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numero-ocho
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 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | The latest announcement is no surprise. I don't think it's going to ease the minds of all family members. Until some parts of the aircraft or the FDR is found I believe some will, as AH said, "keep hoping against hope." |
Interesting article from the BBC on the method and current efforts to recover it.
BBC
Not sure why Malaysia would be hesitant to release the satellite findings that led them to conclude the flight crashed at sea unless there's something really embarrassing about the way they handled the search.
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shnxx
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder what happens in cases where there are wealthy passengers making several millions per year?
Would the airline pay for the multiples of their income?
The Doppler effect being used to calculate direction was pretty interesting but I don't think it was the right choice to discuss such technical terms with the public.
It would've been easier for many to just read "signals sent from the plane clearly indicated that it was headed South" |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| shnxx wrote: | I wonder what happens in cases where there are wealthy passengers making several millions per year?
Would the airline pay for the multiples of their income?
The Doppler effect being used to calculate direction was pretty interesting but I don't think it was the right choice to discuss such technical terms with the public.
It would've been easier for many to just read "signals sent from the plane clearly indicated that it was headed South" |
There's no risk of describing the technique used. It's hardly information that be utilized for nefarious purposes. Especially in this case, where people have been demanding clear answers. |
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shnxx
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | I wonder what happens in cases where there are wealthy passengers making several millions per year?
Would the airline pay for the multiples of their income?
The Doppler effect being used to calculate direction was pretty interesting but I don't think it was the right choice to discuss such technical terms with the public.
It would've been easier for many to just read "signals sent from the plane clearly indicated that it was headed South" |
There's no risk of describing the technique used. It's hardly information that be utilized for nefarious purposes. Especially in this case, where people have been demanding clear answers. |
The reason I said it might have been better to give a simpler version was because it led to lots of people saying that this wasn't real evidence... it seemed as if they didn't get it. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | The latest announcement is no surprise. I don't think it's going to ease the minds of all family members. Until some parts of the aircraft or the FDR is found I believe some will, as AH said, "keep hoping against hope." |
Interesting article from the BBC on the method and current efforts to recover it.
BBC
Not sure why Malaysia would be hesitant to release the satellite findings that led them to conclude the flight crashed at sea unless there's something really embarrassing about the way they handled the search. |
The possibility of disclosing their capabilities could be a reason.
I read where the Malaysian government not only sent text messages they also had their staff at hotel sites give the sorrowing information to the family's at the hotels where they housed them.
The family's invaded a press session demanding information. I believe the government was trying to give them what they wanted before they heard it on the news or read it in the press.
I don't think it was information they should have released the way they did, so matter of factually and definitive, there was nothing definite. I think saying they were still searching but things looked dim would have been better.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| shnxx wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | I wonder what happens in cases where there are wealthy passengers making several millions per year?
Would the airline pay for the multiples of their income?
The Doppler effect being used to calculate direction was pretty interesting but I don't think it was the right choice to discuss such technical terms with the public.
It would've been easier for many to just read "signals sent from the plane clearly indicated that it was headed South" |
There's no risk of describing the technique used. It's hardly information that be utilized for nefarious purposes. Especially in this case, where people have been demanding clear answers. |
The reason I said it might have been better to give a simpler version was because it led to lots of people saying that this wasn't real evidence... it seemed as if they didn't get it. |
There are always going to be people who don't get it - either through willful ignorance or lack of basic intelligence. You can't go tailoring the release of information in a case lime this based on that. The reporting of the facts need to be thorough and accurate. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | The latest announcement is no surprise. I don't think it's going to ease the minds of all family members. Until some parts of the aircraft or the FDR is found I believe some will, as AH said, "keep hoping against hope." |
Interesting article from the BBC on the method and current efforts to recover it.
BBC
Not sure why Malaysia would be hesitant to release the satellite findings that led them to conclude the flight crashed at sea unless there's something really embarrassing about the way they handled the search. |
The possibility of disclosing their capabilities could be a reason.
I read where the Malaysian government not only sent text messages they also had their staff at hotel sites give the sorrowing information to the family's at the hotels where they housed them.
The family's invaded a press session demanding information. I believe the government was trying to give them what they wanted before they heard it on the news or read it in the press.
I don't think it was information they should have released the way they did, so matter of factually and definitive, there was nothing definite. I think saying they were still searching but things looked dim would have been better. |
These people have been strung on long enough. There's nothing to be gained for them or anyone else by stringing them along any further with false hope. It's a definitive situation and it's time that the families of the victims be given the opportunity to move towards closure - at least to the extent some can. The passengers of this plane are not going to be found alive, and they may not be found at all. Pretending otherwise is far more cruel to the survivors than acknowledging the obvious truth. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | The latest announcement is no surprise. I don't think it's going to ease the minds of all family members. Until some parts of the aircraft or the FDR is found I believe some will, as AH said, "keep hoping against hope." |
Interesting article from the BBC on the method and current efforts to recover it.
