Pacquiao vs Bradley 2
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
Gameplan wrote:
Floyd is to scared to fight Manny still. Floyd still fighting cans. I don't even know the next opponent is, never heard of him. Enough with the nonsense, both guys should sign a 50/50 deal to fight after Floyd beats this can.



When he fought Shane, Shane was rated the number one 147er after crushing Margarito. He fights Floyd and now Shane is considered old and a can. He fights the best 154er in the world in Canelo after People was begging him to fight Canelo. After he shuts him out, Alvarez is considered too young and a can.

May not like his tactics but anyone getting a 40.8 million dollar check for 40 minutes of work must be doing something right.


You can't argue with that. He played this hellavu smart!! Just don't ask me to put him in my Greatest fighters of all time list. I don't care if he finishes underfeated, like 24 say, I'm giving his career an asterisk. No compelling fight to speak of, truly no nemesis in the ring. People like Shane Mosley or Paul The Punisher Williams who were great welterweights could've easily fought in their primes but never happened. I know Williams skills aren't nearly up to the level of Mayweathers but he was big guy and would put pressure on Mayweather from the word go and he wouldn't have the reach and size advantage like he does in most of his fights. Thought Floyd ducked him because Williams could've knocked him out. He waited until Mosley got old then stepped in the ring. Young Shane had speed and power. Even though his skills are A+ I just have a hard time placing him in that, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Robinson, Hagler, Muhammad Ali etc. category for lack of compelling fights. Had times to fight some good competition in their prime but chose not to. Gets an A+ for being a smart businessman because he's definitely laughing all the way to the bank. Not with my dollar though .
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:55 pm    Post subject:

I have a ton of respect for Floyd, but if you are the ultimate competitor and think you are so much better than him (and I think he is), and you hear everyone talking about Manny this, Manny that...You should think, "F this, I want to fight this guy as soon as possible, and kick his ass."
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject:

leor_77 wrote:
I have a ton of respect for Floyd, but if you are the ultimate competitor and think you are so much better than him (and I think he is), and you hear everyone talking about Manny this, Manny that...You should think, "F this, I want to fight this guy as soon as possible, and kick his ass."

I don't think what people say bothers Floyd. As long as he can command 40 million a fight he's going to pick his opponents with the utmost care.

IMM Floyd thinks he can beat Manny but has reservations. His 0 is more important than his legacy at this point in time.

Put yourself in his place, as a fighter, not a fan. What would you do?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:18 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
I have a ton of respect for Floyd, but if you are the ultimate competitor and think you are so much better than him (and I think he is), and you hear everyone talking about Manny this, Manny that...You should think, "F this, I want to fight this guy as soon as possible, and kick his ass."

I don't think what people say bothers Floyd. As long as he can command 40 million a fight he's going to pick his opponents with the utmost care.

IMM Floyd thinks he can beat Manny but has reservations. His 0 is more important than his legacy at this point in time.

Put yourself in his place, as a fighter, not a fan. What would you do?



Thanks for being an honest Floyd fan.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
I have a ton of respect for Floyd, but if you are the ultimate competitor and think you are so much better than him (and I think he is), and you hear everyone talking about Manny this, Manny that...You should think, "F this, I want to fight this guy as soon as possible, and kick his ass."

I don't think what people say bothers Floyd. As long as he can command 40 million a fight he's going to pick his opponents with the utmost care.

IMM Floyd thinks he can beat Manny but has reservations. His 0 is more important than his legacy at this point in time.

Put yourself in his place, as a fighter, not a fan. What would you do?



Thanks for being an honest Floyd fan.

I'm a Manny fan too. I want to see the fight as much as anyone. I don't think it's going to happen.

I also think Floyd would beat Manny.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:27 am    Post subject:

I like them both as well.. for different reasons.

Floyd is showing us what's wrong with boxing and exploiting it all at the same time. He's not making it better.. he's benefiting off of it. And who's to say that its wrong? He's finally got the big hand that can control the house.. why not milk it? Floyd's 24/7's and All Access are the best. He can sell a fight like no one else. He'll keep his 0 for as long as he can. Manny probably represents the biggest current challenge to that 0.. a lefty that is quick and hits hard. Remember.. its not just floyd's 0..he's never been knocked down before either.

I'm thinking that the Bradley fight gave floyd more confidence though. Bradley is quick and made Manny miss a lot… more that I've seen Manny miss in a while. Floyd's defense is a thing of beauty. But its set up for right handers to miss.

It's hard to not like Manny. He's always smiling, pushes hard in fights, and came from a third world country. He applies pressure, comes forward and fights whoever they put in front of him. He's like the anti floyd in that sense.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
I have a ton of respect for Floyd, but if you are the ultimate competitor and think you are so much better than him (and I think he is), and you hear everyone talking about Manny this, Manny that...You should think, "F this, I want to fight this guy as soon as possible, and kick his ass."

I don't think what people say bothers Floyd. As long as he can command 40 million a fight he's going to pick his opponents with the utmost care.

IMM Floyd thinks he can beat Manny but has reservations. His 0 is more important than his legacy at this point in time.

Put yourself in his place, as a fighter, not a fan. What would you do?


I've been watching boxing for over 30 years and I'm glad the fighters of yesterday didnt think that way or we would have missed some of the greatest fights in history. I guess Leonard wouldn't have fought Duran, hearns wouldn't have fought Leonard , Foreman wouldn't have fought Ali. As much as I didn't like Oscar delahoya he fought all the top fighters of his generation . Hell Larry Holmes was that close to Marcianos record. He could have fought a couple of bums retired undefeated and rode into the sunset but he fought the best out there. But like you said when you can get paid without fighting the best more power to you
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:09 am    Post subject:

AJLakerFan wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Gameplan wrote:
Floyd is to scared to fight Manny still. Floyd still fighting cans. I don't even know the next opponent is, never heard of him. Enough with the nonsense, both guys should sign a 50/50 deal to fight after Floyd beats this can.



