Report: Lakers leaning toward firing Mike D'Antoni
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:48 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Lakers have never played 7 seconds or less.


The lakers are 2nd in the league in PACE.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/paceFactor

Take a look at our team stats. When you have a team like this, Pace is key.
If you are the worse team on the floor, create less possessions. That way the other (better) team has less opportunities to exert their superiority.

If MDA slowed our team's pace and did everything else the same I would like him twice as much.


Worse teams tend to want to up the pace to create more of a ragged up and down game where they can minimize the talent advantage of the better team. You slow the pace if you play better at a slower pace, or if it creates difficulty for your opponent.


That works if you are a bad team with an above average point guard. We haven't had a healthy point guard all year. We're a bad team with size. Pace should be slower.

I loved Nash, Blake, farmar, and Marshall to death but our pace shouldn't be faster than the timberwolves (Rubio), magic (jameer Nelson), celtics (rondo), cavs (Irving), pistons (Jennings), nuggets (Lawson). Those are bad teams that should push the ball like you were saying.

This lakers roster with age, size, and injuries all year at the playmaking position shouldn't be 2nd in the league in pace
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:12 pm    Post subject:

kray28_ wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I would throw Kaman in as well, he has always been a malcontent.


If he is, he doesn't really have a reputation as one. He's been fine on plenty of other teams prior to this. We could have really used his help if we were serious about contending at all this season.

It's plainly clear that his style of play didn't fit D'Antoni's "vision"...and so Pringles alienated him.


Everywhere except Dallas, NO, Lakers. Basically his last 3 teams. At least the Lakers kept him around, NO just told him to stay away.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:14 pm    Post subject:

kray28_ wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I would throw Kaman in as well, he has always been a malcontent.


If he is, he doesn't really have a reputation as one. He's been fine on plenty of other teams prior to this. We could have really used his help if we were serious about contending at all this season.

It's plainly clear that his style of play didn't fit D'Antoni's "vision"...and so Pringles alienated him.


you mean because he can't play defense worth a damn. ditto with jordan hill. i agree with alienating those players.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:47 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
kray28_ wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I would throw Kaman in as well, he has always been a malcontent.


If he is, he doesn't really have a reputation as one. He's been fine on plenty of other teams prior to this. We could have really used his help if we were serious about contending at all this season.

It's plainly clear that his style of play didn't fit D'Antoni's "vision"...and so Pringles alienated him.


you mean because he can't play defense worth a damn. ditto with jordan hill. i agree with alienating those players.


They aren't the greatest defenders in the world, but on this team, they are actually two of the more effective defensive players, and their presence helps make the rest of the team more effective defensively. They also do this really cool thing called rebounding.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject:

MDA's Phoenix offense, at its peak, was averaging 112 possesions per game--10+ more than these Lakers are. The Lakers are actually averaging a significantly slower pace under MDA (~101) than they were from 2003-2008, when they hovered around 109.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:02 pm    Post subject:

kray28_ wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
kray28_ wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I would throw Kaman in as well, he has always been a malcontent.


If he is, he doesn't really have a reputation as one. He's been fine on plenty of other teams prior to this. We could have really used his help if we were serious about contending at all this season.

It's plainly clear that his style of play didn't fit D'Antoni's "vision"...and so Pringles alienated him.


you mean because he can't play defense worth a damn. ditto with jordan hill. i agree with alienating those players.


They aren't the greatest defenders in the world, but on this team, they are actually two of the more effective defensive players, and their presence helps make the rest of the team more effective defensively. They also do this really cool thing called rebounding.


that's just laughable. watching either of those two try to defend the pick and roll should come with parental discretion warnings. hill may actually have worse feet than kaman defensively. regardless if their rebounding led to wins i'm sure they'd play more. MDA is that desperate.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:14 pm    Post subject:

