|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Conker wrote: | | Does this topic has to do with Trayvon Martin? |
Not necessarily. But it is something that is on a lot of people's minds. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wsjan wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Michlake wrote: |
How bad is racism in the US? Probably no better or no worse than anywhere else in the world. |
It's better and worse than many, many other places in the world. |
That's because USA is the most racially diverse country in the world. |
I don't think that's actually true. (That it's the most racially diverse, it's not...not even close in fact).
Washington Post article with a nice map
Just in NA, Canada is considerably more diverse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wsjan
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 118
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kray28_ wrote: | | wsjan wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Michlake wrote: |
How bad is racism in the US? Probably no better or no worse than anywhere else in the world. |
It's better and worse than many, many other places in the world. |
That's because USA is the most racially diverse country in the world. |
I don't think that's actually true. (That it's the most racially diverse, it's not...not even close in fact).
Washington Post article with a nice map
Just in NA, Canada is considerably more diverse. |
Ethnically diverse /= racially diverse.
Explain how African countries are the most racially diverse? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wsjan wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | wsjan wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Michlake wrote: |
How bad is racism in the US? Probably no better or no worse than anywhere else in the world. |
It's better and worse than many, many other places in the world. |
That's because USA is the most racially diverse country in the world. |
I don't think that's actually true. (That it's the most racially diverse, it's not...not even close in fact).
Washington Post article with a nice map
Just in NA, Canada is considerably more diverse. |
Ethnically diverse /= racially diverse.
Explain how African countries are the most racially diverse? |
Explain race in any type of meaningful scientific way. Race/Ethnicity are effectively used interchangeably in the US, and Ethnicity is far more descriptive of racial/cultural dividing lines. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Corey78
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2001
Posts: 1677
Location: Cerritos, California
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ribeye
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12638
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kray28_ wrote: | | Race/Ethnicity are effectively used interchangeably in the US, and Ethnicity is far more descriptive of racial/cultural dividing lines. |
Interesting that you mention this. I remember way back when during all of my social sciences courses (if one couldn't already tell my interests), especially the anthropology courses, that the three "races" were Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Negroid. Today, these terms are rarely used and it is my understanding that anthropologists, specifically, don't believe in race according to those terms.
_________________
"A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeffs
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 25274
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Great post.
_________________
Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ribeye wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | Race/Ethnicity are effectively used interchangeably in the US, and Ethnicity is far more descriptive of racial/cultural dividing lines. |
Interesting that you mention this. I remember way back when during all of my social sciences courses (if one couldn't already tell my interests), especially the anthropology courses, that the three "races" were Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Negroid. Today, these terms are rarely used and it is my understanding that anthropologists, specifically, don't believe in race according to those terms. |
DNA sequencing and modern genetics have basically debunked the entire concept of "race". It just doesn't jive with the data, if you will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cisternachyli
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 2274
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kray28_ wrote: | Yeah, I forgot about caste. Indian culture is all about limiting your options. (bleep) it.  |
pretty much...Indian culture from ancient times has always been about homogenicity. Then you had the Europeans/British come and colonize the place...and bassically put us down the totem pole; and then we were told Africans were even further down, by the White Man, as you said earlier. With regards to caste, i totally see it as a form of discrimination (maybe it worked in the ancient world, but it has no place in a modern society), not unlike the jim crow laws and segregation that happened here in America. Another thing i found striking was how people who even looked slightly different, were looked down upon or looked at different when i was over there; i know that people living in the Northeastern parts (Bordering China and Burma) of India were really looked at differently because they looked Chinese or East Asian. I mean they looked different, but they were still Indian. The whole thing was disconcerting to me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fan0Bynum17
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 15436
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 24 wrote: | | The other fun thing about racism in a civil society is that racists have a tendency to justify their own racism by transferring it onto others. |
Is this kind of like "he who smelt it, dealt it"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
doughboy90650
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 15294
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Alive and well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
No. 17
Star Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 7040
Location: L.A
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| doughboy90650 wrote: | | Alive and well. |
From ALL sides.
_________________
It's winnin' time! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
doughboy90650
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 15294
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| No. 17 wrote: | | doughboy90650 wrote: | | Alive and well. |
From ALL sides. |
definitely |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20267
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cisternachyli wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | cisternachyli wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | My girlfriend is white and I'm Indian. Indians look at me an think I have abandoned my culture |
My wife is black and I am Indian. Other Indians look at me like I've abandoned my culture.
No joke. My wife's side of the family is much more accepting. My parents have met my kids maybe twice. And my oldest is 12 now. Blacks in general are much more accepting of my kids. After I married my wife, Indians were a gigantic letdown to me. They are kind of right about my abandonment though...I abandoned them when I realized how pervasive the racism and xenophobia amongst Indians was.
