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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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NastyNas_87 wrote: | cKPayasoLoco wrote: | Any similarities to brand for randle. We all say zbo but could he be a Elton type career |
why do people keep comparing him to guys with wingspans well above 7'2"? the only succesful PFs with Randle alligator arms are David Lee, Blake Griffin, and Kevin Love. they are the only PFs without wingspans well above 7 feet that have been successful.
I don't see his game as similar to any of them, which is why I think he'll be a bust. |
Maybe because wingspan is not the end all/be all? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: |
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KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:28 am Post subject: |
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I totally understand the wingspan argument against Randle. And here's a good article about that.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/1/2/5258332/julius-randle-nba-draft-prospect-2013
I think it will be an obstacle for him, but not one that will render him useless in the NBA. For comparison's sake:
Al Horford: 8'11 (standing reach); 7'0 (wingspan)
Blake Griffin: 8'9, 6'11
RANDLE: 8'9.5, 6'11
Kevin Love: 8'10, 6'11
Udonis Haslem: 8'11, 6'11.
Kobe has small hands. Did that prevent him from being an all-time great?
Blake/Love have unfavorable measurements for PF; both are all NBA players.
Horford was a multi-All Star and Haslem has carved out a nice career despite being "undersized."
It's about how the player deals with their "deficiency." Randle has shown that he won't shirk away from obstacles. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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TheElectronica Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Posts: 1392
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:38 am Post subject: |
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LakersNewEra wrote: | Lol, how come Randle is so underrated? He should be a top 3 pick easily. The guy is a sure thing. There is not a single aspect of his game that's worse than Zach Randolph's. We're talking a perrenial all star here, guys. |
Because this draft is loaded in terms of talent despite everyone trying to say it is overrated. Randle is not top 3 because Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid are just better prospects. All 3 have shown just as much as Randle did but have higher upside. However, that is not a slight on Randle.
I just find it ridiculous that people are willing to write off Randle for an inch or two shortness of his wingspan yet completely give Parker a pass. Parker has a 7'0 wingspan and a 8'8 standing reach. Randle has 6'11 wingspan and 8'9.5 standing reach. Parker's a consensus top 4 on all of the draft boards yet Randle drops down to as low as 8 or 9? One article someone posted said Randle's a late lottery prospect? Or how Gordon has the same exact wingspan and half an inch advantage and the Randle detractors have Gordon in the top 6, Randle in the top 9 only? |
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Nightwalker Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2013 Posts: 2739
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Any of top 4 prospects Wiggins, Embidd, Exum and Parker would be ecstatic if any of those four became Lakers. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:42 am Post subject: |
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TheElectronica wrote: | LakersNewEra wrote: | Lol, how come Randle is so underrated? He should be a top 3 pick easily. The guy is a sure thing. There is not a single aspect of his game that's worse than Zach Randolph's. We're talking a perrenial all star here, guys. |
Because this draft is loaded in terms of talent despite everyone trying to say it is overrated. Randle is not top 3 because Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid are just better prospects. All 3 have shown just as much as Randle did but have higher upside. However, that is not a slight on Randle.
I just find it ridiculous that people are willing to write off Randle for an inch or two shortness of his wingspan yet completely give Parker a pass. Parker has a 7'0 wingspan and a 8'8 standing reach. Randle has 6'11 wingspan and 8'9.5 standing reach. Parker's a consensus top 4 on all of the draft boards yet Randle drops down to as low as 8 or 9? One article someone posted said Randle's a late lottery prospect? Or how Gordon has the same exact wingspan and half an inch advantage and the Randle detractors have Gordon in the top 6, Randle in the top 9 only? |
Excellent points.
Re: Parker, I guess most people already concede that he will be a defensive nightmare but believe he has a mismatch on the offensive end. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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SickwithIt1010 Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 May 2011 Posts: 353
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:52 am Post subject: |
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TheElectronica wrote: | Lol, how come Randle is so underrated? He should be a top 3 pick easily. The guy is a sure thing. There is not a single aspect of his game that's worse than Zach Randolph's. We're talking a perrenial all star here, guys. |
Except the whole part where he isn't. |
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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:00 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
The only players that have higher upside than Vonleh in the draft are Wiggins, Embiid, and Exum. _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: |
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KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
The only players that have higher upside than Vonleh in the draft are Wiggins, Embiid, and Exum. |
I know it isn't a technical measurement like wingspan, but watching a lot of Indiana games, Vonleh has the ability to always be around the ball on both sides of the floor. That isn't something that can be taught or coached or even measured, it is basic instinct. That is the reason I am more impressed with him than some others. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
The only players that have higher upside than Vonleh in the draft are Wiggins, Embiid, and Exum. |
I know it isn't a technical measurement like wingspan, but watching a lot of Indiana games, Vonleh has the ability to always be around the ball on both sides of the floor. That isn't something that can be taught or coached or even measured, it is basic instinct. That is the reason I am more impressed with him than some others. |
YES, that's what I meant by a very controlled game. He has a knack to be in the right position at the right time. He has good instincts in a two man game. Imagine a healthy Kobe running a two man game w/this kid. SICK! _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
The only players that have higher upside than Vonleh in the draft are Wiggins, Embiid, and Exum. |
I know it isn't a technical measurement like wingspan, but watching a lot of Indiana games, Vonleh has the ability to always be around the ball on both sides of the floor. That isn't something that can be taught or coached or even measured, it is basic instinct. That is the reason I am more impressed with him than some others. |
He would be a great fit if we had a better roster around us. To me he's PJ Brown/Horace Grant, and every championship team needs one of those kinds of players. But we are lacking in star power too, and Vonleh isn't one of those players.
