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Gleedaniel13
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Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Posts: 23
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 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe the kid resisted from the arrest of the cops and tried to get away so the cops has nothing to do but to make another move. Maybe they didn't intend to kill the kid. The kid was just accidentally killed. MAYBE. |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | The officers involved should be evaluated. All wearing a badge are not mentally qualified.
How many were picked last in playground games or not at all? How many were bullied as children?
I don't have a formula to get it right but I do believe there is one better to weed than the one currently employed. Investigation to improve the hiring is definitely in order.
If there was a clear a present danger I would side with the officers, I don't see one.
Being a cop is a very, very, very tough vocation. The good outweigh the bad by a large margin but the bad get the press more often than the good.
Hopefully the department will investigate and make the right decision. |
I wonder what possesses someone to become a cop. In a lot of cases these are likely psychologically maladjusted people who just need an outlet for their dysfunctional tendencies.
It's a job that, to an extent, allows you to get away with acts of aggression and violence. How many times do we hear a story about a cop killing a suspect who was presumed to be armed and dangerous, where the cop's life was not in danger? How many of those cops actually got punished for what they did? |
Good question considering that so many people do what you are doing and conflate the acts of a few to characterize the whole. I sure wouldn't want to be a cop when there are so many people willing to condemn me for what other cops did.
What do you do for a living? I'm sure there are people who do it that are screwed up. Would like like to be lumped in with them? |
I agree in principal, although it is pretty clear there is a bit of a sea change in cop behavior/militancy, and one thing i keep pointing out is that if all the rest of the cops keep clamming up behind the blue line, they kind of earn getting tarrred with the brush. |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52656
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | The officers involved should be evaluated. All wearing a badge are not mentally qualified.
How many were picked last in playground games or not at all? How many were bullied as children?
I don't have a formula to get it right but I do believe there is one better to weed than the one currently employed. Investigation to improve the hiring is definitely in order.
If there was a clear a present danger I would side with the officers, I don't see one.
Being a cop is a very, very, very tough vocation. The good outweigh the bad by a large margin but the bad get the press more often than the good.
Hopefully the department will investigate and make the right decision. |
I wonder what possesses someone to become a cop. In a lot of cases these are likely psychologically maladjusted people who just need an outlet for their dysfunctional tendencies.
It's a job that, to an extent, allows you to get away with acts of aggression and violence. How many times do we hear a story about a cop killing a suspect who was presumed to be armed and dangerous, where the cop's life was not in danger? How many of those cops actually got punished for what they did? |
Good question considering that so many people do what you are doing and conflate the acts of a few to characterize the whole. I sure wouldn't want to be a cop when there are so many people willing to condemn me for what other cops did.
What do you do for a living? I'm sure there are people who do it that are screwed up. Would like like to be lumped in with them? |
I agree in principal, although it is pretty clear there is a bit of a sea change in cop behavior/militancy, and one thing i keep pointing out is that if all the rest of the cops keep clamming up behind the blue line, they kind of earn getting tarrred with the brush. |
I'm sure you have read enough of these threads to understand where I lie on this subject (and are aware that this thread is years old).
Increase in militancy? Check. Agreed.
Not enough accountability by PDs? Check. Agreed.
No sympathy for the cops who cover up? Check. Agreed.
There's clearly an accelerated focus on police use of force since this thread originated, and for good reason.
That said,I realize that not every cop who goes on the job does so because they are a borderline psycho looking for a job where they get to take out their aggressions on the people they encounter.
The fact that institutionally, law enforcement has a proclivity for protecting their own over the citizens they are sworn to protect doesn't change that.
It's not unlike the discussions on race that have gone on here. You can't ignore that the problems exist and the factors involved, but you can't go painting with brushes that cover everything on the canvas if you want progress. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | The officers involved should be evaluated. All wearing a badge are not mentally qualified.
How many were picked last in playground games or not at all? How many were bullied as children?
I don't have a formula to get it right but I do believe there is one better to weed than the one currently employed. Investigation to improve the hiring is definitely in order.
If there was a clear a present danger I would side with the officers, I don't see one.
Being a cop is a very, very, very tough vocation. The good outweigh the bad by a large margin but the bad get the press more often than the good.
Hopefully the department will investigate and make the right decision. |
I wonder what possesses someone to become a cop. In a lot of cases these are likely psychologically maladjusted people who just need an outlet for their dysfunctional tendencies.
