All-Time League 2013 General Discussion
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Jeffs
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject:

Looking at the WIS stats, DRob has a 4% higher usage percentage (28-24) and about 5% higher rebound rate (35-30). He also has higher steal% and block%. All Kareem really leads is eFG%, defense (slightly) and assist% (very slightly). By the numbers, I can see why DRob is producing more per-minute than Kareem. The reason Kareem has the salary edge is that he played an additional 7 minutes per game.

Now, mind you, I know that Kareem was a far superior player. I think we all know that. However, like I said, this simulator runs on numbers, not scouting reports...
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject:

Jeffs wrote:
Looking at the WIS stats, DRob has a 4% higher usage percentage (28-24) and about 5% higher rebound rate (35-30). He also has higher steal% and block%. All Kareem really leads is eFG%, defense (slightly) and assist% (very slightly). By the numbers, I can see why DRob is producing more per-minute than Kareem. The reason Kareem has the salary edge is that he played an additional 7 minutes per game.

Now, mind you, I know that Kareem was a far superior player. I think we all know that. However, like I said, this simulator runs on numbers, not scouting reports...


A very important early discovery was that I needed to break down the salary per minute just as an opening sort. You still have to compare other variables, but you find really quickly that there are 6 million players who are superior to 7 mil players.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject:

But those 7 minutes that I can play Kareem and you can't play Drob should make a fair difference. It doesn't... or at least it doesn't seem to.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject:

Did I get my roster in on time?
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Did I get my roster in on time?


You're good.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Did I get my roster in on time?


You're good.


He was one minute late. His opponent may remove any player from his roster...
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Jeffs
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:01 am    Post subject:

Jeffs wrote:
Just realized I had been simming with the wrong Adrian Dantley. The SimLeague combines player seasons, while the stand-alone, game-by-game SIM does not. Is there a way to get the Adrian Dantley I actually wanted on my team?

Not the end of the world if I can't, but I'd have to adjust a bit going from a player with a usage of 21 to a player with a usage of 30...


GT, while I see you're online, could you clarify this please?
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Jeffs

I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT
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Jeffs
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
But those 7 minutes that I can play Kareem and you can't play Drob should make a fair difference. It doesn't... or at least it doesn't seem to.


You're right, and I have no explanation for the disparity between expected numbers and the actual ones. Maybe 24 was right when he hypothesized that modern players have an inherent advantage.
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Jeffs

I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT
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1since71
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:42 am    Post subject:

as far as KAJ is concerned it also matters who is on the court with KAJ.Another player might be taking touches away from him.
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MysticWang
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:30 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
Looking at the WIS stats, DRob has a 4% higher usage percentage (28-24) and about 5% higher rebound rate (35-30). He also has higher steal% and block%. All Kareem really leads is eFG%, defense (slightly) and assist% (very slightly). By the numbers, I can see why DRob is producing more per-minute than Kareem. The reason Kareem has the salary edge is that he played an additional 7 minutes per game.

Now, mind you, I know that Kareem was a far superior player. I think we all know that. However, like I said, this simulator runs on numbers, not scouting reports...


A very important early discovery was that I needed to break down the salary per minute just as an opening sort. You still have to compare other variables, but you find really quickly that there are 6 million players who are superior to 7 mil players.


Exactly. While salary per minute is not the be-all end-all, it's the best way to begin to sort.
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MysticWang
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
FYI, it appears assists have no proactive effect on the game. The sim determines via usage which player ultimately has the possession, and whether they shoot, get fouled or turn the ball over. If they shoot and make it, then an algorithm decides whether it was assisted or not, and if so, by whom, based on assist %. Basically, assists are just window dressing, backfilled to make the stat sheet look "right".


This had me worried as I have a couple of players with great assist rates. So I did some digging. It looks like assist rates are the counter balance to the defensive ratings (to what degree, I do not know). Here's a snippet I found...

