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ChickenBeckerman
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 Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:05 am Post subject: BLACKFISH - Seaworld doesn't want you to see this |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=w2vG_Ifu4zg
Blackfish is a 2013 documentary film directed by Gabriela Cowperthwaite. The movie premiered at the Sundance Film Festival on January 19, 2013 and was picked up by Magnolia Pictures for wider release.[1]
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The documentary focuses on the captivity of the killer whale Tilikum, who was involved in the deaths of three individuals, and the consequences of keeping such large and intelligent animals in captivity. The coverage of Tilikum begins with his capture in 1983 off the coast of Iceland, showing how he was harassed by fellow captive whales and left in dark tanks for hours - incidents which Cowperthwaite argues contributed to the whale's aggression. Cowperthwaite also focuses on SeaWorld claims that whales in captivity live longer; a claim that the film argues is false |
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ComputerBlue
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Ya that is pretty messed up.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks, I love these types of docs, will go to the Landmark to watch it this week. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not a fan of keeping large cetaceans in captivity, but from what I have read this film is more along the lines of playing on emotions than really offering any compelling new insight to the subject.
I'll check it out. Sounds like it is well made, but it sounds like it's one of those examples of making a good "documentary" without really delving into the real documentary part.
It's one thing to make something like "The Cove" which really went out of it's way to bring something tragic, sinister and relatively unknown to people's attention versus just looking at the headlines and discussing the same things that have come up in dozens or articles on a subject we all know about. |
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lakez34
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Saw this the other day and found it to be exactly what I expected: a documentary detailing Sea World's dealing's with captive animals (in this case, a whale named Tilikum) and how Sea World often spins stories to make them more friendly for public consumption.
I do not necessarily think that the documentary uncovered anything that isn't already known. Sea World operates as a business primarily and makes decisions accordingly, not always to the benefit of the animal. It used a lot of home video an official video, as well as comments from a number of former trainers, to document the abuse some of these animals face. It also showed how Tilikum, in particular, has helped create a large number of whales that are all now a part of the Sea World organization.
The documentary definitely did not touch upon work that Sea World does do to help marine life, which of course could be argued it does purely to make them appear to be a corporately responsibile organization, but still a facet that I do respect about companies like Sea World. I was also hoping it would touch a little more on solutions to the problem (how should these animals be dealt with now, is there a place for this type of "amusement park" in society, where would funding come from for marine life rehabilitation if not from companies like Sea World that also have made a huge business around it).
Overall, worth watching, but it felt like it needed something more than just "here's a story." |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| lakez34 wrote: | Saw this the other day and found it to be exactly what I expected: a documentary detailing Sea World's dealing's with captive animals (in this case, a whale named Tilikum) and how Sea World often spins stories to make them more friendly for public consumption.
I do not necessarily think that the documentary uncovered anything that isn't already known. Sea World operates as a business primarily and makes decisions accordingly, not always to the benefit of the animal. It used a lot of home video an official video, as well as comments from a number of former trainers, to document the abuse some of these animals face. It also showed how Tilikum, in particular, has helped create a large number of whales that are all now a part of the Sea World organization.
The documentary definitely did not touch upon work that Sea World does do to help marine life, which of course could be argued it does purely to make them appear to be a corporately responsibile organization, but still a facet that I do respect about companies like Sea World. |
The reality is that places like Sea World and commercial aquariums need to generate revenue simply beyond donors. Part of doing so is to provide entertainment for visitors. But one thing that gets overlooked is that what what many people simply dismiss as entertainment for visitors is actually serving as stimulus for the animals themselves. Many people simply dismiss the activities as exploitation of the animals, but in reality these are activities that would be taking place even if there were no audiences. These activities are designed to mirror natural behavior and provide mental stimulation for them.
| Quote: | | I was also hoping it would touch a little more on solutions to the problem (how should these animals be dealt with now, is there a place for this type of "amusement park" in society, where would funding come from for marine life rehabilitation if not from companies like Sea World that also have made a huge business around it). Overall, worth watching, but it felt like it needed something more than just "here's a story." |
I figured that would probably be lacking. From my experience there are two types of documentaries. There are those that look to truly encompass an issue and stimulate people to think further about the big picture, and others that present a specific view. |
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frijolero01
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:40 am Post subject: |
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We made those animals stars!!! Ungrateful bastards!