It's a job that, to an extent, allows you to get away with acts of aggression and violence. How many times do we hear a story about a cop killing a suspect who was presumed to be armed and dangerous, where the cop's life was not in danger? How many of those cops actually got punished for what they did? |
Good question considering that so many people do what you are doing and conflate the acts of a few to characterize the whole. I sure wouldn't want to be a cop when there are so many people willing to condemn me for what other cops did.
What do you do for a living? I'm sure there are people who do it that are screwed up. Would like like to be lumped in with them? |
I agree in principal, although it is pretty clear there is a bit of a sea change in cop behavior/militancy, and one thing i keep pointing out is that if all the rest of the cops keep clamming up behind the blue line, they kind of earn getting tarrred with the brush. |
I'm sure you have read enough of these threads to understand where I lie on this subject (and are aware that this thread is years old).
Increase in militancy? Check. Agreed.
Not enough accountability by PDs? Check. Agreed.
No sympathy for the cops who cover up? Check. Agreed.
There's clearly an accelerated focus on police use of force since this thread originated, and for good reason.
That said,I realize that not every cop who goes on the job does so because they are a borderline psycho looking for a job where they get to take out their aggressions on the people they encounter.
The fact that institutionally, law enforcement has a proclivity for protecting their own over the citizens they are sworn to protect doesn't change that.
It's not unlike the discussions on race that have gone on here. You can't ignore that the problems exist and the factors involved, but you can't go painting with brushes that cover everything on the canvas if you want progress. |
Agreed. I was just adding to what you said. |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| FWIW, I see decent cops as somewhat analogous to decent conservatives. Lots of both, but their image has been hijacked by the rabid fringe, and until they step up and take it back, that's what they are going to be viewed at more and more. |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52656
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | FWIW, I see decent cops as somewhat analogous to decent conservatives. Lots of both, but their image has been hijacked by the rabid fringe, and until they step up and take it back, that's what they are going to be viewed at more and more. |
Goes both ways. I'm the last to standup for conservatives, but there idiot liberals who endanger the populace by letting Playboy models dictate their approach to caring for their children rather than doctors.
It's not about labels and broad brushes.
It's about issues and the solutions. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | FWIW, I see decent cops as somewhat analogous to decent conservatives. Lots of both, but their image has been hijacked by the rabid fringe, and until they step up and take it back, that's what they are going to be viewed at more and more. |
Goes both ways. I'm the last to standup for conservatives, but there idiot liberals who endanger the populace by letting Playboy models dictate their approach to caring for their children rather than doctors. |
Absolutely. But the difference is that they aren't the only people showing up selecting their candidates, while more rational liberals stand by or go along. That was the analogy.
Oh, and apparently the right wing fringe has decided to co opt anti vax as an issue. Yay! |
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jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67703
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Not all join the force to beat people or are phychotic. Look up the pay scales and health benefits with dental. I believe a Detective III clocks around 122,000 per. College degrees are rewarded.
There are groups of officers that mentor wayward youth with goals to make their paths straight. These groups are not newsworthy thus the public has little or no knowledge of their existence.
There are good and bad accountants, good and bad mechanics. All vocations have levels of excelence. Ever been ripped by a plumber?
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52656
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | FWIW, I see decent cops as somewhat analogous to decent conservatives. Lots of both, but their image has been hijacked by the rabid fringe, and until they step up and take it back, that's what they are going to be viewed at more and more. |
Goes both ways. I'm the last to standup for conservatives, but there idiot liberals who endanger the populace by letting Playboy models dictate their approach to caring for their children rather than doctors. |
Absolutely. But the difference is that they aren't the only people showing up selecting their candidates, while more rational liberals stand by or go along. That was the analogy.
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I don't believe that's accurate at all. There's no real difference. I've spoken to many liberals who voted democratically in the last two elections who had serious reservations about Obama, but the ignored their reservations to "go along". And I know for sure that the same thing is going to happen with Hillary in 2016. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | I don't believe that's accurate at all. There's no real difference. I've spoken to many liberals who voted democratically in the last two elections who had serious reservations about Obama, but the ignored their reservations to "go along". And I know for sure that the same thing is going to happen with Hillary in 2016. |
One of the major goals of both political parties is to insure that voters have as few choices as possible. This has been true for a long time. If voters have choices, they might not pick the candidate that the party thinks will best serve the interests of the party.
I find it amusing (in a way) to watch this break down in the GOP, as grassroots candidates beat establishment candidates and the presidential primary process turns into a mud wrestling exhibition. Setting aside the politics of most if not all of the grassroots types -- which is a whole different discussion -- the essential phenomenon is a rejection of the party establishment's control of the candidate selection process. The right wing voters wanted hell raisers, not businessmen. And that's what they got. This is democracy in action, whatever you may think of some of the people in question.
