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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:08 am Post subject: Trading Partners Summary (please don't merge Mods) |
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Enjoy LG...
Teams with a lot of cap space and could likely be trade partners with the assumption the salary cap will be about $58M in 2013/14. (Arranged in order of cap space)
Hawks
$40M in cap space
- Draft picks #17, 18, 47, and 50
- Hawks have no real pieces to trade the Lakers but can easily take on Pau's entire contract.
- The key will be if they can re-sign Josh Smith. If not, Ferry (GM) will take a long look at pairing Pau up with Horford.
- I think Atlanta might be willing to take Pau in exchange for a combo of one 1st rd pick and one 2nd rd pick
Jazz
$33M in cap space
- Draft picks #14, 21, and 46
- Al Jefferson & Milsap are FA's. Favors & Kanter are ready for starter minutes. Adding Pau would be great, solid vet to mentor these guys plus he can play both PF & C.
- Utah could take on Pau's entire contract and send back the #21 and #46 pick
Pelicans
$23M in cap space
- Draft pick #5
- Interesting team, if the Pelicans get a top lotto pick and end up grabbing Trey Burke will Geivis Vasquez be on the market?
- Eric Gordon is on the block but would hamper the Lakers 2014 plan.
Pistons
$23M in cap space
- Draft picks #7 and #56
- The only attractive asset the Pistons have that they might be willing to trade is Rodney Stuckey and of course the POS Charlie V.
- Adding a guy like Pau may help them retain Jose Calderon. At the same time add a vet who can help out Monroe & Drummond.
Mavericks
$20M in cap space
- Draft picks #13 & #44
- Will Mark Cuban be willing to deal w/the Lakers if he fails to land Dwight? Will he gamble and pair up Dirk & Pau? The one trade piece that I think Lakers might be open to is Shawn Marion. He's the not the same Matrix but he had great chemistry with Nash & D'Antoni from the Phoenix day. Plus he will be an expiring contract, can a re-union happen?
Rockets
$20M in cap space
- Draft pick #34
- The mad scientist Daryl Morey finally put it together, he has youth, a young star, and lots of cap room.
- Rockets will go after Dwight but if they fail will Daryl look at his former fascination Pau?
- Will the Rockets re-visit the idea of adding Pau to this team? Can Pau & Harden be Pau & Kobe? Maybe it will interest Morey enough to make deal since he has plenty of youthful and contract friendly trading chips.
Bobcats
$18M in cap space
- Draft pick #2 overall
- Likely players on the block would be Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas
- I think Ben Gordon could be an interesting target especially if Mitch can ask for a future #1 pick. Gordon might be small but could flourish in D'Antoni's system. He's a pretty good career 3pt shooter @ 40% and will make about $6M less than Pau
Bucks
$18M in cap space
- Draft picks #15 and #43
- Most tradeable asset is Monta Ellis only if he exercises his player option to stay. Lakers need a Monta Ellis. An athletic player that can create his own shot.
- Bucks will likely force Lakers to take a garbage player in any deal involving Monta for Pau. A front court of Pau/Sanders/Ilyasova is formidable.
- Brandon Jennings is a long shot as Bucks can take a wait and see approach.
Kings
$18M in cap space
- Draft picks #6 and #36
- Kings have the versatile slasher/athletes the Lakers want: Tyreke Evans, Salmons, Marcus Thornton
- Maybe a Pau for Tyreke & Salmons may work as both are really on 1 year deals and won't hinder the 2014 plan plus they can spell Kobe for a while and play SF if the Lakers do amnesty MWP.
Remember Larry Coon's potential Amnesty savings:
Steve Blake($4 million salary): $17 million savings
Metta World Peace ($7.7 million salary): $31.4 million savings
Pau Gasol ($19.3 million salary): $67 million savings
Kobe Bryant ($30.45 million salary): $85 million savings _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate
Last edited by KobeRe-Loaded on Mon May 06, 2013 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KobeDunk Retired Number
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 26849
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Eric Gordon IF healthy is very intriguing and probably the level of player we would get in 2014, look at whats really avaiable for us to grab.
