to finish a play? Sort of.


Your analysis of Ariza/Brown is in hindsight. My question was at the time they were traded, you would have said the same thing that you are saying about CDR. And look how those two turned out for the team.

CDR is def a MDA type of player off the bench. He's not a knockdown 3 point shooter, but neither is MWP, Pau, Ebanks, but yet they will have to adjust to MDA. What we are missing on the bench is a shot creator in the halfcourt, CDR has the potential to do that.

Those are pre-Lakers statistical analysis. Before they were Lakers, I always view Ariza as a very good defender due to his size, length, and quickness. On defensive end, it was NEVER questionable. It's his offensive inefficiency. To Ariza credit, he developrf his offensive game a little bit during Lakers day and it paid off for him. For CDR, he was never known for anything. He has negative impact on both end of the floors. Dude is a negative -3+ net RAPM. That is borderline scrub among scrub. Though, you never know. Maybe that 1 year off in Europe helps expand his game. But to win the argument of doubt, you got to bring a better argument than him average 49pts with 50+min in a JV league.


So re: Ariza, you say that you discounted his previous "statistics" because you had a gut feeling about his defensive ability, though the "statistics" didn't indicate such.

And when some people have a gut feeling about CDR's game, and his stats were better than Ariza/Brown before they were Lakers, you ask for "statistics?"

You must be confused. Those are his RAPM number before he was a Lakers, specially his Orlando day. His were positive in net RAPM. He is positive in defense, negative in offense. But his net is positive when combine the two together.

That's not gut feeling. That is his stat proved that! Although I said my gut feeling proved right after he got trade to the Lakers. That he was a very good defender. That is never questionable. It's his offensive game that is very questionable.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:09 am    Post subject:

initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
argue over a scrub.


Yes, Gerald Green is a scrub too.

Of course Gerald Green is a scrub too, with negative net RAPM, 10 PER, can't do anything well except dunk. Though, at least, he has the athleticism and can finish a play.


Yes, you can use your statistics in a pure vacuum. What was Ariza's RAPM/PER when he was traded here, or Shannon Brown?

It's about opportunity, and CDR is a perfect MDA type of player. Frenetic and herky jerky player who would feast off of secondary fast breaks.

Fyi, Ariza had always been a good defender. He had at least 1+ defensive RAPM. That is very good for a wing player. It's his offensive deficiency that hurt him. But generally speaking, pre-Lakers, Ariza had net RAPM.

Shannon is a different story. He is not Ariza-level. He always more of a situational bench guy. Not a legit starter like Peak Ariza.

What make you think he's a MDA type player? Can he shoot? No. Does he have the athleticism and speed to finish a play? Sort of.


Your analysis of Ariza/Brown is in hindsight. My question was at the time they were traded, you would have said the same thing that you are saying about CDR. And look how those two turned out for the team.

CDR is def a MDA type of player off the bench. He's not a knockdown 3 point shooter, but neither is MWP, Pau, Ebanks, but yet they will have to adjust to MDA. What we are missing on the bench is a shot creator in the halfcourt, CDR has the potential to do that.

Those are pre-Lakers statistical analysis. Before they were Lakers, I always view Ariza as a very good defender due to his size, length, and quickness. On defensive end, it was NEVER questionable. It's his offensive inefficiency. To Ariza credit, he developrf his offensive game a little bit during Lakers day and it paid off for him. For CDR, he was never known for anything. He has negative impact on both end of the floors. Dude is a negative -3+ net RAPM. That is borderline scrub among scrub. Though, you never know. Maybe that 1 year off in Europe helps expand his game. But to win the argument of doubt, you got to bring a better argument than him average 49pts with 50+min in a JV league.


So re: Ariza, you say that you discounted his previous "statistics" because you had a gut feeling about his defensive ability, though the "statistics" didn't indicate such.

And when some people have a gut feeling about CDR's game, and his stats were better than Ariza/Brown before they were Lakers, you ask for "statistics?"

You must be confused. Those are his RAPM number before he was a Lakers, specially his Orlando day. His were positive in net RAPM. He is positive in defense, negative in offense. But his net is positive when combine the two together.

That's not gut feeling. That is his stat proved that! Although I said my gut feeling proved right after he got trade to the Lakers. That he was a very good defender. That is never questionable. It's his offensive game that is very questionable.


