Mark Cuban "There's no reason for the NCAA to exist. None."
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GonzagaAlum
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:23 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

A couple things here about the seasonal advantages of minor league baseball:

1. The minor leagues as they exist today are only a faint shadow of the minor leagues that once were. In fact, a few of the minor leagues in the olden days were all but indistinguishable from the major leagues (the PCL is an example of this). Anyway, it would not surprise me if the current number of minor league teams (about 120 full season teams, plus some independent teams) are one-tenth of what the minors used to be.

2. It is far from clear that the current minor leagues would survive without the support of major league baseball. There are a few teams that do very well in mid-sized markets like Sacramento and Austin. However, a big part of the appeal of minor league baseball is that it is cheap.

While minor league baseball may have a seasonal advantage (though football is pretty well underway by August these days, and the NBA is still going well into June), I'm not sold that this is an important factor. The key is that MLB directly and indirectly subsidizes the minor league teams and keeps them afloat. This is what we would need for a viable minor league in basketball.


But the cheap makes it family friendly. The kids being out of school makes it family friendly... You take your kid out to a game that finishes at 10 in March... You're going to have a school problem in the morning. If you take your kid out to a baseball game that goes until 10 in the summer... You'll likely be able to sleep in another hour as a parent - because your kiddo will be zonked.

While it's easy to focus on the macro realities... the micro realities are significant. Baseball is largely associated with "childhood" because it's a summer dominant sport.

Yes the NBA goes on until June... but as much as I love my 6 year old daughter who also enjoys Laker games with me... I'm not going to throw out hundreds of dollars for her to watch a playoff game at Staples. Maybe get into a regular season game against the Kings at face... but not blow up my wallet to get her into a playoff game.

Also to quickly add.. do you think the NBA wants a fellow NBA product (a minor league) having its playoffs go on head to head with its own playoffs? They'd cut the cord at around the same time March Madness is wrapping up... which once again is problematic... because people have more college loyalty than to the Reno Bighorns.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject:

FWIW

Quote:
It’s obvious that new commissioner Adam Silver has made the league’s age limit the foremost topic in his opening weeks at the helm. Silver has not camouflaged his desire to increase the age limit to 20 but is open to debate from the players’ union and even the NCAA.

Silver said he has spoken with NCAA president Mark Emmert about participating in discussions that would create a more feasible system for players entering the draft. Because so many college coaches complained about players who wanted to explore the draft waiting until June to decide whether to leave or come back, the NCAA moved up the date to declare.

The NCAA’s deadline for players to withdraw from draft consideration is April 16, while the NBA deadline is June 16. Silver suggested more uniform laws with the NBA and NCAA, which would work wonders for fringe draft players who may want to return to school in May.

Privately, the NBA has a major issue with “one-and-done” players entering the league and clogging up rosters. With the new collective bargaining agreement emphasizing more price-effective contracts, owners need more production from rookies. Cleveland’s Anthony Bennett, who has experienced a disastrous rookie season as the first overall pick, is a prime example of a player unprepared for the NBA rigors.

And if the argument is for the owners to avoid drafting one-and-done players, well, that may be difficult when 15 of the best 20 prospects are freshman entries.

“The next step is for us to formulate a proposal,” said Silver, who visited Boston last week. “What I’ve been saying internally at the NBA is let’s make sure we have a better understanding of the issue. It’s a lot more complicated than just saying 19 to 20. College needs to have a seat at the table because there are various rules they can address as well as to the window in which you can hire an agent, maintaining eligibility, potentially insurance for kids who are forgoing college and becoming a pro. It’s got to be more of a holistic approach, but ultimately there’s nothing we can do without our players association.”

Silver needs cooperation from the NBPA and wants to institute a change before either side can opt out of the collective bargaining agreement in 2017. The question is whether Silver will push for a rule that would allow players to hire agents or advisers and retain their college eligibility. Of course, the NCAA would have a major influence on that topic.

“I think it needs to be studied. I don’t know enough about it and all of the ramifications for such a broad-based change like that,” Silver said. “I certainly know I’ve talked to enough D-1 coaches directly who have a long list of issues they would like to see addressed. I’m sure my coaches have a long list of issues they would like to see me address, so in fairness to the NCAA, these are highly complex issues they’re dealing with. There’s no doubt the right discussions haven’t taken place where all the interested parties are at the table. My sense is we could figure out something that’s better than the current one-and-done system.”

Silver also mentioned having representatives from youth basketball and AAU programs in discussions. The NFL has recently made concerted efforts to form branches with youth football. The NBA has made little acknowledgment of the ever-growing and powerful AAU programs.

“The whole culture of youth basketball and how that plays into our one-and-done society,” Silver said when asked about why he would want to involve the AAU. “The pressure some of the young players feel to come out right away. There’s a notion that maybe has become currency that if you’re not a lottery pick in your freshman year, somehow you’re not as good. When you could be a lottery pick in your first year but you could have a better career if you stayed in school. So, I think all of those things we need to discuss.”


