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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
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 Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The New Orleans Pelicans have signed veteran small forward John Salmons to a free agent contract. |
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frenchbullcho
Star Player
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 5122
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | frenchbullcho wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | frenchbullcho wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lebron did not attack the rim when Duncan was in the game. And there's a reason for that. |
I'll speak for Jim,
"Ok". |
? Disagree with that fact?
I guess people can quibble with "elite" or not, which is always the case around here, but Duncan is def in the top 5-6 defensive centers/big men. |
Haha you didn't get the subtle jab.
I agree, Duncan in my opinion is still an elite defender. |
Maybe he got it but is not as childish as you are
Also i do have a FT job which pays me. I am not here obliged to answer everybody within couple of minutes |
You average 19.67 posts per day and you just joined this fourm less than a year ago and already passed my count. Are you really sure you're working?
Last edited by frenchbullcho on Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim99187
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| frenchbullcho wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | frenchbullcho wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | frenchbullcho wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lebron did not attack the rim when Duncan was in the game. And there's a reason for that. |
I'll speak for Jim,
"Ok". |
? Disagree with that fact?
I guess people can quibble with "elite" or not, which is always the case around here, but Duncan is def in the top 5-6 defensive centers/big men. |
Haha you didn't get the subtle jab.
I agree, Duncan in my opinion is still an elite defender. |
Maybe he got it but is not as childish as you are
Also i do have a FT job which pays me. I am not here obliged to answer everybody within couple of minutes |
You average 19.67 posts per day and you just joined this fourm less than a year ago and already passed my count. Are you really sure you're working? |
lol so my post count here is indication of i work full time or not?
PM me if you want to further chat about this as I don't want to ruin the quality of this forum by taking subtle jabs at people i don't know over the internet |
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frenchbullcho
Star Player
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 5122
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | frenchbullcho wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | frenchbullcho wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | frenchbullcho wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lebron did not attack the rim when Duncan was in the game. And there's a reason for that. |
I'll speak for Jim,
"Ok". |
? Disagree with that fact?
I guess people can quibble with "elite" or not, which is always the case around here, but Duncan is def in the top 5-6 defensive centers/big men. |
Haha you didn't get the subtle jab.
I agree, Duncan in my opinion is still an elite defender. |
Maybe he got it but is not as childish as you are
Also i do have a FT job which pays me. I am not here obliged to answer everybody within couple of minutes |
You average 19.67 posts per day and you just joined this fourm less than a year ago and already passed my count. Are you really sure you're working? |
lol so my post count here is indication of i work full time or not? |
Not necessarily, but you do realize my subtle jab was not about you being here at the moment, right? |
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Jim99187
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| frenchbullcho wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | frenchbullcho wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | frenchbullcho wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | frenchbullcho wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lebron did not attack the rim when Duncan was in the game. And there's a reason for that. |
I'll speak for Jim,
"Ok". |
? Disagree with that fact?
I guess people can quibble with "elite" or not, which is always the case around here, but Duncan is def in the top 5-6 defensive centers/big men. |
Haha you didn't get the subtle jab.
I agree, Duncan in my opinion is still an elite defender. |
Maybe he got it but is not as childish as you are
Also i do have a FT job which pays me. I am not here obliged to answer everybody within couple of minutes |
You average 19.67 posts per day and you just joined this fourm less than a year ago and already passed my count. Are you really sure you're working? |
lol so my post count here is indication of i work full time or not? |
Not necessarily, but you do realize my subtle jab was not about you being here at the moment, right? |
yupe |
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K0BEE 2.0
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Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 10949
Location: I wish I knew
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Isn't Salmons someone we could have used at the 3 spot? why didn't we try to sign him? unless the Pelicans overpayed for his services... |
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dmorans1
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Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 11669
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | Isn't Salmons someone we could have used at the 3 spot? why didn't we try to sign him? unless the Pelicans overpayed for his services... |
Dude Salmons agreed to sign with them like a month ago. Plus he sucks why the hell would you want him? Seriously do you just throw names out there for the sake of it? We're fine the way we are. (bleep) deal with it already. |
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K0BEE 2.0
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Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 10949
Location: I wish I knew
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the heads up... I did not know he already had agreed to a contract.....
you are probably right.... maybe Wes becomes a good player for us at the 3 spot and we won't need anyone else. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | Good question, Reddick, Crawford and Dudley would work.
Paul
Kobe
Barnes
Griffin
Jordan |
I realize that Dudley has been traded to the Bucks, so another player (or players) from the Clippers would need to be subbed into your trade scenario for Kobe.
