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Iron Mamba
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 Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:56 am Post subject: Dynamic between Jim & Mitch - explained by John Ireland |
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Podcast Hour 1 of Mason & Ireland:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/losangeles/play?s=la
| Quote: | John Ireland:
"Everybody in the Buss family, none of them have a blue blood basketball pedigree.
"Jeanie; she's good at running the business, but basketball operation is not her area of expertise."
"Jim, he is learning basketball on a teaching ground, learning from Bill Sharman, Phil Jackson, from Mitch, from his dad."
"The Lakers need Mitch. If Mitch had gotten away, then Jim by default would be running everything."
"The Dynamic between Jim and Mitch is: Jim wants Mitch to talk him out of things; Jim wants to argue with him. Jim is an Anti-Yes Man. Jim and Mitch get into really big fights that Mitch doesn't always win. But Mitch is crucial to the process."
"Mitch has learned under Dean Smith, learned under Jerry West. Mitch basically has got a Master's in basketball in decision making. He's been involved with Lakers basketball for over 30 years."
"This is a rebuild. Mitch has already done it, he see how this movie ends. 2005 the Lakers finished 34-48, but were back in the Finals after just 3 years." |
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pickleweed
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
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that scares me. the guy without the basketball phd, learning on the job as he intimates should NEVER be winning these arguments. there shouldnt be arguments. he should be learning from mitch like he supposedly did from the others.
and im not even a jim hater, but that scares the hell out of me....especially coming from ireland, whose relentless homer-ism probably meant that in a positive way.
Last edited by pickleweed on Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| pickleweed wrote: | that scares me. the guy without the basketball phd, learning on the job as he intimates should NEVER be winning these arguments. there shouldnt be arguments. he should be learning from mitch like he supposedly did from the others.
and im not even a jim hater, but that scares the hell out of me.... |
at least that's better than "my way or the highway" approach someone here like to portrait Jim to be |
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_#1_
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Posts: 4751
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Dynamic between Jim & Mitch - explained by John Ireland |
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| Iron Mamba wrote: | Podcast Hour 1 of Mason & Ireland:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/losangeles/play?s=la
| Quote: | John Ireland:
"Everybody in the Buss family, none of them have a blue blood basketball pedigree.
"Jeanie; she's good at running the business, but basketball operation is not her area of expertise."
"Jim, he is learning basketball on a teaching ground, learning from Bill Sharman, Phil Jackson, from Mitch, from his dad."
"The Lakers need Mitch. If Mitch had gotten away, then Jim by default would be running everything."
"The Dynamic between Jim and Mitch is: Jim wants Mitch to talk him out of things; Jim wants to argue with him. Jim is an Anti-Yes Man. Jim and Mitch get into really big fights that Mitch doesn't always win. But Mitch is crucial to the process."
"Mitch has learned under Dean Smith, learned under Jerry West. Mitch basically has got a Master's in basketball in decision making. He's been involved with Lakers basketball for over 30 years."
"This is a rebuild. Mitch has already done it, he see how this movie ends. 2005 the Lakers finished 34-48, but were back in the Finals after just 3 years." |
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"No, Chaz cannot be the new GM"
"No, now get off of that window ledge and come in here, D'Antoni wasn't that bad of an idea"
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"No you can't take a bottle of sleeping pills and then wake up in two years when we have Kevin Durant" |
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KobeRe-Loaded
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Lakers are lucky to have Mitch. You must be doing something right to be GM and get an extension.
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| pickleweed wrote: | that scares me. the guy without the basketball phd, learning on the job as he intimates should NEVER be winning these arguments. there shouldnt be arguments. he should be learning from mitch like he supposedly did from the others.
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BennyLava
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: |
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If anyone thinks that the owner or executive management has all the answers, they live in a fantasy world.