When he fought Shane, Shane was rated the number one 147er after crushing Margarito. He fights Floyd and now Shane is considered old and a can. He fights the best 154er in the world in Canelo after People was begging him to fight Canelo. After he shuts him out, Alvarez is considered too young and a can.

May not like his tactics but anyone getting a 40.8 million dollar check for 40 minutes of work must be doing something right.


You can't argue with that. He played this hellavu smart!! Just don't ask me to put him in my Greatest fighters of all time list. I don't care if he finishes underfeated, like 24 say, I'm giving his career an asterisk. No compelling fight to speak of, truly no nemesis in the ring. People like Shane Mosley or Paul The Punisher Williams who were great welterweights could've easily fought in their primes but never happened. I know Williams skills aren't nearly up to the level of Mayweathers but he was big guy and would put pressure on Mayweather from the word go and he wouldn't have the reach and size advantage like he does in most of his fights. Thought Floyd ducked him because Williams could've knocked him out. He waited until Mosley got old then stepped in the ring. Young Shane had speed and power. Even though his skills are A+ I just have a hard time placing him in that, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Robinson, Hagler, Muhammad Ali etc. category for lack of compelling fights. Had times to fight some good competition in their prime but chose not to. Gets an A+ for being a smart businessman because he's definitely laughing all the way to the bank. Not with my dollar though .



Gameplan said he hasnt even heard of "the guy" guy who is fighting floyd next. I'm not sure what to say to that - all it makes me think is that he is regurgitating what he has heard from other pacman fights and he himself knows very little about boxing.

I've said it before - its not like manny is out there fighting all these great fighters. He faught Cotto, Mosley, Marquez.. all of which floyd himself faught. I'm not sure where people derive their logic from.. but its apparent that you are biased.


Also - from a business standpoint, if i'm making $40 mill a fight and this guy who barely makes half of that fight asks me to go 50/50 on a purse with him, you bet your a$$ im going to say NO on the spot. It's a business... at the end of the day, why should i give money to a guy that also shot me down at one point when i was trying to make a fight?

People dont look at this stuff.. all they do is see how flashy floyd is, hate em for it, and start jabbering about how he 'ducks' fighters.

Manny ducked marquez for years, he was in his prime and a 39 year old marquez put em to sleep. Thats a fact, take it to the bank. There is a #1 P4P and its floyd, even if it bothers you that much.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:11 am    Post subject:

Thugnomoe wrote:
I like them both as well.. for different reasons.

Floyd is showing us what's wrong with boxing and exploiting it all at the same time. He's not making it better.. he's benefiting off of it. And who's to say that its wrong? He's finally got the big hand that can control the house.. why not milk it? Floyd's 24/7's and All Access are the best. He can sell a fight like no one else. He'll keep his 0 for as long as he can. Manny probably represents the biggest current challenge to that 0.. a lefty that is quick and hits hard. Remember.. its not just floyd's 0..he's never been knocked down before either.

I'm thinking that the Bradley fight gave floyd more confidence though. Bradley is quick and made Manny miss a lot… more that I've seen Manny miss in a while. Floyd's defense is a thing of beauty. But its set up for right handers to miss.
It's hard to not like Manny. He's always smiling, pushes hard in fights, and came from a third world country. He applies pressure, comes forward and fights whoever they put in front of him. He's like the anti floyd in that sense.



thats because he rarely fights fighters that fast.

Then again, its floyd who ducks all the good guys.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:55 am    Post subject:

marga86 wrote:
AJLakerFan wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Gameplan wrote:
Floyd is to scared to fight Manny still. Floyd still fighting cans. I don't even know the next opponent is, never heard of him. Enough with the nonsense, both guys should sign a 50/50 deal to fight after Floyd beats this can.



When he fought Shane, Shane was rated the number one 147er after crushing Margarito. He fights Floyd and now Shane is considered old and a can. He fights the best 154er in the world in Canelo after People was begging him to fight Canelo. After he shuts him out, Alvarez is considered too young and a can.

May not like his tactics but anyone getting a 40.8 million dollar check for 40 minutes of work must be doing something right.


You can't argue with that. He played this hellavu smart!! Just don't ask me to put him in my Greatest fighters of all time list. I don't care if he finishes underfeated, like 24 say, I'm giving his career an asterisk. No compelling fight to speak of, truly no nemesis in the ring. People like Shane Mosley or Paul The Punisher Williams who were great welterweights could've easily fought in their primes but never happened. I know Williams skills aren't nearly up to the level of Mayweathers but he was big guy and would put pressure on Mayweather from the word go and he wouldn't have the reach and size advantage like he does in most of his fights. Thought Floyd ducked him because Williams could've knocked him out. He waited until Mosley got old then stepped in the ring. Young Shane had speed and power. Even though his skills are A+ I just have a hard time placing him in that, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Robinson, Hagler, Muhammad Ali etc. category for lack of compelling fights. Had times to fight some good competition in their prime but chose not to. Gets an A+ for being a smart businessman because he's definitely laughing all the way to the bank. Not with my dollar though .



Gameplan said he hasnt even heard of "the guy" guy who is fighting floyd next. I'm not sure what to say to that - all it makes me think is that he is regurgitating what he has heard from other pacman fights and he himself knows very little about boxing.