But if we are at 7-8 pick, he would be the best pick at that range no doubt. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:41 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
The only players that have higher upside than Vonleh in the draft are Wiggins, Embiid, and Exum. |
I know it isn't a technical measurement like wingspan, but watching a lot of Indiana games, Vonleh has the ability to always be around the ball on both sides of the floor. That isn't something that can be taught or coached or even measured, it is basic instinct. That is the reason I am more impressed with him than some others. |
I know exactly what you mean, and completely agree. It's a skill in and of itself. (can't speak to Vonleh in this respect though, as I didn't watch a full game of him this year) |
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LeBronte Jest Star Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1236
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Looks like Exum is as good as gone:
Quote: | Jameer Nelson's time as the Magic's starting point guard may be coming to an end soon, as ESPN's Chad Ford believes the Magic will take a point guard in the upcoming draft.
"They want a point guard," said Ford. "They experimented with Victor Oladipo there, but preferably they get a young player that is more of a true point. [Dante] Exum and Marcus Smart are the guys for them." With Nelson's contract only guaranteed for $2 million, he may be an expendable commodity this summer. The Magic have a 15.6 percent chance of winning the lottery, making it likely they will have the opportunity to draft either Smart or Exum this June.
Source: Orlando Magic Daily Apr 24 - 3:02 PM |
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MIMLaker Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 10015 Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
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If we kept Pau at a reasonable rate (no more than $8-9M), and got a guy like Vonleh playing next to him, with legit length and strength, and either Melo (or maybe Deng) at the 3, I think we'd be in much better shape than this year.
We simply do not have any legit, quality FORWARDS on this team. Wes is a rotation player, at best, and Kelly doesn't board well enough for his size.
Put a Swiss-Army knife type guy at the 4 to fill in the gaps in Pau's game, and a quality starter at the 3, and we're back in the playoffs.
MIM |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Star power is so fickle. It is very possible that none of these guys develop into a star. But several very well could. There are so many variables that go into making a player a star beyond that player's talents. Obviously work ethic and desire, but also what franchise the player goes to. Kyrie Irving might be a top player in the league with a different franchise, but in Cleveland he (reportedly) can do what he wants and know there are no ramifications. Does one think that Kwame would have developed into the same players if he had been drafted by the Lakers? Instead of being chided and ignored like he was in Washington, imagine if he worked with Kareem from the beginning. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:51 am Post subject: |
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I'm just saying some people have Vonleh pegged to be a 20/10, star scoring power forward (even some saying he's a center). I'd temper that with more conservative projections of a slightly better scoring PJ Brown/Ho Grant, two very good players. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
The only players that have higher upside than Vonleh in the draft are Wiggins, Embiid, and Exum. |
I know it isn't a technical measurement like wingspan, but watching a lot of Indiana games, Vonleh has the ability to always be around the ball on both sides of the floor. That isn't something that can be taught or coached or even measured, it is basic instinct. That is the reason I am more impressed with him than some others. |
He would be a great fit if we had a better roster around us. To me he's PJ Brown/Horace Grant, and every championship team needs one of those kinds of players. But we are lacking in star power too, and Vonleh isn't one of those players.
But if we are at 7-8 pick, he would be the best pick at that range no doubt. |
I like the Horford comparison better than those two, but I can see some of Grant/Brown in him. I don't think he's ever going to be a first option scorer, but he has a lot of tools. Will be interesting to see where he measures out. I have a hard time buying that standing reach figure. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: |
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I think the 10 is possible, but doubt the 20. 14 and 10 with good defense and I will be thrilled. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
The only players that have higher upside than Vonleh in the draft are Wiggins, Embiid, and Exum. |
I know it isn't a technical measurement like wingspan, but watching a lot of Indiana games, Vonleh has the ability to always be around the ball on both sides of the floor. That isn't something that can be taught or coached or even measured, it is basic instinct. That is the reason I am more impressed with him than some others. |
He would be a great fit if we had a better roster around us. To me he's PJ Brown/Horace Grant, and every championship team needs one of those kinds of players. But we are lacking in star power too, and Vonleh isn't one of those players.