PauXXL wrote:
Let's get this straight once and for all. THE LAKERS DO NOT PRACTICE D, THEY WATCH FILM, THAT'S IT! I have a good friend of mine who recently had to interview Nick Young for an incident outside of basketball (you guys probably know what I mean). Young straight out told my friend they don't practice D. They watch film and talk during film session. So this BS that they actually practice D is nonsense. Stop putting out info that is incorrect.
^^STOP IT

http://www.businessinsider.com/kobe-bryant-had-a-stunning-quote-about-phil-jackson-never-preaching-defense-2012-11
Quote:
The biggest knock on new Los Angeles Lakers coach Mike D'Antoni throughout his coaching career is that his teams don't play any defense. D'Antoni preaches an uptempo offensive scheme that critics claim throws defensive ambition to the wayside.
Prior to last season, D'Antoni's teams never finished better than 23rd in the league in scoring defense. In those nine seasons, there was only one team that allowed less than 100 points per game.

But according to Kobe Bryant, that shouldn't be an issue. In an interview with USA Today's Sam Amick, Bryant said that defense never came first for Phil Jackson either:

"I mean Phil's been here, and -- to be honest with you -- we might have, in all the years I've been with Phil, (had) maybe three defensive drills the entire time. And I'm not understating it at all.
But his philosophy was always -- you guys need to figure it out on your own. And that's what made him a phenomenal coach, was that he was able to sit back and trust the process and trust players to communicate with each other."




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:57 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx: even at that time, they were only a 500 ballclub. And if you remember when Kobe came back, they started to go on a losing streak because he started to play iso and slow the tempo down. its just not going to work with MDA.


Losing streak? Didn't they lose 2 games, and then win?

And let's also remember that Kobe hadn't played in half a year. And as we all know, Kobe has always played horribly in preseasons. He takes a month or two to get back into rhythm.


It would take a little more than 'getting into rhythm' for Kobe to be able play in MDA's run and fun



Not really.


Don't think so? Kobe needs at least 4-7 seconds to survey the D and make his moves. So much for 7 seconds or less. Anyway I hope we don't get to see Kobe and MDA part 3.


The Lakers have never played 7 seconds or less.


7 seconds or less is MDA's principle/his perpetual goal. And the team does actually shoot in seven seconds or less quite often. Not all the time. But enough because the faster we shoot the more layups the other team gets, which is happening. And the layup drill works well against our small ball lineup. Effort on D is also not there, but you'll blame the players for that, not the frantic tiring pace of the system or low incentive to lay it out for MDA.

Kobe plays his best when he can size up the defense, draw double and triple teams, play with cutters, and play with efficient post players. He'll hit the quick shot sometimes but his half court slower setup o is his strength. His style runs counter to run and gun. Watch, if MDA is still around next year Kobe will force a slower half court system himself like he did last year and/or MDA will be fired mid season. Either way we'll be humiliated by the Clipps and other solid teams and miss the playoff again. But hey, Jim Buss gets to save his 3 million bucks on coaching choices so its all good.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject:

No matter who the coach is, the offense is going to look the same as long as Kobe is around. He plays a lot of isolation and he's the main ball handler. He is going to dictate the pace. I don't recall MDA ever installing any offense anything like the 2005 Suns with Kobe or Melo on the court.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:40 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
kray28_ wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
kray28_ wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I would throw Kaman in as well, he has always been a malcontent.


If he is, he doesn't really have a reputation as one. He's been fine on plenty of other teams prior to this. We could have really used his help if we were serious about contending at all this season.

It's plainly clear that his style of play didn't fit D'Antoni's "vision"...and so Pringles alienated him.


you mean because he can't play defense worth a damn. ditto with jordan hill. i agree with alienating those players.


They aren't the greatest defenders in the world, but on this team, they are actually two of the more effective defensive players, and their presence helps make the rest of the team more effective defensively. They also do this really cool thing called rebounding.


that's just laughable. watching either of those two try to defend the pick and roll should come with parental discretion warnings. hill may actually have worse feet than kaman defensively. regardless if their rebounding led to wins i'm sure they'd play more. MDA is that desperate.