I've said it before - its not like manny is out there fighting all these great fighters. He faught Cotto, Mosley, Marquez.. all of which floyd himself faught. I'm not sure where people derive their logic from.. but its apparent that you are biased.


Also - from a business standpoint, if i'm making $40 mill a fight and this guy who barely makes half of that fight asks me to go 50/50 on a purse with him, you bet your a$$ im going to say NO on the spot. It's a business... at the end of the day, why should i give money to a guy that also shot me down at one point when i was trying to make a fight?

People dont look at this stuff.. all they do is see how flashy floyd is, hate em for it, and start jabbering about how he 'ducks' fighters.

Manny ducked marquez for years, he was in his prime and a 39 year old marquez put em to sleep. Thats a fact, take it to the bank. There is a #1 P4P and its floyd, even if it bothers you that much.


I think even pacqiiao fans would even sat floyd is pound for pound number one. That's not even a question. What most people say is Manny the most competitive and financial lucrative fight out there. And for whatever reason it hasn't happened. It hasn't happened because of a 50/50 split because Manny has said he would be willing to take 60/40
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:59 am    Post subject:

when did Manny duck JMM? he's fought him 4 times.

you're preaching to the choir buddy.. Floyd's a great fighter and a great businessman. It's just not as good for the fans because we want to see the best fight each other.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:28 am    Post subject:

marga86 wrote:
AJLakerFan wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Gameplan wrote:
Floyd is to scared to fight Manny still. Floyd still fighting cans. I don't even know the next opponent is, never heard of him. Enough with the nonsense, both guys should sign a 50/50 deal to fight after Floyd beats this can.



When he fought Shane, Shane was rated the number one 147er after crushing Margarito. He fights Floyd and now Shane is considered old and a can. He fights the best 154er in the world in Canelo after People was begging him to fight Canelo. After he shuts him out, Alvarez is considered too young and a can.

May not like his tactics but anyone getting a 40.8 million dollar check for 40 minutes of work must be doing something right.


You can't argue with that. He played this hellavu smart!! Just don't ask me to put him in my Greatest fighters of all time list. I don't care if he finishes underfeated, like 24 say, I'm giving his career an asterisk. No compelling fight to speak of, truly no nemesis in the ring. People like Shane Mosley or Paul The Punisher Williams who were great welterweights could've easily fought in their primes but never happened. I know Williams skills aren't nearly up to the level of Mayweathers but he was big guy and would put pressure on Mayweather from the word go and he wouldn't have the reach and size advantage like he does in most of his fights. Thought Floyd ducked him because Williams could've knocked him out. He waited until Mosley got old then stepped in the ring. Young Shane had speed and power. Even though his skills are A+ I just have a hard time placing him in that, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Robinson, Hagler, Muhammad Ali etc. category for lack of compelling fights. Had times to fight some good competition in their prime but chose not to. Gets an A+ for being a smart businessman because he's definitely laughing all the way to the bank. Not with my dollar though .



Gameplan said he hasnt even heard of "the guy" guy who is fighting floyd next. I'm not sure what to say to that - all it makes me think is that he is regurgitating what he has heard from other pacman fights and he himself knows very little about boxing.

I've said it before - its not like manny is out there fighting all these great fighters. He faught Cotto, Mosley, Marquez.. all of which floyd himself faught. I'm not sure where people derive their logic from.. but its apparent that you are biased.


Also - from a business standpoint, if i'm making $40 mill a fight and this guy who barely makes half of that fight asks me to go 50/50 on a purse with him, you bet your a$$ im going to say NO on the spot. It's a business... at the end of the day, why should i give money to a guy that also shot me down at one point when i was trying to make a fight?

People dont look at this stuff.. all they do is see how flashy floyd is, hate em for it, and start jabbering about how he 'ducks' fighters.

Manny ducked marquez for years, he was in his prime and a 39 year old marquez put em to sleep. Thats a fact, take it to the bank. There is a #1 P4P and its floyd, even if it bothers you that much.


Manny was in his prime a year ago , that's a good one. Manny is 35 years old. The only person seemed to be bothered is you. I could care less. I want to be entertained when I see boxers fight, if you consider the way Floyd fights entertaining, more power to you, I frankly think it's boring. Manny ducked Marquez? They first fought at featherweight 10 years ago , when you can still consider both in their primes and went on to have 4 fights. That's your definition of ducking ? He didn't make Marquez come up in weight to fight and on top of that, still didn't make the weight himself like Floyd did . Oh, that was a fair fight. That was a good KO by Marquez in the last fight, Manny winning the fight at that time got careless, stepped on Manny's foot as he done repeatedly in all the fights and punch so Manny couldn't move out of the way. So what happened to Floyd fighting a Paul the Punisher Williams or Shane Mosely in their primes? I'll wait for your answer. Never fought anyone in their primes that you can consider a great fighter always before and most of the time after their primes. Great business man though. You can put him at the top of your all time greatest fight list, I'm not.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject:

Thugnomoe wrote:
when did Manny duck JMM? he's fought him 4 times.

you're preaching to the choir buddy.. Floyd's a great fighter and a great businessman. It's just not as good for the fans because we want to see the best fight each other.


He fought him twice.

After marquez asked for a 3rd manny said "no one wants to see that fight"

He waited until 2011 to give him a 3rd fight. It's well documented in mexican media. I'm not sure it would make it onto english media since marquez isnt as big of a pull.


What i bolded, why do people single floyd out as the "reason" for why this fight is not happening?

