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emplay
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pio2u
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 Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Good info.
This off-season is truly the Wild Wild West for Mitch! |
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | Good info.
This off-season is truly the Wild Wild West for Mitch! |
Easily the most critical off-season, in Lakers history..... the Lakers have a lot of options... they can't mess it up... or we will be stuck in this situation for a long time. |
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Shaber
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Interesting, how many new taxpayer teams there will be (in addition to Clippers). I just hope they understand how it feels and the cap will increase considerably in near future.
But I tend to be too optimistic sometimes.
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Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
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governator
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Emplay, do you think it's likely that the Lakers will retain most of the FA (Pau, Nash, Farmar, Hill, Bazemore and Meeks) on a relative bargain 1 year contract and decide to go for it with Kobe and the rookie to round the team. Thus going big for 2015? |
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emplay
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Too early to say - lakers don't know yet starts with what pick number they get
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| s_habe wrote: | Interesting, how many new taxpayer teams there will be (in addition to Clippers). I just hope they understand how it feels and the cap will increase considerably in near future.
But I tend to be too optimistic sometimes. |
How would their feelings affect the cap? The cap is a percentage of revenue.
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Shaber
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | s_habe wrote: | Interesting, how many new taxpayer teams there will be (in addition to Clippers). I just hope they understand how it feels and the cap will increase considerably in near future.
But I tend to be too optimistic sometimes. |
How would their feelings affect the cap? The cap is a percentage of revenue. |
OK, I may be wrong on the math here.
But the math has been agreed around the table. By the people. With feelings. Usually.
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Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| s_habe wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | s_habe wrote: | Interesting, how many new taxpayer teams there will be (in addition to Clippers). I just hope they understand how it feels and the cap will increase considerably in near future.
But I tend to be too optimistic sometimes. |
How would their feelings affect the cap? The cap is a percentage of revenue. |
OK, I may be wrong on the math here.
But the math has been agreed around the table. By the people. With feelings. Usually. |
I was just curious if you thought the teams had any control over the cap year to year.
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bongojoe
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Joined: 31 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:05 am Post subject: |
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A better idea of what cap space is available is seen when you account for cap holds.
When looking at a minimum roster and to see what the max space might be, you need to fill in empty roster spots with veteran minimum salaries, account for the MLE and insert an expected rookie salary based on expect draft position.
If there is only Kobe and Sacre (Nash is stretched and all other FA are renounced) then team salary stands at:
Kobe: $23.5M
Sacre: 0.9M
Nash: 3.2M (stretched over 3 years)
#5 Draft pick: $3.0M
MLE: $5.3M
Vet Min x 9: $7.9M ($884k per)
That comes out to $43.8M in team salary. Projected Salary Cap is $62.1M (per Larry Coon), giving the team the freedom of having $18.3 before hitting the salary cap. If you keep Nash, so as to get him off the books as quickly as possible, that number is reduced by $6.5M, to only $11.8M in cap space.
So there isn't really that much salary cap space for next year. And once players start signing for next year, several will only sign for at least 2 years, so the cap space will be further reduced after next year. Something to think about. |
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LakersMDGurl
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:21 am Post subject: |
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I don't know if our young guys will come back for chicken change. Take Meeks for instance, dude has played flat our this year. Other teams will be coming at him with the money.. Same for Young, Farmar, X. We have to depend on Loyalty from these guys, which is not much in this business.
The off season can't come sooner. But first, there is a championship to be LOST by the Miami Heat!!!!! 
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bongojoe
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMDGurl wrote: | I don't know if our young guys will come back for chicken change. Take Meeks for instance, dude has played flat our this year. Other teams will be coming at him with the money.. Same for Young, Farmar, X. We have to depend on Loyalty from these guys, which is not much in this business.
The off season can't come sooner. But first, there is a championship to be LOST by the Miami Heat!!!!! |
Loyalty has to run BOTH ways... what have these young guys seen? Do they see loyalty from the FO? If they do not see it coming from the top down, it is hard to expect it from the bottom up. |
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Kobe's Era
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| bongojoe wrote: | A better idea of what cap space is available is seen when you account for cap holds.
When looking at a minimum roster and to see what the max space might be, you need to fill in empty roster spots with veteran minimum salaries, account for the MLE and insert an expected rookie salary based on expect draft position.