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Orcas are one of few species that actually live longer in the wild then in captivity, and because of their intelligence and their basic genetic dispositions, they are horribly unsuited for being kept in small enclosures as well as being kept in relative solitude (most Orcas live in multi-generational pods, and are extremely social and interdependant). Seaworld and others can spin it any way they want, but keeping and "training" Orcas is consistent, ongoing torture of the animal.
It is interesting to note that there is no known case of a wild Orca deliberately attacking a human.
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | It is interesting to note that there is no known case of a wild Orca deliberately attacking a human. |
That's because orcas don't leave any survivors alive to tell the story. 
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | It is interesting to note that there is no known case of a wild Orca deliberately attacking a human. |
That's because orcas don't leave any survivors alive to tell the story. |
24 raises a good point though. Despite having proximity to humans in the wild, attacks on people have been virtually non-existent. There have been instances of orca's exhibiting aggressive behavior around humans, but it's likely that since they are better equipped to properly identify their prey than sharks are, there are no accidental attacks as there are with sharks. The aggressive behavior doesn't result in an attack because they realize the human isn't really what they want to eat.
But I also think it's important to keep in mind that wild orcas don't spend several hours of everyday in direct physical contact with humans as captive orcas do. So from a logical standpoint, I'd be careful about attaching too much meaning to the "attacks" on humans by captive orcas as being a purely aggressive act in response to "torture". The reality is that the orca is very capable of killing a human quite quickly and violently. If one has ever seen video of an actual predatory attack by an orca on another mammal, it's not an issue of them simply biting them and dragging them around in the water for awhile. There's a very concentrated effort to kill that prey. If orcas were getting aggressive out of a desire to punish and inflict intentional damage, they could do so in far more violent fashion than the instances of captive attacks indicate.
Orcas are also highly intelligent and curious creatures. With such creatures there is a playfulness that comes with that. There is ample reason to believe that the attacks that have taken place with captive orcas are playful acts gone wrong. Even with wild orcas, there has been "cruel" behavior observed where seals and sea lions are treated as play things to be tossed around. So such behavior isn't restricted to captive orcas going after humans in response to being in captivity.
Also, if one looks at the history of captive orca incidents resulting in harm to humans, there is a bit of recidivism. There's not a history of all captive orcas acting aggressively. There are relatively few instances and of those, there are certain orcas who repeat the behavior. it's not a widespread behavioral phenomenon.
The point is there is a bigger picture, one that involves the orcas themselves. For example, there are at least two genetically distinct types of orcas. There are transient and resident pods (and there is also science to indicate a third distinct population - offshore). Not only is their food source very different, there is a behavioral aspect that goes along with that. Transient pods eat other mammals, and do so in a migrant fashion. They attack large mammals aggressively as opportunity provides. Resident pods target fish only in a much less aggressive fashion.
As I have said, I'm not a fan of keeping large cetaceans in captivity. But there are a vast number of issues that go into approaching this discussion. Which is why what would make this type of documentary interesting to me is to see an in-depth analysis of the issue taking into account all of facts regarding not only the issues involved in regards to captivity, but those that take into account the the fact that orcas are a complex animal and that there are at least two genetically different breeds who behave completely differently and do not interbreed. For example, it would be pertinent to know if the majority of captive orcas trace their genetics to resident or transient stock and which the few aggressive orcas trace back to.
This documentary has a narrow focus - as is evidenced by the mention of a specific orca. There's a convenience that comes with a narrow focus. You get to pick and choose what you address and you skip the bigger picture issues. |
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ChickenBeckerman
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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saw an interview the other day with a former senior level Sea World employee who said that in the last 10 years the company has spent next to nothing to improve or expand the killer whale living tanks and facilities. Not that widening the tanks from 2 bodylengths to 3 would help much but pretty much all the money being spent was going towards new roller coaster rides & attractions. Meanwhile their employees are being killed.
Not good. |
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ComputerBlue
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| Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Free Willy!
Seriously.
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lakersken80
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ComputerBlue wrote: | Free Willy!
Seriously. |
Hello Congressman
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lakerjoshua
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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DMR:
| Quote: | | The reality is that places like Sea World and commercial aquariums need to generate revenue simply beyond donors. Part of doing so is to provide entertainment for visitors. But one thing that gets overlooked is that what what many people simply dismiss as entertainment for visitors is actually serving as stimulus for the animals themselves. Many people simply dismiss the activities as exploitation of the animals, but in reality these are activities that would be taking place even if there were no audiences. These activities are designed to mirror natural behavior and provide mental stimulation for them. |
Similar to when an inmate get's time on the yard to walk in circles, lift weights and fight with other criminals?