Everyone forgets that manny is unwilling to part with Bob Arum, and he knows how much Arum and Floyd hate doing business with each other. Thats probably the biggest bump to get over, and its not within floyd's controll. Yea i guess he can swallow his pride and do business with Arum? But why give Bob Arum the pay day of his life if he hates em that much?

Sometimes i just find it funny how floyd gets the heat for it.. when in reality, if manny stopped referencing bob arum everytime they asked em about a fight, manned up, and left top rank, he'd pocket $50mill+
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:52 am    Post subject:

AJLakerFan wrote:
marga86 wrote:
AJLakerFan wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Gameplan wrote:
Floyd is to scared to fight Manny still. Floyd still fighting cans. I don't even know the next opponent is, never heard of him. Enough with the nonsense, both guys should sign a 50/50 deal to fight after Floyd beats this can.



When he fought Shane, Shane was rated the number one 147er after crushing Margarito. He fights Floyd and now Shane is considered old and a can. He fights the best 154er in the world in Canelo after People was begging him to fight Canelo. After he shuts him out, Alvarez is considered too young and a can.

May not like his tactics but anyone getting a 40.8 million dollar check for 40 minutes of work must be doing something right.


You can't argue with that. He played this hellavu smart!! Just don't ask me to put him in my Greatest fighters of all time list. I don't care if he finishes underfeated, like 24 say, I'm giving his career an asterisk. No compelling fight to speak of, truly no nemesis in the ring. People like Shane Mosley or Paul The Punisher Williams who were great welterweights could've easily fought in their primes but never happened. I know Williams skills aren't nearly up to the level of Mayweathers but he was big guy and would put pressure on Mayweather from the word go and he wouldn't have the reach and size advantage like he does in most of his fights. Thought Floyd ducked him because Williams could've knocked him out. He waited until Mosley got old then stepped in the ring. Young Shane had speed and power. Even though his skills are A+ I just have a hard time placing him in that, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Robinson, Hagler, Muhammad Ali etc. category for lack of compelling fights. Had times to fight some good competition in their prime but chose not to. Gets an A+ for being a smart businessman because he's definitely laughing all the way to the bank. Not with my dollar though .



Gameplan said he hasnt even heard of "the guy" guy who is fighting floyd next. I'm not sure what to say to that - all it makes me think is that he is regurgitating what he has heard from other pacman fights and he himself knows very little about boxing.

I've said it before - its not like manny is out there fighting all these great fighters. He faught Cotto, Mosley, Marquez.. all of which floyd himself faught. I'm not sure where people derive their logic from.. but its apparent that you are biased.


Also - from a business standpoint, if i'm making $40 mill a fight and this guy who barely makes half of that fight asks me to go 50/50 on a purse with him, you bet your a$$ im going to say NO on the spot. It's a business... at the end of the day, why should i give money to a guy that also shot me down at one point when i was trying to make a fight?

People dont look at this stuff.. all they do is see how flashy floyd is, hate em for it, and start jabbering about how he 'ducks' fighters.

Manny ducked marquez for years, he was in his prime and a 39 year old marquez put em to sleep. Thats a fact, take it to the bank. There is a #1 P4P and its floyd, even if it bothers you that much.


Manny was in his prime a year ago , that's a good one. Manny is 35 years old. The only person seemed to be bothered is you. I could care less. I want to be entertained when I see boxers fight, if you consider the way Floyd fights entertaining, more power to you, I frankly think it's boring. Manny ducked Marquez? They first fought at featherweight 10 years ago , when you can still consider both in their primes and went on to have 4 fights. That's your definition of ducking ? He didn't make Marquez come up in weight to fight and on top of that, still didn't make the weight himself like Floyd did . Oh, that was a fair fight. That was a good KO by Marquez in the last fight, Manny winning the fight at that time got careless, stepped on Manny's foot as he done repeatedly in all the fights and punch so Manny couldn't move out of the way. So what happened to Floyd fighting a Paul the Punisher Williams or Shane Mosely in their primes? I'll wait for your answer. Never fought anyone in their primes that you can consider a great fighter always before and most of the time after their primes. Great business man though. You can put him at the top of your all time greatest fight list, I'm not.


It took almost 4 years for him to give marquez a 3rd match. Like i said, its well documented in mexican media that manny refused to fight marquez. How is that not ducking him? He waited until marquez turned 38 to give him a rematch? lol. Ok yea 35 year old manny IS NOT in his prime, but 38 year old marquez is? Nice.

Manny's hardest fights were vs barrera, morales, and marquez. After that, he hasnt really fought any great boxers himself.

Floyd doesn't need manny, people fail to see that. Manny needs Floyd.

The fight was in the past after the first wave of negotiations, manny never brought it up.. everyone had made peace with the fact that it wasnt gonna happen. All ofa sudden, the IRS comes knocking on the door and manny "wants" to fight mayweather?

Dunno about you, but reverse the names in this situation and you would have a lot of skeptics.

And im sure Maidana is a nobody as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject:

AJLakerFan wrote:
marga86 wrote:
AJLakerFan wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Gameplan wrote:
Floyd is to scared to fight Manny still. Floyd still fighting cans. I don't even know the next opponent is, never heard of him. Enough with the nonsense, both guys should sign a 50/50 deal to fight after Floyd beats this can.



When he fought Shane, Shane was rated the number one 147er after crushing Margarito. He fights Floyd and now Shane is considered old and a can. He fights the best 154er in the world in Canelo after People was begging him to fight Canelo. After he shuts him out, Alvarez is considered too young and a can.

May not like his tactics but anyone getting a 40.8 million dollar check for 40 minutes of work must be doing something right.


