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ArminNBA
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 Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | ArminNBA wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Kobe's contract will allow the team to bring in the final pieces in 2016. The only way it might hurt is if some player unexpectedly becomes a FA before then. But with guaranteed contracts, that can't happen. |
I agree, that's why I posted this the other day, but it got lost in the shuffle:
"I think the Lakers aren't as clueless and aimless as the media and many fans portray them to be. Both Mitch and Jim must be on the same page and have a direction. The decisions, from signings to trades, are all calculated and for a greater purpose. This is my estimation of the Lakers plan going forward:
Draft PG/C in 2014. Fill out team similarly to last off-season with mostly 1 year deals.
Sign Kevin Love in 2015 (Love's ties to LA are obvious).
Sign Kevin Durant in 2016.
Re-sign Kobe to 2 year/10 million total in 2016.
A third year salary for a rookie picked between 1-5 is between 3-5 million dollars. Love and Durant would be at 20 million each. Bryant at 5 million. The total between presumably the best 4 starters would be at 50 million, which would leave the Lakers with about 15 million dollars in cap space (depending on the cap that year). That is plenty to be able to acquire a deep bench, especially when there will likely be quite a few players willing to come over for cheap to be able to play with the best players in the game on the most well-known franchise with likely the best chance to win a championship.
This is why I think the Kobe Extension was not misguided. Rather than give Kobe the Duncan/Garnet inspired $12-14 million per year/3 year contract, the Lakers offered Kobe the $24 million per year/2 year deal for the purpose of salvaging capspace for the summer of 2016. If Bryant were signed on for 14 million, then his salary plus that of K Love's 20 million would prevent the ability to sign Kevin Durant in 2016 (my belief is that this is the Lakers ultimate goal).
Kobe has said he potentially wants to play 4 more years in the league. By giving him 48 million over the next two and then 10 million over his final two, the Lakers have essentially offered him a 4 year/$58 million deal (14.25 per year) as his final contract with the Lakers. I think many fans would have been delighted at this sort of deal and the purpose for signing Kobe to the exorbitant short-term deal was to create the necessary flexibility to build the best possible team in both the short and long term.
This would essentially be a 2 year rebuild (more like a reload). And Kobe would likely be sent off with a repeat, which would not happen if the Lakers spent their capspace this summer to simply appease Kobe and the fans. Also, 2015-16 wouldn't be such a bad season with Kobe, top 5 pick, and Love."
I would also like to add that I think the Kobe deal is also a message to free agents in the future that they compensate their legends very well.
Also, by not moving J Hill and Kaman and Pau as mere salary dumps, they displayed loyalty and a commitment to fielding the best possible team or give the team the best possible potential. That is why they said they would not make a move that wasn't purely for basketball purposes. If they could get a draft pick, then they would have made the trade that compromises the basketball ability of the current team that was hopeless in order to build for the future. Salary dumps are merely financial, lack loyalty, and don't display any commitment to winning. I think with the emergence of Bazemore, it has lessened the perception that the Blake trade was a salary dump and instead has highlighted the Lakers pursuit of young talent for a rebuild. |
i wish what you said comes to fruition. but that hangs on 2 big uncertainties: signing Love and Durant. at this moment i would say 50/50 on Love and 25/75 on Durant come to Lakers, what makes you so confident Lakers sign both of them? |
I don't know and the rules prevent anybody from knowing, otherwise it would be tampering. However, rebuilds take time. We may not have been waiting for Shaq to come in '96, but by staying patient and not making panic, short-sighted moves to placate some misguided desire to remain relevant. The Lakers aren't about relevancy as a 3-5 seed that wouldn't stand a legitimate shot at a championship. To win championships and build dynasties, the correct pieces have to be in place.
Riley exhibited patience and won in 2010 FA. It's also worth noting that the Spurs would never have been in the position to win championships if not for the injury of David Robinson resulting in the lottery pick of Duncan. Could the Lakers similarly benefit from Kobe's injury this year and draft a franchise player?