When I hear white people tell me that "blacks are racist too", I scoff a bit. There's a lot of denial going on in America. Indians are another assimilated "model minority" that have bought into the unspoken racist pact of compliance and subservience they are enlisted into when they come to America. |
dude us Indians ourselves, we are some of the most racist people around .I am sorry to say this, but its true...we HATE on our own kind, let alone others  . For example, the whole North/South Indian divide. I mean what does it matter, i thought we are all Indians at the end of the day...???Im tired of Indian culture saying what we can and cannot do. I know there are quite a few people from Africa in India, whether on Business or for Schooling. Indian people would litterally run away from them or move to the other side of the street, and it was disgusting. |
Indian racism is a sort of weird microcosm of the world's racial totem pole. Because the white colonizers told me them so, blacks are on the bottom. A lot of Indian women are obsessed with fair skin...to an unhealthy point really. It's some sort of social sickness really.
When it comes time for their sons to marry, three things matter.
1. Fairness of skin
2. Size of dowry
3. Level of education (only to make sure she is not an idiot).
I do think things are slowly changing...a lot of the girls born in the 80s and 90s are getting college educated, marrying, but also having careers. |
One should be what Caste she/he is. But yeah, i will agree on the other stuff you have said. I just find it ridiculous, being born and brought up in America, how backward India can be...and this is 2013, not the middle ages or whatever. |
Indians are also very clickish. They won't even talk to you if you are not on the same level with them either financially or educationally. I guess it's like that with all cultures but Indians are one of the worst at doing that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Statcat
Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 4260
Location: Western Conference
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
_________________
Lakersground: Join in, pick a player and trash all other players to make yours look better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dladi Vidac
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Posts: 4330
Location: Meeting the man who met Andy Griffith.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | cisternachyli wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | cisternachyli wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | My girlfriend is white and I'm Indian. Indians look at me an think I have abandoned my culture |
My wife is black and I am Indian. Other Indians look at me like I've abandoned my culture.
No joke. My wife's side of the family is much more accepting. My parents have met my kids maybe twice. And my oldest is 12 now. Blacks in general are much more accepting of my kids. After I married my wife, Indians were a gigantic letdown to me. They are kind of right about my abandonment though...I abandoned them when I realized how pervasive the racism and xenophobia amongst Indians was.
When I hear white people tell me that "blacks are racist too", I scoff a bit. There's a lot of denial going on in America. Indians are another assimilated "model minority" that have bought into the unspoken racist pact of compliance and subservience they are enlisted into when they come to America. |
dude us Indians ourselves, we are some of the most racist people around .I am sorry to say this, but its true...we HATE on our own kind, let alone others . For example, the whole North/South Indian divide. I mean what does it matter, i thought we are all Indians at the end of the day...???Im tired of Indian culture saying what we can and cannot do. I know there are quite a few people from Africa in India, whether on Business or for Schooling. Indian people would litterally run away from them or move to the other side of the street, and it was disgusting. |
Indian racism is a sort of weird microcosm of the world's racial totem pole. Because the white colonizers told me them so, blacks are on the bottom. A lot of Indian women are obsessed with fair skin...to an unhealthy point really. It's some sort of social sickness really.
When it comes time for their sons to marry, three things matter.
1. Fairness of skin
2. Size of dowry
3. Level of education (only to make sure she is not an idiot).
I do think things are slowly changing...a lot of the girls born in the 80s and 90s are getting college educated, marrying, but also having careers. |
One should be what Caste she/he is. But yeah, i will agree on the other stuff you have said. I just find it ridiculous, being born and brought up in America, how backward India can be...and this is 2013, not the middle ages or whatever. |
Indians are also very clickish. They won't even talk to you if you are not on the same level with them either financially or educationally. I guess it's like that with all cultures but Indians are one of the worst at doing that. |
Only the douchebag ones are. I've had so many Indian friend's and known several families and even though some of them are filthy rich, they've always been warm hearted and very kind and accepting. I hear what you're saying though, I'm Iranian and I come across plenty of ultra snobby douchebag types, however most are extremely kind hearted and down to earth people.
_________________
"The best there is. The best there was. The best there ever will be.", said Bret Hart regarding the Los Angeles Lakers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Christopher C
Star Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 6292
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I really enjoyed reading your earlier post in this thread and your blog post. Thanks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| No. 17 wrote: | | doughboy90650 wrote: | | Alive and well. |
From ALL sides. |
It is not equal from all sides. This bid to try to establish some type moral equivalence between the racism of the white majority in this country with prejudices that exist within all ethnicities is getting tiresome to hear about.
Yeah, we get it. Minorities can be bigoted too (we are even discussing it)....but of what consequence is that bigotry? Is it likely to reduce a white person's earning power in this country?
I don't think so.
| Quote: | Black racism is not a mirror image of white racism. It is not equal and opposite. Instead it is different in scale and kind:
Blacks lack institutional power. They do not, for the most part, control
the banks,
the police,
the courts,
the schools,
the hospitals,
the newspapers,
the film industry,
the fashion industry,
the labour market,
the housing market
and on and on. Instead whites do. So much so that their racism affects rates of black unemployment, income, life expectancy, education, segregation and incarceration. Blacks do not even begin to have that kind of power over whites. If wealth is power, as it largely is in America, then whites as a whole are a hundred times more powerful than blacks (that is double what it was before the Great Recession). Even though the president is black, he cannot openly help blacks without being accused of racism. |
Taken from here |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeffs
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 25274
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Racism is inherently destructive and detrimental to civilized society. The consequences of that racism do not make one type more acceptable than another.