You can't argue with that. He played this hellavu smart!! Just don't ask me to put him in my Greatest fighters of all time list. I don't care if he finishes underfeated, like 24 say, I'm giving his career an asterisk. No compelling fight to speak of, truly no nemesis in the ring. People like Shane Mosley or Paul The Punisher Williams who were great welterweights could've easily fought in their primes but never happened. I know Williams skills aren't nearly up to the level of Mayweathers but he was big guy and would put pressure on Mayweather from the word go and he wouldn't have the reach and size advantage like he does in most of his fights. Thought Floyd ducked him because Williams could've knocked him out. He waited until Mosley got old then stepped in the ring. Young Shane had speed and power. Even though his skills are A+ I just have a hard time placing him in that, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Robinson, Hagler, Muhammad Ali etc. category for lack of compelling fights. Had times to fight some good competition in their prime but chose not to. Gets an A+ for being a smart businessman because he's definitely laughing all the way to the bank. Not with my dollar though .



Gameplan said he hasnt even heard of "the guy" guy who is fighting floyd next. I'm not sure what to say to that - all it makes me think is that he is regurgitating what he has heard from other pacman fights and he himself knows very little about boxing.

I've said it before - its not like manny is out there fighting all these great fighters. He faught Cotto, Mosley, Marquez.. all of which floyd himself faught. I'm not sure where people derive their logic from.. but its apparent that you are biased.


Also - from a business standpoint, if i'm making $40 mill a fight and this guy who barely makes half of that fight asks me to go 50/50 on a purse with him, you bet your a$$ im going to say NO on the spot. It's a business... at the end of the day, why should i give money to a guy that also shot me down at one point when i was trying to make a fight?

People dont look at this stuff.. all they do is see how flashy floyd is, hate em for it, and start jabbering about how he 'ducks' fighters.

Manny ducked marquez for years, he was in his prime and a 39 year old marquez put em to sleep. Thats a fact, take it to the bank. There is a #1 P4P and its floyd, even if it bothers you that much.


Manny was in his prime a year ago , that's a good one. Manny is 35 years old. The only person seemed to be bothered is you. I could care less. I want to be entertained when I see boxers fight, if you consider the way Floyd fights entertaining, more power to you, I frankly think it's boring. Manny ducked Marquez? They first fought at featherweight 10 years ago , when you can still consider both in their primes and went on to have 4 fights. That's your definition of ducking ? He didn't make Marquez come up in weight to fight and on top of that, still didn't make the weight himself like Floyd did . Oh, that was a fair fight. That was a good KO by Marquez in the last fight, Manny winning the fight at that time got careless, stepped on Manny's foot as he done repeatedly in all the fights and punch so Manny couldn't move out of the way. So what happened to Floyd fighting a Paul the Punisher Williams or Shane Mosely in their primes? I'll wait for your answer. Never fought anyone in their primes that you can consider a great fighter always before and most of the time after their primes. Great business man though. You can put him at the top of your all time greatest fight list, I'm not.


lmao.

thats a common occurance when you fight southpaw vs orthodox.

Sounds like a bitter manny fan making excuses. Gets stepped on 4 fights ina row and cant figure out how to avoid it.

Now that marquez is 41, manny should fight em again.. he might actually win decisively now.
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Thugnomoe
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject:

mexican media… LOL.. Manny never ducked him.. he just didn't want to fight him because he beat him twice already. the first fight was judges error -forgetting to count the 2nd knock down and the 2nd Manny won again.

I like JMM as a fighter.. he just needs to do more. I mean.. he clearly got out boxed by Bradley.

If Manny "ducked" JMM back then.. then JMM is ducking Manny now.. because they wanted an immediate rematch.. but JMM didn't want it… and probably won't want it. though it'd be a huge fight and great for the fans to see.

You have to blame Floyd for the fight not happening for a myriad of reasons. drug tests, day of the fight tests, Bob Arum.. etc. Floyd just comes up with reason after reason.

Bob would make the fight.. Floyd doesn't want to.. so who's fault is that?

That said.. if I were floyd.. I wouldn't fight Manny. Keep my 0.. keep my golden ticket. Which is what that 0 is. Its not about legacy.. its about business. Floyd is a huge PPV draw because people want to see him lose that 0.

Floyd is changing the face of boxing from HBO/Top Rank to Showtime and Goldenboy.. Mayweather promotions.. that 0 gives him the power. If i were him..I'd milk that as long as I could.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:50 am    Post subject:

marga86 wrote:

It took almost 4 years for him to give marquez a 3rd match. Like i said, its well documented in mexican media that manny refused to fight marquez. How is that not ducking him?


Right, the Mexican media. The most unbiased source when it comes to JMM and Manny Pacquiao.

After the 2nd fight, Manny wanted to move up in weight and fight other champions to increase his stature in the sport. I know those were close fights, but you have no obligation for a rematch after you won the previous fight and the first fight was a draw that the judge admitted was scored incorrectly, which should have been a win for Pacquiao.

This is the period when Manny hit his peak in both skill and popularity (wins over ODLH, Hatton). JMM was not as big a draw as those guys so an immediate 3rd match was not in his best interests. It's not ducking because you choose not to set up a 3rd match immediately.

Quote:
Manny's hardest fights were vs barrera, morales, and marquez. After that, he hasnt really fought any great boxers himself.


The interest in fighting guys like Clottey, Cotto, Margarito, and Mosley was that they were bigger than Manny. Manny spent the bulk of his career at Super Feather and under so when he beat those guys, it was a big deal because of the perceived size difference.

