I have a ton of respect for Floyd, but if you are the ultimate competitor and think you are so much better than him (and I think he is), and you hear everyone talking about Manny this, Manny that...You should think, "F this, I want to fight this guy as soon as possible, and kick his ass."
I don't think what people say bothers Floyd. As long as he can command 40 million a fight he's going to pick his opponents with the utmost care.
IMM Floyd thinks he can beat Manny but has reservations. His 0 is more important than his legacy at this point in time.
Put yourself in his place, as a fighter, not a fan. What would you do?
I've been watching boxing for over 30 years and I'm glad the fighters of yesterday didnt think that way or we would have missed some of the greatest fights in history. I guess Leonard wouldn't have fought Duran, hearns wouldn't have fought Leonard , Foreman wouldn't have fought Ali. As much as I didn't like Oscar delahoya he fought all the top fighters of his generation . Hell Larry Holmes was that close to Marcianos record. He could have fought a couple of bums retired undefeated and rode into the sunset but he fought the best out there. But like you said when you can get paid without fighting the best more power to you
Your post is the main reason I don't love boxing like I use to. Back then, you can count on the best fighting the best, it was no if they crap, it was a foregone conclusion. I've always gave Oscar respect for what you've mentioned. He never ducked fighters that people perceived that was tough or even great, and did it IN THEIR PRIMES for the most part.
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 Posts: 3111 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject:
marga86 wrote:
If i was floyd i wouldnt fight manny, not to keep my 0, but to not give arum money. It's really that simple.
If you're a fan of Floyd's (which I'm assuming you are), doesn't that make you mad or at least disappointed that you won't get to see him fight Manny for such a petty reason that has nothing to do with the actual sport/competition itself?
And it annoys me to no end that everyone defends Floyd's refusal to fight Manny because "he doesn't need to" or because he's "the cash cow". Is he sharing the money with you guys or what? Why do you care about that?
Quote:
People underestimate the power of pride. Neither Arum nor Floyd want to swallow their pride. With that said, it is well documented that Manny had his own requests as well. People keep bringing up the drug tests, but other fighters that faught floyd did it with no problem - what makes manny specia
The enhanced drug testing request (that isn't required by the NSAC) was never made before that. It was Floyd's way of making Manny jump through hoops to fight him. By the way Manny eventually agreed to the testing.
But then Floyd wanted Manny to take a ridiculously small cut of the fight purse. Remember if this fight happened it was projected to be the biggest selling boxing PPV of all-time. That's because of the popularity of both fighters, not just Floyd. I think both sides are well within their right to make demands, but Floyd's demands for his cut of the purse were straight up roadblocks. He knew Manny wouldn't agree to those terms. It's obvious he never had any real intentions of making that fight happen.
I do think he was afraid of facing Manny during the run Manny had brutalizing ODLH, Hatton, Cotto, and Margarito. That's just my opinion though.
lol @ you guys thinking Manny would beat Mayweather.
Most people don't think Manny would beat Floyd. But Floyd ducked him anyways.
Mayweather can't beat Manny... until he decides to man up and actually fights and beats him.
in a war without a single battle, Manny has beaten Mayweather to a pulp in the psychological warfare... _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 15294 Location: Southern California
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:59 am Post subject:
AJLakerFan wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Gameplan wrote:
Floyd is to scared to fight Manny still. Floyd still fighting cans. I don't even know the next opponent is, never heard of him. Enough with the nonsense, both guys should sign a 50/50 deal to fight after Floyd beats this can.
When he fought Shane, Shane was rated the number one 147er after crushing Margarito. He fights Floyd and now Shane is considered old and a can. He fights the best 154er in the world in Canelo after People was begging him to fight Canelo. After he shuts him out, Alvarez is considered too young and a can.
May not like his tactics but anyone getting a 40.8 million dollar check for 40 minutes of work must be doing something right.
You can't argue with that. He played this hellavu smart!! Just don't ask me to put him in my Greatest fighters of all time list. I don't care if he finishes underfeated, like 24 say, I'm giving his career an asterisk. No compelling fight to speak of, truly no nemesis in the ring. People like Shane Mosley or Paul The Punisher Williams who were great welterweights could've easily fought in their primes but never happened. I know Williams skills aren't nearly up to the level of Mayweathers but he was big guy and would put pressure on Mayweather from the word go and he wouldn't have the reach and size advantage like he does in most of his fights. Thought Floyd ducked him because Williams could've knocked him out. He waited until Mosley got old then stepped in the ring. Young Shane had speed and power. Even though his skills are A+ I just have a hard time placing him in that, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Robinson, Hagler, Muhammad Ali etc. category for lack of compelling fights. Had times to fight some good competition in their prime but chose not to. Gets an A+ for being a smart businessman because he's definitely laughing all the way to the bank. Not with my dollar though .
