Forbes: How The Lakers Got Lousy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
Apparently some fans here believe that Forbes is a great place for basketball analysis.



Did anyone say that?

How about hint or imply?

Tell us how you got to this conclusion.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:09 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
You all really want to take a shot at Forbes??? Very funny...







Here's the deal: This blog isn't from "Forbes" in terms of some pronouncement of the magazine. It's just a blog one guy wrote for Forbes.

And you know something: I've written for Forbes too.

So if you think this blog is the voice of "Forbes," then every post I write on LG is just as much the voice of Forbes
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999
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject:

Let's not forget that this team was one trade veto away from being one of the greatest teams ever assembled by buss
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:38 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Quote:
3. Nepotism and cronyism can take a toll.

Lakers owner Jerry Buss, who died in 2013, was the most successful owner in pro sports history, with 10 NBA championship rings and another six appearances in the finals.

But he botched his most important move: the team’s succession plan. He gave effective control to his enigmatic and unproven son, Jim.

Elite organizations don’t do that; so the minute the elder Buss did this, the Lakers effectively renounced their status as an elite organization.

Today, the Lakers are an odd tangle of family dynamics. Jerry’s daughter Jeanie now claims to be the key leader for the Lakers. Yet her claim that “I’m the boss now” has lent about as much assurance to fans as Al Haig’s legendary assertion that “I am in control here.”


A lot of fans didn't buy that either.


this... and what was she gonna do if jim f's up yet again? fire him? yeah "i am the boss".
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:41 pm    Post subject:

LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
Let's not forget that this team was one trade veto away from being one of the greatest teams ever assembled by buss


Kobe and Paul wouldn't have worked.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:32 pm    Post subject:

kray28_ wrote:
Lakers are a laughingstock in all corners.


What is it with all the people jumping off the bandwagon but refusing to actually get off the bandwagon? Its like the guy who breaks up with you but won't actually leave.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
Lakers are lousy because we are in a down cycle. It happens to every team, especially at the tail end of their star player's careers with the team. Lakers have certainly had their down moments under Dr Jerry Buss, no franchise in sports can avoid it. Lakers have just been fortunate to have shorter down years and longer up years than most teams.


That wasn't merely good fortune or luck. There's a lot to be learned from the article.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:36 am    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
Apparently some fans here believe that Forbes is a great place for basketball analysis.



You think that article was just about basketball analysis?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:32 am    Post subject:

No amount of outside perspective will change the opinions of those who have dug their heels in that there's absolutely nothing wrong.

Article is spot on from a business perspective, although the cycle of corporate degeneration has been mentioned a number of times before by other people on this site.

Doc was "proven" already when he got into his position in the sense that he was a self made man. Then he proved himself beyond that by turning his franchise into the gold standard (although it's become fashionable here lately to hear people revising history and saying it was only minimally his doing).

His son has proven nothing in his entire life even with the tools he's got; the impetus is on him to change any perspectives of his product, not the other way around.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:46 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
kray28_ wrote:
Lakers are a laughingstock in all corners.


What is it with all the people jumping off the bandwagon but refusing to actually get off the bandwagon? Its like the guy who breaks up with you but won't actually leave.


Well it's like this, in the past if you watched a national broadcast of the Lakers, you got the vibe that they were kind of hated and feared. Now you see those same people hating, but instead of fear, you get smiles, smirks and guffaws.

Tell me I am wrong about this.


Last edited by K28 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:53 am    Post subject:

divncom wrote:
No amount of outside perspective will change the opinions of those who have dug their heels in that there's absolutely nothing wrong.

Article is spot on from a business perspective, although the cycle of corporate degeneration has been mentioned a number of times before by other people on this site.

Doc was "proven" already when he got into his position in the sense that he was a self made man. Then he proved himself beyond that by turning his franchise into the gold standard (although it's become fashionable here lately to hear people revising history and saying it was only minimally his doing).

His son has proven nothing in his entire life even with the tools he's got; the impetus is on him to change any perspectives of his product, not the other way around.


The funny thing about the Lakers is that from the business standpoint, they are doing fine, in fact they are making more money than ever. just like the Knicks. They are the new Knicks....their problem is on the basketball operations side which is separate from the business side. And the Lakers business side is buffered quite a bit from the negative consequences of poor basketball performance.


Last edited by K28 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:47 am    Post subject:

But he (Dr. Buss) botched his most important move: the team’s succession plan. He gave effective control to his enigmatic and unproven son, Jim. Elite organizations don’t do that; so the minute the elder Buss did this, the Lakers effectively renounced their status as an elite organization.