Quote:
Floyd doesn't need manny, people fail to see that. Manny needs Floyd.


These guys don't "need" anything money wise. That's a given. They both can go out there and fight nobodies and make a gazillion dollars.

We the fans just want to see the top guys fight each other. And the most obvious fight to make for five years now has been Floyd and Manny. I mean, blatantly obvious. They were the two best pound for pound, fighting many common opponents and both beating them, and had contrasting offensive and defensive styles. It doesn't take a genius to know why everyone wants to see them fight.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:


I'd like to add that exclusivity in MMA is killing the sport... it should be promoted like boxing...

sad, because of how MMA fights are run, we never saw Fedor versus some of his generation's big names.


I couldn't disagree with this more. Boxing promotion is ridiculous. As a fan, I don't really care about how much the athletes are making just that the fights are being made. And for the most part, the UFC is making the fights I want to see.

Nothing is killing the sport of MMA, but it will never be as popular as one of the major pro sports or boxing because of seemingly how violent it is to the general public. The peak is probably now and the past couple of years. This is it.

And we did see Fedor fight his best contemporaries. Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, Big Nog, and CroCop were the best heavyweights in his era. I would say the only other worthy heavyweights in that time period he wasn't able to face were Randy Couture and Josh Barnett. Couture was jumping in between 205 and HW during that time and he was scheduled to fight Barnett, but Josh tested positive for banned substance and the fight was scrapped. Mir was still recovering from his motorcycle accident and his early comeback fights were bad (getting dominated by Vera). There was nobody in the UFC he needed to fight. Their heavyweight division in the mid 2000's was trash aside from Arlovski and Sylvia.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:
marga86 wrote:

It took almost 4 years for him to give marquez a 3rd match. Like i said, its well documented in mexican media that manny refused to fight marquez. How is that not ducking him?


Right, the Mexican media. The most unbiased source when it comes to JMM and Manny Pacquiao.

After the 2nd fight, Manny wanted to move up in weight and fight other champions to increase his stature in the sport. I know those were close fights, but you have no obligation for a rematch after you won the previous fight and the first fight was a draw that the judge admitted was scored incorrectly, which should have been a win for Pacquiao.

This is the period when Manny hit his peak in both skill and popularity (wins over ODLH, Hatton). JMM was not as big a draw as those guys so an immediate 3rd match was not in his best interests. It's not ducking because you choose not to set up a 3rd match immediately.

Quote:
Manny's hardest fights were vs barrera, morales, and marquez. After that, he hasnt really fought any great boxers himself.


The interest in fighting guys like Clottey, Cotto, Margarito, and Mosley was that they were bigger than Manny. Manny spent the bulk of his career at Super Feather and under so when he beat those guys, it was a big deal because of the perceived size difference.

Quote:
Floyd doesn't need manny, people fail to see that. Manny needs Floyd.


These guys don't "need" anything money wise. That's a given. They both can go out there and fight nobodies and make a gazillion dollars.

We the fans just want to see the top guys fight each other. And the most obvious fight to make for five years now has been Floyd and Manny. I mean, blatantly obvious. They were the two best pound for pound, fighting many common opponents and both beating them, and had contrasting offensive and defensive styles. It doesn't take a genius to know why everyone wants to see them fight.


If i was floyd i wouldnt fight manny, not to keep my 0, but to not give arum money. It's really that simple.

People underestimate the power of pride. Neither Arum nor Floyd want to swallow their pride. With that said, it is well documented that Manny had his own requests as well. People keep bringing up the drug tests, but other fighters that faught floyd did it with no problem - what makes manny special?

I agree the fight should happen, its stupid that it's not happening.. One thing is to want something, another is to understand why its not happening.

I see all this finger pointing at floyd, when i dont think it's completely his fault - he does obviously has something to do with it, but i think it doesnt have anything to do with "being afraid" of manny. That's just my personal opinion though.

and the JMM thing was just an example of how you can sway things (ie, manny ducking JMM) based on ones opinion. Manny has goot rapport with fans (he is a likeable guy), as such, people tend to take his side a bit more. Just bugs me when i see irrational/biased things (aka AJ saying JMM stepped on manny's foot) being tossed around just because you hate a guy.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:35 pm    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:
marga86 wrote:

It took almost 4 years for him to give marquez a 3rd match. Like i said, its well documented in mexican media that manny refused to fight marquez. How is that not ducking him?


Right, the Mexican media. The most unbiased source when it comes to JMM and Manny Pacquiao.

After the 2nd fight, Manny wanted to move up in weight and fight other champions to increase his stature in the sport. I know those were close fights, but you have no obligation for a rematch after you won the previous fight and the first fight was a draw that the judge admitted was scored incorrectly, which should have been a win for Pacquiao.

This is the period when Manny hit his peak in both skill and popularity (wins over ODLH, Hatton). JMM was not as big a draw as those guys so an immediate 3rd match was not in his best interests. It's not ducking because you choose not to set up a 3rd match immediately.

Quote:
Manny's hardest fights were vs barrera, morales, and marquez. After that, he hasnt really fought any great boxers himself.


The interest in fighting guys like Clottey, Cotto, Margarito, and Mosley was that they were bigger than Manny. Manny spent the bulk of his career at Super Feather and under so when he beat those guys, it was a big deal because of the perceived size difference.

Quote:
Floyd doesn't need manny, people fail to see that. Manny needs Floyd.


These guys don't "need" anything money wise. That's a given. They both can go out there and fight nobodies and make a gazillion dollars.

