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Runway8
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 Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: KAJ's record |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | nevitt_smrek wrote: | We are approximately two weeks away from the 30th anniversary of what's commonly heralded as the greatest individual career record in league history.
The record will probably fall one day, but Kareem will have held it for close to 40 years. And there's a good chance it will get broken at the foul line, a tremendous yawn when compared to the majestic skyhook. |
People don't realize how amazing Michael Jordan was. Actually people do, but people often think of KAJ's scoring record as this untouchable thing. If you actually look closely at MJ's career, you would see that he could have broken KAJ's record if that was his goal. They are 6 thousand points apart. Take into account MJ's broken leg in 86, and the two seasons he retired to go chase fly balls and that's the record right there. And what if the league didn't go into a lock-out in 99? The Bulls would have all been back to defend their title. This guy walked away from the game TWICE while he was the best player on the planet. MJ would have shattered 40k easily if that was his goal and he still would have done it under 20 seasons.
Kareem and Malone had to have longevity and stuck around for a long time to be 1 and 2. Michael Jordan nonchalantly arrived at #3. |
Those breaks arguably helped extend Jordan's career though (the latter two, not the one in 86). Taking 2 seasons off saves mileage. He arguably doesn't play as well at 40 if he didn't get the break in 99. |
So are you saying if he didn't take those breaks, his game would have suffered and he wouldn't have broken the record?
Nah. I saw ample proof that his scoring pace would not have changed. He was in equal, if not, superior condition than even Kobe Bryant, and look how long Kobe has managed to play and at a high level too. Karl Malone was also solid as a rock. These guys are just special. I don't see how if he didn't take those breaks, his game would have diminished. |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | KD is about 24,000 points away. He'd have to average 30 points for roughly 10 years before surpassing it. |
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He can also avg 25 a night for roughly 12 years, which would have him breaking it by 37. He's a jumpshooting basketball addict and medical technology will only get better. Barring some major injury he will probably break it. |
No doubt. There's also a chance that Westbrook or he leaves. Say if WEstbrook leaves and they get other players that are more complementary to Durant, we could conceivably see him average 32+ for several years in a row.
The dude shoots around 45% on PULL UP 3'S. That's like Steve Nash. Except the guy is 7 foot! |
Durant will be the primary option no matter where he goes, but he just doesn't seem to be the guy who gets 32-35 ppg as he seems to like to push his assists up more than his points when he gets around 30.
Last edited by Telleris on Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | Cap had 25 point average over 20 years.
KD is about 24,000 points away. He'd have to average 30 points for roughly 10 years before surpassing it.
Doable but not a sure thing. Longevity and health are the two main factors.
Lebron is about 16,000 points away. At 25 points a game, he can make it in a little over 8 years. At 30 points a game, he'll make it in 6.5 years.
He's also in the running imo. Just depends on whether or not he's still trucking along after he's 35.
Kobe averaged 25.5 over 17 years (didn't count these 6 games). The first few years under Shaq and mainly the ACL did him in. |
The work stoppages didn't help either.
Based on years of service, Lebron is behind Cap's pace. Thru 11 years, Kareem had 24175 pts. He would have had more had he decided to not punch out Kent Benson, but the lockout a few years ago makes it a wash, I suppose.
Lebron will more/less finish the year at the 23,000 level. It doesn't appear he will have a significant dip in production for the next few seasons, at least. Karl Malone didn't really hit one until the '99 stoppage.
Still a ways to go, as others have mentioned. Projections don't always come to fruition. We've seen it with Pujols and Rodriguez in baseball. Doesn't mean we can't have fun discussing.
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Nightwalker
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Lebron most likely isn't going to break KAJ scoring record, I highly doubt his game well age well in his 30's. Durant has the best chance but then again it's hard to play at high level for long period of time. |
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trevorturtle
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: KAJ's record |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | nevitt_smrek wrote: | We are approximately two weeks away from the 30th anniversary of what's commonly heralded as the greatest individual career record in league history.
The record will probably fall one day, but Kareem will have held it for close to 40 years. And there's a good chance it will get broken at the foul line, a tremendous yawn when compared to the majestic skyhook. |
People don't realize how amazing Michael Jordan was. Actually people do, but people often think of KAJ's scoring record as this untouchable thing. If you actually look closely at MJ's career, you would see that he could have broken KAJ's record if that was his goal. They are 6 thousand points apart. Take into account MJ's broken leg in 86, and the two seasons he retired to go chase fly balls and that's the record right there. And what if the league didn't go into a lock-out in 99? The Bulls would have all been back to defend their title. This guy walked away from the game TWICE while he was the best player on the planet. MJ would have shattered 40k easily if that was his goal and he still would have done it under 20 seasons.