Dudley would have represented approximately 4.3 million in your trade scenario, so Barnes + Bullock is approximately 4.6 million and within a few hundred thousand of the number for Dudley.
Does
Reddick (6.8 million)
Crawford (5.5 million)
Barnes (3.4 million)
Bullock (1.2 million)
for Kobe work under the CBA? |
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dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21458
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | Good question, Reddick, Crawford and Dudley would work.
Paul
Kobe
Barnes
Griffin
Jordan |
I realize that Dudley has been traded to the Bucks, so another player (or players) from the Clippers would need to be subbed into your trade scenario for Kobe.
Dudley would have represented approximately 4.3 million in your trade scenario, so Barnes + Bullock is approximately 4.6 million and within a few hundred thousand of the number for Dudley.
Does
Reddick (6.8 million)
Crawford (5.5 million)
Barnes (3.4 million)
Bullock (1.2 million)
for Kobe work under the CBA? |
(6.8M+5.5M+3.4M+1.2M)*125%+$100,000 = $21,225,000 (this is using the
Not quite.
link
Last edited by dont_be_a_wuss on Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Bledsoe needs to fire his agent. He's about to lose a lot of money if his knees get hurt again. Take what Phx reportedly offered. |
But if his knees don't get hurt again then he is going to make more money on a team of his choice. |
Horrible risk/reward ratio. Lots of rookies are stuck on teams they don't like because of the CBA. you don't walk away from $48m so you can get $52m (and no team is paying him the max since they are watching to see if how body holds up). |
The possible outlay is not 52M. If he signs a 4 year max next summer then his guaranteed payout is in the 63M range for that deal alone. That's not considering an opt-out when the new TV deal hits. Plus he gets to pick his own team. Sure, there is a risk that he can get hurt next season. But there is also a risk that his knee won't last 4 seasons, meaning he can't get another big deal to make up for the year 5 difference in contract values (around $18M).
If he makes it through the season I think he can get a max deal from someone. |
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K0BEE 2.0
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Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 10949
Location: I wish I knew
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| What exactly was the point of the clips trading there 1st round pick when Dudley is a better player then delfino.. what a awful trade. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21458
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Bledsoe needs to fire his agent. He's about to lose a lot of money if his knees get hurt again. Take what Phx reportedly offered. |
But if his knees don't get hurt again then he is going to make more money on a team of his choice. |
Horrible risk/reward ratio. Lots of rookies are stuck on teams they don't like because of the CBA. you don't walk away from $48m so you can get $52m (and no team is paying him the max since they are watching to see if how body holds up). |
The possible outlay is not 52M. If he signs a 4 year max next summer then his guaranteed payout is in the 63M range for that deal alone. That's not considering an opt-out when the new TV deal hits. Plus he gets to pick his own team. Sure, there is a risk that he can get hurt next season. But there is also a risk that his knee won't last 4 seasons, meaning he can't get another big deal to make up for the year 5 difference in contract values (around $18M).
If he makes it through the season I think he can get a max deal from someone. |
Nobody offered him one this season, and the market was very player friendly. Not sure where the confidence originates. |
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mastersworddude
Star Player
Joined: 25 Aug 2012
Posts: 1937
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | Isn't Salmons someone we could have used at the 3 spot? why didn't we try to sign him? unless the Pelicans overpayed for his services... |
Salmons is so bad it hurts. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Bledsoe needs to fire his agent. He's about to lose a lot of money if his knees get hurt again. Take what Phx reportedly offered. |
But if his knees don't get hurt again then he is going to make more money on a team of his choice. |
Horrible risk/reward ratio. Lots of rookies are stuck on teams they don't like because of the CBA. you don't walk away from $48m so you can get $52m (and no team is paying him the max since they are watching to see if how body holds up). |
The possible outlay is not 52M. If he signs a 4 year max next summer then his guaranteed payout is in the 63M range for that deal alone. That's not considering an opt-out when the new TV deal hits. Plus he gets to pick his own team. Sure, there is a risk that he can get hurt next season. But there is also a risk that his knee won't last 4 seasons, meaning he can't get another big deal to make up for the year 5 difference in contract values (around $18M).
If he makes it through the season I think he can get a max deal from someone. |
If his market value was the max it would have been offered, just like Hayward received one and Parsons received a near max.
So your assumption that he would be walking from a max is misplaced IMO.
Again, most if not all of the top players coming off rookie deals stay with the team that owns their Bird rights. It's a part of the business where you get your first guaranteed major contract, then at the ripe age of 27-28 you finally pick the team you want to be on (or you force a trade).
