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angrypuppy
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 Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:17 am Post subject: |
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They'd have to build or purchase:
1) A sub capable of launching a SLBM
2) A SLBM
You'd need both as a package; you can't take a land based ICBM and modify it for a sub launch.
Even if they somehow got their hands on a antiquated Russian ballistic missile submarine, trained them and stocked the sub with SLBMs (highly unlikely, that would increase tensions to the nth degree and North Korea isn't worth it) they'd have to escape detection, which is a near impossibility as the old Russian subs are noisier than hell and they'd only have one point of departure due to the requisite submarine pen. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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I remember North Korea making similar threats a decade ago. They were threatening us with a third world war. It was all talk and they didn't do much.
I don't blame then for wanting those nukes though. Gaddafi in Libya got rid of his weapons, and how did the United States respond? It helped the rebels who overthrew him and killed him. That was a terrible message to send to countries like Iran and North Korea. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | I remember North Korea making similar threats a decade ago. They were threatening us with a third world war. It was all talk and they didn't do much.
I don't blame then for wanting those nukes though. Gaddafi in Libya got rid of his weapons, and how did the United States respond? |
The US didn't respond. The repressed people of Libya did.
| Quote: | | It helped the rebels who overthrew him and killed him. |
The US aided a civilian population under attack. A crazed dictator being deposed is a bad thing in your opinion?
| Quote: | | That was a terrible message to send to countries like Iran and North Korea. |
Iran and North Korea aren't facing rebellions. |
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55
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Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| No worries fellas... Rodman will make peace. |
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Stylistic Stylez
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 4336
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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I say we nuke them first. Nobody dares threaten my country and my family that call it home
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | I remember North Korea making similar threats a decade ago. They were threatening us with a third world war. It was all talk and they didn't do much.
I don't blame then for wanting those nukes though. Gaddafi in Libya got rid of his weapons, and how did the United States respond? It helped the rebels who overthrew him and killed him. That was a terrible message to send to countries like Iran and North Korea. |
You must have missed the fact that the US didn't do anything to get rid of him other than doing what other western nations at the time were doing, which was to enforce a no fly zone so that he couldn't bomb his own people into oblivion. If you want to blame a country, you should blame France as they actually sent fighter jets deep into Libya to bomb his facilities. The reason why Gaddaffi lost his power was that the people got inspired by other revolutions at the time in the area and decided to mobilize and take back their country. As long as the people in Iran and North Korea are unarmed and weak, they can't overthrow their governments even if they wanted to. Sticks and clubs are useless against a government which has all the guns. |
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Steve007
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13227
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | I remember North Korea making similar threats a decade ago. They were threatening us with a third world war. It was all talk and they didn't do much.
I don't blame then for wanting those nukes though. Gaddafi in Libya got rid of his weapons, and how did the United States respond? |
The US didn't respond. The repressed people of Libya did.
| Quote: | | It helped the rebels who overthrew him and killed him. |
The US aided a civilian population under attack. A crazed dictator being deposed is a bad thing in your opinion?
| Quote: | | That was a terrible message to send to countries like Iran and North Korea. |
Iran and North Korea aren't facing rebellions. |
The US DID respond by aiding the rebels enough that it was able to make the difference. As a result, we did have their leader killed. He wasn't just removed from power. He was killed.
Sure, Iran and North Korea aren't facing rebellions yet. And the same was true for Libya before they got rid of their weapons. |
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Don Draper
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Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| George Wallace / Curtis LeMay 2016. Those North Koreans won't know what hit them. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | I remember North Korea making similar threats a decade ago. They were threatening us with a third world war. It was all talk and they didn't do much.
I don't blame then for wanting those nukes though. Gaddafi in Libya got rid of his weapons, and how did the United States respond? It helped the rebels who overthrew him and killed him. That was a terrible message to send to countries like Iran and North Korea. |
You must have missed the fact that the US didn't do anything to get rid of him other than doing what other western nations at the time were doing, which was to enforce a no fly zone so that he couldn't bomb his own people into oblivion. If you want to blame a country, you should blame France as they actually sent fighter jets deep into Libya to bomb his facilities. The reason why Gaddaffi lost his power was that the people got inspired by other revolutions at the time in the area and decided to mobilize and take back their country. As long as the people in Iran and North Korea are unarmed and weak, they can't overthrow their governments even if they wanted to. Sticks and clubs are useless against a government which has all the guns. |
You make it sound like we only wanted to protect civilians and didn't care about the outcome of that conflict. Surely you don't buy that. We were clearly siding with and helping the people who overthrew him and killed him.