Dwight
Hill
Kobe
Gordon
Nash
Not bad. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Thanks OP. Good post. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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KobeDunk Retired Number
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 26849
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:22 am Post subject: |
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question ... based on this:
Steve Blake($4 million salary): $17 million savings
Metta World Peace ($7.7 million salary): $31.4 million savings
Pau Gasol ($19.3 million salary): $67 million savings
Kobe Bryant ($30.45 million salary): $85 million savings
_________________
Per Mr. Larry Coon: Potential tax savings .... $85 million, Kobe amnesty they'd be out of the tax completely, and regain access to the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade.
_________________
IF they amnesty Pau and Metta walks thats a saving of $98Mil right? Thats more than what a Kobe amnesty would save them....correct?
Would doing an amnesty on Pau and hoping Metta walks put us back under the cap? Would it give us the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade? Does that put us in a position to offer a player a max deal? Oh lets say CP3 or Jack or anyone who's out there unrestricted this summer? |
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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:27 am Post subject: |
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KobeDunk wrote: | question ... based on this:
Steve Blake($4 million salary): $17 million savings
Metta World Peace ($7.7 million salary): $31.4 million savings
Pau Gasol ($19.3 million salary): $67 million savings
Kobe Bryant ($30.45 million salary): $85 million savings
_________________
Per Mr. Larry Coon: Potential tax savings .... $85 million, Kobe amnesty they'd be out of the tax completely, and regain access to the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade.
_________________
IF they amnesty Pau and Metta walks thats a saving of $98Mil right? Thats more than what a Kobe amnesty would save them....correct?
Would doing an amnesty on Pau and hoping Metta walks put us back under the cap? Would it give us the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade? Does that put us in a position to offer a player a max deal? Oh lets say CP3 or Jack or anyone who's out there unrestricted this summer? |
Great question. I think if the Lakers can unload Pau to a team like Atlanta or Utah or someone that can take on his entire contract and then amnesty MWP. The Lakers will only have about $49M in commitments before trying to re-sign Dwight & Earl Clark and should be able to use MLE, Bi-Annual, and do S&T's..... or it could just all be lumped into the Trade Exemption generated in a Pau deal?
Larry Coon, please clarify.
Assumed cap commitments if Pau traded just for picks & MWP amnesty
Kobe $30.5M
Nash $9.3M
Blake $4M
Hill $3.5M
Duhon $1.5M (BUYOUT)
Total $48.8M _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate |
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cathy78 Star Player
Joined: 21 Jan 2013 Posts: 1415
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:59 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Thanks OP. Good post. | But still somewhat depressing... |
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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:16 am Post subject: |
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cathy78 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Thanks OP. Good post. | But still somewhat depressing... |
It's realistic. I posted facts and facts point to the Lakers wanting to take back considerably less money in any Pau trade. _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate |
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Atticus Star Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2011 Posts: 2558
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:27 am Post subject: |
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KobeDunk wrote: | question ... based on this:
Steve Blake($4 million salary): $17 million savings
Metta World Peace ($7.7 million salary): $31.4 million savings
Pau Gasol ($19.3 million salary): $67 million savings
Kobe Bryant ($30.45 million salary): $85 million savings
_________________
Per Mr. Larry Coon: Potential tax savings .... $85 million, Kobe amnesty they'd be out of the tax completely, and regain access to the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade.
_________________
IF they amnesty Pau and Metta walks thats a saving of $98Mil right? Thats more than what a Kobe amnesty would save them....correct?
Would doing an amnesty on Pau and hoping Metta walks put us back under the cap? Would it give us the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade? Does that put us in a position to offer a player a max deal? Oh lets say CP3 or Jack or anyone who's out there unrestricted this summer? |
I don't know this is the correct answer for sure, but just thinking mathematically your calculation of saving 98mil doesn't make sense.
Keep in mind that the tax scales up. The more you are above the cap, the bigger your multiplier is. Those estimates that Larry Coon gave were if we kept the entire roster but only cut the specified player.
In other words if you amnesty Pau first you save the amount Coon quoted. But then you'd save far less than 30 mil when Metta walks because your tax multiplier isn't nearly as high anymore.
Another way to look at it is: Pau and Metta make a combined $26-27mil while Kobe makes $30mil. How could getting rid of Pau and metta save us 13 mil more than getting rid of Kobe.