A franchise player on a rookie contract, superstar/arguably best player in the league Durant, superstar power-forward/elite rebounding force Love, and champion/leader/veteran Kobe. These four players alone have all the ingredients to the establishment of a dynasty (with Bryant retiring, the dynasty would still continue because Love/Durant in late 20's and potentially franchise player at age 24 would make a formidable Big 3). That's not even considering how they would still have loads of cap space to solidify the bench. The Lakers just need to sell Love first and then Durant. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I think a little of both. He wanted the money and he wants the ring, so he is trusting the FO to do what it can to get the roster that is needed. Only I believe that we think he needs more help then he thinks he needs. |
Do you think that Kobe and Pelinka did some Whatif scenarios on what the FO could and couldn't do for improving the roster at various salary levels for Kobe?
Kobe taking the large extension last Fall makes sense if he considers himself an employee. From what he has said recently about his desire to be informed about trades and for the FO to really do something this Summer to field a competitive team next season, he is projecting himself as a partner rather than the employee that signed the large extension last Fall. |
According to Ireland that is what happened, the Lakers presented Kobe and Pelinka with several scenarios with Kobe making various salaries and then the FO implying what they thought they could do with the remaining cap space. The contract Kobe signed was the one that they thought was best. |
From the outside, it appears that the contract they negotiated was along the same basic guidelines of 99% of sports contracts....it provided the most money.
If there was much concern on Kobe's behalf of what the rest of the team would look like or what its championship chances were, the timing and size of the contract would have been much different. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| salami wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | salami wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | salami wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I don't know that they lied to Kobe. I think that their future plans will be finalized on draft night, that which player they get will affect their future plans. I have no idea what proposal they tacked onto Kobe's 2-year, $48 mil contract option. |
I guess what I'm trying to get at is ... one of the 3 things happened.
1) Kobe signed that contract expecting to contend in the next two years
or
2) Kobe signed it knowing there is a much longer term plan ahead.
or
3) Kobe didn't care, he just wanted the money
If it is #1, then he may be delusional.
If it is #2, then he may have early onset Alzheimer's given his recent rant.
If it is #3, then I'm sorely disappointed. |
Kobe sees the front office as so dysfunctional, he could play for veterans minimum and still not sniff a championship with the Lakers. Consider that facts at hand: worst season in Laker history, losing prime assets for no return at all, clean sweep firing of championship staff, suggesting Dantoni for coach next season as a realistic option, letting Phil get away not once but twice, etc. The Lakers are a 2nd class team compared to the new generation of NBA superpowers and the current front office has everything to do with it. And its not all just bad luck and bad timing because terrible choices were made that the excuses do not justify.
Kobe would be a sucker to give Jim a discount just so he could waste more of his life like he did for the past 2 years. He deserves better than this, but at least he got financial compensation. |
So why is he hooting and hollering about not waiting around another year to contend again then?!!?
Do you think maybe it has something to do with the medication he is on or maybe he has finally lost his marbles? Early onset senility perhaps? |
Because thats how a champion competitor thinks. No excuses. They offered a deal and he accepted. Just because they overpaid because they are weak doesn't make them exempt from making the best moves to put us in the best position to win. That meant bringing in a championship staff. Not firing them all or letting other franchises hire them away. Also not marginalizing talent like Dwight, Pau, Jordan Hill, Kaman, and everyone who could have filled a role on a contending team by backing an idiot for a coach.
This team is not serious about winning and good on Kobe for lighting a fire under their butts and not accepting this crap sandwich they are feeding us. |
What? No excuses? What does that even mean?
And how can a guy who basically didn't even play all season say no excuses? That doesn't make any sense. No excuses right?
This is the same guy who had Steve Nash, Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol and almost missed the playoffs! No excuses right?
There are excuses and there are reasons. Big difference. Which is exactly why taking a contract that obliterates 40% of your teams cap space and then whining about no excuses makes no sense. If the Lakers can't improve this next season, Kobe's contract is not an excuse, it is a reason. |
An excuse is something that is trying to be passed off as justification for why you arent doing what you are supposed to be doing. Like when you say "we cant win because of Kobe's contract is too big." That is an excuse. And the way to deal with excuses is ask why is Kobe's contract so big and the trail leads to a problem in the front office. |
Ok. So you're saying Kobe has no excuses for not leading us to a championship next year right? |
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salami
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | salami wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | salami wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | salami wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I don't know that they lied to Kobe. I think that their future plans will be finalized on draft night, that which player they get will affect their future plans. I have no idea what proposal they tacked onto Kobe's 2-year, $48 mil contract option. |
I guess what I'm trying to get at is ... one of the 3 things happened.