I wouldn't put him as an all-time greatest fighter either. He could be in my top 20 all time. Possibly top 15 but I can't put him in the top ten. Just too stacked and I couldn't remove any of those great fighter from the past.
If i was floyd i wouldnt fight manny, not to keep my 0, but to not give arum money. It's really that simple.
If you're a fan of Floyd's (which I'm assuming you are), doesn't that make you mad or at least disappointed that you won't get to see him fight Manny for such a petty reason that has nothing to do with the actual sport/competition itself?
And it annoys me to no end that everyone defends Floyd's refusal to fight Manny because "he doesn't need to" or because he's "the cash cow". Is he sharing the money with you guys or what? Why do you care about that?
Quote:
People underestimate the power of pride. Neither Arum nor Floyd want to swallow their pride. With that said, it is well documented that Manny had his own requests as well. People keep bringing up the drug tests, but other fighters that faught floyd did it with no problem - what makes manny specia
The enhanced drug testing request (that isn't required by the NSAC) was never made before that. It was Floyd's way of making Manny jump through hoops to fight him. By the way Manny eventually agreed to the testing.
But then Floyd wanted Manny to take a ridiculously small cut of the fight purse. Remember if this fight happened it was projected to be the biggest selling boxing PPV of all-time. That's because of the popularity of both fighters, not just Floyd. I think both sides are well within their right to make demands, but Floyd's demands for his cut of the purse were straight up roadblocks. He knew Manny wouldn't agree to those terms. It's obvious he never had any real intentions of making that fight happen.
I do think he was afraid of facing Manny during the run Manny had brutalizing ODLH, Hatton, Cotto, and Margarito. That's just my opinion though.
I'm not a mayweather fan.
I like boxing in general. My favorite all time fight was JCC then JMM. I'm actually indifferent about manny vs floyd.. it's just very obvious to me that floyd would have dumped on manny in manny's prime (and i actually think manny is still pretty damn good).. and even today he could.
It doesnt annoy me in the least bit. Maybe if every time someone asked manny about floyd he wouldnt respond.. "ehhh, welllll... ehhh my promoter bob arum.. eh yea talk to him".
Right. My perception is that if you really want something, come out and say it. Canelo didnt hesitate ONE time to say, let me at em. I want floyd. Lets make it happen. If he was with arum, do you think that fight would of happened? He was with golden boy, and it happened.
There is no real right or wrong here, its just what you identify yourself with. I'm a CPA, so i'll usually lean towards who brings more value to the table. If i was in floyd's situation i'd do the EXACT SAME THING.
@AJ, if the foot thing doesnt bother you, why bring up?
Regardless who would win, Duckweather got his reputation for a reason. He never fights anyone who is in their prime and would be able to challenge him. They are either just passed or not there yet. The greatest fighters fight the best. Sugar Ray fought everyone and multiple times. All the greats fought the best. Duckweather wants to protect his 0 and make a lot of money, great, enjoy that. Because when he cant fight anymore he will go broke and probably end up in jail anyways. Just like his crack head family.
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 14660 Location: unfortunately not Los Angeles anymore
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:53 am Post subject:
marga86 wrote:
Triumph wrote:
marga86 wrote:
If i was floyd i wouldnt fight manny, not to keep my 0, but to not give arum money. It's really that simple.
If you're a fan of Floyd's (which I'm assuming you are), doesn't that make you mad or at least disappointed that you won't get to see him fight Manny for such a petty reason that has nothing to do with the actual sport/competition itself?
And it annoys me to no end that everyone defends Floyd's refusal to fight Manny because "he doesn't need to" or because he's "the cash cow". Is he sharing the money with you guys or what? Why do you care about that?
Quote:
People underestimate the power of pride. Neither Arum nor Floyd want to swallow their pride. With that said, it is well documented that Manny had his own requests as well. People keep bringing up the drug tests, but other fighters that faught floyd did it with no problem - what makes manny specia
The enhanced drug testing request (that isn't required by the NSAC) was never made before that. It was Floyd's way of making Manny jump through hoops to fight him. By the way Manny eventually agreed to the testing.