Kareem and Malone had to have longevity and stuck around for a long time to be 1 and 2. Michael Jordan nonchalantly arrived at #3. |
Those breaks arguably helped extend Jordan's career though (the latter two, not the one in 86). Taking 2 seasons off saves mileage. He arguably doesn't play as well at 40 if he didn't get the break in 99. |
So are you saying if he didn't take those breaks, his game would have suffered and he wouldn't have broken the record?
Nah. I saw ample proof that his scoring pace would not have changed. He was in equal, if not, superior condition than even Kobe Bryant, and look how long Kobe has managed to play and at a high level too. Karl Malone was also solid as a rock. These guys are just special. I don't see how if he didn't take those breaks, his game would have diminished. |
Except he took those years off and you'll never know.
You act like not caring is somehow a virtue.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:00 am Post subject: Re: KAJ's record |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | nevitt_smrek wrote: | We are approximately two weeks away from the 30th anniversary of what's commonly heralded as the greatest individual career record in league history.
The record will probably fall one day, but Kareem will have held it for close to 40 years. And there's a good chance it will get broken at the foul line, a tremendous yawn when compared to the majestic skyhook. |
People don't realize how amazing Michael Jordan was. Actually people do, but people often think of KAJ's scoring record as this untouchable thing. If you actually look closely at MJ's career, you would see that he could have broken KAJ's record if that was his goal. They are 6 thousand points apart. Take into account MJ's broken leg in 86, and the two seasons he retired to go chase fly balls and that's the record right there. And what if the league didn't go into a lock-out in 99? The Bulls would have all been back to defend their title. This guy walked away from the game TWICE while he was the best player on the planet. MJ would have shattered 40k easily if that was his goal and he still would have done it under 20 seasons.
Kareem and Malone had to have longevity and stuck around for a long time to be 1 and 2. Michael Jordan nonchalantly arrived at #3. |
Those breaks arguably helped extend Jordan's career though (the latter two, not the one in 86). Taking 2 seasons off saves mileage. He arguably doesn't play as well at 40 if he didn't get the break in 99. |
So are you saying if he didn't take those breaks, his game would have suffered and he wouldn't have broken the record?
Nah. I saw ample proof that his scoring pace would not have changed. He was in equal, if not, superior condition than even Kobe Bryant, and look how long Kobe has managed to play and at a high level too. Karl Malone was also solid as a rock. These guys are just special. I don't see how if he didn't take those breaks, his game would have diminished. |
the thing about it woulda coulda shoulda scenario is that you can imagine any outcome you like. but no matter how confident you are in your guess of what would have happened in different circumstances, it still only a guess. ultimately the only thing that matters is what actually happened |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:57 am Post subject: Re: KAJ's record |
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| Runway8 wrote: |
So are you saying if he didn't take those breaks, his game would have suffered and he wouldn't have broken the record?
Nah. I saw ample proof that his scoring pace would not have changed. He was in equal, if not, superior condition than even Kobe Bryant, and look how long Kobe has managed to play and at a high level too. Karl Malone was also solid as a rock. These guys are just special. I don't see how if he didn't take those breaks, his game would have diminished. |
I'm saying if he didn't take those breaks then his body may not have lasted long enough to break it. That's a lot of extra mileage. Jordan was in great condition but there was no Germany knee procedures to prolong his career when he played. Medical technology has come a long way since the 90's, which is why I think barring some major injury a shooter like Durant will break it, because there is no telling how long he will be able to go and keep just shooting over people. |
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playground
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| KAJ entered the league at 22 years of age. KD was 19 and LBJ was 18. So those are 3 and 4 yeard of advantage respectively. Had KAJ entered the league , say at 20 years old (he was an absolute beast by then), his numbers would have been even more impressive. Do not forget KAJ averaged 23.4 ppg the season he turned 39. It is true that if injuries respect LBJ and KD, they could break it. |
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Nightwalker
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Does anyone here think current Durant is as good as peak/prime Kobe when comes to (scoring) only. While I think Durant more efficient and has better range from outside, I believe Kobe was way more explosive and greater overall. Mid-range, post, driving to the rim, athleticism give me #8 Kobe every time over Durant. Am I, wrong? |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Nightwalker wrote: | | Does anyone here think current Durant is as good as peak/prime Kobe when comes to (scoring) only. While I think Durant more efficient and has better range from outside, I believe Kobe was way more explosive and greater overall. Mid-range, post, driving to the rim, athleticism give me #8 Kobe every time over Durant. Am I, wrong? |
No.