Almost no successful CEO ever makes a decision without someone on his or her staff doing all the leg work. And the best CEOs always prefer to make a choice, not a decision, which is why they value people who can talk them out of choices, so the choice they make ends up being the best decision. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Dynamic between Jim & Mitch - explained by John Ireland |
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| Quote: |
"This is a rebuild. Mitch has already done it, he see how this movie ends. 2005 the Lakers finished 34-48, but were back in the Finals after just 3 years." |
Some key things that he glossed over:
1. Kobe still had plenty of Game left in him back then and not nearly as much now.
2. They didn't drop below the Salary Cap to do the rebuild back then, so different dynamics are involved this time.
3. A trade similar to the deal for Pau isn't easily duplicated.
4. Teams are operating under a different CBA.
5. The team is in a poor position in regards to available draft picks.
I realize he is a Company Man and he needs to put a positive spin on things when possible. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| pickleweed wrote: | that scares me. the guy without the basketball phd, learning on the job as he intimates should NEVER be winning these arguments. there shouldnt be arguments. he should be learning from mitch like he supposedly did from the others.
and im not even a jim hater, but that scares the hell out of me....especially coming from ireland, whose relentless homer-ism probably meant that in a positive way. |
OH BOY. not true at all.
doc buss one a few arguments early on as well. beat out the "PROS". the pros are not always right. guys like mitch are a bit conservative by nature. So you need your owner/basketball roster guy to push you to do things you would not normally do if you had a completely hands off owner.
the best combination is if you have an owner that has a good mind and a feel for the game(jim does..he proved it with the drew pickup and what he turned drew into(allstar after 2 bad knee issues)...he proved it again after trying to go get cp3 and then dwight then when that fell thru he got nash(that was jim who brought up nash.)
its true there are people on LG right now that have day jobs. but have watched enough basketball in their lives and have paid enough attention to detail when it comes to the lakers moves and non moves to the point where they too could be in the lakers FO and do a solid job. if mitch has their back.
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Dynamic between Jim & Mitch - explained by John Ireland |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | Quote: |
"This is a rebuild. Mitch has already done it, he see how this movie ends. 2005 the Lakers finished 34-48, but were back in the Finals after just 3 years." |
Some key things that he glossed over:
1. Kobe still had plenty of Game left in him back then and not nearly as much now.
2. They didn't drop below the Salary Cap to do the rebuild back then, so different dynamics are involved this time.
3. A trade similar to the deal for Pau isn't easily duplicated.
4. Teams are operating under a different CBA.
5. The team is in a poor position in regards to available draft picks.
I realize he is a Company Man and he needs to put a positive spin on things when possible. |
it still doesnt change what he said. MITCH has done this before. that was the point. and no negative spin you attempt to put on that will stop that from being true.
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salami
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Dynamic between Jim & Mitch - explained by John Ireland |
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| Iron Mamba wrote: | Podcast Hour 1 of Mason & Ireland:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/losangeles/play?s=la
| Quote: | John Ireland:
"Everybody in the Buss family, none of them have a blue blood basketball pedigree.
"Jeanie; she's good at running the business, but basketball operation is not her area of expertise."
"Jim, he is learning basketball on a teaching ground, learning from Bill Sharman, Phil Jackson, from Mitch, from his dad."
"The Lakers need Mitch. If Mitch had gotten away, then Jim by default would be running everything."
"The Dynamic between Jim and Mitch is: Jim wants Mitch to talk him out of things; Jim wants to argue with him. Jim is an Anti-Yes Man. Jim and Mitch get into really big fights that Mitch doesn't always win. But Mitch is crucial to the process."
"Mitch has learned under Dean Smith, learned under Jerry West. Mitch basically has got a Master's in basketball in decision making. He's been involved with Lakers basketball for over 30 years."
"This is a rebuild. Mitch has already done it, he see how this movie ends. 2005 the Lakers finished 34-48, but were back in the Finals after just 3 years." |
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I would like to know more about the times Jim has overruled Mitch
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Nash Vegas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:49 am Post subject: |
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It should be the other way around.
It's Jim who should try to talk Mitch out of things. And if he can't, Mitch's decision stays.
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | It should be the other way around.
It's Jim who should try to talk Mitch out of things. And if he can't, Mitch's decision stays. |
it was never that way with doc buss either.
so why change that now?
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tlim
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like Jim is the "ideas guy". I'm pretty sure Mitch is a good ideas guy himself and has many more years of living it than Jim.
Let Mitch DO HIS DAMN JOB. Why is the dynamic different between Jerry and Jim? Jerry let Mitch and West DO THEIR DAMN JOBS and will only veto on really big events (Magic, etc.)