***EDIT: By my math (again not sure if the cap works this way directly) we'd save $76.5mil (including taxes) getting rid of Pau and Metta for nothing. Assuming the tax will scale down proportionately with Kobe's hypothetical salary cut.
30/85 = 27/x
x=22
30 = Kobe salary loss
85 = Savings from cutting Kobe
27 = Pau and Metta salary loss
x = Savings from getting rid of Pau and Metta
Last edited by Atticus on Mon May 06, 2013 9:54 am; edited 3 times in total |
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SDLakersFan Star Player
Joined: 01 Apr 2012 Posts: 2044
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:31 am Post subject: |
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I remember Ron saying he was considering opting out. After those troll comments he made assumably at Dwight, lets hope he really is planning on walking. Then we'd still have the amnesty in the holster. |
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thereal1 Star Player
Joined: 21 Nov 2005 Posts: 2329
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:41 am Post subject: |
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SDLakersFan wrote: | I remember Ron saying he was considering opting out. After those troll comments he made assumably at Dwight, lets hope he really is planning on walking. Then we'd still have the amnesty in the holster. |
No way MWP opts out without a handshake deal with someone. No way anyone pays him more than 7.7 mil a year. Lakers would love MWP at 4 or 5 mil not so much at the higher amount. I love MWP, i hope he does opt out and give the Lakers a break financially, but I doubt that happens. |
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KobeDunk Retired Number
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 26849
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:43 am Post subject: |
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KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | KobeDunk wrote: | question ... based on this:
Steve Blake($4 million salary): $17 million savings
Metta World Peace ($7.7 million salary): $31.4 million savings
Pau Gasol ($19.3 million salary): $67 million savings
Kobe Bryant ($30.45 million salary): $85 million savings
_________________
Per Mr. Larry Coon: Potential tax savings .... $85 million, Kobe amnesty they'd be out of the tax completely, and regain access to the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade.
_________________
IF they amnesty Pau and Metta walks thats a saving of $98Mil right? Thats more than what a Kobe amnesty would save them....correct?
Would doing an amnesty on Pau and hoping Metta walks put us back under the cap? Would it give us the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade? Does that put us in a position to offer a player a max deal? Oh lets say CP3 or Jack or anyone who's out there unrestricted this summer? |
Great question. I think if the Lakers can unload Pau to a team like Atlanta or Utah or someone that can take on his entire contract and then amnesty MWP. The Lakers will only have about $49M in commitments before trying to re-sign Dwight & Earl Clark and should be able to use MLE, Bi-Annual, and do S&T's..... or it could just all be lumped into the Trade Exemption generated in a Pau deal?
Larry Coon, please clarify.
Assumed cap commitments if Pau traded just for picks & MWP amnesty
Kobe $30.5M
Nash $9.3M
Blake $4M
Hill $3.5M
Duhon $1.5M (BUYOUT)
Total $48.8M |
if this is the case it clearly puts us in position to offer a top player like CP3 a max deal. Why is everyone saying that getting CP3 is nearly impossible then? If this is true its very possible. |
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Atticus Star Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2011 Posts: 2558
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:46 am Post subject: |
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KobeDunk wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | KobeDunk wrote: | question ... based on this:
Steve Blake($4 million salary): $17 million savings
Metta World Peace ($7.7 million salary): $31.4 million savings
Pau Gasol ($19.3 million salary): $67 million savings
Kobe Bryant ($30.45 million salary): $85 million savings
_________________
Per Mr. Larry Coon: Potential tax savings .... $85 million, Kobe amnesty they'd be out of the tax completely, and regain access to the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade.
_________________
IF they amnesty Pau and Metta walks thats a saving of $98Mil right? Thats more than what a Kobe amnesty would save them....correct?
Would doing an amnesty on Pau and hoping Metta walks put us back under the cap? Would it give us the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade? Does that put us in a position to offer a player a max deal? Oh lets say CP3 or Jack or anyone who's out there unrestricted this summer? |
Great question. I think if the Lakers can unload Pau to a team like Atlanta or Utah or someone that can take on his entire contract and then amnesty MWP. The Lakers will only have about $49M in commitments before trying to re-sign Dwight & Earl Clark and should be able to use MLE, Bi-Annual, and do S&T's..... or it could just all be lumped into the Trade Exemption generated in a Pau deal?