If there is only Kobe and Sacre (Nash is stretched and all other FA are renounced) then team salary stands at:
Kobe: $23.5M
Sacre: 0.9M
Nash: 3.2M (stretched over 3 years)
#5 Draft pick: $3.0M
MLE: $5.3M
Vet Min x 9: $7.9M ($884k per)
That comes out to $43.8M in team salary. Projected Salary Cap is $62.1M (per Larry Coon), giving the team the freedom of having $18.3 before hitting the salary cap. If you keep Nash, so as to get him off the books as quickly as possible, that number is reduced by $6.5M, to only $11.8M in cap space.
So there isn't really that much salary cap space for next year. And once players start signing for next year, several will only sign for at least 2 years, so the cap space will be further reduced after next year. Something to think about. |
mle and vet min dont apply to the projected cap for 2014 |
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bongojoe
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe's Era wrote: | | bongojoe wrote: | A better idea of what cap space is available is seen when you account for cap holds.
When looking at a minimum roster and to see what the max space might be, you need to fill in empty roster spots with veteran minimum salaries, account for the MLE and insert an expected rookie salary based on expect draft position.
If there is only Kobe and Sacre (Nash is stretched and all other FA are renounced) then team salary stands at:
Kobe: $23.5M
Sacre: 0.9M
Nash: 3.2M (stretched over 3 years)
#5 Draft pick: $3.0M
MLE: $5.3M
Vet Min x 9: $7.9M ($884k per)
That comes out to $43.8M in team salary. Projected Salary Cap is $62.1M (per Larry Coon), giving the team the freedom of having $18.3 before hitting the salary cap. If you keep Nash, so as to get him off the books as quickly as possible, that number is reduced by $6.5M, to only $11.8M in cap space.
So there isn't really that much salary cap space for next year. And once players start signing for next year, several will only sign for at least 2 years, so the cap space will be further reduced after next year. Something to think about. |
mle and vet min dont apply to the projected cap for 2014 |
If you want to know how much you have to spend on free agents, it would not be correct to simply quote a figure that does not include the total minimal amount you are committed to spending in team salary. A team is required to have at least 13 players. If you are short of that, then you need to include Roster Holds that are calculated at the veteran minimum. Also, included in the team salary calculation is a hold for the MLE the team may end up using. It is included in the calculation of your team salary regardless of whether you actually use it or not. The only way around it being calculated into your salary cap would be by renouncing the MLE for that year.
The CBA of 2011 ushers in a whole new era in how players are signed and how team rosters are managed. If you are not familiar with the provisions, you are at a severe disadvantage in trying to determine who you are eligible to sign and for how much. You may still be thinking about how team salary is calculated prior to the 2011 CBA.
Things are much different now, and it is also why Kobe's new deal is such a big deal. If you do sign a near max contract player, there will be practically no one else of any worth on the team. This is why I think it is better to just re-sign Pau so then you don't have to gut the roster. You can then re-sign Swaggy P, Hill, etc. |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| bongojoe wrote: | | Kobe's Era wrote: | | bongojoe wrote: | A better idea of what cap space is available is seen when you account for cap holds.
When looking at a minimum roster and to see what the max space might be, you need to fill in empty roster spots with veteran minimum salaries, account for the MLE and insert an expected rookie salary based on expect draft position.
If there is only Kobe and Sacre (Nash is stretched and all other FA are renounced) then team salary stands at:
Kobe: $23.5M
Sacre: 0.9M
Nash: 3.2M (stretched over 3 years)
#5 Draft pick: $3.0M
MLE: $5.3M
Vet Min x 9: $7.9M ($884k per)
That comes out to $43.8M in team salary. Projected Salary Cap is $62.1M (per Larry Coon), giving the team the freedom of having $18.3 before hitting the salary cap. If you keep Nash, so as to get him off the books as quickly as possible, that number is reduced by $6.5M, to only $11.8M in cap space.
So there isn't really that much salary cap space for next year. And once players start signing for next year, several will only sign for at least 2 years, so the cap space will be further reduced after next year. Something to think about. |
mle and vet min dont apply to the projected cap for 2014 |
If you want to know how much you have to spend on free agents, it would not be correct to simply quote a figure that does not include the total minimal amount you are committed to spending in team salary. A team is required to have at least 13 players. If you are short of that, then you need to include Roster Holds that are calculated at the veteran minimum. Also, included in the team salary calculation is a hold for the MLE the team may end up using. It is included in the calculation of your team salary regardless of whether you actually use it or not. The only way around it being calculated into your salary cap would be by renouncing the MLE for that year.
