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magicdays Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2011 Posts: 1907
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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postandpivot wrote: | magicdays wrote: | All of these rationalizations to shoot down this posted article are rationalizations anyone can also conjure up regarding an alternative strategy--building around a free agent. The Lakers have plenty of examples of key acquisitions via free agency that worked for them. There are always plenty of counter-examples anyone can conjure up to lay claim to their side of the argument. However, anecdotes cannot deny the accumulated data. If one wants to argue against the data they present, then one needs to present a similarly large sample of counter data.
There are two aspects to tanking I do not care for:
1) The data that shows getting the savior draft pick rarely works.
2) The psychological problems that tanking presents to a team and how it changes their culture and expectations.
And btw, even if the Lakers did not intend to tank initially, it is clear to me that once the FO decided to ride out MDA--they were in full tank mode. |
and this is whats current. this isnt even showing the full year.
Quote: | Los Angeles Lakers Current Injury report
Kent Bazemore
will miss the remainder of the season Out to undergo right foot surgery
Kobe Bryant
will miss the remainder of the season Out left tibial plateau fracture
Pau Gasol
is expected to miss the remainder of the season Out vertigo
Xavier Henry
is expected to miss the remainder of the season Out to undergo left wrist surgery/right knee surgery
Chris Kaman is doubtful for Friday's game against Golden State Doubtful sore right calf
Steve Nash is expected to miss the remainder of the season Out nerve irritation in lower back/hamstrings |
i had to post this because i just cant get it laker fans. i just cant understand how you guys make a lot of logical points then all of the logic flies out of the window when you speak about why have been losing so many games.
Logic folks. how many injuries have we had this year?
Compare that to how many injuries every other team has had. not FAKE injuries to rest guys or to intentionally tank. but legit INJURIES?
now compare our injuries from this season to any other season in laker history. now show us where the injury frequency of this season is even close to the frequency of another laker season. i will go on a limb and say its not even close. i mean gary Vittie said it himself. and that was last year's injury bugged season. this season is worse then last year.
but some how , some way its MDA or the FO's fault. thats just insane to me.
the tank mode came in the moment the lakers realized they are out of the hunt for the playoffs and to make matters worse guys keep getting hurt. 2 guys back, 2 guys out, 1 guy back 1 guy out, 2 guys back, 2 guys out.
we have a dleague pg pulling major mins for us. what does that tell you? |
Apparently, you can't get it either even though it is right under your nose. Vitti has said it himself that this is like no other season ever. MDA's system speaks volumes about injuring all players, old and young. Even Laker fans could predict that eventually we would have injuries plaguing our players--the latex being Bazemore. A few injuries here and there is reasonable but when it strikes like an epidemic, there is a common underlying cause.
That's why its MDA. Of course, you disagree because its in your genes to defend him til the end but that is my explanation of why its MDA's fault. _________________ Ahhhh, those were the days...time for a new beginning! |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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There is a hypothetical question that I have been pondering for a while.
The scenario:
In Summer 2013, the Lakers are offered a trade of Pau out and several players in. The incoming players would have helped improve the W/L record this season, but there was an incoming player with a $5 million contract that didn't end until Summer 2015. If that player was actually up for a new contract in Summer 2014, he would be able to get $4 - 5 million at the most.
Mitch and Jim turned down the trade offer because they wanted to preserve as much Cap Space as possible for Summer 2014.
Would Mitch & Jim have been labeled as tankers since they declined the opportunity to win as many games as possible this season? |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | This strikes me as something of a strawman argument. Sure, one great player will not lift a team past mediocrity. To the extent that he is attacking that strawman, he's absolutely right.
However, the more nuanced position (which is not a strawman) is that it is far easier and faster to build around a superstar than to assemble a successful ensemble cast. The team that drafts Embiid or Wiggins has a potential franchise player, and they can build around him. True, Embiid or Wiggins could turn out to be the next Kyrie Irving or, heaven forbid, Greg Oden or Kwame Brown. Just the same, in the economic structure of the NBA, asset acquisition is difficult. Look how many years Morey spent swapping assets in Houston before he finally managed to assemble the pieces to make the Rockets a credible, albeit not powerful, contender.
Tanking for a top pick won't help if your front office is unable to capitalize on a successful pick. It won't be a cure all. But, at least with respect to the NBA, I think the author is overstating his case. |
Good points, but I think tanking as a strategy isn't something that has been very successful at winning titles. |
I would certainly agree with this generally speaking. However, I will say, that there is sort of, two ways to tank with one being more successful than the other.
The first way is to essentially make your team so bad, that you have a great shot at a top draft pick. The problem with this method is that even when you get your pick, you've made your team bad in the process and so you still have an uphill climb.
One method where tanking can be advantageous, is in a situation where you have good players, but you've gone through some serious injuries to them and rather than working to improve your situation, you let that season work for you by not rushing them back. This is what the Spurs did the year prior to drafting Duncan. IMO, what they did and say, what the 76ers are doing, aren't really the same thing.
I can't really say that what the Lakers did this season is anything like what the Spurs did because we didn't have that 'foundation' that was simply injured, we don't have any foundation at all.
But we also didn't, IMO, intentionally move players for the sole purpose of being a bad team.
I guess my point is that tanking CAN work for you, but it just depends on HOW you do it. |
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