Quote:
The chance that a player has of making the shot is based on his shooting percentage, the assist rates of his teammates, his defenderís stop percentage (captured by defensive rating) and to a lesser extent the other four playerís stop percentages and the block rates of all five defensive players.
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Vishnu
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject:

MysticWang wrote:
24 wrote:
FYI, it appears assists have no proactive effect on the game. The sim determines via usage which player ultimately has the possession, and whether they shoot, get fouled or turn the ball over. If they shoot and make it, then an algorithm decides whether it was assisted or not, and if so, by whom, based on assist %. Basically, assists are just window dressing, backfilled to make the stat sheet look "right".


This had me worried as I have a couple of players with great assist rates. So I did some digging. It looks like assist rates are the counter balance to the defensive ratings (to what degree, I do not know). Here's a snippet I found...

Quote:
The chance that a player has of making the shot is based on his shooting percentage, the assist rates of his teammates, his defenderís stop percentage (captured by defensive rating) and to a lesser extent the other four playerís stop percentages and the block rates of all five defensive players.


That's good to hear since I have a few guys with great assist rates. It was one of the things I tried to focus on.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:54 am    Post subject:

Jeffs wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
Just realized I had been simming with the wrong Adrian Dantley. The SimLeague combines player seasons, while the stand-alone, game-by-game SIM does not. Is there a way to get the Adrian Dantley I actually wanted on my team?

Not the end of the world if I can't, but I'd have to adjust a bit going from a player with a usage of 21 to a player with a usage of 30...


GT, while I see you're online, could you clarify this please?


This definitely needs clarification.

The split seasons are accounted differently in the sim matchup team builder (the one without comprehensive stats) VS the regular draft team builder (the one we used to get comprehensive stats). Basically in the draft center, the split seasons are viewed as two seasons with identical stats while in the sim matchup team builder, each split has it's own unique stats based on the players' time with each respective team during the split season. I'm guessing that the split should be accounted for as a single season, except you cannot sim a split season's statistics if that falls as their fourth best season.
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Jeffs
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject:

^ That's exactly the problem I ran into. If the split had been his 2nd or 3rd best season, it would be easy to ignore the discrepancy between the two lists, but the split happened to be during his 4th best season in this case. If I have to use his 5th best season (4th best on the sim we're using), that's fine - I just need some clarification so that I know which player I am simming.
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Jeffs

I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject:

MysticWang wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
Just realized I had been simming with the wrong Adrian Dantley. The SimLeague combines player seasons, while the stand-alone, game-by-game SIM does not. Is there a way to get the Adrian Dantley I actually wanted on my team?

Not the end of the world if I can't, but I'd have to adjust a bit going from a player with a usage of 21 to a player with a usage of 30...


GT, while I see you're online, could you clarify this please?


This definitely needs clarification.

The split seasons are accounted differently in the sim matchup team builder (the one without comprehensive stats) VS the regular draft team builder (the one we used to get comprehensive stats). Basically in the draft center, the split seasons are viewed as two seasons with identical stats while in the sim matchup team builder, each split has it's own unique stats based on the players' time with each respective team during the split season. I'm guessing that the split should be accounted for as a single season, except you cannot sim a split season's statistics if that falls as their fourth best season.


Ugh. I think what I'll do is use either the 3rd highest salary or the 5th highest salary if that's the case...whichever one is closer to the production level in the 4th highest salary season.

I'm open to suggestions though. This one's a conundrum with no obvious answer.
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Vishnu
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject:

I vote for 3rd best season since it happened to one of my better players
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MysticWang
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:15 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
MysticWang wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
Just realized I had been simming with the wrong Adrian Dantley. The SimLeague combines player seasons, while the stand-alone, game-by-game SIM does not. Is there a way to get the Adrian Dantley I actually wanted on my team?

Not the end of the world if I can't, but I'd have to adjust a bit going from a player with a usage of 21 to a player with a usage of 30...


GT, while I see you're online, could you clarify this please?


This definitely needs clarification.

The split seasons are accounted differently in the sim matchup team builder (the one without comprehensive stats) VS the regular draft team builder (the one we used to get comprehensive stats). Basically in the draft center, the split seasons are viewed as two seasons with identical stats while in the sim matchup team builder, each split has it's own unique stats based on the players' time with each respective team during the split season. I'm guessing that the split should be accounted for as a single season, except you cannot sim a split season's statistics if that falls as their fourth best season.