The CBA of 2011 ushers in a whole new era in how players are signed and how team rosters are managed. If you are not familiar with the provisions, you are at a severe disadvantage in trying to determine who you are eligible to sign and for how much. You may still be thinking about how team salary is calculated prior to the 2011 CBA.
Things are much different now, and it is also why Kobe's new deal is such a big deal. If you do sign a near max contract player, there will be practically no one else of any worth on the team. This is why I think it is better to just re-sign Pau so then you don't have to gut the roster. You can then re-sign Swaggy P, Hill, etc. |
1. You don't have to count the MLE. The team can renounce it, use their cap space and then use a room MLE of 2.7 mil afterward.
2. The minimum cap holds are at the rookie nondrafted minimum of 507k for 2014 (rising to 525k in 2015).
3. You only have to account for 12 roster spots, not 13, when it comes to cap holds.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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bongojoe
Rookie
Joined: 31 Mar 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | bongojoe wrote: | | Kobe's Era wrote: | | bongojoe wrote: | A better idea of what cap space is available is seen when you account for cap holds.
When looking at a minimum roster and to see what the max space might be, you need to fill in empty roster spots with veteran minimum salaries, account for the MLE and insert an expected rookie salary based on expect draft position.
If there is only Kobe and Sacre (Nash is stretched and all other FA are renounced) then team salary stands at:
Kobe: $23.5M
Sacre: 0.9M
Nash: 3.2M (stretched over 3 years)
#5 Draft pick: $3.0M
MLE: $5.3M
Vet Min x 9: $7.9M ($884k per)
That comes out to $43.8M in team salary. Projected Salary Cap is $62.1M (per Larry Coon), giving the team the freedom of having $18.3 before hitting the salary cap. If you keep Nash, so as to get him off the books as quickly as possible, that number is reduced by $6.5M, to only $11.8M in cap space.
So there isn't really that much salary cap space for next year. And once players start signing for next year, several will only sign for at least 2 years, so the cap space will be further reduced after next year. Something to think about. |
mle and vet min dont apply to the projected cap for 2014 |
If you want to know how much you have to spend on free agents, it would not be correct to simply quote a figure that does not include the total minimal amount you are committed to spending in team salary. A team is required to have at least 13 players. If you are short of that, then you need to include Roster Holds that are calculated at the veteran minimum. Also, included in the team salary calculation is a hold for the MLE the team may end up using. It is included in the calculation of your team salary regardless of whether you actually use it or not. The only way around it being calculated into your salary cap would be by renouncing the MLE for that year.
The CBA of 2011 ushers in a whole new era in how players are signed and how team rosters are managed. If you are not familiar with the provisions, you are at a severe disadvantage in trying to determine who you are eligible to sign and for how much. You may still be thinking about how team salary is calculated prior to the 2011 CBA.
Things are much different now, and it is also why Kobe's new deal is such a big deal. If you do sign a near max contract player, there will be practically no one else of any worth on the team. This is why I think it is better to just re-sign Pau so then you don't have to gut the roster. You can then re-sign Swaggy P, Hill, etc. |
1. You don't have to count the MLE. The team can renounce it, use their cap space and then use a room MLE of 2.7 mil afterward.
2. The minimum cap holds are at the rookie nondrafted minimum of 507k for 2014 (rising to 525k in 2015).
3. You only have to account for 12 roster spots, not 13, when it comes to cap holds. |
Kobe: $23.5M
Sacre: 0.9M
Nash: 3.2M (stretched over 3 years)
#5 Draft pick: $3.0M
MLE: $2.7M (Room Exception)
Vet Min x 8: $7.1M ($884k per)
Thanks for the corrections. With the following corrections, there is now $21.7M in cap room. I use the Vet Min (and most calculations would also) because the idea of committing yourself to having to fill in the rest of your roster with undrafted rookie players is unfathomable. The minimum you would go with is the Vet Min so that you could fill in with serviceable players. Since the 2015 first round pick is most likely going to Phoenix, the theme will be to win, win, win next year. |
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emplay
Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Posts: 25549
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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should be be correcting math or just letting things go?
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emplay
Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Posts: 25549
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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here's the math if the Lakers cut absolutely everyone not-guaranteed - and pick 6th - and the cap comes in at $62.9 mil
Kobe Bryant $23,500,000.00
Steve Nash $3,233,667.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $915,243.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
6th pick $2,736,100.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
Total $34,951,034.00
Cap Estimate $62,900,000.00
Space $(27,948,966.00)
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emplay
Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Posts: 25549
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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team would have $2.7 mil to spend after cap used.
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Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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They better stretch the heck out of Nash's contract. That extra 6m is huge.