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/03/16/gerald-green-former-celtic-finds-home-phoenix-sunday-basketball-notes/VImZPYd7W8IUk9YjlPr6iL/story.html
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject:

He's absolutely right. It's all about money with the NCAA-- it's completely illogical to make players go to college for a year.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
He's absolutely right. It's all about money with the NCAA-- it's completely illogical to make players go to college for a year.


No one is making players go to college for a year, especially not the NCAA. The NBA does have an age rule, but that has nothing to do with the NCAA. And the NBA rule does not say a player has to go to college.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject:

Cuban needs to shut his freaking pie hole up. Ever since he won 1 championship, he thinks he's the bees knees!

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/cuban-says-the-lakers-may-never-be-the-lakers-again-296373.html
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Mark Cuban "There's no reason for the NCAA to exist. None."

TrueLies wrote:
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/10538276/mark-cuban-says-nba-d-league-better-option-ncaa

Quote:
"I think what will end up happening -- and this is my opinion, not that of the league -- is if the colleges don't change from the one-and-done, we'll go after the one," Cuban said. "The NCAA rules are so hypocritical, there's absolutely no reason for a kid to go [to college], because he's not going to class [and] he's actually not even able to take advantage of all the fun because the first semester he starts playing basketball. So if the goal is just to graduate to the NBA or be an NBA player, go to the D-League."


what do you guys think? i suggest you read the whole article before jumping to conclusions


It's time to go the other way. Not a one-and-done, but three years and done. Like the NFL does it. Restores college basketball and immediately improves the NBA. Too many athletics young players with no skills turning the league into a daycare center.

More time in college would help create more bigs, too. I'm so sick of 6'9" wings dominating the NBA. It was more fun when there were a few goliaths, too.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:21 am    Post subject:

Here is what Calipari has to say on the subject, for whatever it's worth:

Quote:
Kentucky basketball coach John Calipari likens the NCAA to a dying superpower and believes the college-sports governing body faces extinction unless it embraces reform.

"The situation reminds me a little of the Soviet Union in its last years," Calipari writes in a forthcoming book. "It was still powerful. It could still hurt you. But you could see it crumbling, and it was just a matter of time before it either changed or ceased to exist."


Quote:
Among Calipari's suggestions for enhancing the life of college athletes is one that other high-profile coaches have recommended: a $3,000 to $5,000 stipend for players to cover the full cost of attending a university. So far, this policy shift has been voted down by smaller schools. Big 12 Conference commissioner Bob Bowlsby said Sunday the NCAA should consider redefining scholarships, "but the devil's in the details of that," he said. "It's not as easy to do as it may seem, even if we're willing, and we certainly are willing."

Calipari also lobbies for the NCAA to cover eligible players' insurance premiums and allow college athletes to accept loans against future earnings up to $50,000. Such a benefit currently violates the NCAA's amateurism rules.

Many of Calipari's recommendations reflect the growing movement to expand athlete rights. If a coach leaves his team, Calipari says, players should be permitted to transfer without sitting out for one season, as NCAA rules currently require. In addition, Calipari urges the NCAA to allow players the money for one round-trip flight home every year, access to lawyers and funds for formal attire to wear when representing the school.


http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303847804579479863693200386

While that's interesting, it also shows that Calipari is still thinking inside the box. He is still part of the NCAA's captive labor system, but he wants to be more humane about it. He isn't ready to re-envision the whole system, because after all he has become famous and wealthy through exploiting a captive labor system.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:52 am    Post subject:

If it is a captive labor system, it is made up of people who have chosen to be captive. There are alternatives, though they are limited. I would prefer to see there be more options.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:05 pm    Post subject:

Just an odd thought. What if we combine the D-League with the colleges. In other words, the College puts together a team that is combined of both students (Individuals who truly want to get a degree and are good enuf to make the team) and "hired guns" (high school graduate players who have no interest in college and just want a pathway to the NBA). The later would be payed for their services. The supporters of the college could care less whether they are actually students or not. They only care that they are on their team. The colleges still draw in huge crowds (make money). The colleges no longer have to waste time and energy trying to educate individuals who have no interest in higher learning. (the non-student players could live off campus and only show up for practice and games).The NBA still has a showcase for future talent and a draft system.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
If it is a captive labor system, it is made up of people who have chosen to be captive. There are alternatives, though they are limited. I would prefer to see there be more options.


I wonder why there aren't Euro teams recruiting high schoollers here in the States. It seems like they should have American ambassadors throwing money at them with 2-year deals.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject:

Dylandogg wrote:
Just an odd thought. What if we combine the D-League with the colleges. In other words, the College puts together a team that is combined of both students (Individuals who truly want to get a degree and are good enuf to make the team) and "hired guns" (high school graduate players who have no interest in college and just want a pathway to the NBA). The later would be payed for their services. The supporters of the college could care less whether they are actually students or not. They only care that they are on their team. The colleges still draw in huge crowds (make money). The colleges no longer have to waste time and energy trying to educate individuals who have no interest in higher learning. (the non-student players could live off campus and only show up for practice and games).The NBA still has a showcase for future talent and a draft system.


