Jerry West Says 2014 NBA Draft is a “Poor one”
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:27 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
This is the same Jerry West that drafted Kobe Bryant out of High School, right?
and why did he draft him out of high school. because he saw that this kid was more mature then most guys that were in the nba for 5 years. we're talking basketball maturity level and his love for the game was above those guys.

thats not the case MOST times. sure you have kg, kobe, and LBJ. but tmac wasnt ready to be honest. he could've spent a year in college. rashard lewis could've done a college stint.

sure these guys turned out to be ballers eventually but thats his point. if kobe didnt have to sit behind jones. he would've been a lbj like star from day one.

now granted because JW had the luxury of sitting kobe behind eddie jones(who he knew personally). it was a perfect scenario. the lakers were not depending on a kid to save them. they were grooming him. same with drew sitting behind gasol/odom more or less. the franchise is waiting on you to do well. so now we can groom you.

now a team like philly needs and needed a superstar like yesterday. a team like the cavs. better be glad lbj was had a grown mans game fresh out of high school. cause if not. they would've been in for a lot of dark years with this "promising player."

thats what jw is talking about.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject:

The man is shrewd and is setting someone up.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:33 am    Post subject:

i remember west also saying michael olowokandi was the clear cut best player in the draft the year that happened. sometimes even the greats are wrong, assuming he's even being sincere here.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:34 am    Post subject:

Everyone forgets how well Kandi was doing when he actually did pay attention to KAJ. He had no love for the game either.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:34 am    Post subject:

I trust Jerry West's eye for talent over the ESPN hype machine analysis that is motivated to exaggerate and sensationalize how good the draft class is. I've heard analysts comparing prospects to Hakeem or a young Michael Jordan, and that sounds a little suspicious.

It is a long shot that any one of these draftees will turn out to be the kind of player that will change the fortunes of the franchise that takes them.

I think you have to take Jerry West's word on this kind of thing because he was the one who had the vision to find the last once in a generation player. Its not like hes the kind of guy who thinks 10 people in a bar or horsetrack will have the same eye for analysis as anyone else.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject:

west was also high on that complete fraud white chocolate.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
This is the same Jerry West that drafted Kobe Bryant out of High School, right?

I was about to say that but I thought the thread would be locked - like 2 hrs ago.

First thing that popped into my mind - Jerry's greatest pick - greatest move as a GM was drafting someone who didn't want to go to College.

Come on Jerry. Lets not be that hypocritical.

As to why the league is watered down. Expansion. New rules. You don't let post players do their thing as easily, you have like 5-6 extra teams taking up spots and then you have a CBA that will kill you if you go over the lux tax. Yeah, of course the wealth will be spread out in terms of talent. Not everyone will load up. OKC could have had the greatest/most talented team in the NBA for another 6 years but had to choose and traded away a top 10-15 player in Harden. Teams are doing that more and more now, they know they can't afford loaded teams, so they try to build a team around 1-2 stars and a lot of role players. Others who don't have the stars, just plain tank. It's the affects of the CBA, Expansion and new rules, not so much lack of talent.

As for the draft, I don't know if Jerry is playing us or not, but it probably isn't a 2003 caliber draft. There may not even be a true #1 pick in this draft. But there's about 5-6 really good picks at the top, any and all of them could become all-stars down the road. Yes 2-3 years maybe down the road, but that's fine. Not like Kobe was a superstar before 3 years into the league, either.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
west was also high on that complete fraud white chocolate.


I think it's the West Virginia background.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:44 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
west was also high on that complete fraud white chocolate.


Then I guess West doesn't belong in that vaunted list of GMs who make every decision perfectly. Who do you have on that list?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:47 am    Post subject:

Personally, I don't think the league's watered down at all. Quite the opposite, actually. This is the slowest rate of expansion in the history of the NBA (1 team in the last 17 years), and in that period of time we've seen the greatest expansion in the talent pool in the history of the NBA, with the increased popularity of the international game. IMO, this is the best the league has ever been.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:48 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
This is the same Jerry West that drafted Kobe Bryant out of High School, right?


Yes. The same Kobe who had Jerry West saying he was the greatest prospect he's ever seen.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:49 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
west was also high on that complete fraud white chocolate.


Then I guess West doesn't belong in that vaunted list of GMs who make every decision perfectly. Who do you have on that list?


i said even the greats make mistakes.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
This is the same Jerry West that drafted Kobe Bryant out of High School, right?