Yeah, and people keep saying D'Antoni stubbornly doesn't play them just because they don't fit his system. I guess they ignore that Sacre is the one that fits the stereotypical D'Antoni the system the LEAST.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:56 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
PauXXL wrote:
Let's get this straight once and for all. THE LAKERS DO NOT PRACTICE D, THEY WATCH FILM, THAT'S IT! I have a good friend of mine who recently had to interview Nick Young for an incident outside of basketball (you guys probably know what I mean). Young straight out told my friend they don't practice D. They watch film and talk during film session. So this BS that they actually practice D is nonsense. Stop putting out info that is incorrect.
^^STOP IT

http://www.businessinsider.com/kobe-bryant-had-a-stunning-quote-about-phil-jackson-never-preaching-defense-2012-11
Quote:
The biggest knock on new Los Angeles Lakers coach Mike D'Antoni throughout his coaching career is that his teams don't play any defense. D'Antoni preaches an uptempo offensive scheme that critics claim throws defensive ambition to the wayside.
Prior to last season, D'Antoni's teams never finished better than 23rd in the league in scoring defense. In those nine seasons, there was only one team that allowed less than 100 points per game.

But according to Kobe Bryant, that shouldn't be an issue. In an interview with USA Today's Sam Amick, Bryant said that defense never came first for Phil Jackson either:

"I mean Phil's been here, and -- to be honest with you -- we might have, in all the years I've been with Phil, (had) maybe three defensive drills the entire time. And I'm not understating it at all.
But his philosophy was always -- you guys need to figure it out on your own. And that's what made him a phenomenal coach, was that he was able to sit back and trust the process and trust players to communicate with each other."




We've heard stories about Phil not teaching defense from Kobe, Gary and Rick before. D'Antoni just doesn't know how to coach.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:52 am    Post subject:

Posty and pivot they don't practice D. Put that in your thick head. I dont give a damn what they did with Phil. They don't practice D now. PERIOD. Can't you telll? Or does some one have to explain to you giving up 110 points per game is lousy D?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:24 am    Post subject:

Phil's greatest defense was his offense, he knew how to control the pace of each game which took away the opponents best weapons. MDA plays the same way every game, he exhausts his players to the point where they can't give the effort defensively, and gives the advantage to faster more athletic teams. Anybody that doesn't see this is blind. Watching the Lakers is like watching a useless track meet where players run around with no order or purpose but to try and shoot more shots than the opponent.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:28 am    Post subject:

Phil didn't teach defense in practice on a week to week basis. However he fully expected the players he put out there to form a defensive chemistry. More importantly he always put forth his most balanced lineup.

Did he start Odom or Bynum? He went for Bynum. Why? Defense. While Odom was the better closing defender and better fit for the O, Phil knew what Bynum meant for the Lakers D. Keep Pau out of FT and don't let PG's get a layup drill. That was the goal - primarily focus on D.

Did he start Kwame Brown? Yes. He knew Kwame's O sucked out loud. He saw him fumble 1000 passes. He knew that it would mean a lot of bad O possessions. But he believed in Kwame's post D, Kwame's ability to keep players off the glass. That's why he wanted Kwame in and Caron Butler out. He saw the balance in a Kwame/Odom/Kobe team vs a Odom/Caron/Kobe team. We almost beat a much, much better Suns team with that far less talented team.

The aspects of the game Phil knows about, D'Antoni discards as irrelevant or seems to ignore. Phil's genius is that while he focuses on Tri and all that, the goals are about forming team chemistry that translate to more talking on D and being in sync. His lineups were always balanced. No gimmick crap.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:52 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Phil didn't teach defense in practice on a week to week basis. However he fully expected the players he put out there to form a defensive chemistry. More importantly he always put forth his most balanced lineup.

Did he start Odom or Bynum? He went for Bynum. Why? Defense. While Odom was the better closing defender and better fit for the O, Phil knew what Bynum meant for the Lakers D. Keep Pau out of FT and don't let PG's get a layup drill. That was the goal - primarily focus on D.

Did he start Kwame Brown? Yes. He knew Kwame's O sucked out loud. He saw him fumble 1000 passes. He knew that it would mean a lot of bad O possessions. But he believed in Kwame's post D, Kwame's ability to keep players off the glass. That's why he wanted Kwame in and Caron Butler out. He saw the balance in a Kwame/Odom/Kobe team vs a Odom/Caron/Kobe team. We almost beat a much, much better Suns team with that far less talented team.