BBC
Not sure why Malaysia would be hesitant to release the satellite findings that led them to conclude the flight crashed at sea unless there's something really embarrassing about the way they handled the search. |
The possibility of disclosing their capabilities could be a reason.
I read where the Malaysian government not only sent text messages they also had their staff at hotel sites give the sorrowing information to the family's at the hotels where they housed them.
The family's invaded a press session demanding information. I believe the government was trying to give them what they wanted before they heard it on the news or read it in the press.
I don't think it was information they should have released the way they did, so matter of factually and definitive, there was nothing definite. I think saying they were still searching but things looked dim would have been better. |
These people have been strung on long enough. There's nothing to be gained for them or anyone else by stringing them along any further with false hope. It's a definitive situation and it's time that the families of the victims be given the opportunity to move towards closure - at least to the extent some can. The passengers of this plane are not going to be found alive, and they may not be found at all. Pretending otherwise is far more cruel to the survivors than acknowledging the obvious truth. |
I agree they should be told the truth, the way the government went about doing it is what I disagree with.
The truth is there's not much hope but the search will go on until all avenues have been exhausted. IMO that's what family members should have been told.
I don't think any are alive but if I had family members on the plane I wouldn't want to be told with such surety they were dead without some kind of proof. Weak or strong, some kind of proof.
Allow those with family on the missing plane to grieve. Sooner or later, with or without proof, reality will set in.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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999
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | that plane is on the bottom of the ocean floor... if it were on land someone would have said something by now |
Wow. I guess I was right  |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | that plane is on the bottom of the ocean floor... if it were on land someone would have said something by now |
Wow. I guess I was right |
Not really much of a surprise. The plane didn't have enough fuel to reach a land mass in the direction where they were going and even if it did, they were going to Antarctica, which is unsurvivable if they were somehow able to crash land there. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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CNN Wolf Blitzer has Malaysian reporter saying her source told her the pilot deliberately changed the planes course. They're now trying to find a reason he did so.
No debris found yet, except by satellite view.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | CNN Wolf Blitzer has Malaysian reporter saying her source told her the pilot deliberately changed the planes course. They're now trying to find a reason he did so.
No debris found yet, except by satellite view. |
That's been said for a while now. The most common belief by other pilots is a cockpit emergency that required immediate attention - hence no communication. The vector of the direction change put the plane on course with the closest airport that was capable of handling the plane - as would be standard protocol. The thought is that by the time the pilots might have been ready to communicate with ATC, the system failures had already affected the communications system. It's believed that some time after that, the aircrew had succumbed to either toxic fumes or a loss of cabin pressure. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | CNN Wolf Blitzer has Malaysian reporter saying her source told her the pilot deliberately changed the planes course. They're now trying to find a reason he did so.
No debris found yet, except by satellite view. |
That's been said for a while now. The most common belief by other pilots is a cockpit emergency that required immediate attention - hence no communication. The vector of the direction change put the plane on course with the closest airport that was capable of handling the plane - as would be standard protocol. The thought is that by the time the pilots might have been ready to communicate with ATC, the system failures had already affected the communications system. It's believed that some time after that, the aircrew had succumbed to either toxic fumes or a loss of cabin pressure. |
I know. Wolf asked her if her source had any proof. She said the source told her he couldn't say at this time. She said the source was reliable.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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lakersken80
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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One expert on CNN said when asked, he couldn't be sure but he didn't think the floating piece was a part of the airliner.
Another said if it was a part of the plane there would be serial numbers that would tell them where the panel was made and what plane it went on.
That led me to believe panels are not all made in the same place.
He also said if the smaller piece was a cushion that said Malaysian Airlines that too would be definitive.
It's all computerized and cataloged.
I have a feeling the pieces are more ocean pollution.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Well they don't have much time left to find the black box...The pinger will run out of battery power in a week or so, and if they don't find it by then they are going to have a tough time locating the wreckage and the reason why it crashed. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Well they don't have much time left to find the black box...The pinger will run out of battery power in a week or so, and if they don't find it by then they are going to have a tough time locating the wreckage and the reason why it crashed. |
The Black Box is essentially out of the picture as a locating device. The odds of getting close enough to it before the battery dies are nil. But it's data isn't going anywhere. If they can find it eventually, it is still highly likely to provide information that starts to answer all the questions.
Once they can physically gather some wreckage, they can get a starting point to use to try and track back to a crash zone. If there are data buoys in the region, those can provide data about the speed and direction of currents and swells. Using that they can hopefully narrow down a reasonable area to start using side scanning sonar to try and locate a debris field on the bottom of the sea. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Well they don't have much time left to find the black box...The pinger will run out of battery power in a week or so, and if they don't find it by then they are going to have a tough time locating the wreckage and the reason why it crashed. |
The Black Box is essentially out of the picture as a locating device. The odds of getting close enough to it before the battery dies are nil. But it's data isn't going anywhere. If they can find it eventually, it is still highly likely to provide information that starts to answer all the questions.