That's right. The teenager who had played pick up games with actual NBA players and fared well. The guy who grew up with an NBA dad and has exposure to the league from his childhood.

I don't think Wiggins has that depth of exposure even now.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject:

I disagree with West when he says that the league is weaker than ever, but he's right about relying on 18 and 19 yr olds to change your fortunes.

Not only do a lot of these guys lack the fundamentals because they only went to college for one year, but they are also psychologically immature. Arguably the biggest reason you go to college is to be on your own and develop life skills. There's really no substitute for that. AAU ball does nothing to help these guys become men that can handle their responsibilities on and off the court. Even 2 solid years of college makes a big difference in maturity.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:12 am    Post subject:

dvdrdiscs wrote:
kaoss128 wrote:
Jerry really hurts his credibility on this one saying the league is the weakest he has ever seen it.



I don't think he's completely off-base. The league, overall is really diluted. It's easy to guess which team will make it to the end. Even in the 90's, there was a lot more competition since superstars weren't all scrounging to play together.

Individual talent-wise? The league is as strong as ever.


The league has always been that way. There has never really been a huge mystery about who is winning at the end. A lot of people say the 90s were the worst because it was Jordan's bulls vs the rest of the league.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject:

The dilution of the league is a product of the number of teams not of quality of players.

Drop 4 teams and you'll have a much more competitive NBA. I agree and disagree with him. There may be no Lebron - but looking at last years draft this is 20x that
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject:

The only team that resembles an 80s team is Miami with 3 bonafide HOFs.

Can't even say that about OKC.

The Lakers and Celtics used to run with 4.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject:

Lakers 71-72 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
This is the same Jerry West that drafted Kobe Bryant out of High School, right?


That's right. The teenager who had played pick up games with actual NBA players and fared well. The guy who grew up with an NBA dad and has exposure to the league from his childhood.

I don't think Wiggins has that depth of exposure even now.


Andrew Wiggins didn't grow up with an NBA dad and didn't have exposure to the league from his childhood?

Kobe Bryant was ready to contribute right away?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
I disagree with West when he says that the league is weaker than ever, but he's right about relying on 18 and 19 yr olds to change your fortunes.

Not only do a lot of these guys lack the fundamentals because they only went to college for one year, but they are also psychologically immature. Arguably the biggest reason you go to college is to be on your own and develop life skills. There's really no substitute for that. AAU ball does nothing to help these guys become men that can handle their responsibilities on and off the court. Even 2 solid years of college makes a big difference in maturity.


Couldn't agree more. People are expecting a guy like Embiid to come here and change the team overnight. It's a 3-4 year process if the guy even pans out.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject:

ahaider wrote:
The dilution of the league is a product of the number of teams not of quality of players.

Drop 4 teams and you'll have a much more competitive NBA. I agree and disagree with him. There may be no Lebron - but looking at last years draft this is 20x that


At the beginning of the 91-92 season, there were 23 international players in the NBA. This year, there were 92. This doesn't account for the domestic growth of the game in that time either.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:31 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
This is the same Jerry West that drafted Kobe Bryant out of High School, right?

I was about to say that but I thought the thread would be locked - like 2 hrs ago.

First thing that popped into my mind - Jerry's greatest pick - greatest move as a GM was drafting someone who didn't want to go to College.

Come on Jerry. Lets not be that hypocritical.

As to why the league is watered down. Expansion. New rules. You don't let post players do their thing as easily, you have like 5-6 extra teams taking up spots and then you have a CBA that will kill you if you go over the lux tax. Yeah, of course the wealth will be spread out in terms of talent. Not everyone will load up. OKC could have had the greatest/most talented team in the NBA for another 6 years but had to choose and traded away a top 10-15 player in Harden. Teams are doing that more and more now, they know they can't afford loaded teams, so they try to build a team around 1-2 stars and a lot of role players. Others who don't have the stars, just plain tank. It's the affects of the CBA, Expansion and new rules, not so much lack of talent.

As for the draft, I don't know if Jerry is playing us or not, but it probably isn't a 2003 caliber draft. There may not even be a true #1 pick in this draft. But there's about 5-6 really good picks at the top, any and all of them could become all-stars down the road. Yes 2-3 years maybe down the road, but that's fine. Not like Kobe was a superstar before 3 years into the league, either.


