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Omar Little
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 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
then they need to look over there shoulder and see what the spurs are doing right. Hell look at what dallas did. they brought in a few guys and have turned things around in 1 season. . |
Huh? The Mavs were a .500 team a year ago in large part because Dirk missed 20 games to injuries. He's healthy now and they are the 7th seed (roughly at the same winning percentage they had in the games he played last year - they were 27-20 in games he played).
They aren't some great one-year rebuild story. Just the opposite - they are a mediocre, old team on the cusp of having to rebuild. |
They also had the cap space to sign FA's last summer. The Lakers spent all they could. |
After striking out on the big free agents 2 years in a row, Cuban changed strategy and signed some mid level FA's to try and provide Dirk with a playoff capable team while preserving some future cap space and hoping the guys they signed are trade assets. Not entirely a stupid strategy.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
then they need to look over there shoulder and see what the spurs are doing right. Hell look at what dallas did. they brought in a few guys and have turned things around in 1 season. . |
Huh? The Mavs were a .500 team a year ago in large part because Dirk missed 20 games to injuries. He's healthy now and they are the 7th seed (roughly at the same winning percentage they had in the games he played last year - they were 27-20 in games he played).
They aren't some great one-year rebuild story. Just the opposite - they are a mediocre, old team on the cusp of having to rebuild. |
They also had the cap space to sign FA's last summer. The Lakers spent all they could. |
After striking out on the big free agents 2 years in a row, Cuban changed strategy and signed some mid level FA's to try and provide Dirk with a playoff capable team while preserving some future cap space and hoping the guys they signed are trade assets. Not entirely a stupid strategy. |
It was an OK strategy. But it wasn't some amazing rebuilding. They signed 32-year-old Samuel Dalambert and 32-year-old Jose Calderon to go along with old-timers Dirk, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter and 28-year-old Monta Ellis.
As I said, their performance with Jose and Samuel isn't much better than it was without them in the games Dirk played last year. So the "improvement" is less about adding them than about getting Dirk back.
And right now, they are cruising along in the 7th seed. They may make the playoffs or not (the 9th seed is only 1.5 games behind them.) If they make the playoffs, they'll likely get bounced in the first round by OKC or the Spurs. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
then they need to look over there shoulder and see what the spurs are doing right. Hell look at what dallas did. they brought in a few guys and have turned things around in 1 season. . |
Huh? The Mavs were a .500 team a year ago in large part because Dirk missed 20 games to injuries. He's healthy now and they are the 7th seed (roughly at the same winning percentage they had in the games he played last year - they were 27-20 in games he played).
They aren't some great one-year rebuild story. Just the opposite - they are a mediocre, old team on the cusp of having to rebuild. |
They also had the cap space to sign FA's last summer. The Lakers spent all they could. |
After striking out on the big free agents 2 years in a row, Cuban changed strategy and signed some mid level FA's to try and provide Dirk with a playoff capable team while preserving some future cap space and hoping the guys they signed are trade assets. Not entirely a stupid strategy. |
It was an OK strategy. But it wasn't some amazing rebuilding. They signed 32-year-old Samuel Dalambert and 32-year-old Jose Calderon to go along with old-timers Dirk, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter and 28-year-old Monta Ellis.
As I said, their performance with Jose and Samuel isn't much better than it was without them in the games Dirk played last year. So the "improvement" is less about adding them than about getting Dirk back.
And right now, they are cruising along in the 7th seed. They may make the playoffs or not (the 9th seed is only 1.5 games behind them.) If they make the playoffs, they'll likely get bounced in the first round by OKC or the Spurs. |
Agreed. I was just adding some perspective. OK is a decent summation. Not great but not bad either. Maybe the best they could do in the circumstances.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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section101
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
then they need to look over there shoulder and see what the spurs are doing right. Hell look at what dallas did. they brought in a few guys and have turned things around in 1 season. . |
Huh? The Mavs were a .500 team a year ago in large part because Dirk missed 20 games to injuries. He's healthy now and they are the 7th seed (roughly at the same winning percentage they had in the games he played last year - they were 27-20 in games he played).