Once they can physically gather some wreckage, they can get a starting point to use to try and track back to a crash zone. If there are data buoys in the region, those can provide data about the speed and direction of currents and swells. Using that they can hopefully narrow down a reasonable area to start using side scanning sonar to try and locate a debris field on the bottom of the sea. |
The problem is if there is wreckage it probably sunk 3-4 miles deep in the Indian Ocean or is pretty far dispersed from the original crash area. All they have is the satellite tracking data. If the black box runs out of batteries they are going to have a hard time finding anything, considering they can't even locate one piece of the plane. At least Air France they knew the fate of the plane when bodies and wreckage were found one week from the crash. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:22 am Post subject: |
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LINK
I hope the latest equipment deployment has positive results. It's a long shot but at this stage any shot is better than none.
I get the feeling the satellite image views are not the best available. I also think the reason the Malaysians and other countries are not telling all is, they don't want to disclose their true satellite capabilities.
The Chinese citizens with family missing are probably thinking the same thing, which is why they're saying the Malaysian's are not telling the whole truth, giving them confusing, conflicting information.
I understand countries don't reveal all known information. It's is in the best interest of the country.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | LINK
I hope the latest equipment deployment has positive results. It's a long shot but at this stage any shot is better than none.
I get the feeling the satellite image views are not the best available. I also think the reason the Malaysians and other countries are not telling all is, they don't want to disclose their true satellite capabilities.
The Chinese citizens with family missing are probably thinking the same thing, which is why they're saying the Malaysian's are not telling the whole truth, giving them confusing, conflicting information.
I understand countries don't reveal all known information. It's is in the best interest of the country. |
I think in the case of Malaysia, it's more about limitations in logistics and resources than an intentional act of secrecy. Malaysia isn't exactly the US, Russia or China in regards to that type of technology. I doubt they have some advanced capability that the the US etc. is unaware of. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Back on the front page of CNN...You didn't think an 8.0+ earthquake or shooting spree would take CNN's focus off their ratings cow for the past month did you?
http://www.cnn.com/ |
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DaMuleRules
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:16 am Post subject: |
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I heard that early this morning. It's more promising than any news so far.
I wonder why the voice recording weren't played for the families of the pilots | Quote: | Who's talking?
The cockpit conversation recording of the flight has been played to friends of the pilot and first officer, as well as to other pilots, in order to identify who was speaking, a source close to the investigation said Saturday.
But the voices have not been identified, the source said.
The recording was not played to the families of the pilot and first officer, the source said |
Also disturbing, the pinging was only heard for a minute and a half. Pings are usually constant.
Lastly, the Chinese ships are not searching with the rest of the search force, they're working independently, searching outside the designated area, reporting their findings directly to Beijing who in turn give what they want too the rest of the search force. Who knows if they're revealing all they have?
I think they want to be the country that finds MH 370 and are holding some information that may be benificial if known by the rest of the force.
The pinging heard is new and promising, I hope it's not another false alarm.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: |
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LINK
The search for the black box from MH370 seemingly is looking more like a finding of it. | Quote: | PERTH, Australia (AP) — Three separate but fleeting sounds from deep in the Indian Ocean offered new hope Sunday in the hunt for the missing Malaysia Airlines jet, as officials rushed to determine whether they were signals from the plane's black boxes before their beacons fall silent.
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Officials are being very careful not to jump to conclusion. This could be the result of the Missing Malaysia Plane MH370's Crash Confirmed; All 239 Passengers, Crew Members Onboard Declared Dead announcement.
| Quote: | "This is an important and encouraging lead, but one which I urge you to treat carefully," retired Australian Air Chief Marshall Angus Houston, who is coordinating the search, told reporters in Perth.
He stressed that the signals had not been verified as being linked to Flight 370, which was traveling from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to Beijing when it disappeared March 8 with 239 people on board.
"We have an acoustic event. The job now is to determine the significance of that event. It does not confirm or deny the presence of the aircraft locator on the bottom of the ocean," Houston said, referring to each of the three transmissions. |
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: |
Also disturbing, the pinging was only heard for a minute and a half. Pings are usually constant. |
Not necessarily a bad sign at all. The fact that they got a signal for a minute and a half indicate that it is constant. The reasons for the loss of signal are almost certainly due to the logistics and conditions of the search itself. As the submersible is trolled along, there are dozens of factors involved in maintaining a signal once it's found. Not only does proximity change, but the strength of the signal is going to be affected by changes in terrain, water temperature, current direction and the direction of the signal itself. |
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