Larry Coon, please clarify.
Assumed cap commitments if Pau traded just for picks & MWP amnesty
Kobe $30.5M
Nash $9.3M
Blake $4M
Hill $3.5M
Duhon $1.5M (BUYOUT)
Total $48.8M |
if this is the case it clearly puts us in position to offer a top player like CP3 a max deal. Why is everyone saying that getting CP3 is nearly impossible then? If this is true its very possible. |
It's not possible because 1) being at 48mil isn't enough to offer CP3 a max contract, and 2) That calculation doesn't include Dwight Howard's ~ $18-20mil contact. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Atticus wrote: | KobeDunk wrote: | question ... based on this:
Steve Blake($4 million salary): $17 million savings
Metta World Peace ($7.7 million salary): $31.4 million savings
Pau Gasol ($19.3 million salary): $67 million savings
Kobe Bryant ($30.45 million salary): $85 million savings
_________________
Per Mr. Larry Coon: Potential tax savings .... $85 million, Kobe amnesty they'd be out of the tax completely, and regain access to the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade.
_________________
IF they amnesty Pau and Metta walks thats a saving of $98Mil right? Thats more than what a Kobe amnesty would save them....correct?
Would doing an amnesty on Pau and hoping Metta walks put us back under the cap? Would it give us the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade? Does that put us in a position to offer a player a max deal? Oh lets say CP3 or Jack or anyone who's out there unrestricted this summer? |
I don't know this is the correct answer for sure, but just thinking mathematically your calculation of saving 98mil doesn't make sense.
Keep in mind that the tax scales up. The more you are above the cap, the bigger your multiplier is. Those estimates that Larry Coon gave were if we kept the entire roster but only cut the specified player.
In other words if you amnesty Pau first you save the amount Coon quoted. But then you'd save far less than 30 mil when Metta walks because your tax multiplier isn't nearly as high anymore.
Another way to look at it is: Pau and Metta make a combined $26-27mil while Kobe makes $30mil. How could getting rid of Pau and metta save us 13 mil more than getting rid of Kobe.
***EDIT: By my math (again not sure if the cap works this way directly) we'd save $76.5mil (including taxes) getting rid of Pau and Metta for nothing. Assuming the tax will scale down proportionately with Kobe's hypothetical salary cut.
30/85 = 27/x
x=22
30 = Kobe salary loss
80 = Savings from cutting Kobe
27 = Pau and Metta salary loss
x = Savings from getting rid of Pau and Metta |
Yes, the tax is graduated by every 5 mil over the limit, so when you talk about what amnestying a player would save, you have to figure how far up the chain the team is, and where that salary would fall. For example, if you're 30 mil over the tax, and amnesty a guy making 10 mil, half of his salary would be taxed at 4.25* (25-30 mil over), and half at 3.75* (20-25 mil over), meaning your savings would be at an average of 4*.
If Dwight re-signs, LA is going to be somewhere around 30 mil over the threshold, meaning their tax liability is going to be somewhere around 85 million. And that's before using the MMLE or re-signing Clark! Pau and MWP make a combined 27 mil that year, so their share of that would be about 80 million (if you take their salary out, LA is roughly 3 mil over the threshold, which would be taxed at 1.5*) _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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Quick question, of the list I made. Am I missing anyone notable?
BTW - don't mention the T-Wolves. Kahn was the one w/the man crush for Pau, don't think Flip feels the same way. _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144462 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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I would include the Bucks _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | I would include the Bucks |
_________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | I would include the Bucks |
I agree, done! _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
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mhan00 Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32059
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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None of those destinations do anything to improve us as a team. |
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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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mhan00 wrote: | None of those destinations do anything to improve us as a team. |
Glad you realize that trading Pau to both improve and get cap relief will be close to asking Mitch to move mountains.