I read an article that talked about Dr. Buss and Jim relationship. It discussed Dr. Buss and Jim going "clubbing" together, apparently Jim and Dr. Buss spent a lot of time together as party friends. The reason I bring this up is because it is not your normal father son relationship to say to least. We all know that Dr. Buss loved women, he kept a photo album of his past relationships, seems a little weird, however, most of us have never had the resources to entertain/party, so I am not saying their lifestyle is wrong because under the same circumstances many of us might do the same. I am just pointing out that Dr. Buss and Jim relationship seemed to be kind of a best friend/father son relationship. Because they were not only father son they were also friends which influenced Dr. Buss to make Jim the one to be in charge of basketball operations.

IMO Dr. Buss unconditional love and his loyalty to his children is a incredible good character attribute, however when it came down to selecting the best possible person to run basketball operations for the Lakers his judgment was clouded because of his friendship, love and loyalty to Jim.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:58 am    Post subject:

deal wrote:
You all really want to take a shot at Forbes??? Very funny...


The guy who wrote this is just an independent contributor to Forbes.com (like the Bleacher Report model), so I agree, no need to take a shot at the site.

The writer, on the other hand, deserves all the shots he can get. He poses some interesting ideas, but ultimately his conclusions are based on the emotions of a disappointed fan. He doesn't go into enough depth to tie everything together.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
deal wrote:
You all really want to take a shot at Forbes??? Very funny...







Here's the deal: This blog isn't from "Forbes" in terms of some pronouncement of the magazine. It's just a blog one guy wrote for Forbes.

And you know something: I've written for Forbes too.

So if you think this blog is the voice of "Forbes," then every post I write on LG is just as much the voice of Forbes


whats the difference.....its comments about our team...you either believe what is written or you don't.....I love how the pro jim buss/mda people always attack the writer or the poster....
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject:

This is the key paragraph:

Quote:
If you plan to be part of an enduringly elite organization, succession has to be rigorously meritocratic, especially when family or old friends are involved. Otherwise you fail to renew your organization, and you fail to “always be having a revolution” in the manner that G.K. Chesterton described.


I would amend that slightly - ownership can be hereditary, but senior management has to be merit based, otherwise all you have is echo chambering and back slapping over cocktails.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:34 am    Post subject:

Voices wrote:
But he (Dr. Buss) botched his most important move: the team’s succession plan. He gave effective control to his enigmatic and unproven son, Jim. Elite organizations don’t do that; so the minute the elder Buss did this, the Lakers effectively renounced their status as an elite organization.

I read an article that talked about Dr. Buss and Jim relationship. It discussed Dr. Buss and Jim going "clubbing" together, apparently Jim and Dr. Buss spent a lot of time together as party friends. The reason I bring this up is because it is not your normal father son relationship to say to least. We all know that Dr. Buss loved women, he kept a photo album of his past relationships, seems a little weird, however, most of us have never had the resources to entertain/party, so I am not saying their lifestyle is wrong because under the same circumstances many of us might do the same. I am just pointing out that Dr. Buss and Jim relationship seemed to be kind of a best friend/father son relationship. Because they were not only father son they were also friends which influenced Dr. Buss to make Jim the one to be in charge of basketball operations.

IMO Dr. Buss unconditional love and his loyalty to his children is a incredible good character attribute, however when it came down to selecting the best possible person to run basketball operations for the Lakers his judgment was clouded because of his friendship, love and loyalty to Jim.


no one could have said it better....I totally believe that's why jim was given the job....because if he based on actual job productivity...jim buss would have been a scout and that's it. As much as I love jerry buss, what he did in the end....really clouds things.
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deal
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject:

LuciusAllen wrote:
deal wrote:
You all really want to take a shot at Forbes??? Very funny...


The guy who wrote this is just an independent contributor to Forbes.com (like the Bleacher Report model), so I agree, no need to take a shot at the site.

The writer, on the other hand, deserves all the shots he can get. He poses some interesting ideas, but ultimately his conclusions are based on the emotions of a disappointed fan. He doesn't go into enough depth to tie everything together.



Forbes being a traditional family owned business is maybe not the best to comment here. But family owned businesses are something I don't necessarily buy into generally speaking, obviously some probably do.

Lakers?, maybe Jimmy knows his stuff more than he's given credit for or not. But I'm absolutely certain the Lakers deserve the absolute best head of basketball operations, anything short of that is belittling the Lakers Org.