The aspects of the game Phil knows about, D'Antoni discards as irrelevant or seems to ignore. Phil's genius is that while he focuses on Tri and all that, the goals are about forming team chemistry that translate to more talking on D and being in sync. His lineups were always balanced. No gimmick crap.


One of your more spot on posts in a long time.

Lesson of the day: Pace is critical, and is one of the key levers of the game that you can control. By methodically slowing the pace, Phil was able to steal three games from the Suns in 1996.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
24 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Lakers have never played 7 seconds or less.


The lakers are 2nd in the league in PACE.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/paceFactor

Take a look at our team stats. When you have a team like this, Pace is key.
If you are the worse team on the floor, create less possessions. That way the other (better) team has less opportunities to exert their superiority.

If MDA slowed our team's pace and did everything else the same I would like him twice as much.


Worse teams tend to want to up the pace to create more of a ragged up and down game where they can minimize the talent advantage of the better team. You slow the pace if you play better at a slower pace, or if it creates difficulty for your opponent.


That works if you are a bad team with an above average point guard. We haven't had a healthy point guard all year. We're a bad team with size. Pace should be slower.

I loved Nash, Blake, farmar, and Marshall to death but our pace shouldn't be faster than the timberwolves (Rubio), magic (jameer Nelson), celtics (rondo), cavs (Irving), pistons (Jennings), nuggets (Lawson). Those are bad teams that should push the ball like you were saying.

This lakers roster with age, size, and injuries all year at the playmaking position shouldn't be 2nd in the league in pace


All a slow pace does is give a huge advantage to the team with better talent and skill.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx: even at that time, they were only a 500 ballclub. And if you remember when Kobe came back, they started to go on a losing streak because he started to play iso and slow the tempo down. its just not going to work with MDA.


Losing streak? Didn't they lose 2 games, and then win?

And let's also remember that Kobe hadn't played in half a year. And as we all know, Kobe has always played horribly in preseasons. He takes a month or two to get back into rhythm.


It would take a little more than 'getting into rhythm' for Kobe to be able play in MDA's run and fun



Not really.


Don't think so? Kobe needs at least 4-7 seconds to survey the D and make his moves. So much for 7 seconds or less. Anyway I hope we don't get to see Kobe and MDA part 3.


The Lakers have never played 7 seconds or less.


7 seconds or less is MDA's principle/his perpetual goal. And the team does actually shoot in seven seconds or less quite often. Not all the time. But enough because the faster we shoot the more layups the other team gets, which is happening. And the layup drill works well against our small ball lineup. Effort on D is also not there, but you'll blame the players for that, not the frantic tiring pace of the system or low incentive to lay it out for MDA.

Kobe plays his best when he can size up the defense, draw double and triple teams, play with cutters, and play with efficient post players. He'll hit the quick shot sometimes but his half court slower setup o is his strength. His style runs counter to run and gun. Watch, if MDA is still around next year Kobe will force a slower half court system himself like he did last year and/or MDA will be fired mid season. Either way we'll be humiliated by the Clipps and other solid teams and miss the playoff again. But hey, Jim Buss gets to save his 3 million bucks on coaching choices so its all good.


7 seconds or less is not the goal. Ball movement is the goal. If it moves well for 7 seconds or 17 seconds doesn't matter at all.

Your criticisms are largely based on misunderstanding the offense.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:24 am    Post subject:

PauXXL wrote:
Posty and pivot they don't practice D. Put that in your thick head. I dont give a damn what they did with Phil. They don't practice D now. PERIOD. Can't you telll? Or does some one have to explain to you giving up 110 points per game is lousy D?


Except that according to reports from people who actually have been ay practice; they do practice D.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:27 am    Post subject:

When the fans overwhelmingly blame the coach for the struggles of this team, all it tells me is that the future coach will be given no patience to turn things around or succeed. The lack of championship talent will be immediately blamed on him.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:51 am    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx: even at that time, they were only a 500 ballclub. And if you remember when Kobe came back, they started to go on a losing streak because he started to play iso and slow the tempo down. its just not going to work with MDA.