If you look carefully through the list, you will find little treasures. _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
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STiG909 Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Posts: 1687 Location: Inland Empire
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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A B. Gordan and T. Thomas for Pau trade would actually make a ton of sense for this team. Kobe would move over to the 3 wih Gordon at the 2. Thomas could play the 4 or the 5 in D'Antoni's system. The only thing I don't like about it is we'd be committed to some pretty ugly contracts. If they didn't pan out, we'd be stuck for a while. |
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ant3x7 Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 340
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Atticus wrote: | KobeDunk wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | KobeDunk wrote: | question ... based on this:
Steve Blake($4 million salary): $17 million savings
Metta World Peace ($7.7 million salary): $31.4 million savings
Pau Gasol ($19.3 million salary): $67 million savings
Kobe Bryant ($30.45 million salary): $85 million savings
_________________
Per Mr. Larry Coon: Potential tax savings .... $85 million, Kobe amnesty they'd be out of the tax completely, and regain access to the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade.
_________________
IF they amnesty Pau and Metta walks thats a saving of $98Mil right? Thats more than what a Kobe amnesty would save them....correct?
Would doing an amnesty on Pau and hoping Metta walks put us back under the cap? Would it give us the full Mid-Level, the Bi-Annual, and the ability to receive players via sign-and-trade? Does that put us in a position to offer a player a max deal? Oh lets say CP3 or Jack or anyone who's out there unrestricted this summer? |
Great question. I think if the Lakers can unload Pau to a team like Atlanta or Utah or someone that can take on his entire contract and then amnesty MWP. The Lakers will only have about $49M in commitments before trying to re-sign Dwight & Earl Clark and should be able to use MLE, Bi-Annual, and do S&T's..... or it could just all be lumped into the Trade Exemption generated in a Pau deal?
Larry Coon, please clarify.
Assumed cap commitments if Pau traded just for picks & MWP amnesty
Kobe $30.5M
Nash $9.3M
Blake $4M
Hill $3.5M
Duhon $1.5M (BUYOUT)
Total $48.8M |
if this is the case it clearly puts us in position to offer a top player like CP3 a max deal. Why is everyone saying that getting CP3 is nearly impossible then? If this is true its very possible. |
It's not possible because 1) being at 48mil isn't enough to offer CP3 a max contract, and 2) That calculation doesn't include Dwight Howard's ~ $18-20mil contact. |
Yes, unless Dwight's re-signed or his rights are renounced, he'll count as $18-20M on the Lakers salary.
The thing about the full MLE is that if a team uses it, it's effectively hard-capping the team at $74M, meaning after they use the exception, their payroll CAN'T EXCEED $74M the entire year (the same is true if a team is trying to do a S&T and receiving the player). So that means the team would have to be at least $69M or below to even consider using the $5M MLE, and even then, your calculations doesn't include cap holds for the other roster spots ($500k ea) as well as your estimations for re-signing both Dwight and Clark. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144462 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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And regarding Howard's hold, I think it is 150% of his current contract.
Even if Monta opts out, I would trade Pau to the Bucks for a $19.3 mil TPE. The Bucks would still have around $5 mil and the MLE if they resign/match Jennings. They could bring in a decent player for that and also for the MLE.
Gasol
Sanders
Ilyasova
?
Jennings
Not a bad core, better than before.
And the Lakers would have a $19.3 mil gift certificate to go shopping all offseason and during the season up to the trade deadline. You never know who might become available. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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dawglaker Star Player
Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 1890 Location: reppin Garden Grove
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Corey Brewer from DEN is a ufa , long athletic wing defender who can shoot _________________ "I didn't mean to walk in the shower with him. Yeah, I walked in the shower. I'm not a homosexual, but Kobe - he had no clothes on." - Ron Artest |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14904 Location: Earth
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | And regarding Howard's hold, I think it is 150% of his current contract.
Even if Monta opts out, I would trade Pau to the Bucks for a $19.3 mil TPE. The Bucks would still have around $5 mil and the MLE if they resign/match Jennings. They could bring in a decent player for that and also for the MLE.
Gasol
Sanders
Ilyasova
?
Jennings
Not a bad core, better than before.
And the Lakers would have a $19.3 mil gift certificate to go shopping all offseason and during the season up to the trade deadline. You never know who might become available. |
Good idea. I'd prefer to go shopping this off season than the next. |
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Lakersneuron Star Player
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 4450
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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good post OP. _________________ "I don’t give a [expletive] what you say. If I go out there and miss game winners, and people say, 'Kobe choked, or Kobe is seven for whatever in pressure situations.' Well, [expletive] you. Because I don’t play for your [expletive] approval." |
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