We the fans just want to see the top guys fight each other. And the most obvious fight to make for five years now has been Floyd and Manny. I mean, blatantly obvious. They were the two best pound for pound, fighting many common opponents and both beating them, and had contrasting offensive and defensive styles. It doesn't take a genius to know why everyone wants to see them fight.


Thanks Thugnomoe and Triumph, saved me the time to rebut marga86 argument !
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:41 pm    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:
Drifts wrote:


I'd like to add that exclusivity in MMA is killing the sport... it should be promoted like boxing...

sad, because of how MMA fights are run, we never saw Fedor versus some of his generation's big names.


I couldn't disagree with this more. Boxing promotion is ridiculous. As a fan, I don't really care about how much the athletes are making just that the fights are being made. And for the most part, the UFC is making the fights I want to see.

Nothing is killing the sport of MMA, but it will never be as popular as one of the major pro sports or boxing because of seemingly how violent it is to the general public. The peak is probably now and the past couple of years. This is it.

And we did see Fedor fight his best contemporaries. Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, Big Nog, and CroCop were the best heavyweights in his era. I would say the only other worthy heavyweights in that time period he wasn't able to face were Randy Couture and Josh Barnett. Couture was jumping in between 205 and HW during that time and he was scheduled to fight Barnett, but Josh tested positive for banned substance and the fight was scrapped. Mir was still recovering from his motorcycle accident and his early comeback fights were bad (getting dominated by Vera). There was nobody in the UFC he needed to fight. Their heavyweight division in the mid 2000's was trash aside from Arlovski and Sylvia.


I would have to agree with you on this Triumph, I'm actually became more of a MMA sports fan than boxing right now. I'm just sick and tired of all these fighters not facing each other over some BS. If this person is in your weight class and a top fighter, FIGHT! Sick of that BS. MMA more than not have the top fighters fighting for the belt or fighting to get in line for the title. Most of the undercards are entertaining as well so I'm good with MMA.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:50 pm    Post subject:

AJLakerFan wrote:
Triumph wrote:
Drifts wrote:


I'd like to add that exclusivity in MMA is killing the sport... it should be promoted like boxing...

sad, because of how MMA fights are run, we never saw Fedor versus some of his generation's big names.


I couldn't disagree with this more. Boxing promotion is ridiculous. As a fan, I don't really care about how much the athletes are making just that the fights are being made. And for the most part, the UFC is making the fights I want to see.

Nothing is killing the sport of MMA, but it will never be as popular as one of the major pro sports or boxing because of seemingly how violent it is to the general public. The peak is probably now and the past couple of years. This is it.

And we did see Fedor fight his best contemporaries. Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, Big Nog, and CroCop were the best heavyweights in his era. I would say the only other worthy heavyweights in that time period he wasn't able to face were Randy Couture and Josh Barnett. Couture was jumping in between 205 and HW during that time and he was scheduled to fight Barnett, but Josh tested positive for banned substance and the fight was scrapped. Mir was still recovering from his motorcycle accident and his early comeback fights were bad (getting dominated by Vera). There was nobody in the UFC he needed to fight. Their heavyweight division in the mid 2000's was trash aside from Arlovski and Sylvia.


I would have to agree with you on this Triumph, I'm actually became more of a MMA sports fan than boxing right now. I'm just sick and tired of all these fighters not facing each other over some BS. If this person is in your weight class and a top fighter, FIGHT! Sick of that BS. MMA more than not have the top fighters fighting for the belt or fighting to get in line for the title. Most of the undercards are entertaining as well so I'm good with MMA.


Yeah, I'm astounded he's suggesting the way MMA is run is preventing good fights. That's juts about the furthest thing from the truth. The Fedor situation was an aberration and NOT par for the course. By and large, every fan desired matchup comes to fruition. Why? Because love them or hate them, the UFC's ironclad hold makes it so.

Compared to boxing? Just about the opposite and the entire alphabet soup ecosystem that's made it so has already been discussed ad nauseam. A myriad of fractured interests pulling in different directions...not exactly the ideal environment for dream bouts.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:00 pm    Post subject:

marga86 wrote:
Triumph wrote:
marga86 wrote:

It took almost 4 years for him to give marquez a 3rd match. Like i said, its well documented in mexican media that manny refused to fight marquez. How is that not ducking him?


Right, the Mexican media. The most unbiased source when it comes to JMM and Manny Pacquiao.

After the 2nd fight, Manny wanted to move up in weight and fight other champions to increase his stature in the sport. I know those were close fights, but you have no obligation for a rematch after you won the previous fight and the first fight was a draw that the judge admitted was scored incorrectly, which should have been a win for Pacquiao.

This is the period when Manny hit his peak in both skill and popularity (wins over ODLH, Hatton). JMM was not as big a draw as those guys so an immediate 3rd match was not in his best interests. It's not ducking because you choose not to set up a 3rd match immediately.

Quote:
Manny's hardest fights were vs barrera, morales, and marquez. After that, he hasnt really fought any great boxers himself.


The interest in fighting guys like Clottey, Cotto, Margarito, and Mosley was that they were bigger than Manny. Manny spent the bulk of his career at Super Feather and under so when he beat those guys, it was a big deal because of the perceived size difference.

Quote:
Floyd doesn't need manny, people fail to see that. Manny needs Floyd.


These guys don't "need" anything money wise. That's a given. They both can go out there and fight nobodies and make a gazillion dollars.

We the fans just want to see the top guys fight each other. And the most obvious fight to make for five years now has been Floyd and Manny. I mean, blatantly obvious. They were the two best pound for pound, fighting many common opponents and both beating them, and had contrasting offensive and defensive styles. It doesn't take a genius to know why everyone wants to see them fight.


