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 Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:56 am Post subject: Alonzo Mourning, Mitch Richmond reportedly elected to Hall of Fame |
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http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/03/alonzo-mourning-mitch-richmond-reportedly-elected-to-hall-of-fame/
| Quote: | Alonzo Mourning, Mitch Richmond reportedly elected to Hall of Fame
The NBA doesn’t have a Hall of Fame, leaving the duty of honoring its all-time greats to the Basketball Hall of Fame – an organization hung up on honoring players and coaches (way too many coaches) based on accomplishments at lesser levels. Its processes are both screwed up and secretive (though maybe the former will get marginally better).
Advice: Never predict who will be enshrined, and don’t dwell on who should be enshrined. It doesn’t make sense and won’t make sense.
But that doesn’t mean we can’t take a few moments to honor those elected in what’s still a huge honor. Five former NBA players were finalists this year, and two were reportedly elected.
In:
Alonzo Mourning
Mitch Richmond
Out:
Tim Hardaway
Kevin Johnson
Spencer Haywood
Mourning’s career overlapped with a some of the NBA’s all-time great centers: Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing and Shaquille O’Neal. Mourning might not be in the same class as those four, but he was smaller (6-foot-10, 240 pounds) than them and still held his own, adding to the era’s remarkable pivots rather than falling short of the standard. With a bulldog attitude, Mourning dominated defensively, hit the glass hard and scored strongly inside.
He began his career with the Charlotte Hornets, but when he demanded a huge new contract, they traded him to the Miami Heat. Mourning became the Heat’s first star player, helping to make Miami a cool place to play and possibly laying the groundwork for LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh to sign there years later.
Multiple times, it appeared kidney disease would end Mourning’s career, and he even retired in 2003. But he retuned to the NBA, and in his second stint with the Heat, he won the 2006 championship as a role player.
Richmond was a pure and dependable scorer, ranking 12th all time with 10 seasons averaging at least 21 points per game. For a while, he and Reggie Miller vied for the title of No. 2 shooting guard in the world behind Michael Jordan.
As a long-range gunner, Richmond was ahead of his time. When Richmond retired, only Dale Ellis, Glen Rice and Reggie Miller had taken more 3-pointers (3,417) and made a higher percentage of them (38.8).
But Richmond never experienced much team-wide success, at least as a major contributor. He won just two playoff series his entire career, one each his rookie and third seasons as a Golden State Warrior. After that, he made the playoffs only once in seven seasons with the Sacramento Kings and never in three seasons with the Washington Wizards. In his final season, 2001-02, Richmond won a championship with the Lakers as a little-used reserved.
Hardaway, Johnson and Hayood could be elected in future seasons. Each had fine careers.
But with the Basketball Hall of Fame, who knows? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Mourning was the best high school player I ever saw.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Both are undeserved if you ask me. I liked them both and both were good, but not legendary. |
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Sacreligious
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Mourning deserves to be in the hall of fame.
Richmond though, not so much. If Richmond gets in, I think KJ should get in. Being a mayor and keeping the home team in town has to mean for something right? |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Both are undeserved if you ask me. I liked them both and both were good, but not legendary. |
There are plenty of guys in the Hall of Fame who aren't legendary. In fact, if that were the criteria at least 75% of the Hall of Famers would be kicked out.
That said, Mourning and Richmond won't be the worst Hall of Famers, but they'll certainly be in the group of lesser, borderline members. Personally, I wouldn't have voted for either. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Both are undeserved if you ask me. I liked them both and both were good, but not legendary. |
There are plenty of guys in the Hall of Fame who aren't legendary. In fact, if that were the criteria at least 75% of the Hall of Famers would be kicked out.
That said, Mourning and Richmond won't be the worst Hall of Famers, but they'll certainly be in the group of lesser, borderline members. Personally, I wouldn't have voted for either. |
Dantley and Dumars. Seems like they need recognizable names lately, not just the sure fire guys. I'm sure they would've liked to have spread out Jordan, Robinson, and Stockton into 3 years.
Richmond beats all expectations of what you would consider a HOFer. No MVP, no titles that he won as a starter, played on bad teams for most of his career. Scored a lot, shot well...HOF. He was a very good player, but he's a guy that you wouldn't even consider a leading candidate for league MVP. There's not even a seminal moment of his career that immediately comes to mind. Some people said Reggie Miller was iffy for the HOF, but at least his mythos was great enough without winning a title. They're going to have to show a bunch of clips of Mitch on the Kings and Wizards and they're gonna overstate the legend of RUN TMC, a trio that lasted all of 3 or so years. Everything he's accomplished is in the vain of his individual matchups with other players in games that his teams usually lost, not the usual team leader / franchise glory angle. Hard to do that when you've played for the 90s Kings. They WILL mention that he won a title in 2002, but they WILL leave out that he only played in the last 30 secs of the Finals. Joe D has a more complete storyline than Mitch.