As an aside, using your venerated RAPM, you'd have to agree then that Josh Smith is considered a top notch defender at the PF spot using defensive RAPM stats?

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2233
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:12 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
BillyGWilliams wrote:
"One thing Meeks does well is shoot the 3"<<THIS, AGAIN what is He shooting as a LA LAKER?? Ill wait, and Meeks has "good size for a 2"? Dude looks like he's 6'3 & plays even smaller. CDR is a legit 6'7 with better handles, better suited to defend NBA 2 guards. Also an improving outside shot. There really is no comparison on Meeks vs CDR. Time will tell

Why talk about his Lakers day when he barely played much under Mike Brown. He only recently got a chance to play in the new system. Very small sample size as a Lakers to evaluate him. So you have to trust the bigger sample size during his Philla day. And in those sample size, he shot a very respectable 3pt%.

Meek is 6'4, 6'5 with weight ratio at the 2 man. Bell and Meek are similar. That's why I compare the two.

CDR has good size but he doesn't possess any average NBA skill that you say can do it twice. That's an area that he has to improve for someone to pick him up.


You know who else didn't play much under Brown? Morris. How's he looking now?

One thing that is desperately missing on our 2nd unit is someone who can create off the dribble, which is CDR's forte. We have a lot of guys (Jamison, Meeks, Hill) who literally need to be spoon-fed to score.

In MDA 2nd unit, you really don't need multiple create off the dribble guys because only one guy is needed to run the offense and everyone spreads the floor. That guy is the PG. Blake and Morris are both capable guy to do the job. CDR is redundant and doesn't possess skill to compliment that system. His create-off-the dribble as you like to brag fits under a traditional set offense where having multiple guys who can create for themselves is an advantage in case the offense gets stagnant. Not under MDA though. Not to say he is worse than Ebanks. Quite honestly, both suck. This is why I hate discussing about scrub doing anything to change the team game.


Right, but at least be genuine when you argue using statistics, because you can't have it both ways.

What are you talking about?

Ariza previous season in Orlando before Lakers trade.

Defensive RAPM: +1.9
Offensive RAPM: -1.3
Net positive in +/- change: +0.6

CDR previous season in the NBA.

Defensive RAPM: -1.8
Offensive RAPM: -1.0
Net negative in +/- change: -2.8
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:14 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
argue over a scrub.


Yes, Gerald Green is a scrub too.

Of course Gerald Green is a scrub too, with negative net RAPM, 10 PER, can't do anything well except dunk. Though, at least, he has the athleticism and can finish a play.


Yes, you can use your statistics in a pure vacuum. What was Ariza's RAPM/PER when he was traded here, or Shannon Brown?

It's about opportunity, and CDR is a perfect MDA type of player. Frenetic and herky jerky player who would feast off of secondary fast breaks.

Fyi, Ariza had always been a good defender. He had at least 1+ defensive RAPM. That is very good for a wing player. It's his offensive deficiency that hurt him. But generally speaking, pre-Lakers, Ariza had net RAPM.

Shannon is a different story. He is not Ariza-level. He always more of a situational bench guy. Not a legit starter like Peak Ariza.

What make you think he's a MDA type player? Can he shoot? No. Does he have the athleticism and speed to finish a play? Sort of.


Your analysis of Ariza/Brown is in hindsight. My question was at the time they were traded, you would have said the same thing that you are saying about CDR. And look how those two turned out for the team.

CDR is def a MDA type of player off the bench. He's not a knockdown 3 point shooter, but neither is MWP, Pau, Ebanks, but yet they will have to adjust to MDA. What we are missing on the bench is a shot creator in the halfcourt, CDR has the potential to do that.

Those are pre-Lakers statistical analysis. Before they were Lakers, I always view Ariza as a very good defender due to his size, length, and quickness. On defensive end, it was NEVER questionable. It's his offensive inefficiency. To Ariza credit, he developrf his offensive game a little bit during Lakers day and it paid off for him. For CDR, he was never known for anything. He has negative impact on both end of the floors. Dude is a negative -3+ net RAPM. That is borderline scrub among scrub. Though, you never know. Maybe that 1 year off in Europe helps expand his game. But to win the argument of doubt, you got to bring a better argument than him average 49pts with 50+min in a JV league.