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emplay
Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers are NOT likely to stretch Nash
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emplay
Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Posts: 25549
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Unless the Lakers absolutely need the cap - they are more likely to make sure they have more to spend in 2015 and 2016 - stretching could make it harder to get players like Love and Durant - so stretch to make sure you get Deng types? Not the priority - though things could change, esp. in trade opportunities that might arise.
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| bongojoe wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | bongojoe wrote: | | Kobe's Era wrote: | | bongojoe wrote: | A better idea of what cap space is available is seen when you account for cap holds.
When looking at a minimum roster and to see what the max space might be, you need to fill in empty roster spots with veteran minimum salaries, account for the MLE and insert an expected rookie salary based on expect draft position.
If there is only Kobe and Sacre (Nash is stretched and all other FA are renounced) then team salary stands at:
Kobe: $23.5M
Sacre: 0.9M
Nash: 3.2M (stretched over 3 years)
#5 Draft pick: $3.0M
MLE: $5.3M
Vet Min x 9: $7.9M ($884k per)
That comes out to $43.8M in team salary. Projected Salary Cap is $62.1M (per Larry Coon), giving the team the freedom of having $18.3 before hitting the salary cap. If you keep Nash, so as to get him off the books as quickly as possible, that number is reduced by $6.5M, to only $11.8M in cap space.
So there isn't really that much salary cap space for next year. And once players start signing for next year, several will only sign for at least 2 years, so the cap space will be further reduced after next year. Something to think about. |
mle and vet min dont apply to the projected cap for 2014 |
If you want to know how much you have to spend on free agents, it would not be correct to simply quote a figure that does not include the total minimal amount you are committed to spending in team salary. A team is required to have at least 13 players. If you are short of that, then you need to include Roster Holds that are calculated at the veteran minimum. Also, included in the team salary calculation is a hold for the MLE the team may end up using. It is included in the calculation of your team salary regardless of whether you actually use it or not. The only way around it being calculated into your salary cap would be by renouncing the MLE for that year.
The CBA of 2011 ushers in a whole new era in how players are signed and how team rosters are managed. If you are not familiar with the provisions, you are at a severe disadvantage in trying to determine who you are eligible to sign and for how much. You may still be thinking about how team salary is calculated prior to the 2011 CBA.
Things are much different now, and it is also why Kobe's new deal is such a big deal. If you do sign a near max contract player, there will be practically no one else of any worth on the team. This is why I think it is better to just re-sign Pau so then you don't have to gut the roster. You can then re-sign Swaggy P, Hill, etc. |
1. You don't have to count the MLE. The team can renounce it, use their cap space and then use a room MLE of 2.7 mil afterward.
2. The minimum cap holds are at the rookie nondrafted minimum of 507k for 2014 (rising to 525k in 2015).
3. You only have to account for 12 roster spots, not 13, when it comes to cap holds. |
Kobe: $23.5M
Sacre: 0.9M
Nash: 3.2M (stretched over 3 years)
#5 Draft pick: $3.0M
MLE: $2.7M (Room Exception)
Vet Min x 8: $7.1M ($884k per)
Thanks for the corrections. With the following corrections, there is now $21.7M in cap room. I use the Vet Min (and most calculations would also) because the idea of committing yourself to having to fill in the rest of your roster with undrafted rookie players is unfathomable. The minimum you would go with is the Vet Min so that you could fill in with serviceable players. Since the 2015 first round pick is most likely going to Phoenix, the theme will be to win, win, win next year. |
Whether you'd actually use the rookie minimum is immaterial. That's all you are required to "hold" against the cap. It doesn't mean that's what you actually have to spend. You can use the full vet minimum later with no penalty, or the room MLE.
You also don't count the room MLE in your cap holds. You use it after you've used up your cap space.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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bongojoe
Rookie
Joined: 31 Mar 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | here's the math if the Lakers cut absolutely everyone not-guaranteed - and pick 6th - and the cap comes in at $62.9 mil
Kobe Bryant $23,500,000.00
Steve Nash $3,233,667.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $915,243.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
6th pick $2,736,100.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
roster hold $507,336.00
Total $34,951,034.00
Cap Estimate $62,900,000.00
Space $(27,948,966.00) |
Thanks for doing this. By having examples, the average guy can now understand to a much greater extent and start to realize what is and what is not possible. Now they can also see how much is available if Nash is not stretched and plug in how much is left if, for example, Hill is re-signed for $6M, etc.
Very helpful and very educational. |
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