But if we are at 7-8 pick, he would be the best pick at that range no doubt. |
I like the Horford comparison better than those two, but I can see some of Grant/Brown in him. I don't think he's ever going to be a first option scorer, but he has a lot of tools. Will be interesting to see where he measures out. I have a hard time buying that standing reach figure. |
Yeah. Seemed strange that his standing reach was that low. But he needs to figure out whether to be bulky or light and agile. The bulk really hurt his game this season IMO. He looked lethargic a bit and slower than he was advertised.
Horford isn't a bad comparison, but Horford was regularly handling the ball at Florida. I haven't seen Vonleh do that so I can't comment. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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MIMLaker wrote: | If we kept Pau at a reasonable rate (no more than $8-9M), and got a guy like Vonleh playing next to him, with legit length and strength, and either Melo (or maybe Deng) at the 3, I think we'd be in much better shape than this year.
We simply do not have any legit, quality FORWARDS on this team. Wes is a rotation player, at best, and Kelly doesn't board well enough for his size.
Put a Swiss-Army knife type guy at the 4 to fill in the gaps in Pau's game, and a quality starter at the 3, and we're back in the playoffs.
MIM |
If LA wants to take a run at someone like Love later, but still compete now, you could go with Pau on a 1 year deal (or 2 if you want to scrimp elsewhere for a year, remembering that you can only carry about 15 mil in contracts forward into 2015 with Kobe and the DP in order to have room for Love), maybe add a guy like Brand, and mix them in with Vonleh, Kelly, and Sacre. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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rock0100 Star Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 5387
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:35 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
Wow! I had no idea Collison could be a free agent this summer. I agree though, if we add Vonleh, Stephenson and one of those two PGs we will be much better next year.
Can Vonleh play center? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:38 am Post subject: |
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rock0100 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
Wow! I had no idea Collison could be a free agent this summer. I agree though, if we add Vonleh, Stephenson and one of those two PGs we will be much better next year.
Can Vonleh play center? |
I don't think Vonleh should play center full time. More like a backup center role. He put on 20-25 pounds this year and it hampered his quickness/vertical game. If we had him, I'd rather see him condition his body to be a more agile PF. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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USCandLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 19955
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:43 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | rock0100 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
Wow! I had no idea Collison could be a free agent this summer. I agree though, if we add Vonleh, Stephenson and one of those two PGs we will be much better next year.
Can Vonleh play center? |
I don't think Vonleh should play center full time. More like a backup center role. He put on 20-25 pounds this year and it hampered his quickness/vertical game. If we had him, I'd rather see him condition his body to be a more agile PF. |
Or maybe he was going through a growth spurt that hampered his explosiveness. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:45 am Post subject: |
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USCandLakers wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | rock0100 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
Wow! I had no idea Collison could be a free agent this summer. I agree though, if we add Vonleh, Stephenson and one of those two PGs we will be much better next year.
Can Vonleh play center? |
I don't think Vonleh should play center full time. More like a backup center role. He put on 20-25 pounds this year and it hampered his quickness/vertical game. If we had him, I'd rather see him condition his body to be a more agile PF. |
Or maybe he was going through a growth spurt that hampered his explosiveness. |
He bulked up, probably b/c Indiana wanted him to play center. Compare his college/high school tapes and you see a stark difference in explosiveness. At his size, bulking up too much isn't beneficial IMO. He should be aiming to play more PF than NBA center. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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USCandLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 19955
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | USCandLakers wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | rock0100 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Starting to like the idea of getting Noah Vonleh at #6
Watching video of him the kid plays "smart". Hands up all the time on defense, very controlled game, runs the floor well.
Top it off w/freakish length and size. |
I agree, walking away this offseason with Vonleh, Stephenson or Lowry, and Collison if we don't get Lowry, would be a good offseason. |
Wow! I had no idea Collison could be a free agent this summer. I agree though, if we add Vonleh, Stephenson and one of those two PGs we will be much better next year.
Can Vonleh play center? |
I don't think Vonleh should play center full time. More like a backup center role. He put on 20-25 pounds this year and it hampered his quickness/vertical game. If we had him, I'd rather see him condition his body to be a more agile PF. |
Or maybe he was going through a growth spurt that hampered his explosiveness. |
He bulked up, probably b/c Indiana wanted him to play center. Compare his college/high school tapes and you see a stark difference in explosiveness. At his size, bulking up too much isn't beneficial IMO. He should be aiming to play more PF than NBA center. |
I know, but didn't he also grow 2 inches? That could be factor as well. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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