So re: Ariza, you say that you discounted his previous "statistics" because you had a gut feeling about his defensive ability, though the "statistics" didn't indicate such.

And when some people have a gut feeling about CDR's game, and his stats were better than Ariza/Brown before they were Lakers, you ask for "statistics?"

You must be confused. Those are his RAPM number before he was a Lakers, specially his Orlando day. His were positive in net RAPM. He is positive in defense, negative in offense. But his net is positive when combine the two together.

That's not gut feeling. That is his stat proved that! Although I said my gut feeling proved right after he got trade to the Lakers. That he was a very good defender. That is never questionable. It's his offensive game that is very questionable.


As an aside, using your venerated RAPM, you'd have to agree then that Josh Smith is considered a top notch defender at the PF spot using defensive RAPM stats?

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2233

I always said Josh is an elite defender. His defensive impact is not questionable. He is really really good on that end.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject:

initiald wrote:
I always said Josh is an elite defender. His defensive impact is not questionable. He is really really good on that end.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves. His defensive stats go up because of his team defense. He is a good help defender and can pick up teammates' mistakes. But he is well below average on solo D.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject:

initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
BillyGWilliams wrote:
"One thing Meeks does well is shoot the 3"<<THIS, AGAIN what is He shooting as a LA LAKER?? Ill wait, and Meeks has "good size for a 2"? Dude looks like he's 6'3 & plays even smaller. CDR is a legit 6'7 with better handles, better suited to defend NBA 2 guards. Also an improving outside shot. There really is no comparison on Meeks vs CDR. Time will tell

Why talk about his Lakers day when he barely played much under Mike Brown. He only recently got a chance to play in the new system. Very small sample size as a Lakers to evaluate him. So you have to trust the bigger sample size during his Philla day. And in those sample size, he shot a very respectable 3pt%.

Meek is 6'4, 6'5 with weight ratio at the 2 man. Bell and Meek are similar. That's why I compare the two.

CDR has good size but he doesn't possess any average NBA skill that you say can do it twice. That's an area that he has to improve for someone to pick him up.


You know who else didn't play much under Brown? Morris. How's he looking now?

One thing that is desperately missing on our 2nd unit is someone who can create off the dribble, which is CDR's forte. We have a lot of guys (Jamison, Meeks, Hill) who literally need to be spoon-fed to score.

In MDA 2nd unit, you really don't need multiple create off the dribble guys because only one guy is needed to run the offense and everyone spreads the floor. That guy is the PG. Blake and Morris are both capable guy to do the job. CDR is redundant and doesn't possess skill to compliment that system. His create-off-the dribble as you like to brag fits under a traditional set offense where having multiple guys who can create for themselves is an advantage in case the offense gets stagnant. Not under MDA though. Not to say he is worse than Ebanks. Quite honestly, both suck. This is why I hate discussing about scrub doing anything to change the team game.


Right, but at least be genuine when you argue using statistics, because you can't have it both ways.

What are you talking about?

Ariza previous season in Orlando before Lakers trade.

Defensive RAPM: +1.9
Offensive RAPM: -1.3
Net positive in +/- change: +0.6

CDR previous season in the NBA.

Defensive RAPM: -1.8
Offensive RAPM: -1.0
Net negative in +/- change: -2.8


That's fair. I'm not a big RAPM fan, but what are the numbers for SHannon Brown?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:19 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
initiald wrote:
I always said Josh is an elite defender. His defensive impact is not questionable. He is really really good on that end.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves. His defensive stats go up because of his team defense. He is a good help defender and can pick up teammates' mistakes. But he is well below average on solo D.

If there is a stat for solo D only, you'll be surprise at how many guys in this league that you know are good defender turn out to be worser than you think. Truth of the matter is, team D will always supersede individual D.

From an eyes test, Josh is average in individual D. Just like Howard.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
BillyGWilliams wrote:
"One thing Meeks does well is shoot the 3"<<THIS, AGAIN what is He shooting as a LA LAKER?? Ill wait, and Meeks has "good size for a 2"? Dude looks like he's 6'3 & plays even smaller. CDR is a legit 6'7 with better handles, better suited to defend NBA 2 guards. Also an improving outside shot. There really is no comparison on Meeks vs CDR. Time will tell

Why talk about his Lakers day when he barely played much under Mike Brown. He only recently got a chance to play in the new system. Very small sample size as a Lakers to evaluate him. So you have to trust the bigger sample size during his Philla day. And in those sample size, he shot a very respectable 3pt%.