Kobe? Kobe is what he is, a ball dominate HOF'r. If you don't have a great team it's wonderful to have a great player. I'd love a great team that shares the ball but that's not what the Lakers have today, and not for the next couple of seasons at least.


My O though...
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
kray28_ wrote:
Lakers are a laughingstock in all corners.


What is it with all the people jumping off the bandwagon but refusing to actually get off the bandwagon? Its like the guy who breaks up with you but won't actually leave.


You had a lot of guys breaking up with you?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject:

Voices wrote:
But he (Dr. Buss) botched his most important move: the team’s succession plan. He gave effective control to his enigmatic and unproven son, Jim. Elite organizations don’t do that; so the minute the elder Buss did this, the Lakers effectively renounced their status as an elite organization.

I read an article that talked about Dr. Buss and Jim relationship. It discussed Dr. Buss and Jim going "clubbing" together, apparently Jim and Dr. Buss spent a lot of time together as party friends. The reason I bring this up is because it is not your normal father son relationship to say to least. We all know that Dr. Buss loved women, he kept a photo album of his past relationships, seems a little weird, however, most of us have never had the resources to entertain/party, so I am not saying their lifestyle is wrong because under the same circumstances many of us might do the same. I am just pointing out that Dr. Buss and Jim relationship seemed to be kind of a best friend/father son relationship. Because they were not only father son they were also friends which influenced Dr. Buss to make Jim the one to be in charge of basketball operations.

IMO Dr. Buss unconditional love and his loyalty to his children is a incredible good character attribute, however when it came down to selecting the best possible person to run basketball operations for the Lakers his judgment was clouded because of his friendship, love and loyalty to Jim.


Don't forget the baseball caps. They both wear baseball caps, except Dr Buss kept his clean and Jim's is dirty. Such a strange relationship.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
This is the key paragraph:

Quote:
If you plan to be part of an enduringly elite organization, succession has to be rigorously meritocratic, especially when family or old friends are involved. Otherwise you fail to renew your organization, and you fail to “always be having a revolution” in the manner that G.K. Chesterton described.


I would amend that slightly - ownership can be hereditary, but senior management has to be merit based, otherwise all you have is echo chambering and back slapping over cocktails.


The primary issue is that Jim Buss is involved in any form of basketball operations. In Jeanie's case, being involved on the business side, she comes with the requisite business management credentials. But what credentials or any level of measurable merit does Jim bring with him?

So this point is a pretty important one and very accurate in terms of describing a certain cause of dysfunction within the organization.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:55 am    Post subject:

clutchkobe wrote:
activeverb wrote:
deal wrote:
You all really want to take a shot at Forbes??? Very funny...







Here's the deal: This blog isn't from "Forbes" in terms of some pronouncement of the magazine. It's just a blog one guy wrote for Forbes.

And you know something: I've written for Forbes too.

So if you think this blog is the voice of "Forbes," then every post I write on LG is just as much the voice of Forbes


whats the difference.....its comments about our team...you either believe what is written or you don't.....I love how the pro jim buss/mda people always attack the writer or the poster....


yeah, because if Forbes wrote an article supporting Jim Buss you wouldn't be in here doing the same thing.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:58 am    Post subject:

LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
Let's not forget that this team was one trade veto away from being one of the greatest teams ever assembled by buss


yeah but since Jimbo used to be a horse jockey and partied with his dad and wears baseball caps, the good moves that he's actually made and the facts surrounding his tenure as VP don't count.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject:

Forbes is now criticizing this team.

Wait till the Wall Street Journal comes up with its article.

The truth hurts to the Jim Buss fans.

The bottom line is that this team (led by Buss) is going to have worse record ever in Laker history.

What is scary is that Jim Buss is still going to be here and he might actually break his record with another one of his teams.

With Jim Buss making his decisions for the coaches of Mike Brown and MDA, he basically has destroyed any chance for Kobe to win number 6.

Until Buss lets go of his control we will not win again.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject:

LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
Let's not forget that this team was one trade veto away from being one of the greatest teams ever assembled by buss


Except the trade didn't go through. Whine and cry about it, sure . . . for a minute. Then get up off your butt and execute Plan B (which should have already been in place, since 90% of all trade talks collapse).

Jerry West had a Plan B (Mutombo) in place if Shaq had decided to stay in Orlando.

Jason Kidd passed on the Spurs after a hard press and Buford went for Plan B (Brent Barry).

When the CP3 deal feel through, Jimmy had a box of Kleenex.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:05 pm    Post subject:

You guys realize that when we win the next title, we're not letting you back in the club?
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