It's not always a great thing when a government gets overthrown. The people of Iran overthrew the Shah. That didn't work out too well. There are also a lot of people that hate the United States and support Al Qaeda that have their own ideas about how the country should be governed. By overthrowing someone like Gadafi, it makes it easier for the Muslim Brotherhood to take over.
It's hard to see the leaders of countries like Iran and North Korea looking at what happened to Gadafi, and thinking that following in his footsteps is the way to go. You may argue that the leaders of those countries are much harder to overthrow, but if they're paranoid like a lot of crazy leaders, then I wouldn't be surprised if they do worry about being overthrown and even killed. Hugo Chavez wasn't the only paranoid leader out there. |
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non-player zealot
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Joined: 05 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:24 am Post subject: |
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How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel.... and push those R eaters back to the Great Wall of China, and take it apart brick by brick, and nuke them back into the (bleep) Stone Age River?!! OOOOH! OOOOOOOOOOOH!
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | I remember North Korea making similar threats a decade ago. They were threatening us with a third world war. It was all talk and they didn't do much.
I don't blame then for wanting those nukes though. Gaddafi in Libya got rid of his weapons, and how did the United States respond? It helped the rebels who overthrew him and killed him. That was a terrible message to send to countries like Iran and North Korea. |
You must have missed the fact that the US didn't do anything to get rid of him other than doing what other western nations at the time were doing, which was to enforce a no fly zone so that he couldn't bomb his own people into oblivion. If you want to blame a country, you should blame France as they actually sent fighter jets deep into Libya to bomb his facilities. The reason why Gaddaffi lost his power was that the people got inspired by other revolutions at the time in the area and decided to mobilize and take back their country. As long as the people in Iran and North Korea are unarmed and weak, they can't overthrow their governments even if they wanted to. Sticks and clubs are useless against a government which has all the guns. |
You make it sound like we only wanted to protect civilians and didn't care about the outcome of that conflict. Surely you don't buy that. We were clearly siding with and helping the people who overthrew him and killed him.
It's not always a great thing when a government gets overthrown. The people of Iran overthrew the Shah. That didn't work out too well. There are also a lot of people that hate the United States and support Al Qaeda that have their own ideas about how the country should be governed. By overthrowing someone like Gadafi, it makes it easier for the Muslim Brotherhood to take over.
It's hard to see the leaders of countries like Iran and North Korea looking at what happened to Gadafi, and thinking that following in his footsteps is the way to go. You may argue that the leaders of those countries are much harder to overthrow, but if they're paranoid like a lot of crazy leaders, then I wouldn't be surprised if they do worry about being overthrown and even killed. Hugo Chavez wasn't the only paranoid leader out there. |
And the alternative is?
Though I agree with DMR on the initial point that it was a popular uprising that deposed Gaddafi; western fighters helped expedite what would have been a longer, likely bloodier process. Gaddafi didn't cooperate with the west because he became a good guy, he simply felt that the years of sanctions were affecting Libya and thus his grip on Libya. There's no love there, he was directly responsible for Pan Am 103.
But now you're taking the thread into another direction. There really isn't a simple solution. If you aid in the overthrow of a government and selfishly establish one sympathetic to your own interests, you plant the seeds for the next Iran. If you destroy a secular government in the Middle East, you better prepare for a fanatical religious government to take its place, one that is less likely to deal with you (Iraq). If you prop up an unpopular government by having business dealings with it, you invite the hatred of its people and fan the flames of paranoia (which helped set the stage in the Middle East).