Meek is 6'4, 6'5 with weight ratio at the 2 man. Bell and Meek are similar. That's why I compare the two.

CDR has good size but he doesn't possess any average NBA skill that you say can do it twice. That's an area that he has to improve for someone to pick him up.


You know who else didn't play much under Brown? Morris. How's he looking now?

One thing that is desperately missing on our 2nd unit is someone who can create off the dribble, which is CDR's forte. We have a lot of guys (Jamison, Meeks, Hill) who literally need to be spoon-fed to score.

In MDA 2nd unit, you really don't need multiple create off the dribble guys because only one guy is needed to run the offense and everyone spreads the floor. That guy is the PG. Blake and Morris are both capable guy to do the job. CDR is redundant and doesn't possess skill to compliment that system. His create-off-the dribble as you like to brag fits under a traditional set offense where having multiple guys who can create for themselves is an advantage in case the offense gets stagnant. Not under MDA though. Not to say he is worse than Ebanks. Quite honestly, both suck. This is why I hate discussing about scrub doing anything to change the team game.


Right, but at least be genuine when you argue using statistics, because you can't have it both ways.

What are you talking about?

Ariza previous season in Orlando before Lakers trade.

Defensive RAPM: +1.9
Offensive RAPM: -1.3
Net positive in +/- change: +0.6

CDR previous season in the NBA.

Defensive RAPM: -1.8
Offensive RAPM: -1.0
Net negative in +/- change: -2.8


That's fair. I'm not a big RAPM fan, but what are the numbers for SHannon Brown?

lol RAPM is the best at evaluating a player true ability because it used advance parameter to evaluate a player impact, possession per possession, on both ends.

For Shannon Brown, before trade to Lakers, in his Charlotte day:

Defensive RAPM; -1.8
Offensive RAPM: -1.0
Net negative in +/- change: -2.8
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject:

initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
initiald wrote:
BillyGWilliams wrote:
"One thing Meeks does well is shoot the 3"<<THIS, AGAIN what is He shooting as a LA LAKER?? Ill wait, and Meeks has "good size for a 2"? Dude looks like he's 6'3 & plays even smaller. CDR is a legit 6'7 with better handles, better suited to defend NBA 2 guards. Also an improving outside shot. There really is no comparison on Meeks vs CDR. Time will tell

Why talk about his Lakers day when he barely played much under Mike Brown. He only recently got a chance to play in the new system. Very small sample size as a Lakers to evaluate him. So you have to trust the bigger sample size during his Philla day. And in those sample size, he shot a very respectable 3pt%.

Meek is 6'4, 6'5 with weight ratio at the 2 man. Bell and Meek are similar. That's why I compare the two.

CDR has good size but he doesn't possess any average NBA skill that you say can do it twice. That's an area that he has to improve for someone to pick him up.


You know who else didn't play much under Brown? Morris. How's he looking now?

One thing that is desperately missing on our 2nd unit is someone who can create off the dribble, which is CDR's forte. We have a lot of guys (Jamison, Meeks, Hill) who literally need to be spoon-fed to score.

In MDA 2nd unit, you really don't need multiple create off the dribble guys because only one guy is needed to run the offense and everyone spreads the floor. That guy is the PG. Blake and Morris are both capable guy to do the job. CDR is redundant and doesn't possess skill to compliment that system. His create-off-the dribble as you like to brag fits under a traditional set offense where having multiple guys who can create for themselves is an advantage in case the offense gets stagnant. Not under MDA though. Not to say he is worse than Ebanks. Quite honestly, both suck. This is why I hate discussing about scrub doing anything to change the team game.


Right, but at least be genuine when you argue using statistics, because you can't have it both ways.

What are you talking about?

Ariza previous season in Orlando before Lakers trade.

Defensive RAPM: +1.9
Offensive RAPM: -1.3
Net positive in +/- change: +0.6

CDR previous season in the NBA.

Defensive RAPM: -1.8
Offensive RAPM: -1.0
Net negative in +/- change: -2.8


That's fair. I'm not a big RAPM fan, but what are the numbers for SHannon Brown?

lol RAPM is the best at evaluating a player true ability because it used advance parameter to evaluate a player impact, possession per possession, on both ends.