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dabask11
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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2028: Joe Johnson reportedly elected to the hall of fame   |
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Peoples Hernandez
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dabask11 wrote: | | 2028: Joe Johnson reportedly elected to the hall of fame |
That's pretty much what they're saying by electing Richmond.
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Runway8
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| Alonzo Mourning is the guy I always bring up when talking about Dwight Coward. That's who Howard should be compared to, not the Shaqs, not the Hakeems. And I would take Zo in his prime over Dwight. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | Alonzo Mourning is the guy I always bring up when talking about Dwight Coward. That's who Howard should be compared to, not the Shaqs, not the Hakeems. And I would take Zo in his prime over Dwight. |
Oh, no doubt. Zo had a professional attitude and an aggressive disposition. No one ever questioned his hustle, work ethic, and desire to play D. He took as many packs to the face as Bradley, but he still kept trying, which has become recognized as one of his worthier traits.
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Birmingham
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Mourning was the best high school player I ever saw. |
So basically you're saying Zo belongs in the HOF because he was the best HS player you ever saw? Huh? |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| Birmingham wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Mourning was the best high school player I ever saw. |
So basically you're saying Zo belongs in the HOF because he was the best HS player you ever saw? Huh? |
This is a tangent, but Zo is the bloke I think of when I see message boarders who weren't around 20 yrs ago or who forgot about Shaq's level of athleticism. I most recently saw some of that stuff in the Wilt thread in the Genforum. Zo was how many lbs lighter than Shaq and Shaq dribbles halfcourt and does a full speed spin move around Zidek for a dunk. Shaq takes off from the dots and kemps it down Cato's throat. Shaq reaches a halfcourt lob from Van Exel that looked like it was going over the glass (I saw it live, up'd the clip on my channel). Where were those plays from the lighter, smaller Zo? Shaq was one of the most freakish anomalies in league history. Equal imo to Magic as the best PG in the league at 6'9" and Chuck at 6'4" rebounding like a beast. They were so good you would tend to forget that they didn't fit the mold. Likewise, Shaq was the most proportioned and athletic 340 lb 7 footer you'll ever see. Many centers pushing Shaq's fit weight have been flat out obese (Duck, Oliver, Eddy, Turpin, Roberts, etc). Strong as a bull w/o being particularly cut, too. Took a rim out of the glass from the -front- (in the clip with Ahmad Rashad) and of course destroyed two other basket supports in his first couple years. There won't be another one of him.
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Both are undeserved if you ask me. I liked them both and both were good, but not legendary. |
sure they were legendary. just not on tier 1 with magic, bird, jordan, kobe, kareem, wilt types.
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | Alonzo Mourning is the guy I always bring up when talking about Dwight Coward. That's who Howard should be compared to, not the Shaqs, not the Hakeems. And I would take Zo in his prime over Dwight. |
bingo
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: |
Dantley and Dumars. Seems like they need recognizable names lately, not just the sure fire guys. |
The only thing I've noticed is the last few years than have left in a number of guys who were eligible for a long time -- Bernard King, Dennis Johnson, Artis Gilmore, Chet Walker. But I wouldn't call them particular recognizable names. The HOF is completely secret, so it may be as simple as them changing some of the voters.
| non-player zealot wrote: | | Richmond beats all expectations of what you would consider a HOFer. No MVP, no titles that he won as a starter, played on bad teams for most of his career. Scored a lot, shot well...HOF. |
There are a number of H of Famers who didn't win rings or MVPs. But you're right it's unusual for them to play on bad teams too. |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| And people think Pau isn't Hall worthy? His international accomplishments alone eclipse either of these guys, great as both these guys were as players. Loved Zo and Mitch back in the day, but neither are really HoF material. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | And people think Pau isn't Hall worthy? His international accomplishments alone eclipse either of these guys, great as both these guys were as players. Loved Zo and Mitch back in the day, but neither are really HoF material. |
Yeah, but that's a bad argument: "Player X deserves to get in because he's better than Player A and B, who didn't deserve to be in the Hall but got voted in."
That's like saying, if the Hall makes a mistake and puts in a less-deserving guy he immediately becomes the standard and all less-deserving guys should get in.
