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jodeke
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 Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Watching Hillary's speech in Florida. She's gone ol skool impromptu. Crib notes you use to stay on point and come from the hip. Those who've taken speech classes in college must have notice. She's talking to the entire audience, even those behind her. Any other speaker show the back of their head?
Curious: Do any think it affective?
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Former Ku Klux Klan wizard David Duke emerged from a 17-year political hiatus Friday to officially sign up to run for U.S. Senate in Louisiana, a state already roiling with racial tension.
Duke, a Republican who served one term in the Louisiana House, hasn't run for office since 1999. He is running to fill the seat that will be vacated by Republican Sen. David Vitter. |
From KKK to USS
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | Lots of really ugly (bleep) in the DNC e-mails leaked on wikileaks today. 
Bernie supporters should be PISSED |
I went and looked it up. Honestly, it seemed like a yawner to me. The headlines were far, far more dramatic than the actual substance. So the DNC didn't want Sanders and made fun of his campaign. Wow, I never would have expected that.
If you saw something significant in the e-mails, tell me what it was. I have an open mind on this. However, what I saw was headlines blaring about the primaries being "rigged," but e-mails that were really sort of tame. |
And BTW, the primaries are rigged, in that it is set up so two parties can select one of their own and then we have a choice between the two. So of course both systems are set up to support actual party people vs outsiders. The entire purpose of primaries is to eliminate independent candidates.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | And BTW, the primaries are rigged, in that it is set up so two parties can select one of their own and then we have a choice between the two. So of course both systems are set up to support actual party people vs outsiders. The entire purpose of primaries is to eliminate independent candidates. |
If that is all they mean by "rigged," it's a yawner. The national committees are "supposed" to be neutral, but of course they aren't and never have been. "Rigged" implies something more sinister.
I can understand why the Sanders supporters thought the system was unfair, but as you say the system is designed to promote the interests (real or perceived) of the party. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | And BTW, the primaries are rigged, in that it is set up so two parties can select one of their own and then we have a choice between the two. So of course both systems are set up to support actual party people vs outsiders. The entire purpose of primaries is to eliminate independent candidates. |
If that is all they mean by "rigged," it's a yawner. The national committees are "supposed" to be neutral, but of course they aren't and never have been. "Rigged" implies something more sinister.
I can understand why the Sanders supporters thought the system was unfair, but as you say the system is designed to promote the interests (real or perceived) of the party. |
I get that trump and Sanders are wildly different guys with wildly different messages, but from a structural standpoint vis a vis the party each affiliated with, they are nearly identical, and while Sanders supporters clearly see why the GOP would try to move heaven and earth to keep Trump from winning (and understand that trump's victory spells significant risk to the ongoing viability of the party), they don't apply that to the Democratic Party, which has the same issues with Sanders.
Again, that's not equating the two guys on their policies or tone, merely the idea that neither party has or had a vested interest in an outsider co-opting their process.
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focus
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rwongega
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focus
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | And BTW, the primaries are rigged, in that it is set up so two parties can select one of their own and then we have a choice between the two. So of course both systems are set up to support actual party people vs outsiders. The entire purpose of primaries is to eliminate independent candidates. |
If that is all they mean by "rigged," it's a yawner. The national committees are "supposed" to be neutral, but of course they aren't and never have been. "Rigged" implies something more sinister.
I can understand why the Sanders supporters thought the system was unfair, but as you say the system is designed to promote the interests (real or perceived) of the party. |
I get that trump and Sanders are wildly different guys with wildly different messages, but from a structural standpoint vis a vis the party each affiliated with, they are nearly identical, and while Sanders supporters clearly see why the GOP would try to move heaven and earth to keep Trump from winning (and understand that trump's victory spells significant risk to the ongoing viability of the party), they don't apply that to the Democratic Party, which has the same issues with Sanders.
Again, that's not equating the two guys on their policies or tone, merely the idea that neither party has or had a vested interest in an outsider co-opting their process. |
Where are you finding this? I am not doubting it logically, but I wouldn't have thought they piped up about GOP machinations vs Trump much. |
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focus
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: |
Conspiracy theory: Donald Trump is just a plant by the Clintons to bring out the racists to full froth, draw sympathy for Hillary, and derail the Republican ticket.  |
That is some shrewd foresight there  I don't know if they planned on the level of support he got though. I can see Bill thinking what the heck, Trump's not gonna get much support anyway. Might as well yank his chain. "Oh, yeah go ahead Donald, you'll be great <smirk>" |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sauces are saying that the Hillary VP choice announcement is imminent. Expected to be Kaine. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| focus wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | And BTW, the primaries are rigged, in that it is set up so two parties can select one of their own and then we have a choice between the two. So of course both systems are set up to support actual party people vs outsiders. The entire purpose of primaries is to eliminate independent candidates. |
If that is all they mean by "rigged," it's a yawner. The national committees are "supposed" to be neutral, but of course they aren't and never have been. "Rigged" implies something more sinister.