For Shannon Brown, before trade to Lakers, in his Charlotte day:

Defensive RAPM; -1.8
Offensive RAPM: -1.0
Net negative in +/- change: -2.8


That's what I figured. So by these metrics, you would have said a resounding NO to Brown too?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:46 am    Post subject:

it was moved
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject:

chipotleattack wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
3peat_pete wrote:
CDR and Goudelock cut by stupid Mike Brown. Sheesh.

wasted a spot on Ebanks and DJO


I don't known why I bother sometimes, but no, Brown didn't cut anyone, Mitch is the one who does that.


Obviously they didn't fit into Mike Brown's grand plan, so yes, Mike Brown cut them. I don't know why I bother sometimes.


It had everything to do with finances and nothing with play on the court. Guaranteed contracts will be kept over non-guaranteed ones.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject:

kobe_luver wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Yueh Fei Returns wrote:
We should cut EBanks and get CDR back.


There is 3 million reasons that the team doesn't do that.


We were smart enough to cut our losses with Brown for much more $$ lost....why not with Ebanks (for a good backup player....CDR)? If we wait I guarantee another team will grab him.


Because paying an extra $3 mil for a guy who won't play is wasteful.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

You know who else didn't play much under Brown? Morris. How's he looking now?

One thing that is desperately missing on our 2nd unit is someone who can create off the dribble, which is CDR's forte. We have a lot of guys (Jamison, Meeks, Hill) who literally need to be spoon-fed to score.


Morris is only playing because our top 2 PGs are out. If we still had a healthy Nash and Blake, Morris would only see garbage time. With Artest and Kobe taking SF minutes, there wouldn't be many more to dish out to anyone else.
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dfchang813
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

You know who else didn't play much under Brown? Morris. How's he looking now?

One thing that is desperately missing on our 2nd unit is someone who can create off the dribble, which is CDR's forte. We have a lot of guys (Jamison, Meeks, Hill) who literally need to be spoon-fed to score.


Morris is only playing because our top 2 PGs are out. If we still had a healthy Nash and Blake, Morris would only see garbage time. With Artest and Kobe taking SF minutes, there wouldn't be many more to dish out to anyone else.


Sometimes desperation uncovers diamonds in the rough.

How did Jordan Hill first get burn last year? Now he is arguably one of our best bench players.

Morris would have been buried but injuries have given him a chance to shine and if he keeps this up he should be our back-up PG.

There's a lot of guys who can play in the NBA but aren't given the opportunity to do so.

Ebanks has been given an opportunity and has shown us nothing so far. I say cut him and get CDR on board.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject:

dfchang813 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

You know who else didn't play much under Brown? Morris. How's he looking now?

One thing that is desperately missing on our 2nd unit is someone who can create off the dribble, which is CDR's forte. We have a lot of guys (Jamison, Meeks, Hill) who literally need to be spoon-fed to score.


Morris is only playing because our top 2 PGs are out. If we still had a healthy Nash and Blake, Morris would only see garbage time. With Artest and Kobe taking SF minutes, there wouldn't be many more to dish out to anyone else.


Sometimes desperation uncovers diamonds in the rough.

How did Jordan Hill first get burn last year? Now he is arguably one of our best bench players.

Morris would have been buried but injuries have given him a chance to shine and if he keeps this up he should be our back-up PG.


There's a lot of guys who can play in the NBA but aren't given the opportunity to do so.

Ebanks has been given an opportunity and has shown us nothing so far. I say cut him and get CDR on board.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject:

Mitch made a big mistake in releasing CDR

#BringBackCDR
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject:

CDR watch

23 pts, 9/15 fg, 6 reb, 6 ast, 2 stl

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/chris_douglas-roberts/
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject:

http://humble-flashy.tumblr.com/post/38806787959/im-a-firm-believer-in-energy-i-believe-the
Quote:


Iím a firm believer in energy. I believe the energy you place in the atmosphere is the energy youíll receive. This morning I felt some special energy. Iím not sure who itís from or where itís coming from, but it was so strong it woke me up this Christmas morning and made me jump on Tumblr. I hope this reaches the person(s) itís intended for.