But then Floyd wanted Manny to take a ridiculously small cut of the fight purse. Remember if this fight happened it was projected to be the biggest selling boxing PPV of all-time. That's because of the popularity of both fighters, not just Floyd. I think both sides are well within their right to make demands, but Floyd's demands for his cut of the purse were straight up roadblocks. He knew Manny wouldn't agree to those terms. It's obvious he never had any real intentions of making that fight happen.
I do think he was afraid of facing Manny during the run Manny had brutalizing ODLH, Hatton, Cotto, and Margarito. That's just my opinion though.
I'm not a mayweather fan.
I like boxing in general. My favorite all time fight was JCC then JMM. I'm actually indifferent about manny vs floyd.. it's just very obvious to me that floyd would have dumped on manny in manny's prime (and i actually think manny is still pretty damn good).. and even today he could.
It doesnt annoy me in the least bit. Maybe if every time someone asked manny about floyd he wouldnt respond.. "ehhh, welllll... ehhh my promoter bob arum.. eh yea talk to him".
Right. My perception is that if you really want something, come out and say it. Canelo didnt hesitate ONE time to say, let me at em. I want floyd. Lets make it happen. If he was with arum, do you think that fight would of happened? He was with golden boy, and it happened.
There is no real right or wrong here, its just what you identify yourself with. I'm a CPA, so i'll usually lean towards who brings more value to the table. If i was in floyd's situation i'd do the EXACT SAME THING.
@AJ, if the foot thing doesnt bother you, why bring up?
do you know how many times Manny has asked to fight floyd? like a billion.
that's not even an argument.
If Manny is with another company..I still don't think the fight happens. Floyd will come up with another excuse.
I love Floyd.. but com'on.. already.. make this fight!
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:15 am Post subject:
Black Salt wrote:
Regardless who would win, Duckweather got his reputation for a reason. He never fights anyone who is in their prime and would be able to challenge him.
EXCEPT when he took on the baddest 130-pounder (Diego Corrales) that was in the game, in his prime and picked him apart until Chico's corner threw in the towel after knockdown #5.
Regardless who would win, Duckweather got his reputation for a reason. He never fights anyone who is in their prime and would be able to challenge him.
EXCEPT when he took on the baddest 130-pounder (Diego Corrales) that was in the game, in his prime and picked him apart until Chico's corner threw in the towel after knockdown #5.
Can't take that away from Floyd.
haha. 13 years ago? A boy was born and now has pubes in that span of time.
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject:
Black Salt wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Black Salt wrote:
Regardless who would win, Duckweather got his reputation for a reason. He never fights anyone who is in their prime and would be able to challenge him.
EXCEPT when he took on the baddest 130-pounder (Diego Corrales) that was in the game, in his prime and picked him apart until Chico's corner threw in the towel after knockdown #5.
Can't take that away from Floyd.
haha. 13 years ago? A boy was born and now has pubes in that span of time.
You're funny.
But, back to taking the subject seriously ...
Go back and watch that fight. There was no fighter as devastating in that weight class. I was a Floyd and Corrales fan but, I was seriously worried for Floyd. Chico was systematically walking down and walking through his opponents ... he had amazing heavy hands for that division. He was like a prime Arguello. No lie.
But, in their fight, you can see that LIKE ALL OF PBF's opponents, Diego's punch count was the lowest of his career (by a HUGE margin) and it just kept dropping round by round until he looked just exactly like Canelo did for all their fight. You're screaming the same thing: "Why don't you let your punches go instead of just standing there and getting pop shot???"
I think Floyd has a little something to do with that since that's what's been the norm his entire career.
I'm not saying Floyd is a warrior like Sugar Ray in terms of taking on all comers and being willing to take a shot to give one. But, my entire point was, 13 years ago or not, Floyd took took on the best, most dangerous fighter in his prime.
I'd love to have seen him hook up with Pacquaio 5 years ago but, hey, that's the route he chose and that's just boxing these days.
Imagine the mental mind games of swinging and missing.. Thats what drove ortiz crazy.
I remember how all the floyd haters at my house were like OMG ORTIZ WAS WINNING UNTIL HEADBUTT.. one of em actually stuck around after the fight to rewatch the rounds.. he realize how wrong he was. Ortiz's headbutt was probably out of desperation more than anything.
It's just the perception that people got in that fight.. "oh he is swining a lot.. he has floyd!!!" When you look at compu box, ortiz's numbers were actually pretty bad.
Floyd will NEVER take that fight and history will pretty much not care about his money or other accomplishments. He'll pretty much just be known as the guy who ducked Pacquiao.