_________________
Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jeffs wrote: | | Racism is inherently destructive and detrimental to civilized society. The consequences of that racism do not make one type more acceptable than another. |
Totally false.
Prejudice + power = racism.
Prejudice + no power = no power and no one gives a (bleep).
Do you think white people in this country were crying because black people probably hated their guts 60-70 years ago? Sure there was hate both ways...that's common sense. But remember, it was on the Blacks to act civil and just take the abuse and the indignity. That standard appears to still be the expectation now. Black people everywhere who doth protest too much are told to be quiet.
Kobe dared to quote Frederick Douglass on Facebook today and was told by numerous "fans" to "stick to basketball".
A quick study of the history of this country proves this. Every civil right, every law guaranteeing equal treatment for all had to fought for tooth and nail.
Because history is so poorly taught, the lessons from as recently as 50 years ago are quickly forgotten, and you have a right wing Supreme Court overturning things like the Voting Rights Act.
Last edited by K28 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeffs
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 25274
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How do you feel about a racist black CEO?
What about a racist white janitor?
Racist acts by those with more power causes more harm, but that does not mean that racist acts by those with little or no power are acceptable.
_________________
Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jeffs wrote: | How do you feel about a racist black CEO?
What about a racist white janitor?
Racist acts by those with more power causes more harm, but that does not mean that racist acts by those with little or no power are acceptable. |
If there were hundreds of black CEOs for all the Fortune 500 companies, that would mean something.
Tell me how many there are?
In what major industry/institution are blacks in charge, that their prejudices and/or racial preferences could affect your earning power adversely?
Even those black CEOs would answer of mostly white boards who would never allow for anything illegal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeffs
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 25274
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kray28_ wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | How do you feel about a racist black CEO?
What about a racist white janitor?
Racist acts by those with more power causes more harm, but that does not mean that racist acts by those with little or no power are acceptable. |
If there were hundreds of black CEOs for all the Fortune 500 companies, that would mean something.
Tell me how many there are?
In what major industry/institution are blacks in charge, that their prejudices and/or racial preferences could affect your earning power adversely?
Even those black CEOs would answer of mostly white boards who would never allow for anything illegal. |
Didn't answer my question. I'm asking about individual acts of racism. The consequences (or lack thereof) of these acts do not justify them. Ever.
_________________
Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cisternachyli
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 2274
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | cisternachyli wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | cisternachyli wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | | LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | My girlfriend is white and I'm Indian. Indians look at me an think I have abandoned my culture |
My wife is black and I am Indian. Other Indians look at me like I've abandoned my culture.
No joke. My wife's side of the family is much more accepting. My parents have met my kids maybe twice. And my oldest is 12 now. Blacks in general are much more accepting of my kids. After I married my wife, Indians were a gigantic letdown to me. They are kind of right about my abandonment though...I abandoned them when I realized how pervasive the racism and xenophobia amongst Indians was.
When I hear white people tell me that "blacks are racist too", I scoff a bit. There's a lot of denial going on in America. Indians are another assimilated "model minority" that have bought into the unspoken racist pact of compliance and subservience they are enlisted into when they come to America. |
dude us Indians ourselves, we are some of the most racist people around .I am sorry to say this, but its true...we HATE on our own kind, let alone others . For example, the whole North/South Indian divide. I mean what does it matter, i thought we are all Indians at the end of the day...???Im tired of Indian culture saying what we can and cannot do. I know there are quite a few people from Africa in India, whether on Business or for Schooling. Indian people would litterally run away from them or move to the other side of the street, and it was disgusting. |
Indian racism is a sort of weird microcosm of the world's racial totem pole. Because the white colonizers told me them so, blacks are on the bottom. A lot of Indian women are obsessed with fair skin...to an unhealthy point really. It's some sort of social sickness really.
When it comes time for their sons to marry, three things matter.
1. Fairness of skin
2. Size of dowry
3. Level of education (only to make sure she is not an idiot).
I do think things are slowly changing...a lot of the girls born in the 80s and 90s are getting college educated, marrying, but also having careers. |
One should be what Caste she/he is. But yeah, i will agree on the other stuff you have said. I just find it ridiculous, being born and brought up in America, how backward India can be...and this is 2013, not the middle ages or whatever. |
Indians are also very clickish. They won't even talk to you if you are not on the same level with them either financially or educationally. I guess it's like that with all cultures but Indians are one of the worst at doing that. |
The clickish thing is worse in America, with people who immigrated here or were born here. I didnt get as much as sense of it in India, but i am sure its also there. I think its an Asian culture thing though, this whole not talking to people if they arent on the same level as you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ribeye
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12638
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kray28_ wrote: |
If there were hundreds of black CEOs for all the Fortune 500 companies, that would mean something.
Tell me how many there are?
|
I can think of one, well, maybe only Fortune 5000, but, in the ball park. He ran for president. Remember Cain (not as in able)? He wasn't racist, he was an objectionist (less the atheist part), just as bad if oppression is the concern.
_________________
"A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