Kind of scary how Jim is really a little more than a fan excepts that his not fully vetted opinions are then executed. |
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K28
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| postandpivot wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | It should be the other way around.
It's Jim who should try to talk Mitch out of things. And if he can't, Mitch's decision stays. |
it was never that way with doc buss either.
so why change that now? |
Actually Dr. Buss stayed out of a lot of things...and let Jerry West run the front office. Who gets credit for getting Shaq and Kobe in two epic master strokes? West or Dr. Buss.
ODB knew when to get the (bleep) outta of the way and let West be the GM. |
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999
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| wow some of you folks scare me. if feel like if you had a chance to kill jimbo buss and get away with it you guys would do it. |
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Kobe>Lebron
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Dynamic between Jim & Mitch - explained by John Ireland |
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| salami wrote: | | Iron Mamba wrote: | Podcast Hour 1 of Mason & Ireland:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/losangeles/play?s=la
| Quote: | John Ireland:
"Everybody in the Buss family, none of them have a blue blood basketball pedigree.
"Jeanie; she's good at running the business, but basketball operation is not her area of expertise."
"Jim, he is learning basketball on a teaching ground, learning from Bill Sharman, Phil Jackson, from Mitch, from his dad."
"The Lakers need Mitch. If Mitch had gotten away, then Jim by default would be running everything."
"The Dynamic between Jim and Mitch is: Jim wants Mitch to talk him out of things; Jim wants to argue with him. Jim is an Anti-Yes Man. Jim and Mitch get into really big fights that Mitch doesn't always win. But Mitch is crucial to the process."
"Mitch has learned under Dean Smith, learned under Jerry West. Mitch basically has got a Master's in basketball in decision making. He's been involved with Lakers basketball for over 30 years."
"This is a rebuild. Mitch has already done it, he see how this movie ends. 2005 the Lakers finished 34-48, but were back in the Finals after just 3 years." |
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I would like to know more about the times Jim has overruled Mitch |
My guess is MDA over Phil.
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Jim Buss (2013) |
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PROPHET
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Dynamic between Jim & Mitch - explained by John Ireland |
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| Kobe>Lebron wrote: | | salami wrote: | | Iron Mamba wrote: | Podcast Hour 1 of Mason & Ireland:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/losangeles/play?s=la
| Quote: | John Ireland:
"Everybody in the Buss family, none of them have a blue blood basketball pedigree.
"Jeanie; she's good at running the business, but basketball operation is not her area of expertise."
"Jim, he is learning basketball on a teaching ground, learning from Bill Sharman, Phil Jackson, from Mitch, from his dad."
"The Lakers need Mitch. If Mitch had gotten away, then Jim by default would be running everything."
"The Dynamic between Jim and Mitch is: Jim wants Mitch to talk him out of things; Jim wants to argue with him. Jim is an Anti-Yes Man. Jim and Mitch get into really big fights that Mitch doesn't always win. But Mitch is crucial to the process."
"Mitch has learned under Dean Smith, learned under Jerry West. Mitch basically has got a Master's in basketball in decision making. He's been involved with Lakers basketball for over 30 years."
"This is a rebuild. Mitch has already done it, he see how this movie ends. 2005 the Lakers finished 34-48, but were back in the Finals after just 3 years." |
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I would like to know more about the times Jim has overruled Mitch |
My guess is MDA over Phil. |
Bynum over Sean May... |
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Kobe>Lebron
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Dynamic between Jim & Mitch - explained by John Ireland |
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| PROPHET wrote: | | Kobe>Lebron wrote: | | salami wrote: | | Iron Mamba wrote: | Podcast Hour 1 of Mason & Ireland:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/losangeles/play?s=la
| Quote: | John Ireland:
"Everybody in the Buss family, none of them have a blue blood basketball pedigree.
"Jeanie; she's good at running the business, but basketball operation is not her area of expertise."
"Jim, he is learning basketball on a teaching ground, learning from Bill Sharman, Phil Jackson, from Mitch, from his dad."
"The Lakers need Mitch. If Mitch had gotten away, then Jim by default would be running everything."