His injury history alone should sober him and his agent up. If he goes down with another injury, he could be losing half of his contract value. Take the reported $48m, and if things don't work out, ask for a trade. You don't gamble on your health especially after you missed half the season with a knee injury.
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Jim99187
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Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Bledsoe needs to fire his agent. He's about to lose a lot of money if his knees get hurt again. Take what Phx reportedly offered. |
But if his knees don't get hurt again then he is going to make more money on a team of his choice. |
Horrible risk/reward ratio. Lots of rookies are stuck on teams they don't like because of the CBA. you don't walk away from $48m so you can get $52m (and no team is paying him the max since they are watching to see if how body holds up). |
The possible outlay is not 52M. If he signs a 4 year max next summer then his guaranteed payout is in the 63M range for that deal alone. That's not considering an opt-out when the new TV deal hits. Plus he gets to pick his own team. Sure, there is a risk that he can get hurt next season. But there is also a risk that his knee won't last 4 seasons, meaning he can't get another big deal to make up for the year 5 difference in contract values (around $18M).
If he makes it through the season I think he can get a max deal from someone. |
If his market value was the max it would have been offered, just like Hayward received one and Parsons received a near max.
So your assumption that he would be walking from a max is misplaced IMO.
Again, most if not all of the top players coming off rookie deals stay with the team that owns their Bird rights. It's a part of the business where you get your first guaranteed major contract, then at the ripe age of 27-28 you finally pick the team you want to be on (or you force a trade).
His injury history alone should sober him and his agent up. If he goes down with another injury, he could be losing half of his contract value. Take the reported $48m, and if things don't work out, ask for a trade. You don't gamble on your health especially after you missed half the season with a knee injury. |
I think bledsoe gets what u r saying but not his agent...rich Paul... How many other contracts he has negotiated? None cause lebron's is max automatically |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Hey at the end of the day it's Bledsoe's body and money. If Paul isn't getting it, and God forbid Bledsoe goes down with an injury, that should stain Paul's reputation. Take the guaranteed money and if you're still discontent, ask for a trade. Yeah, you may be playing in podunk places like Milwaukee but now is not the time to demand location when guaranteed $ should be the predominant issue.
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Bledsoe needs to fire his agent. He's about to lose a lot of money if his knees get hurt again. Take what Phx reportedly offered. |
But if his knees don't get hurt again then he is going to make more money on a team of his choice. |
Horrible risk/reward ratio. Lots of rookies are stuck on teams they don't like because of the CBA. you don't walk away from $48m so you can get $52m (and no team is paying him the max since they are watching to see if how body holds up). |
The possible outlay is not 52M. If he signs a 4 year max next summer then his guaranteed payout is in the 63M range for that deal alone. That's not considering an opt-out when the new TV deal hits. Plus he gets to pick his own team. Sure, there is a risk that he can get hurt next season. But there is also a risk that his knee won't last 4 seasons, meaning he can't get another big deal to make up for the year 5 difference in contract values (around $18M).
If he makes it through the season I think he can get a max deal from someone. |
Nobody offered him one this season, and the market was very player friendly. Not sure where the confidence originates. |
No one offered him one this season because he is restricted. It's not uncommon for restricted free agents not to get fair market deals offered to them. Monroe still hasn't received a deal either. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:42 am Post subject: |
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So why did Hayward get a max offer from Charlotte when Utah publicly stated it was matching all offers?
I think you discount the fact that teams may not be enamored with Bledsoe due to his recent injury history.
I can't explain Monroe's situation, but I'm focusing on Bledsoe here, who unlike Monroe, just had a major knee injury and has had chronic problems with same.
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | If his market value was the max it would have been offered, just like Hayward received one and Parsons received a near max. |
Not true. Monroe hasn't received a max offer yet. You don't think he gets one next season? There are examples of restricted guys not getting offers as large as they would if unrestricted. Some teams don't want to tie up their cap and lose on other players if there is a chance for their team to match. Parsons got a max deal because Cuban wanted to overpay to discourage Houston from matching.
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | So your assumption that he would be walking from a max is misplaced IMO. |
My assumption is that he can get a max deal as a unrestricted free agent. The markets aren't the same for restricted ve unrestricted. Based on what guys like Hayward and Parsons are getting, I can see why he thinks he can get a max deal when he is free, as long as he stays healthy.
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Again, most if not all of the top players coming off rookie deals stay with the team that owns their Bird rights. It's a part of the business where you get your first guaranteed major contract, then at the ripe age of 27-28 you finally pick the team you want to be on (or you force a trade). |
Yeah, when they get max deals (every player offered a max has stayed) or a deal they think is fair value. Bledsoe has a right to believe he is a max guy. Same with Monroe.