Losing streak? Didn't they lose 2 games, and then win?

And let's also remember that Kobe hadn't played in half a year. And as we all know, Kobe has always played horribly in preseasons. He takes a month or two to get back into rhythm.


It would take a little more than 'getting into rhythm' for Kobe to be able play in MDA's run and fun



Not really.


Don't think so? Kobe needs at least 4-7 seconds to survey the D and make his moves. So much for 7 seconds or less. Anyway I hope we don't get to see Kobe and MDA part 3.


The Lakers have never played 7 seconds or less.


7 seconds or less is MDA's principle/his perpetual goal. And the team does actually shoot in seven seconds or less quite often. Not all the time. But enough because the faster we shoot the more layups the other team gets, which is happening. And the layup drill works well against our small ball lineup. Effort on D is also not there, but you'll blame the players for that, not the frantic tiring pace of the system or low incentive to lay it out for MDA.

Kobe plays his best when he can size up the defense, draw double and triple teams, play with cutters, and play with efficient post players. He'll hit the quick shot sometimes but his half court slower setup o is his strength. His style runs counter to run and gun. Watch, if MDA is still around next year Kobe will force a slower half court system himself like he did last year and/or MDA will be fired mid season. Either way we'll be humiliated by the Clipps and other solid teams and miss the playoff again. But hey, Jim Buss gets to save his 3 million bucks on coaching choices so its all good.


7 seconds or less is not the goal. Ball movement is the goal. If it moves well for 7 seconds or 17 seconds doesn't matter at all.

Your criticisms are largely based on misunderstanding the offense.


I think I understand it just fine. when we get massively outrebounded while our best available bigs are sitting in the bench its easy to understand. When were last in defense and giving up massive amounts of uncontested layups, its also easy to understand. If you don't have the suns lineup 2.0 (circa 2005) the system is crap.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:44 pm    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Reflexx: even at that time, they were only a 500 ballclub. And if you remember when Kobe came back, they started to go on a losing streak because he started to play iso and slow the tempo down. its just not going to work with MDA.


Losing streak? Didn't they lose 2 games, and then win?

And let's also remember that Kobe hadn't played in half a year. And as we all know, Kobe has always played horribly in preseasons. He takes a month or two to get back into rhythm.


It would take a little more than 'getting into rhythm' for Kobe to be able play in MDA's run and fun



Not really.


Don't think so? Kobe needs at least 4-7 seconds to survey the D and make his moves. So much for 7 seconds or less. Anyway I hope we don't get to see Kobe and MDA part 3.


The Lakers have never played 7 seconds or less.


7 seconds or less is MDA's principle/his perpetual goal. And the team does actually shoot in seven seconds or less quite often. Not all the time. But enough because the faster we shoot the more layups the other team gets, which is happening. And the layup drill works well against our small ball lineup. Effort on D is also not there, but you'll blame the players for that, not the frantic tiring pace of the system or low incentive to lay it out for MDA.

Kobe plays his best when he can size up the defense, draw double and triple teams, play with cutters, and play with efficient post players. He'll hit the quick shot sometimes but his half court slower setup o is his strength. His style runs counter to run and gun. Watch, if MDA is still around next year Kobe will force a slower half court system himself like he did last year and/or MDA will be fired mid season. Either way we'll be humiliated by the Clipps and other solid teams and miss the playoff again. But hey, Jim Buss gets to save his 3 million bucks on coaching choices so its all good.


7 seconds or less is not the goal. Ball movement is the goal. If it moves well for 7 seconds or 17 seconds doesn't matter at all.

Your criticisms are largely based on misunderstanding the offense.


I think I understand it just fine. when we get massively outrebounded while our best available bigs are sitting in the bench its easy to understand. When were last in defense and giving up massive amounts of uncontested layups, its also easy to understand. If you don't have the suns lineup 2.0 (circa 2005) the system is crap.


Or when you have a crap lineup any system so crap.
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