49-0*
*ducked Pacquiao
Last edited by ChickenBeckerman on Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Regardless who would win, Duckweather got his reputation for a reason. He never fights anyone who is in their prime and would be able to challenge him.
EXCEPT when he took on the baddest 130-pounder (Diego Corrales) that was in the game, in his prime and picked him apart until Chico's corner threw in the towel after knockdown #5.
Can't take that away from Floyd.
You mean Diego Corrales who feet was slow as hell who would pose no threat to Mayweather's defensive style by closing the gap and getting off a barrage of punches? His defensive style was taylor made against Corrales. He had some quick hands in close range fighting but overall hand speed wasn't spectacular. He also caught Diego pre prime years age 23 by boxing standards. Try again ! The first fight with Corrales vs. Castillo was a thing of legends on how he came back in that 10th round!! A tough fighter with heart is how I describe Diego. Is there anybody else you can bring up in Floyd's fight history?
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67702 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject:
Floyd keeps telling you guys he's in the check cashing business. I want to see the fight and am perturbed by Floyd's reluctance to make it. I too understand why he doesn't, it's all about da Benjamin's.
You wannna to git at him hit him up on his twitter account. LINK _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
If i was floyd i wouldnt fight manny, not to keep my 0, but to not give arum money. It's really that simple.
If you're a fan of Floyd's (which I'm assuming you are), doesn't that make you mad or at least disappointed that you won't get to see him fight Manny for such a petty reason that has nothing to do with the actual sport/competition itself?
And it annoys me to no end that everyone defends Floyd's refusal to fight Manny because "he doesn't need to" or because he's "the cash cow". Is he sharing the money with you guys or what? Why do you care about that?
Quote:
People underestimate the power of pride. Neither Arum nor Floyd want to swallow their pride. With that said, it is well documented that Manny had his own requests as well. People keep bringing up the drug tests, but other fighters that faught floyd did it with no problem - what makes manny specia
The enhanced drug testing request (that isn't required by the NSAC) was never made before that. It was Floyd's way of making Manny jump through hoops to fight him. By the way Manny eventually agreed to the testing.
But then Floyd wanted Manny to take a ridiculously small cut of the fight purse. Remember if this fight happened it was projected to be the biggest selling boxing PPV of all-time. That's because of the popularity of both fighters, not just Floyd. I think both sides are well within their right to make demands, but Floyd's demands for his cut of the purse were straight up roadblocks. He knew Manny wouldn't agree to those terms. It's obvious he never had any real intentions of making that fight happen.
I do think he was afraid of facing Manny during the run Manny had brutalizing ODLH, Hatton, Cotto, and Margarito. That's just my opinion though.
I'm not a mayweather fan.
I like boxing in general. My favorite all time fight was JCC then JMM. I'm actually indifferent about manny vs floyd.. it's just very obvious to me that floyd would have dumped on manny in manny's prime (and i actually think manny is still pretty damn good).. and even today he could.
It doesnt annoy me in the least bit. Maybe if every time someone asked manny about floyd he wouldnt respond.. "ehhh, welllll... ehhh my promoter bob arum.. eh yea talk to him".
Right. My perception is that if you really want something, come out and say it. Canelo didnt hesitate ONE time to say, let me at em. I want floyd. Lets make it happen. If he was with arum, do you think that fight would of happened? He was with golden boy, and it happened.
There is no real right or wrong here, its just what you identify yourself with. I'm a CPA, so i'll usually lean towards who brings more value to the table. If i was in floyd's situation i'd do the EXACT SAME THING.
@AJ, if the foot thing doesnt bother you, why bring up?
Floyd will never be a true champion. He hands picks his fights for business interest only. He has chosen guys that have no speed. Name one fighter in the last 5 years that have speed and can move his feet. Delahoya comes to mind, but he was past his prime and wasn’t close to his peak level. Mosely is another who slowed down and was never near in his peak when he was fast with power. Floyd can box and out point the bigger slower guys with KO power, but let’s see him fight more guys with a different fighting style, instead of these stiffs. Floyd style is made for fighters who can’t move or don’t possess any hand speed. Floyd has had many great fighters in his career in his weight class that were in their prime, but he dodged them all and that is a paper champion. His career will have a black mark because he avoided fighting Pacqaiao years ago.
If i was floyd i wouldnt fight manny, not to keep my 0, but to not give arum money. It's really that simple.
If you're a fan of Floyd's (which I'm assuming you are), doesn't that make you mad or at least disappointed that you won't get to see him fight Manny for such a petty reason that has nothing to do with the actual sport/competition itself?