1) Kobe signed that contract expecting to contend in the next two years
or
2) Kobe signed it knowing there is a much longer term plan ahead.
or
3) Kobe didn't care, he just wanted the money
If it is #1, then he may be delusional.
If it is #2, then he may have early onset Alzheimer's given his recent rant.
If it is #3, then I'm sorely disappointed. |
Kobe sees the front office as so dysfunctional, he could play for veterans minimum and still not sniff a championship with the Lakers. Consider that facts at hand: worst season in Laker history, losing prime assets for no return at all, clean sweep firing of championship staff, suggesting Dantoni for coach next season as a realistic option, letting Phil get away not once but twice, etc. The Lakers are a 2nd class team compared to the new generation of NBA superpowers and the current front office has everything to do with it. And its not all just bad luck and bad timing because terrible choices were made that the excuses do not justify.
Kobe would be a sucker to give Jim a discount just so he could waste more of his life like he did for the past 2 years. He deserves better than this, but at least he got financial compensation. |
So why is he hooting and hollering about not waiting around another year to contend again then?!!?
Do you think maybe it has something to do with the medication he is on or maybe he has finally lost his marbles? Early onset senility perhaps? |
Because thats how a champion competitor thinks. No excuses. They offered a deal and he accepted. Just because they overpaid because they are weak doesn't make them exempt from making the best moves to put us in the best position to win. That meant bringing in a championship staff. Not firing them all or letting other franchises hire them away. Also not marginalizing talent like Dwight, Pau, Jordan Hill, Kaman, and everyone who could have filled a role on a contending team by backing an idiot for a coach.
This team is not serious about winning and good on Kobe for lighting a fire under their butts and not accepting this crap sandwich they are feeding us. |
What? No excuses? What does that even mean?
And how can a guy who basically didn't even play all season say no excuses? That doesn't make any sense. No excuses right?
This is the same guy who had Steve Nash, Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol and almost missed the playoffs! No excuses right?
There are excuses and there are reasons. Big difference. Which is exactly why taking a contract that obliterates 40% of your teams cap space and then whining about no excuses makes no sense. If the Lakers can't improve this next season, Kobe's contract is not an excuse, it is a reason. |
An excuse is something that is trying to be passed off as justification for why you arent doing what you are supposed to be doing. Like when you say "we cant win because of Kobe's contract is too big." That is an excuse. And the way to deal with excuses is ask why is Kobe's contract so big and the trail leads to a problem in the front office. |
Ok. So you're saying Kobe has no excuses for not leading us to a championship next year right? |
Finally you are thinking like a winner. Welcome to the club
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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LINK
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thejet24
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: |
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If Lakers don't do anything this off season, if I'm the Knick, I offer Amare and Chandler for Kobe.
Talk about a show lol
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| thejet24 wrote: | If Lakers don't do anything this off season, if I'm the Knick, I offer Amare and Chandler for Kobe.
Talk about a show lol |
Oh, you're the knick and the knack buddy. |
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l4kerz
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| thejet24 wrote: | If Lakers don't do anything this off season, if I'm the Knick, I offer Amare and Chandler for Kobe.
Talk about a show lol |
I'm having similar thoughts. What if Kobe asks to be traded? I think MDA's system is too much running for Kobe. The triangle suits him better. Knicks would probably offer Amare, Shumpert, and Tim Hardway Jr. I believe the Knicks have no more draft pics to give. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| l4kerz wrote: | | thejet24 wrote: | If Lakers don't do anything this off season, if I'm the Knick, I offer Amare and Chandler for Kobe.
Talk about a show lol |
I'm having similar thoughts. What if Kobe asks to be traded? I think MDA's system is too much running for Kobe. The triangle suits him better. Knicks would probably offer Amare, Shumpert, and Tim Hardway Jr. I believe the Knicks have no more draft pics to give. |
I'm sure that Kobe would love being on a team that is even further away from winning than the Lakers. |
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Just curious. Is there any new info on how Kobe's rehab is going? I haven't heard anything in a while, perhaps because there's nothing new to report, or perhaps because it really doesn't matter at this stage of the game.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | Just curious. Is there any new info on how Kobe's rehab is going? I haven't heard anything in a while, perhaps because there's nothing new to report, or perhaps because it really doesn't matter at this stage of the game. |
I hear he's in that dark jail pit in the latest batman movie. He's almost ready to make the jump but he fallen a few times. He'll get out soon
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ElginBaylor wrote: | | Just curious. Is there any new info on how Kobe's rehab is going? I haven't heard anything in a while, perhaps because there's nothing new to report, or perhaps because it really doesn't matter at this stage of the game. |
I hear he's in that dark jail pit in the latest batman movie. He's almost ready to make the jump but he fallen a few times. He'll get out soon |
So he's still wearing the safety line.