"The Dynamic between Jim and Mitch is: Jim wants Mitch to talk him out of things; Jim wants to argue with him. Jim is an Anti-Yes Man. Jim and Mitch get into really big fights that Mitch doesn't always win. But Mitch is crucial to the process."
"Mitch has learned under Dean Smith, learned under Jerry West. Mitch basically has got a Master's in basketball in decision making. He's been involved with Lakers basketball for over 30 years."
"This is a rebuild. Mitch has already done it, he see how this movie ends. 2005 the Lakers finished 34-48, but were back in the Finals after just 3 years." |
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I would like to know more about the times Jim has overruled Mitch |
My guess is MDA over Phil. |
Bynum over Sean May... |
Wasnt it Danny Granger?
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"I was laying myself on the line by saying, if this doesn't work in three to four years, if we're not back on the top then I will step down because that means I have failed,"
Jim Buss (2013) |
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Tark the Shark
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| No wonder Mitch look worn down sometimes. He spends his time arguing and talking the idiot out of stupid ideas. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| seems like a reasonable relationship, if what ireland is saying is accurate. debate is good. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Tark the Shark wrote: | | No wonder Mitch look worn down sometimes. He spends his time arguing and talking the idiot out of stupid ideas. |
it shouldn't be too much to ask to coherently explain why you feel a certain way. i have no doubt some orgs are filled from top to bottom with yes men. |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Tark the Shark wrote: | | No wonder Mitch look worn down sometimes. He spends his time arguing and talking the idiot out of stupid ideas. |
Sounds like Cyrus Beene from Scandal.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Dynamic between Jim & Mitch - explained by John Ireland |
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| PROPHET wrote: | | Kobe>Lebron wrote: | | salami wrote: | | Iron Mamba wrote: | Podcast Hour 1 of Mason & Ireland:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/losangeles/play?s=la
| Quote: | John Ireland:
"Everybody in the Buss family, none of them have a blue blood basketball pedigree.
"Jeanie; she's good at running the business, but basketball operation is not her area of expertise."
"Jim, he is learning basketball on a teaching ground, learning from Bill Sharman, Phil Jackson, from Mitch, from his dad."
"The Lakers need Mitch. If Mitch had gotten away, then Jim by default would be running everything."
"The Dynamic between Jim and Mitch is: Jim wants Mitch to talk him out of things; Jim wants to argue with him. Jim is an Anti-Yes Man. Jim and Mitch get into really big fights that Mitch doesn't always win. But Mitch is crucial to the process."
"Mitch has learned under Dean Smith, learned under Jerry West. Mitch basically has got a Master's in basketball in decision making. He's been involved with Lakers basketball for over 30 years."
"This is a rebuild. Mitch has already done it, he see how this movie ends. 2005 the Lakers finished 34-48, but were back in the Finals after just 3 years." |
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I would like to know more about the times Jim has overruled Mitch |
My guess is MDA over Phil. |
Bynum over Sean May... |
Jim also pushed for Nash while Mitch never thought it would even be possible. |
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Tark the Shark
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Tark the Shark wrote: | | No wonder Mitch look worn down sometimes. He spends his time arguing and talking the idiot out of stupid ideas. |
it shouldn't be too much to ask to coherently explain why you feel a certain way. i have no doubt some orgs are filled from top to bottom with yes men. |
I just feel Mitch has to expend a lot of energy debating with Jim.
An example would be the Kobe extension. That's a stupid move from a GM's perspective. Extending an aging, injured superstar at mid-season to continue to allow him to be the highest paid player in the league. I don't want to hear all the crap about loyalty and rewarding Kobe. That move completely ruled out any chance of getting Lebron even if the chance was only 1%. Lebron is not coming here for $15M if Kobe is getting $22M.
Taking Lebron out of it, it's still a stupid move. By doing that, the Lakers set back the rebuild process, which they now seem to be acknowledging it is, by overpaying to keep their aging, injured superstar. You don't tie up that much money to make an old, injured guy a cornerstone of your franchise during a rebuild. That's an irrational, emotion decision that Jeanie would make and why she's not on the basketball ops side of the business. Jim was stupid enough to allow it as the head of basketball. |
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