And it annoys me to no end that everyone defends Floyd's refusal to fight Manny because "he doesn't need to" or because he's "the cash cow". Is he sharing the money with you guys or what? Why do you care about that?
Quote:
People underestimate the power of pride. Neither Arum nor Floyd want to swallow their pride. With that said, it is well documented that Manny had his own requests as well. People keep bringing up the drug tests, but other fighters that faught floyd did it with no problem - what makes manny specia
The enhanced drug testing request (that isn't required by the NSAC) was never made before that. It was Floyd's way of making Manny jump through hoops to fight him. By the way Manny eventually agreed to the testing.
But then Floyd wanted Manny to take a ridiculously small cut of the fight purse. Remember if this fight happened it was projected to be the biggest selling boxing PPV of all-time. That's because of the popularity of both fighters, not just Floyd. I think both sides are well within their right to make demands, but Floyd's demands for his cut of the purse were straight up roadblocks. He knew Manny wouldn't agree to those terms. It's obvious he never had any real intentions of making that fight happen.
I do think he was afraid of facing Manny during the run Manny had brutalizing ODLH, Hatton, Cotto, and Margarito. That's just my opinion though.
I'm not a mayweather fan.
I like boxing in general. My favorite all time fight was JCC then JMM. I'm actually indifferent about manny vs floyd.. it's just very obvious to me that floyd would have dumped on manny in manny's prime (and i actually think manny is still pretty damn good).. and even today he could.
It doesnt annoy me in the least bit. Maybe if every time someone asked manny about floyd he wouldnt respond.. "ehhh, welllll... ehhh my promoter bob arum.. eh yea talk to him".
Right. My perception is that if you really want something, come out and say it. Canelo didnt hesitate ONE time to say, let me at em. I want floyd. Lets make it happen. If he was with arum, do you think that fight would of happened? He was with golden boy, and it happened.
There is no real right or wrong here, its just what you identify yourself with. I'm a CPA, so i'll usually lean towards who brings more value to the table. If i was in floyd's situation i'd do the EXACT SAME THING.
@AJ, if the foot thing doesnt bother you, why bring up?
Floyd will never be a true champion. He hands picks his fights for business interest only. He has chosen guys that have no speed. Name one fighter in the last 5 years that have speed and can move his feet. Delahoya comes to mind, but he was past his prime and wasn’t close to his peak level. Mosely is another who slowed down and was never near in his peak when he was fast with power. Floyd can box and out point the bigger slower guys with KO power, but let’s see him fight more guys with a different fighting style, instead of these stiffs. Floyd style is made for fighters who can’t move or don’t possess any hand speed. Floyd has had many great fighters in his career in his weight class that were in their prime, but he dodged them all and that is a paper champion. His career will have a black mark because he avoided fighting Pacqaiao years ago.
canelo.
i mean u are sittig here ripping floyd for it, why dont u name me one fighter manny has faced that has speed and can move his feet? you gonna tell me bradly? LOL.
I mean they are both guilty of almost the same thing to be honest.. the real problem is not each hand picking their opponents - aside from marquez - no one can bang with either manny nor floyd.
^not Manny's fault that there are literally NO fighters in his class that are even close to his speed & footwork, and the one that does wants absolutely nothing to do with him.
Last edited by ChickenBeckerman on Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19865 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:46 pm Post subject:
jodeke wrote:
Floyd keeps telling you guys he's in the check cashing business. I want to see the fight and am perturbed by Floyd's reluctance to make it. I too understand why he doesn't, it's all about da Benjamin's.
You wannna to git at him hit him up on his twitter account. LINK
You speculate on the reasons but this is irrevocably true: Mayweather does not want to fight Pacquiao. A probable guess would be that he's afraid that Pac will beat him, which makes him a coward.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject:
marga86 wrote:
Drifts wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
xxsicrokerxx wrote:
lol @ you guys thinking Manny would beat Mayweather.
Most people don't think Manny would beat Floyd. But Floyd ducked him anyways.
Mayweather can't beat Manny... until he decides to man up and actually fights and beats him.
in a war without a single battle, Manny has beaten Mayweather to a pulp in the psychological warfare...
Drifts, probably the biggest manny fan on LG.
Hey, if you can't rebut the argument, go after the source... _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
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Your post is the main reason I don't love boxing like I use to. Back then, you can count on the best fighting the best, it was no if they crap, it was a foregone conclusion. I've always gave Oscar respect for what you've mentioned. He never ducked fighters that people perceived that was tough or even great, and did it IN THEIR PRIMES for the most part.