In order to do that, first of all the colleges would have to throw out the NCAA from administrating over sports. When enough colleges get out from under the NCAA then this will work.
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Jackobe
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:52 am    Post subject:

what Cuban said is probably true....

most of them don't go to class anyway, they get free passes from professors...

so what is the point of forcing them to go to college.....
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject:

as usual mr. cuban is on point.
sharp fellow.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:20 am    Post subject:

Many in this thread are still failing to notice the league would have to be subsidized. The college system benefits the NBA... the players get hyped up... colleges which have vast support communities get excited about a player... etc... then watch him in the pros...

There are quite a few times I've found myself watching NFL or NBA games not because I care about either team... but because I care about my college favorites.

You think Randle would have the same following and exposure for example if he was on the Reno Bighorns for a season or two to develop? Nope.

How about Jabari Parker at Duke? Nope.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject:

GonzagaAlum wrote:
Many in this thread are still failing to notice the league would have to be subsidized. The college system benefits the NBA... the players get hyped up... colleges which have vast support communities get excited about a player... etc... then watch him in the pros...

There are quite a few times I've found myself watching NFL or NBA games not because I care about either team... but because I care about my college favorites.

You think Randle would have the same following and exposure for example if he was on the Reno Bighorns for a season or two to develop? Nope.

How about Jabari Parker at Duke? Nope.


Isn't that a small number by definition?
Every first round pick likely comes from a different team so if you say there are 20 colleges every year sending 1-2 draft picks to the NBA, that's a small percentage of colleges in the United States.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Mark Cuban "There's no reason for the NCAA to exist. None."

VegasLakerFan wrote:
TrueLies wrote:
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/10538276/mark-cuban-says-nba-d-league-better-option-ncaa

Quote:
"I think what will end up happening -- and this is my opinion, not that of the league -- is if the colleges don't change from the one-and-done, we'll go after the one," Cuban said. "The NCAA rules are so hypocritical, there's absolutely no reason for a kid to go [to college], because he's not going to class [and] he's actually not even able to take advantage of all the fun because the first semester he starts playing basketball. So if the goal is just to graduate to the NBA or be an NBA player, go to the D-League."


what do you guys think? i suggest you read the whole article before jumping to conclusions


It's time to go the other way. Not a one-and-done, but three years and done. Like the NFL does it. Restores college basketball and immediately improves the NBA. Too many athletics young players with no skills turning the league into a daycare center.

More time in college would help create more bigs, too. I'm so sick of 6'9" wings dominating the NBA. It was more fun when there were a few goliaths, too.


Why 3 years? Why not 4? This country has rules against age discrimination.

vanexelent wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
If it is a captive labor system, it is made up of people who have chosen to be captive. There are alternatives, though they are limited. I would prefer to see there be more options.


I wonder why there aren't Euro teams recruiting high schoolers here in the States. It seems like they should have American ambassadors throwing money at them with 2-year deals.


NBA teams don't want to invest in scouting high schools. Why would poorer Euro teams want to do the same thing. Besides, contract lengths are meaningless. Every time a player wants to go home, they just force a buyout.

VLF, limited options basically means no choice.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:07 pm    Post subject:

An enterprising person with money might be wise to start a minor league in the US. Start out with 6-8 teams in major markets and have a season and playoffs.

As for the NCAA, Jabari Parker said it best, it sucks that you can't go into the team store and be able to afford to buy your own jersey.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Mark Cuban "There's no reason for the NCAA to exist. None."

l4kerz wrote:
VegasLakerFan wrote:
TrueLies wrote:
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/10538276/mark-cuban-says-nba-d-league-better-option-ncaa

Quote:
"I think what will end up happening -- and this is my opinion, not that of the league -- is if the colleges don't change from the one-and-done, we'll go after the one," Cuban said. "The NCAA rules are so hypocritical, there's absolutely no reason for a kid to go [to college], because he's not going to class [and] he's actually not even able to take advantage of all the fun because the first semester he starts playing basketball. So if the goal is just to graduate to the NBA or be an NBA player, go to the D-League."


what do you guys think? i suggest you read the whole article before jumping to conclusions


It's time to go the other way. Not a one-and-done, but three years and done. Like the NFL does it. Restores college basketball and immediately improves the NBA. Too many athletics young players with no skills turning the league into a daycare center.

More time in college would help create more bigs, too. I'm so sick of 6'9" wings dominating the NBA. It was more fun when there were a few goliaths, too.


Why 3 years? Why not 4? This country has rules against age discrimination.


Oh, terrific! Someone ought to tell the NFL then, since they've been violating those "age discrimination" rules for a long time.

Anyway- point is the game would be better off with more seasoned players coming in. Since the age discrimination rules you mentioned don't even remotely apply in this case, I think it'd be better to have a three year rule.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Mark Cuban "There's no reason for the NCAA to exist. None."

l4kerz wrote:
Why 3 years? Why not 4? This country has rules against age discrimination.


Yes, and they apply to people who are 40 or over.
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