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Hector the Pup
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | Just curious. Is there any new info on how Kobe's rehab is going? I haven't heard anything in a while, perhaps because there's nothing new to report, or perhaps because it really doesn't matter at this stage of the game. |
Last I heard, he was cleared to start running a couple weeks ago. |
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mj32
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Wasn't he supposed to address the crowd tonight? It would have been nice to have him on the bench with his teammates for the last home game. |
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LandsbergerRules
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Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ElginBaylor wrote: | | Just curious. Is there any new info on how Kobe's rehab is going? I haven't heard anything in a while, perhaps because there's nothing new to report, or perhaps because it really doesn't matter at this stage of the game. |
I hear he's in that dark jail pit in the latest batman movie. He's almost ready to make the jump but he fallen a few times. He'll get out soon |
Nash, Pau, and the other injured Lakers are screaming that weird chant as Kobe is climbing out of the pit.
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kobe_luver
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mj32 wrote: | | Wasn't he supposed to address the crowd tonight? It would have been nice to have him on the bench with his teammates for the last home game. |
I have been wondering about this since Swaggy P addressed the fans tonight instead of Kobe...and he wasn't even there with his team in their last home game of the season.
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LKR
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think Kobe was ever re-injured. One hell of a coincidence this mysterious injury happens early on in a season where the Lakers still capitalize for losing in a top draft. He sacrificed a year of climbing records but top pick + extra healing time for that achilles going into summer for training is looking at the big picture. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe isn't getting traded. When both sides agreed to that deal, they bound themselves to each other for the next two years. That contract is immovable. If Kobe really wanted to leave, they'd have to agree to a buyout. |
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kobe_luver
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Kobe isn't getting traded. When both sides agreed to that deal, they bound themselves to each other for the next two years. That contract is immovable. If Kobe really wanted to leave, they'd have to agree to a buyout. |
Have you seen the contract? We don't know what's in it...the stipulations. We don't know if this new contract has a no trade clause in it. Plus, if he wants to leave he can waive that if it is there. I think if Kobe doesn't see changes he likes he might want out. His disappearing for so long is really odd. It's like he's divorced himself from the Lakers for now. Not being there tonight was not normal. His not giving the speech to the fans before the game wasn't either. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| kobe_luver wrote: |
Have you seen the contract? We don't know what's in it...the stipulations. We don't know if this new contract has a no trade clause in it. Plus, if he wants to leave he can waive that if it is there. |
The salary numbers for the next two seasons are enough to scare off most teams. Additional factors such as Kobe wanting to be on a contender and also in a major market whittles down the remaining list even more. Other than the Nets and perhaps the Knicks, I don't know what other teams that would want Kobe and that Kobe would want to be traded to.*
| kobe_luver wrote: |
I think if Kobe doesn't see changes he likes he might want out.
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While not completely a Gilded Cage situation, there is some similarity to it.
Edit:
There might be some new restrictions in the CBA that would impair the ability of large salary teams to trade for Kobe. Too tired to research it at the moment.
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* A buyout scenario is different than a trade scenario. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | kobe_luver wrote: |
Have you seen the contract? We don't know what's in it...the stipulations. We don't know if this new contract has a no trade clause in it. Plus, if he wants to leave he can waive that if it is there. |
The salary numbers for the next two seasons are enough to scare off most teams. Additional factors such as Kobe wanting to be on a contender and also in a major market whittles down the remaining list even more. Other than the Nets and perhaps the Knicks, I don't know what other teams that would want Kobe and that Kobe would want to be traded to.*
| kobe_luver wrote: |
I think if Kobe doesn't see changes he likes he might want out.
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While not completely a Gilded Cage situation, there is some similarity to it.