They aren't some great one-year rebuild story. Just the opposite - they are a mediocre, old team on the cusp of having to rebuild. |
They also had the cap space to sign FA's last summer. The Lakers spent all they could. |
After striking out on the big free agents 2 years in a row, Cuban changed strategy and signed some mid level FA's to try and provide Dirk with a playoff capable team while preserving some future cap space and hoping the guys they signed are trade assets. Not entirely a stupid strategy. |
It was an OK strategy. But it wasn't some amazing rebuilding. They signed 32-year-old Samuel Dalambert and 32-year-old Jose Calderon to go along with old-timers Dirk, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter and 28-year-old Monta Ellis.
As I said, their performance with Jose and Samuel isn't much better than it was without them in the games Dirk played last year. So the "improvement" is less about adding them than about getting Dirk back.
And right now, they are cruising along in the 7th seed. They may make the playoffs or not (the 9th seed is only 1.5 games behind them.) If they make the playoffs, they'll likely get bounced in the first round by OKC or the Spurs. |
Point is Cuban went out and did something. Look how old that team is, still playing a aging Vince carter and shawn maron. He went out and did something while we stood around and signed a bunch of no name guys.
The lakers management has just had some awful contracts that have hurt the feature of this team starting with Nash. |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| section101 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
then they need to look over there shoulder and see what the spurs are doing right. Hell look at what dallas did. they brought in a few guys and have turned things around in 1 season. . |
Huh? The Mavs were a .500 team a year ago in large part because Dirk missed 20 games to injuries. He's healthy now and they are the 7th seed (roughly at the same winning percentage they had in the games he played last year - they were 27-20 in games he played).
They aren't some great one-year rebuild story. Just the opposite - they are a mediocre, old team on the cusp of having to rebuild. |
They also had the cap space to sign FA's last summer. The Lakers spent all they could. |
After striking out on the big free agents 2 years in a row, Cuban changed strategy and signed some mid level FA's to try and provide Dirk with a playoff capable team while preserving some future cap space and hoping the guys they signed are trade assets. Not entirely a stupid strategy. |
It was an OK strategy. But it wasn't some amazing rebuilding. They signed 32-year-old Samuel Dalambert and 32-year-old Jose Calderon to go along with old-timers Dirk, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter and 28-year-old Monta Ellis.
As I said, their performance with Jose and Samuel isn't much better than it was without them in the games Dirk played last year. So the "improvement" is less about adding them than about getting Dirk back.
And right now, they are cruising along in the 7th seed. They may make the playoffs or not (the 9th seed is only 1.5 games behind them.) If they make the playoffs, they'll likely get bounced in the first round by OKC or the Spurs. |
Point is Cuban went out and did something. Look how old that team is, still playing a aging Vince carter and shawn maron. He went out and did something while we stood around and signed a bunch of no name guys.
The lakers management has just had some awful contracts that have hurt the feature of this team starting with Nash. |
Mavs had cap space. Lakers didn't and wouldn't even without Nash. |
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section101
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | section101 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
then they need to look over there shoulder and see what the spurs are doing right. Hell look at what dallas did. they brought in a few guys and have turned things around in 1 season. . |
Huh? The Mavs were a .500 team a year ago in large part because Dirk missed 20 games to injuries. He's healthy now and they are the 7th seed (roughly at the same winning percentage they had in the games he played last year - they were 27-20 in games he played).
They aren't some great one-year rebuild story. Just the opposite - they are a mediocre, old team on the cusp of having to rebuild. |
They also had the cap space to sign FA's last summer. The Lakers spent all they could. |
After striking out on the big free agents 2 years in a row, Cuban changed strategy and signed some mid level FA's to try and provide Dirk with a playoff capable team while preserving some future cap space and hoping the guys they signed are trade assets. Not entirely a stupid strategy. |
It was an OK strategy. But it wasn't some amazing rebuilding. They signed 32-year-old Samuel Dalambert and 32-year-old Jose Calderon to go along with old-timers Dirk, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter and 28-year-old Monta Ellis.
As I said, their performance with Jose and Samuel isn't much better than it was without them in the games Dirk played last year. So the "improvement" is less about adding them than about getting Dirk back.