Ugh. I think what I'll do is use either the 3rd highest salary or the 5th highest salary if that's the case...whichever one is closer to the production level in the 4th highest salary season.

I'm open to suggestions though. This one's a conundrum with no obvious answer.


I can't imagine there being many players with this problem, although Jeffs has noted his with Dantley.

Something I recommend users to do is copy and paste the year of the player they are using so when you are building a team during a sim you can do a quick check with a thread instead of trying to figure out if they have split seasons in the team builder. And the users can double check to make sure you are using the correct years as well. Something like this...

PG: (99-00) Terrell Brandon - 28 mpg, (11-12) Rajon Rondo - 20 MPG
SG: (06-07) Manu Ginobili - 25 mpg, (10-11) Gerald Wallace - 15 MPG, (94-95) Steve Kerr - 8 MPG
SF: (98-99) Grant Hill - 37 MPG, (77-78) Bobby Jones 11 MPG
PF: (97-98) Karl Malone 37 MPG, (03-04) Carlos Boozer 6 MPG, (77-78) Bobby Jones 5 MPG
C: (06-07) Amar'e Stoudemire 30 MPG, (12-13) Javale McGee 18 MPG, (10-11) Andrew Bynum 0 MPG
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Vishnu
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject:

It happened to Walt Bellamy for me. I thought I was getting his 65-66 season but when doing it game-by-game, it's his 64-65 season. His 3rd best season is 64-64.
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MysticWang
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject:

Vishnu wrote:
It happened to Walt Bellamy for me. I thought I was getting his 65-66 season but when doing it game-by-game, it's his 64-65 season. His 3rd best season is 64-64.


You're right. Luckily for you, his fifth best season is almost identical in total salary and is even better in per minute salary that his split season. I think in your case it would make most sense to take his 5th best season.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject:

MysticWang wrote:
Vishnu wrote:
It happened to Walt Bellamy for me. I thought I was getting his 65-66 season but when doing it game-by-game, it's his 64-65 season. His 3rd best season is 64-64.


You're right. Luckily for you, his fifth best season is almost identical in total salary and is even better in per minute salary that his split season. I think in your case it would make most sense to take his 5th best season.


Yes, I'll use the 64-65 season for Bellamy.

Thoughts on Dantley?
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MysticWang
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject:

Jeffs wrote:
^ That's exactly the problem I ran into. If the split had been his 2nd or 3rd best season, it would be easy to ignore the discrepancy between the two lists, but the split happened to be during his 4th best season in this case. If I have to use his 5th best season (4th best on the sim we're using), that's fine - I just need some clarification so that I know which player I am simming.


Hmmm, aside from his lower defensive rating, I'd rather have his fifth best season where he is a high efficiency high usage player. Although, I can understand if that doesn't quite fit what you were going for. It's another situation of very similar overall salary but even better salary per minute. I'm fine with whatever direction GT wants to go and what you guys with this situation think is fair, but so far the first two scenarios seem to actually benefit your players to pick their fifth best season.
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Vishnu
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject:

MysticWang wrote:
Vishnu wrote:
It happened to Walt Bellamy for me. I thought I was getting his 65-66 season but when doing it game-by-game, it's his 64-65 season. His 3rd best season is 64-64.


You're right. Luckily for you, his fifth best season is almost identical in total salary and is even better in per minute salary that his split season. I think in your case it would make most sense to take his 5th best season.


that's what I've been simming on in my practice runs. It's not that big a deal for him, but I'm still down for the 3rd best season

edit: alright, it's fine
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject:

Quote:
In the inaugural game of LG's All-Time League, Boston Strong outpaces the Houston Rockets 108-91 as Kobe Bryant & Dominique Wilkins combine for 48 points on 20-31 from the field and Nate Thurmond grabs 16 boards. Charles Barkley and Dwyane Wade each had 13 for the Rockets in a losing effort.

Houston Rockets 91
Boston Strong 108


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Vishnu
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:40 am    Post subject:

yikes. awful first game
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject:

I'm just going to go with the 5th best season then, to avoid subjectivity. I'm sorry for this dilemma, guys.
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