Mirrors natural behavior? LOL.
Sea World should be shut down, period. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: | DMR:
| Quote: | | The reality is that places like Sea World and commercial aquariums need to generate revenue simply beyond donors. Part of doing so is to provide entertainment for visitors. But one thing that gets overlooked is that what what many people simply dismiss as entertainment for visitors is actually serving as stimulus for the animals themselves. Many people simply dismiss the activities as exploitation of the animals, but in reality these are activities that would be taking place even if there were no audiences. These activities are designed to mirror natural behavior and provide mental stimulation for them. |
Similar to when an inmate get's time on the yard to walk in circles, lift weights and fight with other criminals?
Mirrors natural behavior? LOL.
Sea World should be shut down, period. |
I wouldn't be against that at all.
My very first words in this thread were, "I am not a fan of keeping large cetaceans in captivity". |
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lakerjoshua
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | DMR:
| Quote: | | The reality is that places like Sea World and commercial aquariums need to generate revenue simply beyond donors. Part of doing so is to provide entertainment for visitors. But one thing that gets overlooked is that what what many people simply dismiss as entertainment for visitors is actually serving as stimulus for the animals themselves. Many people simply dismiss the activities as exploitation of the animals, but in reality these are activities that would be taking place even if there were no audiences. These activities are designed to mirror natural behavior and provide mental stimulation for them. |
Similar to when an inmate get's time on the yard to walk in circles, lift weights and fight with other criminals?
Mirrors natural behavior? LOL.
Sea World should be shut down, period. |
I wouldn't be against that at all.
My very first words in this thread were, "I am not a fan of keeping large cetaceans in captivity". |
Yeah, I know what you were saying and I think for the most part we are all in agreement here.
I just thought I'd share the mental image that your statement conjured. |
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tony smith
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| Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | ComputerBlue wrote: | Free Willy!
Seriously. |
Hello Congressman |
 nice! |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Just watched the movie. Sea world should be shut down. An animal that lives a lifespan comparable to that of humans in the wild that only lives about thirty five years in captivity? Tearing calves away from mothers that clearly grieve? That's torture and it needs to stop. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | Orcas are one of few species that actually live longer in the wild then in captivity, and because of their intelligence and their basic genetic dispositions, they are horribly unsuited for being kept in small enclosures as well as being kept in relative solitude (most Orcas live in multi-generational pods, and are extremely social and interdependant). Seaworld and others can spin it any way they want, but keeping and "training" Orcas is consistent, ongoing torture of the animal.
It is interesting to note that there is no known case of a wild Orca deliberately attacking a human. |
Saw a story recently about how they had spotted an Orca known to be 103 years old. She has been tracked since the 1930's. She still covers hundreds of miles with her pod on a regular basis.
Orca's are the most social of all of the Dolphin family and it is obvious that keeping them in captivity is simply cruel.
I took my daughters to Sea World in San Diego this summer but have had grave second thoughts after finding out about this. Also, Sea World has an average of a human worker, who are paid peanuts BTW, killed every 1.5 years.
On that same trip I took the girls to the LA Zoo. I've never seen a more miserable appearing collection of animals.
I've decided to use this as an opportunity to teach my daughters about our stewardship of the environment and the animals with whom we share it. Knowing them as I do, I'd be hard pressed to imagine them to ever want to visit a zoo or an aquatic theme park again.
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CBaller8
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | 24 wrote: | Orcas are one of few species that actually live longer in the wild then in captivity, and because of their intelligence and their basic genetic dispositions, they are horribly unsuited for being kept in small enclosures as well as being kept in relative solitude (most Orcas live in multi-generational pods, and are extremely social and interdependant). Seaworld and others can spin it any way they want, but keeping and "training" Orcas is consistent, ongoing torture of the animal.
It is interesting to note that there is no known case of a wild Orca deliberately attacking a human. |
Saw a story recently about how they had spotted an Orca known to be 103 years old. She has been tracked since the 1930's. She still covers hundreds of miles with her pod on a regular basis.
Orca's are the most social of all of the Dolphin family and it is obvious that keeping them in captivity is simply cruel.
I took my daughters to Sea World in San Diego this summer but have had grave second thoughts after finding out about this. Also, Sea World has an average of a human worker, who are paid peanuts BTW, killed every 1.5 years.