We shouldn't tolerate a country that wishes to destroy us and is undertaking a program that may eventually achieve that goal. Now is the time for sanctions, and to work with the Chinese (N. Korea's only real trading partner and ally) to defuse a dangerous situation. |
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bodyrock
Star Player
Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Posts: 2602
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Forget Rodman, send Meta World PEACE to kill North Korea's momentum. |
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egg
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20,000
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
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Location: Likely nowhere near you
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel.... and push those R eaters back to the Great Wall of China, and take it apart brick by brick, and nuke them back into the (bleep) Stone Age River?!! OOOOH! OOOOOOOOOOOH! |
Noice!
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Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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Don Draper
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel.... and push those R eaters back to the Great Wall of China, and take it apart brick by brick, and nuke them back into the (bleep) Stone Age River?!! OOOOH! OOOOOOOOOOOH! |
The Chinese army decimated our forces in the Korean War once we passed the Yalu River, that's why. If China weren't there we would have dealt with NK a long time ago. |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | | non-player zealot wrote: | | How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel.... and push those R eaters back to the Great Wall of China, and take it apart brick by brick, and nuke them back into the (bleep) Stone Age River?!! OOOOH! OOOOOOOOOOOH! |
The Chinese army decimated our forces in the Korean War once we passed the Yalu River, that's why. If China weren't there we would have dealt with NK a long time ago. |
He was quoting Sam Kinison. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | | non-player zealot wrote: | | How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel.... and push those R eaters back to the Great Wall of China, and take it apart brick by brick, and nuke them back into the (bleep) Stone Age River?!! OOOOH! OOOOOOOOOOOH! |
The Chinese army decimated our forces in the Korean War once we passed the Yalu River, that's why. If China weren't there we would have dealt with NK a long time ago. |
Nothing short of the US using a nuke would've ended that war in favorable terms for us. The US were outnumbered and they didn't want to send more men to die in a fruitless war. You have to remember back then the technology difference between the US and the opposition was much closer than it is today. If there was a war today, the US would run roughshod over the North Korean army, plus the Russians wouldn't be putting their pilots in harms way like in the Korean war. |
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Don Draper
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | non-player zealot wrote: | | How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel.... and push those R eaters back to the Great Wall of China, and take it apart brick by brick, and nuke them back into the (bleep) Stone Age River?!! OOOOH! OOOOOOOOOOOH! |
The Chinese army decimated our forces in the Korean War once we passed the Yalu River, that's why. If China weren't there we would have dealt with NK a long time ago. |
Nothing short of the US using a nuke would've ended that war in favorable terms for us. The US were outnumbered and they didn't want to send more men to die in a fruitless war. You have to remember back then the technology difference between the US and the opposition was much closer than it is today. If there was a war today, the US would run roughshod over the North Korean army, plus the Russians wouldn't be putting their pilots in harms way like in the Korean war. |
We ran roughshod over the NK army back then, (well MacArthur did at least) but we were unprepared for the sheer numbers of the Chinese Army. It didn't help that GodArthur had a deity complex and thought he could do whatever he wanted even though the Chinese said not to advance past the Yalu river.
No doubt we would decimate NK one on one, but as always its those Chinese and Russians that are the problem. If they put half as much pressure as we put on NK it would be game over. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | I remember North Korea making similar threats a decade ago. They were threatening us with a third world war. It was all talk and they didn't do much.
I don't blame then for wanting those nukes though. Gaddafi in Libya got rid of his weapons, and how did the United States respond? It helped the rebels who overthrew him and killed him. That was a terrible message to send to countries like Iran and North Korea. |
You must have missed the fact that the US didn't do anything to get rid of him other than doing what other western nations at the time were doing, which was to enforce a no fly zone so that he couldn't bomb his own people into oblivion. If you want to blame a country, you should blame France as they actually sent fighter jets deep into Libya to bomb his facilities. The reason why Gaddaffi lost his power was that the people got inspired by other revolutions at the time in the area and decided to mobilize and take back their country. As long as the people in Iran and North Korea are unarmed and weak, they can't overthrow their governments even if they wanted to. Sticks and clubs are useless against a government which has all the guns. |
You make it sound like we only wanted to protect civilians and didn't care about the outcome of that conflict. Surely you don't buy that. We were clearly siding with and helping the people who overthrew him and killed him.