Those of you who know me, also know my story. However, Iíll give you a brief on the last couple of months and how I handled each situation. When I got back from Italy after the lockout year, I was a unrestricted free agent. Teams were afraid to sign me. Not because I lacked skill, but because I developed a reputation for having a bad attitude. Early in my career I was very immature. I handled a lot of situations the wrong way. I simply didnít know how to be a professional, but it was never in a harmful way. I was just young. I owned it though. I took responsibility for my past. Because of that, I matured. I couldíve pointed the finger and used excuses as a crutch, but I didnít. I knew I was an NBA player. I knew I belonged, but I also knew my road back was going to be rocky.

Last summer I woke up stressed out damn near every morning. Some days were better than others, but most were bad. I knew I had the game, but going into the last week before training camp, I was still without a team. Even through all the uncertainty, my faith still outweighed my fear. I continued to release positive energy into the atmosphereÖ.then out of no where, the Lakers called. They wanted me to come in and earn a spot. Once I got that call, it was made up in my mind that Iíd be a Laker. I knew I was going to go in there and showcase my talent. Which I did. The very first day I was 1 on 1 partners with Kobe. And we were going at it. (bleep) talkingÖelbows were thrown. To my surprise, after that first practice Kobe went to media and spoke highly of me. Everyday I played well and practiced well. Kobe continued to mentor me along the way. The Laker fans embraced me. I just knew I was in. Then I got a call from Leon (my agent) saying they were going to let me go. They told me I played great. The numbers on the business side just wouldnít work. It was one of the worst phone calls Iíve ever gotten, but I was at peace because I knew I played my ass off. I brought it every day. My motto is ďcontrol what you can controlĒ and I did that. That didnít matter though. Once it got released that the Lakers let me go, the people thought it was due to my game. People had jokes. People wrote me off. It was embarrassing. However, I took positives away from my month with the Lakers too. I developed a relationship with Kobe Bryant. He showed me how to be a pro. He showed me real work ethic. Playing against him everyday made me so much of a better player. He understood me. He understood that its a difference in having a bad attitude and being competitive and wanting to win every drill/game. One night after a game and we were in the showers and he told me ďyou have no other choice. You were put here to be basketball player. You have to fight until youíre one of them boys. Youíre too talented. I played behind mfers that I was better than up until my third year but I KNEW I would be who I am today then. I work too hard not to break through.Ē That stuck with me. So I appreciate the opportunity the Lakers gave me. I looked at that month with the Lakers as an internship under Bean. I gained knowledge that I couldnít have gotten any other way. Thatís what I took from that situation. Itís all about how you respond when times are rough.

At this point, I had two avenues to take. Go to the D-League, or go overseas. My heart and my dreams were in the NBA. Even though I never thought Iíd ever play in the D-League, I felt that was the fastest way back to the NBA. This is where my faith had to outweigh my fear. I turned down seven figures overseas to follow my heart. When your passionate about your craft, the money doesnít matter. I humbled myself and signed with the Dallas Mavericks D-League affiliate. Instead of complaining about not being in the NBA. I made up in my mind that I was going to be the best player in the D-League. Vowed not to take a day off. I was on a mission. The first game I scored 50 points. I wanted to dominate the competition. I wanted to erase all doubts. Every game I wanted to destroy the competition. Every game I came in with a killer mindset. I played 10 games in the D-League with that singular focus and just like that, I was back where I belonged. I signed with the Dallas Mavericks three days ago. Iím so proud to be a part of Mavs nation.

All that to say, I know itís a clichť, but donít ever give up. The fight is only over if you make up in your mind that itís over. Your mind and your heart knows what your soul yearns for. You never know how close you are to breaking through at the moment you give up. You can be right there. Your confidence and faith has to be stronger than your fear and uncertainty. Every success story has failure along the way. Every great man or women has failed at least one time on their journey to greatness. Itís a part of the journey. Every time you fail, itís a lesson that youíre suppose to take from it. Itís on you though. An excuse is your worst enemy. Excuses are used by incompetent people. Take control of your life. When (bleep) is going terribly, you always have two choices: 1. pity yourself and blame others or 2. find the POSITIVE lesson from it and thug it out until you reach your ultimate goal.

LOVE

CDR

how can you not like his new attitude, hope he stays in the league for a long time
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