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Nightwalker
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | Nightwalker wrote: | | Does anyone here think current Durant is as good as peak/prime Kobe when comes to (scoring) only. While I think Durant more efficient and has better range from outside, I believe Kobe was way more explosive and greater overall. Mid-range, post, driving to the rim, athleticism give me #8 Kobe every time over Durant. Am I, wrong? |
No. |
I don't know why some of b-ball friends do and some on other NBA forums. Kobe at his very best is the greatest scorer I've ever seen, but maybe I'm wrong. |
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jdm43390
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Nightwalker wrote: | | Does anyone here think current Durant is as good as peak/prime Kobe when comes to (scoring) only. While I think Durant more efficient and has better range from outside, I believe Kobe was way more explosive and greater overall. Mid-range, post, driving to the rim, athleticism give me #8 Kobe every time over Durant. Am I, wrong? |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Nightwalker wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | Nightwalker wrote: | | Does anyone here think current Durant is as good as peak/prime Kobe when comes to (scoring) only. While I think Durant more efficient and has better range from outside, I believe Kobe was way more explosive and greater overall. Mid-range, post, driving to the rim, athleticism give me #8 Kobe every time over Durant. Am I, wrong? |
No. |
I don't know why some of b-ball friends do and some on other NBA forums. Kobe at his very best is the greatest scorer I've ever seen, but maybe I'm wrong. |
| Quote: | | “When you look at me, Carmelo (Anthony), LeBron and Paul George, what we’ve done out there in this league is nothing compared to what Kobe did,” Durant said. “We live in a world of what have you done for me lately. We don’t remember the day before sometimes. Think back five, six, years ago what he was doing. It’s unheard of.” |
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2014/03/kevin-durant-says-kobe-bryant-michael-jordan-equal/
Pretty much what we were saying.
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Shameless bump of old thread. What looks easy on paper, isn't necessarily so in reality. Sure, I expect a guy to break the record in my lifetime. But I wouldn't expect multiple people to do it, despite the pace they are on. Injuries can add up and lower performance enough to make the record out of reach.
Kareem not only had the most effective shot, but he also had the luxury of playing with Magic for the second half of his career. So got his share of easy layups and dunks.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't expect anyone to break it in my lifetime, but I may be older than you. KAJ played the first third of his career in the pre-merger era, when the scoring numbers were higher. As you say, he played the last third of his career under ideal conditions for an aging scorer. That record may last for a long time. |
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Lakers#1Team
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't mind Cap keeping the record if only because he had the most consistently unstoppable shot in NBA history. But only time will tell. |
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LoLakers13
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| No one will break this record: 49,737 career points |
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Jeggs
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| CandyCanes wrote: | | LeBron and/or Durant will break it barring injury. |
It's gonna be interesting to see how Durant and LBJ play when they are 35. I don't think they have the skillset to pass KAJ. Lebron's game especially relies on his explosiveness and quickness...something you start losing in your 30s. |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Durant has the game to go late (you don't stop being tall and long), LBJ doesn't, but Durant's biggest advantage, genetic freak will probably mean this foot injury he has isn't an isolated incident.
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nevitt_smrek
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nevitt_smrek
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | I never understand why people get worked up about someone potentially breaking a record in 8-12 years.
The all-time points record is like climbing a mountain that gets steeper with every step you take. As Malone showed, even if you are only seemingly a year or two away, and going at full speed, you can be stopped in your tracks in a moment. |
We're totally getting worked up dude. |
Comprehesion has never been his strong suit.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | Durant has the game to go late (you don't stop being tall and long), LBJ doesn't, but Durant's biggest advantage, genetic freak will probably mean this foot injury he has isn't an isolated incident. |
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lakers0505
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Maybe if there is some sort of transformation in the game as the NFL has endured offensively.
If the game pace dramatically increased maybe?
But then, you also considered the toll that 18-20 years takes on your joints and cartilage, ignoring the probability of injury, I think it's unlikely. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I posted this in the game thread, thought I'd repost it here.
Fans talking about Kobe catching Jordan on the all time list. Does it matter to anyone that Jordan did it in 13 years. Kobe's playing in his 18th year. Took Cap 20 years to get his. Malone 19.
If Kobe catches Mike, does he really catch Mike?
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