And right now, they are cruising along in the 7th seed. They may make the playoffs or not (the 9th seed is only 1.5 games behind them.) If they make the playoffs, they'll likely get bounced in the first round by OKC or the Spurs. |
Point is Cuban went out and did something. Look how old that team is, still playing a aging Vince carter and shawn maron. He went out and did something while we stood around and signed a bunch of no name guys.
The lakers management has just had some awful contracts that have hurt the feature of this team starting with Nash. |
Mavs had cap space. Lakers didn't and wouldn't even without Nash. |
that goes back to management's fault. At the end of the day this team is a business... and they failed in so many ways. I believe that tv contract has not helped the team in a way it can always fall back on tv money and risk having a few bad seasons. I wonder how things would have been if there was no tv money coming in... |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| section101 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
then they need to look over there shoulder and see what the spurs are doing right. Hell look at what dallas did. they brought in a few guys and have turned things around in 1 season. . |
Huh? The Mavs were a .500 team a year ago in large part because Dirk missed 20 games to injuries. He's healthy now and they are the 7th seed (roughly at the same winning percentage they had in the games he played last year - they were 27-20 in games he played).
They aren't some great one-year rebuild story. Just the opposite - they are a mediocre, old team on the cusp of having to rebuild. |
They also had the cap space to sign FA's last summer. The Lakers spent all they could. |
After striking out on the big free agents 2 years in a row, Cuban changed strategy and signed some mid level FA's to try and provide Dirk with a playoff capable team while preserving some future cap space and hoping the guys they signed are trade assets. Not entirely a stupid strategy. |
It was an OK strategy. But it wasn't some amazing rebuilding. They signed 32-year-old Samuel Dalambert and 32-year-old Jose Calderon to go along with old-timers Dirk, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter and 28-year-old Monta Ellis.
As I said, their performance with Jose and Samuel isn't much better than it was without them in the games Dirk played last year. So the "improvement" is less about adding them than about getting Dirk back.
And right now, they are cruising along in the 7th seed. They may make the playoffs or not (the 9th seed is only 1.5 games behind them.) If they make the playoffs, they'll likely get bounced in the first round by OKC or the Spurs. |
Point is Cuban went out and did something. Look how old that team is, still playing a aging Vince carter and shawn maron. He went out and did something while we stood around and signed a bunch of no name guys.
The lakers management has just had some awful contracts that have hurt the feature of this team starting with Nash. |
This is the most frustrating thing about these types of discussions. The fact that the lakers didn't have any cap room to go out and sign guys might be a small factor in who they did sign...
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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section101
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | section101 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
then they need to look over there shoulder and see what the spurs are doing right. Hell look at what dallas did. they brought in a few guys and have turned things around in 1 season. . |
Huh? The Mavs were a .500 team a year ago in large part because Dirk missed 20 games to injuries. He's healthy now and they are the 7th seed (roughly at the same winning percentage they had in the games he played last year - they were 27-20 in games he played).
They aren't some great one-year rebuild story. Just the opposite - they are a mediocre, old team on the cusp of having to rebuild. |
They also had the cap space to sign FA's last summer. The Lakers spent all they could. |
After striking out on the big free agents 2 years in a row, Cuban changed strategy and signed some mid level FA's to try and provide Dirk with a playoff capable team while preserving some future cap space and hoping the guys they signed are trade assets. Not entirely a stupid strategy. |
It was an OK strategy. But it wasn't some amazing rebuilding. They signed 32-year-old Samuel Dalambert and 32-year-old Jose Calderon to go along with old-timers Dirk, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter and 28-year-old Monta Ellis.
As I said, their performance with Jose and Samuel isn't much better than it was without them in the games Dirk played last year. So the "improvement" is less about adding them than about getting Dirk back.
And right now, they are cruising along in the 7th seed. They may make the playoffs or not (the 9th seed is only 1.5 games behind them.) If they make the playoffs, they'll likely get bounced in the first round by OKC or the Spurs. |
Point is Cuban went out and did something. Look how old that team is, still playing a aging Vince carter and shawn maron. He went out and did something while we stood around and signed a bunch of no name guys.