If i was floyd i wouldnt fight manny, not to keep my 0, but to not give arum money. It's really that simple.

People underestimate the power of pride. Neither Arum nor Floyd want to swallow their pride. With that said, it is well documented that Manny had his own requests as well. People keep bringing up the drug tests, but other fighters that faught floyd did it with no problem - what makes manny special?

I agree the fight should happen, its stupid that it's not happening.. One thing is to want something, another is to understand why its not happening.

I see all this finger pointing at floyd, when i dont think it's completely his fault - he does obviously has something to do with it, but i think it doesnt have anything to do with "being afraid" of manny. That's just my personal opinion though.

and the JMM thing was just an example of how you can sway things (ie, manny ducking JMM) based on ones opinion. Manny has goot rapport with fans (he is a likeable guy), as such, people tend to take his side a bit more. Just bugs me when i see irrational/biased things (aka AJ saying JMM stepped on manny's foot) being tossed around just because you hate a guy.


Who said I don't like JMM, he is a great fighter. I don't have anything against him, but if you watched the fights him and Manny had, it's no way a person steps on someones foot that damn many time. It was part of his strategy. It worked since Manny or Roach never complained until after the fact. That being said, they went on to have some of the best fights in boxing. Every fight was entertaining with alot of action. You only have to respect what they did in the ring. I'm still waiting to hear what's Floyd great fight against an opponent who was in their prime. You mentioned Maidana is an good fighter, not great, I hope your not trying to call him an all timer. He's not in that class. There is a longer list of opponents that were great that he NEVER fought in their prime. At this point and time, I don't care to see a Manny vs. Floyd fight ever. This should've happened 5 years ago and don't give me that they'll fight when both are old. There was no fight I wanted to see more than them two 5 years ago. It doesn't interest me anymore.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
AJLakerFan wrote:
Triumph wrote:
Drifts wrote:


I'd like to add that exclusivity in MMA is killing the sport... it should be promoted like boxing...

sad, because of how MMA fights are run, we never saw Fedor versus some of his generation's big names.


I couldn't disagree with this more. Boxing promotion is ridiculous. As a fan, I don't really care about how much the athletes are making just that the fights are being made. And for the most part, the UFC is making the fights I want to see.

Nothing is killing the sport of MMA, but it will never be as popular as one of the major pro sports or boxing because of seemingly how violent it is to the general public. The peak is probably now and the past couple of years. This is it.

And we did see Fedor fight his best contemporaries. Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, Big Nog, and CroCop were the best heavyweights in his era. I would say the only other worthy heavyweights in that time period he wasn't able to face were Randy Couture and Josh Barnett. Couture was jumping in between 205 and HW during that time and he was scheduled to fight Barnett, but Josh tested positive for banned substance and the fight was scrapped. Mir was still recovering from his motorcycle accident and his early comeback fights were bad (getting dominated by Vera). There was nobody in the UFC he needed to fight. Their heavyweight division in the mid 2000's was trash aside from Arlovski and Sylvia.


I would have to agree with you on this Triumph, I'm actually became more of a MMA sports fan than boxing right now. I'm just sick and tired of all these fighters not facing each other over some BS. If this person is in your weight class and a top fighter, FIGHT! Sick of that BS. MMA more than not have the top fighters fighting for the belt or fighting to get in line for the title. Most of the undercards are entertaining as well so I'm good with MMA.


Yeah, I'm astounded he's suggesting the way MMA is run is preventing good fights. That's juts about the furthest thing from the truth. The Fedor situation was an aberration and NOT par for the course. By and large, every fan desired matchup comes to fruition. Why? Because love them or hate them, the UFC's ironclad hold makes it so.

Compared to boxing? Just about the opposite and the entire alphabet soup ecosystem that's made it so has already been discussed ad nauseam. A myriad of fractured interests pulling in different directions...not exactly the ideal environment for dream bouts.


Yep, I have more fun at UFC fight parties than boxing nowadays. We be hollering through the whole card for the most part. Boxing well be lucky to get 2 fights with any action.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject:

WindyCityLakerFan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
I have a ton of respect for Floyd, but if you are the ultimate competitor and think you are so much better than him (and I think he is), and you hear everyone talking about Manny this, Manny that...You should think, "F this, I want to fight this guy as soon as possible, and kick his ass."

I don't think what people say bothers Floyd. As long as he can command 40 million a fight he's going to pick his opponents with the utmost care.

IMM Floyd thinks he can beat Manny but has reservations. His 0 is more important than his legacy at this point in time.

Put yourself in his place, as a fighter, not a fan. What would you do?


I've been watching boxing for over 30 years and I'm glad the fighters of yesterday didnt think that way or we would have missed some of the greatest fights in history. I guess Leonard wouldn't have fought Duran, hearns wouldn't have fought Leonard , Foreman wouldn't have fought Ali. As much as I didn't like Oscar delahoya he fought all the top fighters of his generation . Hell Larry Holmes was that close to Marcianos record. He could have fought a couple of bums retired undefeated and rode into the sunset but he fought the best out there. But like you said when you can get paid without fighting the best more power to you

I've been watching since the Marciano, Louis, 2 ton Tony Galento, Sugar Ray Robinson, Emile Griffith days. Fights were between the best of the best. Those are days gone by, never to return.

The game has changed. The gates, purses, PPV and PROMOTERS, have made a difference. I'm of the school, if the fighters were to take charge of their destinies we'd see better fights.

That's not to say with today's atmosphere, we'd see Floyd vs Manny. We would have back in the day, today, it's a toss up.
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