On that same trip I took the girls to the LA Zoo. I've never seen a more miserable appearing collection of animals.
I've decided to use this as an opportunity to teach my daughters about our stewardship of the environment and the animals with whom we share it. Knowing them as I do, I'd be hard pressed to imagine them to ever want to visit a zoo or an aquatic theme park again. |
So did you tell them that Sea World and other parks that keep wild animals in captivity are bad? If they ask to go, will you take them again? |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| CBaller8 wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | 24 wrote: | Orcas are one of few species that actually live longer in the wild then in captivity, and because of their intelligence and their basic genetic dispositions, they are horribly unsuited for being kept in small enclosures as well as being kept in relative solitude (most Orcas live in multi-generational pods, and are extremely social and interdependant). Seaworld and others can spin it any way they want, but keeping and "training" Orcas is consistent, ongoing torture of the animal.
It is interesting to note that there is no known case of a wild Orca deliberately attacking a human. |
Saw a story recently about how they had spotted an Orca known to be 103 years old. She has been tracked since the 1930's. She still covers hundreds of miles with her pod on a regular basis.
Orca's are the most social of all of the Dolphin family and it is obvious that keeping them in captivity is simply cruel.
I took my daughters to Sea World in San Diego this summer but have had grave second thoughts after finding out about this. Also, Sea World has an average of a human worker, who are paid peanuts BTW, killed every 1.5 years.
On that same trip I took the girls to the LA Zoo. I've never seen a more miserable appearing collection of animals.
I've decided to use this as an opportunity to teach my daughters about our stewardship of the environment and the animals with whom we share it. Knowing them as I do, I'd be hard pressed to imagine them to ever want to visit a zoo or an aquatic theme park again. |
So did you tell them that Sea World and other parks that keep wild animals in captivity are bad? If they ask to go, will you take them again? |
We haven't had the discussion yet but we will. And the won't want to go back after hearing that. I know them well enough to be absolutely sure of that.
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | 24 wrote: | Orcas are one of few species that actually live longer in the wild then in captivity, and because of their intelligence and their basic genetic dispositions, they are horribly unsuited for being kept in small enclosures as well as being kept in relative solitude (most Orcas live in multi-generational pods, and are extremely social and interdependant). Seaworld and others can spin it any way they want, but keeping and "training" Orcas is consistent, ongoing torture of the animal.
It is interesting to note that there is no known case of a wild Orca deliberately attacking a human. |
Saw a story recently about how they had spotted an Orca known to be 103 years old. She has been tracked since the 1930's. She still covers hundreds of miles with her pod on a regular basis.
Orca's are the most social of all of the Dolphin family and it is obvious that keeping them in captivity is simply cruel.
I took my daughters to Sea World in San Diego this summer but have had grave second thoughts after finding out about this. Also, Sea World has an average of a human worker, who are paid peanuts BTW, killed every 1.5 years.
On that same trip I took the girls to the LA Zoo. I've never seen a more miserable appearing collection of animals.
I've decided to use this as an opportunity to teach my daughters about our stewardship of the environment and the animals with whom we share it. Knowing them as I do, I'd be hard pressed to imagine them to ever want to visit a zoo or an aquatic theme park again. |
I had fond memories of the LA Zoo as a kid, but then you see the world through a different set of eyes at that age. Fast forward as a young adult, I took a date there. It was a miserable experience, I think much of it had to do with how zoos have developed over time. Between all the concrete and tiny confined space, it had the ambiance of a prison. These conditions probably reflected that state of the art in zoo-keeping when the zoo was constructed, and since that time we now try to give the animals much more room and perhaps some flora.
I realize the point of a documentary is to tell a story, and that story can sometimes sacrifice a balanced POV. That being said, the preponderance of evidence suggests that it is cruel to keep Orcas in captivity. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: |
On that same trip I took the girls to the LA Zoo. I've never seen a more miserable appearing collection of animals. |
Last time I went to the LA Zoo was on a field trip in 92. I remember a polar bear with a green tint on its back from algae and it would back in and out of it's cave enclosure repetitively. Looked plainly disturbed.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: |
On that same trip I took the girls to the LA Zoo. I've never seen a more miserable appearing collection of animals. |
Last time I went to the LA Zoo was on a field trip in 92. I remember a polar bear with a green tint on its back from algae and it would back in and out of it's cave enclosure repetitively. Looked plainly disturbed. |
These guys made it look so fun. |
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