It's not always a great thing when a government gets overthrown. The people of Iran overthrew the Shah. That didn't work out too well. There are also a lot of people that hate the United States and support Al Qaeda that have their own ideas about how the country should be governed. By overthrowing someone like Gadafi, it makes it easier for the Muslim Brotherhood to take over.
It's hard to see the leaders of countries like Iran and North Korea looking at what happened to Gadafi, and thinking that following in his footsteps is the way to go. You may argue that the leaders of those countries are much harder to overthrow, but if they're paranoid like a lot of crazy leaders, then I wouldn't be surprised if they do worry about being overthrown and even killed. Hugo Chavez wasn't the only paranoid leader out there. |
The problem with that type of thinking is that the US can't determine the will of the people on who they want for their next leaders. As much influence as we try to buy such as giving Egypt $1 billion in military aid each year, the governments and people of the country have their own type of thinking on how they want to rule their own country. Buying influence can only go so far, and the more we meddle with their government, the more hardlining politicians want nothing to do with us. If the people want to elect a dictator and live under their brutal rule, so be it. But once they threaten our interests and country, its on. |
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non-player zealot
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Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 21365
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | non-player zealot wrote: | | How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel.... and push those R eaters back to the Great Wall of China, and take it apart brick by brick, and nuke them back into the (bleep) Stone Age River?!! OOOOH! OOOOOOOOOOOH! |
The Chinese army decimated our forces in the Korean War once we passed the Yalu River, that's why. If China weren't there we would have dealt with NK a long time ago. |
He was quoting Sam Kinison. |
Good answer..... Good answer.... I'm gonna be watchin you...
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doughboy90650
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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do they really want that .....
they launch missile that probably won't make it here. Maybe Hawaii should be nervous. But if they did happen to make it, you know North Korea will end up on the moon. |
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| doughboy90650 wrote: | do they really want that .....
they launch missile that probably won't make it here. Maybe Hawaii should be nervous. But if they did happen to make it, you know North Korea will end up on the moon. |
the line of thinking about this is that their missiles can't reach our west coast. Well... what if they they don't launch it from their mainland? What if they have movable ones that they could transport somewhere closer to the continental US? oh lets say Venenzuela which is almost half the distance to LA than NK is. Or another communist country like Cuba? If they could sneak one to Cuba they could target NY and Washington, the distance may be too close for our defense missiles to effectively shoot an incoming out without preventing fall out. I know its way out there but this is a crazy world.... |
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Fallout
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Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 7626
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | doughboy90650 wrote: | do they really want that .....
they launch missile that probably won't make it here. Maybe Hawaii should be nervous. But if they did happen to make it, you know North Korea will end up on the moon. |
the line of thinking about this is that their missiles can't reach our west coast. Well... what if they they don't launch it from their mainland? What if they have movable ones that they could transport somewhere closer to the continental US? oh lets say Venenzuela which is almost half the distance to LA than NK is. Or another communist country like Cuba? If they could sneak one to Cuba they could target NY and Washington, the distance may be too close for our defense missiles to effectively shoot an incoming out without preventing fall out. I know its way out there but this is a crazy world.... |
Those countries will not help NK, letting NK launch a nuke on their soil is the same as declaring war on the US.
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Roger O. Thornhill
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Joined: 16 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | doughboy90650 wrote: | do they really want that .....
they launch missile that probably won't make it here. Maybe Hawaii should be nervous. But if they did happen to make it, you know North Korea will end up on the moon. |
the line of thinking about this is that their missiles can't reach our west coast. Well... what if they they don't launch it from their mainland? What if they have movable ones that they could transport somewhere closer to the continental US? oh lets say Venenzuela which is almost half the distance to LA than NK is. Or another communist country like Cuba? If they could sneak one to Cuba they could target NY and Washington, the distance may be too close for our defense missiles to effectively shoot an incoming out without preventing fall out. I know its way out there but this is a crazy world.... |
What if Dr. Evil steals N.K.'s nuke and detonates it in Earth's core? |
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Gatekeeper
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