The lakers management has just had some awful contracts that have hurt the feature of this team starting with Nash. |
This is the most frustrating thing about these types of discussions. The fact that the lakers didn't have any cap room to go out and sign guys might be a small factor in who they did sign... |
How did we end up with such bad cap space then it did not happen overnight. I am sure when teams sign players they do look at the feature of how the payroll is going to shape up. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| section101 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | section101 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
then they need to look over there shoulder and see what the spurs are doing right. Hell look at what dallas did. they brought in a few guys and have turned things around in 1 season. . |
Huh? The Mavs were a .500 team a year ago in large part because Dirk missed 20 games to injuries. He's healthy now and they are the 7th seed (roughly at the same winning percentage they had in the games he played last year - they were 27-20 in games he played).
They aren't some great one-year rebuild story. Just the opposite - they are a mediocre, old team on the cusp of having to rebuild. |
They also had the cap space to sign FA's last summer. The Lakers spent all they could. |
After striking out on the big free agents 2 years in a row, Cuban changed strategy and signed some mid level FA's to try and provide Dirk with a playoff capable team while preserving some future cap space and hoping the guys they signed are trade assets. Not entirely a stupid strategy. |
It was an OK strategy. But it wasn't some amazing rebuilding. They signed 32-year-old Samuel Dalambert and 32-year-old Jose Calderon to go along with old-timers Dirk, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter and 28-year-old Monta Ellis.
As I said, their performance with Jose and Samuel isn't much better than it was without them in the games Dirk played last year. So the "improvement" is less about adding them than about getting Dirk back.
And right now, they are cruising along in the 7th seed. They may make the playoffs or not (the 9th seed is only 1.5 games behind them.) If they make the playoffs, they'll likely get bounced in the first round by OKC or the Spurs. |
Point is Cuban went out and did something. Look how old that team is, still playing a aging Vince carter and shawn maron. He went out and did something while we stood around and signed a bunch of no name guys.
The lakers management has just had some awful contracts that have hurt the feature of this team starting with Nash. |
This is the most frustrating thing about these types of discussions. The fact that the lakers didn't have any cap room to go out and sign guys might be a small factor in who they did sign... |
How did we end up with such bad cap space then it did not happen overnight. I am sure when teams sign players they do look at the feature of how the payroll is going to shape up. |
Setting aside your moving the goal posts, the cap space wasn't there because LA went all in on a big plan to get another title with Kobe and Pau. And even if they hadn't, the contracts they signed those 2 players to back during the title years take up most of the cap. Not sure how you expected LA to compete with Kobe and Pau in 2010 but magically stop paying them immediately after. That's not how things work.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| section101 wrote: |
Point is Cuban went out and did something. Look how old that team is, still playing a aging Vince carter and shawn maron. He went out and did something while we stood around and signed a bunch of no name guys. . |
Cuban signed a couple of mediocre free agents who have resulted in the team winning at about the same pace as they did last year when Dirk was starting.
Basically, they switched out Dalembert and Calderon for Collison, Kamen and Brand. The result: their winning percentage when Dirk started improved from 57% to 60% -- roughly two more wins over the course of an entire season.
Why does that impress you so much? |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
Point is Cuban went out and did something. Look how old that team is, still playing a aging Vince carter and shawn maron. He went out and did something while we stood around and signed a bunch of no name guys. . |
Cuban signed a couple of mediocre free agents who have resulted in the team winning at about the same pace as they did last year when Dirk was starting.
Basically, they switched out Dalembert and Calderon for Collison, Kamen and Brand. The result: their winning percentage when Dirk started improved from 57% to 60% -- roughly two more wins over the course of an entire season.
Why does that impress you so much? |
And Monta for Mayo
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
Point is Cuban went out and did something. Look how old that team is, still playing a aging Vince carter and shawn maron. He went out and did something while we stood around and signed a bunch of no name guys. . |
Cuban signed a couple of mediocre free agents who have resulted in the team winning at about the same pace as they did last year when Dirk was starting.
Basically, they switched out Dalembert and Calderon for Collison, Kamen and Brand. The result: their winning percentage when Dirk started improved from 57% to 60% -- roughly two more wins over the course of an entire season.