I take the other approach: If you ranked everyone in the Hall at a particular position, from #1 to #20 or however many there are, where would a new guy fall. If it's near the top that tells you something; if it's near the bottom that tells you something too. |
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Jeggs
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem with the hall of fame is that they have to have people inducted every year. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeggs wrote: | | The problem with the hall of fame is that they have to have people inducted every year. |
There actually have been years where they didn't induct anyone, so there isn't a mandate to put someone in every year. That said, there is zero transparency in their complex systems, with all the many groups and sub groups of voters, so it's anyone's guess how they make their decisions. |
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LuciusAllen
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | And people think Pau isn't Hall worthy? His international accomplishments alone eclipse either of these guys, great as both these guys were as players. Loved Zo and Mitch back in the day, but neither are really HoF material. |
Yeah, but that's a bad argument: "Player X deserves to get in because he's better than Player A and B, who didn't deserve to be in the Hall but got voted in."
That's like saying, if the Hall makes a mistake and puts in a less-deserving guy he immediately becomes the standard and all less-deserving guys should get in.
I take the other approach: If you ranked everyone in the Hall at a particular position, from #1 to #20 or however many there are, where would a new guy fall. If it's near the top that tells you something; if it's near the bottom that tells you something too. |
I understand that the standard for entry should not be continuously lowered, but I think that many posters here feel the entry standards should be impossibly high.
The HOF is about celebrating and educating fans on the depth and breadth of the sport's great contributors and moments. Everybody knows who the very greatest players are. What makes it interesting (at least from my perspective) is the other people you may have forgotten or never known.
One possible analogy might be this. You like art, and you are in Paris. You go to the Louvre. And housed inside are ONLY the Mona Lisa, the Venus de Milo, Winged Victory, and the handful of things everybody knows about. And that's it. Nothing else. It's cool to see those pieces, but your visit won't really expand your knowledge or appreciation of art.
Zo and Richmond are worthy HOF inductees. Their contributions to the sport are significant.
Last edited by LuciusAllen on Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sacreligious
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Something I thought of in order to justify Richmond being in the hall.
Why not just put in "Run TMC" in the Hall instead of just Richmond? The Dream team is in the hall so why not put another group who had more impact together than apart? I'd argue TMC was one of the more popular teams back in the day and I would have no problem with them being a part of the hall TOGETHER. |
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dabask11
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Peoples Hernandez wrote: | | dabask11 wrote: | | 2028: Joe Johnson reportedly elected to the hall of fame |
That's pretty much what they're saying by electing Richmond. |
Exactly.
The thought of overpaid Joe Johnson being mentioned along Jordan, Bird, Kobe etc. 40 years from now makes me facepalm. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Sacreligious wrote: | Something I thought of in order to justify Richmond being in the hall.
Why not just put in "Run TMC" in the Hall instead of just Richmond? The Dream team is in the hall so why not put another group who had more impact together than apart? I'd argue TMC was one of the more popular teams back in the day and I would have no problem with them being a part of the hall TOGETHER. |
In basketball history, 9 teams have made the Hall, and they are legendary teams. Do you honestly think Run TMC is one of the 10 most legendary teams of all time?
Honestly, if they inducted that team in the Hall, it would be the equivalent of inducting Kurt Rambis. |
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Conker
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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I always like Zo. Grew up watching him in the 1990's here in Miami. But come on, son. They need to elect 3 individuals to the Hall of Fame at a time.
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Peoples Hernandez
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Sacreligious wrote: | Something I thought of in order to justify Richmond being in the hall.
Why not just put in "Run TMC" in the Hall instead of just Richmond? The Dream team is in the hall so why not put another group who had more impact together than apart? I'd argue TMC was one of the more popular teams back in the day and I would have no problem with them being a part of the hall TOGETHER. |
In basketball history, 9 teams have made the Hall, and they are legendary teams. Do you honestly think Run TMC is one of the 10 most legendary teams of all time?
Honestly, if they inducted that team in the Hall, it would be the equivalent of inducting Kurt Rambis. |
Furthermore, There are way more deserving all-time teams out there than Run-TMC . Namely:
The Bad Boy Pistons
Fab Five Michigan Wolverines
The Runnin' Rebels of UNLV
Seven Seconds or Less Suns (We all hate M'A but the 04-05 team changed pro basketball as we knew it... Ask Riley and Spolestra)
and of course our very own:
SHOWTIME LAKERS!!!
..All of those teams deserve to be in the HOF before Run-TMC
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