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | His injury history alone should sober him and his agent up. If he goes down with another injury, he could be losing half of his contract value. Take the reported $48m, and if things don't work out, ask for a trade. You don't gamble on your health especially after you missed half the season with a knee injury. |
I never said it wasn't risky. I said the payoff difference is pretty significant if he can get a max deal next summer. Is $18M worth a risk? Maybe. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:51 am Post subject: |
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So where are these supposed teams lining up to give Bledsoe a max deal? Chances are he will have another injury riddled season and the difference we're talking about is not +$18m but more like -40% of contract.
Monroe is completely different from Bledsoe at this point. I'd wager that teams are afraid of Bledsoe's knees. And of course, players think they're worth more than what they're worth. But that's why it's incumbent upon a guy like Bledsoe to get that max offer from a team and have Phx match it. Apparently no team was willing to consider a max offer, even if you account for the 72 hour cap hold up.
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | So why did Hayward get a max offer from Charlotte when Utah publicly stated it was matching all offers? |
Again, there are examples of teams trying to steal restricted guys and examples of teams not bothering offering them a contract because they are restricted. FYI, Hayward and Bledsoe play two different positions. How many young SF's with stud potential were on the market this summer?
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think you discount the fact that teams may not be enamored with Bledsoe due to his recent injury history. |
The Suns are willing to pay $48M even considering his injury history. They are just trying to get him for a lower figure because he either has to take their deal or sign a QA if a S&T isn't worked out.
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I can't explain Monroe's situation, but I'm focusing on Bledsoe here, who unlike Monroe, just had a major knee injury and has had chronic problems with same. |
I highlighted Monroe as an example of someone being lowballed because he is restricted, when he can clearly get a bigger deal if he wasn't. What you get offered as a RFA doesn't always show your value as a UFA. What you get offered one summer doesn't show your value in a following summer. The best way to guage what Bledsoe could be worth next year if he stays healthy is to look at teams with a need at PG and money to spend. Off the top of my head, I count 5 (Dallas, Houston, LA, Cha, NY). If a guy thinks he can stay healthy and can get the max, you can't see why he would wait a year and potentially make $18M more (and possibly more than that with the new TV deal) and have a shot to play in LA or NY?
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chances are he will have another injury riddled season and the difference we're talking about is not +$18m but more like -40% of contract. |
What would you say the chances of that are? How are you guaging it? His injuries were two years apart, right? |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:59 am Post subject: |
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You be the agent, what do you recommend, knowing the guy's injury history?
Me? Take the money. If you can't stand it here, we'll ask for a trade. Otherwise, another injury (likely), his market value plummets. Have to swallow your pride here.
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Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | You be the agent, what do you recommend, knowing the guy's injury history? |
It all depends on if I think he can make it a year without getting hurt. I'm not a doctor. If I think he can make it a year then I understand taking the risk. Again, his injuries were two years apart.
The Suns, who arguably have the best medical staff in the league, don't seem to be too concerned about his injury since they are offering $48M.
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Me? Take the money. If you can't stand it here, we'll ask for a trade. Otherwise, another injury (likely), his market value plummets. Have to swallow your pride here. |
Makes sense. I never said he shouldn't take the money. I said I can see why he is willing to take the risk. The potential payout is significant, and there are some prime markets (city wise and team wise) that will be in need of a PG. I can see why a guy may want to make an extra $18M and play in NY, LA, or for Cuban. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | You be the agent, what do you recommend, knowing the guy's injury history? |
It all depends on if I think he can make it a year without getting hurt. I'm not a doctor. If I think he can make it a year then I understand taking the risk. Again, his injuries were two years apart.
The Suns, who arguably have the best medical staff in the league, don't seem to be too concerned about his injury since they are offering $48M.
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Me? Take the money. If you can't stand it here, we'll ask for a trade. Otherwise, another injury (likely), his market value plummets. Have to swallow your pride here. |
Makes sense. I never said he shouldn't take the money. I said I can see why he is willing to take the risk. The potential payout is significant, and there are some prime markets (city wise and team wise) that will be in need of a PG. I can see why a guy may want to make an extra $18M and play in NY, LA, or for Cuban. |
I wish well for Bledsoe, but that is taking a major risk. He short-cutted his latest knee injury so it's a ticking time bomb for a guy whose game is predicated a lot on speed and athleticism.
Personally, as a Lakers fan, I wouldn't take the risk of offering him a max deal at this time. I like him a lot, but we've had too many injured players and the last time we made a trade with PHX for a point guard it bit us in the butt big time. 
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