Edit:
There might be some new restrictions in the CBA that would impair the ability of large salary teams to trade for Kobe. Too tired to research it at the moment.
The only restrictions would be making a legal trade salary wise. No special restrictions.
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* A buyout scenario is different than a trade scenario. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| kobe_luver wrote: | | mj32 wrote: | | Wasn't he supposed to address the crowd tonight? It would have been nice to have him on the bench with his teammates for the last home game. |
I have been wondering about this since Swaggy P addressed the fans tonight instead of Kobe...and he wasn't even there with his team in their last home game of the season.
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Well, why would Kobe address the fans? He hasn't played all season. Swaggy P has.
I agree it would have been nice for Kobe to be there with his teammates all season long, but I don't think it would be real fair to have him address the fans while guys who have been there all year are left in the dust. |
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kobe_luver
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kobe_luver wrote: | | mj32 wrote: | | Wasn't he supposed to address the crowd tonight? It would have been nice to have him on the bench with his teammates for the last home game. |
I have been wondering about this since Swaggy P addressed the fans tonight instead of Kobe...and he wasn't even there with his team in their last home game of the season.
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Well, why would Kobe address the fans? He hasn't played all season. Swaggy P has.
I agree it would have been nice for Kobe to be there with his teammates all season long, but I don't think it would be real fair to have him address the fans while guys who have been there all year are left in the dust. |
All the players know Kobe is the face of the Lakers. I'm sure they wouldn't have been offended. Still doesn't explain why he wasn't there for his teammates and the fans for the last home game of the season. I also heard that Kobe is not doing the final meeting and interview for the end of season when all the others are. He will meet Kup at some private/secret later time. Why is he hiding instead of helping pump up the fans for next season? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| kobe_luver wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kobe_luver wrote: | | mj32 wrote: | | Wasn't he supposed to address the crowd tonight? It would have been nice to have him on the bench with his teammates for the last home game. |
I have been wondering about this since Swaggy P addressed the fans tonight instead of Kobe...and he wasn't even there with his team in their last home game of the season.
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Well, why would Kobe address the fans? He hasn't played all season. Swaggy P has.
I agree it would have been nice for Kobe to be there with his teammates all season long, but I don't think it would be real fair to have him address the fans while guys who have been there all year are left in the dust. |
All the players know Kobe is the face of the Lakers. I'm sure they wouldn't have been offended. Still doesn't explain why he wasn't there for his teammates and the fans for the last home game of the season. I also heard that Kobe is not doing the final meeting and interview for the end of season when all the others are. He will meet Kup at some private/secret later time. Why is he hiding instead of helping pump up the fans for next season? |
Who knows. By now we should all know Kobe marches to the beat of his own drum.
And for all we know, Kobe said to Swaggy P, hey you've been carrying this team all year, you go out there and address the fans. If Kobe did do that, then I'd say it's a classy move especially since he wasn't able to show up all year. |
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kobe_luver
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kobe_luver wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kobe_luver wrote: | | mj32 wrote: | | Wasn't he supposed to address the crowd tonight? It would have been nice to have him on the bench with his teammates for the last home game. |
I have been wondering about this since Swaggy P addressed the fans tonight instead of Kobe...and he wasn't even there with his team in their last home game of the season.
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Well, why would Kobe address the fans? He hasn't played all season. Swaggy P has.
I agree it would have been nice for Kobe to be there with his teammates all season long, but I don't think it would be real fair to have him address the fans while guys who have been there all year are left in the dust. |
All the players know Kobe is the face of the Lakers. I'm sure they wouldn't have been offended. Still doesn't explain why he wasn't there for his teammates and the fans for the last home game of the season. I also heard that Kobe is not doing the final meeting and interview for the end of season when all the others are. He will meet Kup at some private/secret later time. Why is he hiding instead of helping pump up the fans for next season? |
Who knows. By now we should all know Kobe marches to the beat of his own drum.
And for all we know, Kobe said to Swaggy P, hey you've been carrying this team all year, you go out there and address the fans. If Kobe did do that, then I'd say it's a classy move especially since he wasn't able to show up all year. |
A classy move is sitting courtside with his team for the last home game....which he didn't do. I'm sure the Laker FO would've wanted him there to excite the fans for next season. I guarantee Staples would've had more sellouts this season if Kobe would've been on the sideline for games. |
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