I can understand why the Sanders supporters thought the system was unfair, but as you say the system is designed to promote the interests (real or perceived) of the party. |
I get that trump and Sanders are wildly different guys with wildly different messages, but from a structural standpoint vis a vis the party each affiliated with, they are nearly identical, and while Sanders supporters clearly see why the GOP would try to move heaven and earth to keep Trump from winning (and understand that trump's victory spells significant risk to the ongoing viability of the party), they don't apply that to the Democratic Party, which has the same issues with Sanders.
Again, that's not equating the two guys on their policies or tone, merely the idea that neither party has or had a vested interest in an outsider co-opting their process. |
Where are you finding this? I am not doubting it logically, but I wouldn't have thought they piped up about GOP machinations vs Trump much. |
I have yet to speak to a single Sanders voter online or otherwise who has expressed any issue at all with the GOP not wanting Trump invading their process.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Clinton picks Kaine, CNN is reporting. |
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IPK
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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How many average Americans know who Kaine or any other VP candidate is? How much does the average citizen know abou him? Kaine has to sell himself to help HRC.
VP's are on the ticket for succession purposes. I don't know anything about Kaine. Is he qualified to run the country?
Was it pure Luck Lyndon Johnson was the VP when JFK was assassinated? Much of what I've heard says he was really the one pushing JFK's policies through. He was the power behind the scene.
Don't know how much it weighed in the choice but Kaine speaks Spanish fluently. I vision him talking to that ethnic.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I was sort of hoping that HRC would make a bolder pick. Kaine is the "safe" pick, at least on paper. The Sanders faction won't be thrilled with him, but overall he won't turn them off. Still, he adds to the narrative that HRC is an old school establishment politician following the rules of old school politics. I would have liked a bold pick like Warren. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | How many average Americans know who Kaine or any other VP candidate is? How much does the average citizen know abou him? Kaine has to sell himself to help HRC.
VP's are on the ticket for succession purposes. I don't know anything about Kaine. Is he qualified to run the country?
Was it pure Luck Lyndon Johnson was the VP when JFK was assassinated? Much of what I've heard says he was really the one pushing JFK's policies through. He was the power behind the scene. |
Kaine was the smart and safe choice here. Hillary is the clear favorite in this election and there was no need to get risky at all with the VP pick. Tim Kaine is a current Senator from Virginia, was previously the Governor of Virginia, and also was a former mayor of the city of Richmond. He has foreign policy and national security experience in the Senate. He speaks fluent Spanish. It's also going to be much harder for Trump to win the election if he can't win Virginia, and with Kaine on board, it's now even more likely that VA goes blue again in this election.
I'm definitely on board with this. |
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focus
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | focus wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | And BTW, the primaries are rigged, in that it is set up so two parties can select one of their own and then we have a choice between the two. So of course both systems are set up to support actual party people vs outsiders. The entire purpose of primaries is to eliminate independent candidates. |
If that is all they mean by "rigged," it's a yawner. The national committees are "supposed" to be neutral, but of course they aren't and never have been. "Rigged" implies something more sinister.
I can understand why the Sanders supporters thought the system was unfair, but as you say the system is designed to promote the interests (real or perceived) of the party. |
I get that trump and Sanders are wildly different guys with wildly different messages, but from a structural standpoint vis a vis the party each affiliated with, they are nearly identical, and while Sanders supporters clearly see why the GOP would try to move heaven and earth to keep Trump from winning (and understand that trump's victory spells significant risk to the ongoing viability of the party), they don't apply that to the Democratic Party, which has the same issues with Sanders.
Again, that's not equating the two guys on their policies or tone, merely the idea that neither party has or had a vested interest in an outsider co-opting their process. |
Where are you finding this? I am not doubting it logically, but I wouldn't have thought they piped up about GOP machinations vs Trump much. |
I have yet to speak to a single Sanders voter online or otherwise who has expressed any issue at all with the GOP not wanting Trump invading their process. |
So...they expressed outward approval about GOP not wanting Trump? or just didn't say anything one way or the other?