The bolded part above is very relevant to the topic as far as talent dilution, good point wolf.... the ever increasing penalties for going over the CAP is clearly a huge factor why teams will have a talent drop off beyond 2 or 3 players in the event those players are demanding high salaries which is certainly going to be the case in regards to super-stars for sure and all-star players to a large extent as well....
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:52 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Lakers 71-72 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
This is the same Jerry West that drafted Kobe Bryant out of High School, right?


That's right. The teenager who had played pick up games with actual NBA players and fared well. The guy who grew up with an NBA dad and has exposure to the league from his childhood.

I don't think Wiggins has that depth of exposure even now.


Andrew Wiggins didn't grow up with an NBA dad and didn't have exposure to the league from his childhood?

Kobe Bryant was ready to contribute right away?


I'm using Wiggins as an example among the projected top ten. Is Wiggins' dad Alan? If so, thanks for the information. I don't think any of the other top projected picks have have the NBA exposure Kobe did. Point to Jerry West.

Yes, Kobe was ready to contribute right away. I saw it. Do you remember? He was hitting 3's--and your come back with the Utah playoffs does not negate his regular season contributions--and scoring in the paint at a high percentage. Del Harris kept Kobe off the court at the instruction of Jerry West. Again, another savvy move, for the sake of his development. The Lakers had the luxury to keep his development steady with Eddie Jones starting.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Lakers 71-72 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Lakers 71-72 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
This is the same Jerry West that drafted Kobe Bryant out of High School, right?


That's right. The teenager who had played pick up games with actual NBA players and fared well. The guy who grew up with an NBA dad and has exposure to the league from his childhood.

I don't think Wiggins has that depth of exposure even now.


Andrew Wiggins didn't grow up with an NBA dad and didn't have exposure to the league from his childhood?

Kobe Bryant was ready to contribute right away?


I'm using Wiggins as an example among the projected top ten. Is Wiggins' dad Alan? If so, thanks for the information. I don't think any of the other top projected picks have have the NBA exposure Kobe did. Point to Jerry West.

Yes, Kobe was ready to contribute right away. I saw it. Do you remember? He was hitting 3's--and your come back with the Utah playoffs does not negate his regular season contributions--and scoring in the paint at a high percentage. Del Harris kept Kobe off the court at the instruction of Jerry West. Again, another savvy move, for the sake of his development. The Lakers had the luxury to keep his development steady with Eddie Jones starting.


Alan is the father of Candace and Alan Jr. He only played baseball. Mitchell Wiggins is Andrews dad. He played briefly in the NBA and a lot overseas. ANdrews childhood was probably similar to Kobe's.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:
Lakers 71-72 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Lakers 71-72 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
This is the same Jerry West that drafted Kobe Bryant out of High School, right?


That's right. The teenager who had played pick up games with actual NBA players and fared well. The guy who grew up with an NBA dad and has exposure to the league from his childhood.

I don't think Wiggins has that depth of exposure even now.


Andrew Wiggins didn't grow up with an NBA dad and didn't have exposure to the league from his childhood?

Kobe Bryant was ready to contribute right away?


Thank you

I'm using Wiggins as an example among the projected top ten. Is Wiggins' dad Alan? If so, thanks for the information. I don't think any of the other top projected picks have have the NBA exposure Kobe did. Point to Jerry West.

Yes, Kobe was ready to contribute right away. I saw it. Do you remember? He was hitting 3's--and your come back with the Utah playoffs does not negate his regular season contributions--and scoring in the paint at a high percentage. Del Harris kept Kobe off the court at the instruction of Jerry West. Again, another savvy move, for the sake of his development. The Lakers had the luxury to keep his development steady with Eddie Jones starting.


Alan is the father of Candace and Alan Jr. He only played baseball. Mitchell Wiggins is Andrews dad. He played briefly in the NBA and a lot overseas. ANdrews childhood was probably similar to Kobe's.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:56 pm    Post subject:

kobedagoat wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
This is the same Jerry West that drafted Kobe Bryant out of High School, right?


Yes. The same Kobe who had Jerry West saying he was the greatest prospect he's ever seen.

I find it ironic why people questioned Jerry West's sharp eyes and best pick of his career with Kobe.

Is he not in the business of evaluating current pool of talents?

Do you not think he has had the best compilations of those supposedly first rounds or sleepers?

Not long ago, I said I would trade #1 for Love. (before I even read what West said about the drafts).

I just don't think there are sure cases of KG Hakeem Lebron or Kobe in this class. They
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