In the case of Hillary, who is the alternative for the Democrats? I actually know Elizabeth Warren (though from long ago), and I really doubt that she will ever run for president. There isn't another apparent candidate. So even though I lack enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton, the choice will likely be her or Jeb Bush/Marco Rubio/Rand Paul. Voting tends to be a function of anger, fear, and passion. I may not be angry, and I may not be passionate about Hillary, but the GOP scares me. |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52656
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | I don't believe that's accurate at all. There's no real difference. I've spoken to many liberals who voted democratically in the last two elections who had serious reservations about Obama, but the ignored their reservations to "go along". And I know for sure that the same thing is going to happen with Hillary in 2016. |
One of the major goals of both political parties is to insure that voters have as few choices as possible. This has been true for a long time. If voters have choices, they might not pick the candidate that the party thinks will best serve the interests of the party.
I find it amusing (in a way) to watch this break down in the GOP, as grassroots candidates beat establishment candidates and the presidential primary process turns into a mud wrestling exhibition. Setting aside the politics of most if not all of the grassroots types -- which is a whole different discussion -- the essential phenomenon is a rejection of the party establishment's control of the candidate selection process. The right wing voters wanted hell raisers, not businessmen. And that's what they got. This is democracy in action, whatever you may think of some of the people in question.
In the case of Hillary, who is the alternative for the Democrats? I actually know Elizabeth Warren (though from long ago), and I really doubt that she will ever run for president. There isn't another apparent candidate. So even though I lack enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton, the choice will likely be her or Jeb Bush/Marco Rubio/Rand Paul. Voting tends to be a function of anger, fear, and passion. I may not be angry, and I may not be passionate about Hillary, but the GOP scares me. |
And that's my point exactly. Such decisions aren't always made out of an intentional act of complicity.
There are those that do, and those that don't. Conveniently finding fault with the direction when it's personally convenient while ignoring the same motivations when it's not is the core of the problem. |
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Cutheon
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12182
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | I don't believe that's accurate at all. There's no real difference. I've spoken to many liberals who voted democratically in the last two elections who had serious reservations about Obama, but the ignored their reservations to "go along". And I know for sure that the same thing is going to happen with Hillary in 2016. |
One of the major goals of both political parties is to insure that voters have as few choices as possible. This has been true for a long time. If voters have choices, they might not pick the candidate that the party thinks will best serve the interests of the party.
I find it amusing (in a way) to watch this break down in the GOP, as grassroots candidates beat establishment candidates and the presidential primary process turns into a mud wrestling exhibition. Setting aside the politics of most if not all of the grassroots types -- which is a whole different discussion -- the essential phenomenon is a rejection of the party establishment's control of the candidate selection process. The right wing voters wanted hell raisers, not businessmen. And that's what they got. This is democracy in action, whatever you may think of some of the people in question.
In the case of Hillary, who is the alternative for the Democrats? I actually know Elizabeth Warren (though from long ago), and I really doubt that she will ever run for president. There isn't another apparent candidate. So even though I lack enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton, the choice will likely be her or Jeb Bush/Marco Rubio/Rand Paul. Voting tends to be a function of anger, fear, and passion. I may not be angry, and I may not be passionate about Hillary, but the GOP scares me. |
Darn Houstoners (Houstonites? Houstonians? Houstanians?) taking over the place. |
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ContagiousInspiration
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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So, anyone who runs from the cops deserves to get tazed?
Ooh, I'm sure the tagger was a serious danger to the citizenry and the good officers of the peace. The tazing was more likely revenge by the cops. |
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ContagiousInspiration
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=CmtdGzpAH9I chief speaks at about 5:20 mark
Just simply comply and you have nothing to fear at all. Chief of CHP also said he saw nothing odd about the case in the video.. Broken arm and ribs..golly gee..nothing odd about that?!!!
| Quote: | the truck driver suffered life-threatening injuries including a crushed left orbital eye socket, multiple facial fractures, a broken left arm, a concussion, unconsciousness and possible neurological damage.
Medical records also show that he apparently stopped breathing while lying out on the highway and had to be rushed to Auburn Faith Hospital. But Kozacenko’s injuries were too severe for that hospital’s emergency room and he had to be transported to UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento.
The NBC Bay Area Investigative Unit wanted to know how an incident that began as a traffic stop, ended with a trip to a trauma center. |
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Berkeley-Man-Near-Death-at-the-hands-of-CHP-206494311.html
Bet that (bleep) who ran from the cop on the side of the highway deserved to get punched in the head too.. Just comply and don't run ;) |
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