I haven't expressed any issue at all with people painting with broccoli but that's because it's not an issue I really consider. Yet this should not be construed as approval of broccoli painting. Or disapproval for that matter. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: |
Conspiracy theory: Donald Trump is just a plant by the Clintons to bring out the racists to full froth, draw sympathy for Hillary, and derail the Republican ticket. |
Maybe it's also to drag elements of that party back to the center. I couldn't believe that I was watching the RNC cheer Trump when he talked about defending LGBTQ citizens. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | I was sort of hoping that HRC would make a bolder pick. Kaine is the "safe" pick, at least on paper. The Sanders faction won't be thrilled with him, but overall he won't turn them off. Still, he adds to the narrative that HRC is an old school establishment politician following the rules of old school politics. I would have liked a bold pick like Warren. |
He sure as hell turns me off. Flat out endorsed the TPP yesterday. Isn't Hillary supposed to be against that these days? |
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focus
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | How many average Americans know who Kaine or any other VP candidate is? How much does the average citizen know abou him? Kaine has to sell himself to help HRC.
VP's are on the ticket for succession purposes. I don't know anything about Kaine. Is he qualified to run the country?
Was it pure Luck Lyndon Johnson was the VP when JFK was assassinated? Much of what I've heard says he was really the one pushing JFK's policies through. He was the power behind the scene. |
Kaine was the smart and safe choice here. Hillary is the clear favorite in this election and there was no need to get risky at all with the VP pick. Tim Kaine is a current Senator from Virginia, was previously the Governor of Virginia, and also was a former mayor of the city of Richmond. He has foreign policy and national security experience in the Senate. He speaks fluent Spanish. It's also going to be much harder for Trump to win the election if he can't win Virginia, and with Kaine on board, it's now even more likely that VA goes blue again in this election.
I'm definitely on board with this. |
What is his advantage for foreign policy and national security? |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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I was hoping we'd see Cory Booker be the pick. He actually voted against TPP authority and would have been exciting to groom for the next presidency.
Oh well. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| focus wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | How many average Americans know who Kaine or any other VP candidate is? How much does the average citizen know abou him? Kaine has to sell himself to help HRC.
VP's are on the ticket for succession purposes. I don't know anything about Kaine. Is he qualified to run the country?
Was it pure Luck Lyndon Johnson was the VP when JFK was assassinated? Much of what I've heard says he was really the one pushing JFK's policies through. He was the power behind the scene. |
Kaine was the smart and safe choice here. Hillary is the clear favorite in this election and there was no need to get risky at all with the VP pick. Tim Kaine is a current Senator from Virginia, was previously the Governor of Virginia, and also was a former mayor of the city of Richmond. He has foreign policy and national security experience in the Senate. He speaks fluent Spanish. It's also going to be much harder for Trump to win the election if he can't win Virginia, and with Kaine on board, it's now even more likely that VA goes blue again in this election.
I'm definitely on board with this. |
What is his advantage for foreign policy and national security? |
If I'm not mistaken, he serves on the Foreign Relations committee and the Armed Services committee in the Senate. |
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focus
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | I was sort of hoping that HRC would make a bolder pick. Kaine is the "safe" pick, at least on paper. The Sanders faction won't be thrilled with him, but overall he won't turn them off. Still, he adds to the narrative that HRC is an old school establishment politician following the rules of old school politics. I would have liked a bold pick like Warren. |
He sure as hell turns me off. Flat out endorsed the TPP yesterday. Isn't Hillary supposed to be against that these days? |
Supposed to be if you believed it then. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | focus wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | How many average Americans know who Kaine or any other VP candidate is? How much does the average citizen know abou him? Kaine has to sell himself to help HRC.
VP's are on the ticket for succession purposes. I don't know anything about Kaine. Is he qualified to run the country?
Was it pure Luck Lyndon Johnson was the VP when JFK was assassinated? Much of what I've heard says he was really the one pushing JFK's policies through. He was the power behind the scene. |
Kaine was the smart and safe choice here. Hillary is the clear favorite in this election and there was no need to get risky at all with the VP pick. Tim Kaine is a current Senator from Virginia, was previously the Governor of Virginia, and also was a former mayor of the city of Richmond. He has foreign policy and national security experience in the Senate. He speaks fluent Spanish. It's also going to be much harder for Trump to win the election if he can't win Virginia, and with Kaine on board, it's now even more likely that VA goes blue again in this election.
I'm definitely on board with this. |
What is his advantage for foreign policy and national security? |
If I'm not mistaken, he serves on the Foreign Relations committee and the Armed Services committee in the Senate. |
He's batting a cool .000 in the Senate too. 0-39 in any of his proposed bills becoming law!
Also he's personally against abortion, but at least he doesn't vote that way. This guy is about as centrist as you can get. |
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32
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Nate silver says that Tim Kaine doesn't really help Clinton very much. I'm starting to get a little depressed.
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