Why does that impress you so much? |
And Monta for Mayo |
That too. Overall, pretty much of a wash regarding the free agents who left and the new ones who came in. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think the basic issue is that a lot of laker fans are really globetrotter fans. Their team is entitled to just have the best players and win all the time. The fact that LA has defied the law of averages even as the other owners tighten the noose should please fans, but in many cases, it just makes them feel that titles on demand are their birthright.
I enjoyed the 2000 title as much as any, precisely because I had to wait for it and appreciated how hard it is to do.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| section101 wrote: |
that goes back to management's fault. At the end of the day this team is a business... and they failed in so many ways. I believe that tv contract has not helped the team in a way it can always fall back on tv money and risk having a few bad seasons. I wonder how things would have been if there was no tv money coming in... |
Failing businesses don't make large profits, so I have to disagree with you there. And they went for broke and another title with Howard and Nash, that used to be something that fans liked to see their FOs do.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | I think the basic issue is that a lot of laker fans are really globetrotter fans. Their team is entitled to just have the best players and win all the time. The fact that LA has defied the law of averages even as the other owners tighten the noose should please fans, but in many cases, it just makes them feel that titles on demand are their birthright.
I enjoyed the 2000 title as much as any, precisely because I had to wait for it and appreciated how hard it is to do. |
And the funny thing is the wait for the 2000 titles -- 12 years -- wasn't really that long in the scheme of things.
The Pistons waited 14 years between titles. The Celtics 22 years. Most teams have won one or no titles.
We could easily be in for a decade wait or more til our next title. |
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VocabuLaker
Star Player
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Posts: 1035
Location: Venice Beach
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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And the funny thing is the wait for the 2000 titles -- 12 years -- wasn't really that long in the scheme of things.
The Pistons waited 14 years between titles. The Celtics 22 years. Most teams have won one or no titles.
We could easily be in for a decade wait or more til our next title.[/quote]
Exactly: everyone must be patient: But I wonder how many season ticket holders canceled during the large gaps?
18 year gap? 8 year gap? 12 year gap? then 7 year gap?
Lakers Titles:
1948, 1949, 1950, 1952, 1953, 1954,
18 years later:
1972,
8 years later:
1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988,
12 years later:
2000, 2001, 2002,
7 years later:
2009, 2010 |
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section101
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
Point is Cuban went out and did something. Look how old that team is, still playing a aging Vince carter and shawn maron. He went out and did something while we stood around and signed a bunch of no name guys. . |
Cuban signed a couple of mediocre free agents who have resulted in the team winning at about the same pace as they did last year when Dirk was starting.
Basically, they switched out Dalembert and Calderon for Collison, Kamen and Brand. The result: their winning percentage when Dirk started improved from 57% to 60% -- roughly two more wins over the course of an entire season.
Why does that impress you so much? |
From a business stand point the guy is getting things done, hes filling up his stadium and about to make the playoffs.
and dont give me that laker tickets have sold out almost all yr long either. resell value of seats has dropped to about 50% or more |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| section101 wrote: |
From a business stand point the guy is getting things done, hes filling up his stadium and about to make the playoffs.
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Man, you're all over the place. You start off talking about what a great rebuilding job he did. Once that gets swatted away, you're now onto his getting things done "from a business standpoint"?
Like I said - last season Dirk was hurt, this year he's healthy. That's why they're probably making the playoffs again (though that may come down to the last game of the season against Memphis) and why their attendance is up a little. I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make other than it's not good when your superstar is hurt. |
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VocabuLaker
Star Player
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1035
Location: Venice Beach
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | section101 wrote: |
From a business stand point the guy is getting things done, hes filling up his stadium and about to make the playoffs.
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Man, you're all over the place. You start off talking about what a great rebuilding job he did. Once that gets swatted away, you're now onto his getting things done "from a business standpoint"?
Like I said - last season Dirk was hurt, this year he's healthy. That's why they're probably making the playoffs again (though that may come down to the last game of the season against Memphis) and why their attendance is up a little. I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make other than it's not good when your superstar is hurt. |
Perhaps we should be chatting about Jim Buss ? |
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