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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:47 am Post subject: Lakers 2017-18 Guard Rotation (S.O.S.) |
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GONE: Lou, DLO, Swaggy P (47.4 ppg, 7 3PM, 9 APG); also gone are Ennis/Calderon/Huertas.
This trio represented 45% of the team’s total PPG, 60% of team’s 3 pointers for the entire season, and 43% of the team’s total assists).
REMAINING: Lonzo (rookie), JC (14.7/3/2.6), Nwaba (6/3.2/.7), Hart (rookie)
Areas of concerns:
1. Scoring: I don’t think it’s guaranteed that Lonzo is a double figure scorer as a rookie. JC, if he’s still here, may see an uptick in his scoring, but won’t be enough. We will badly need some help as we our best iso creator is JC, and that’s not saying much. We lose the ability of the Lou/DLO/Swaggy trio to get absurdly hot and score 30+ individually a game. The FA market is pretty bare in terms of replacing scoring. Patty Mills could help but he’s too expensive.
2. 3 point shooting: He may be able to make up some of the lost 3 point production, but it’s not a given either. DLO, a good college 3 point shooter is a good benchmark for Lonzo. JC had a down year 3% wise. I think he will be around a 32-33% 3 point shooter. We have enough reps from him now. Lonzo, I think may be around a 33-34% shooter his first year. Nwaba is a lost case for now and Hart, hopefully a mid 30s shooter. But aside from Lonzo, we are losing that spacing from 3 that this trio provided. Ingram/Jules shot under 30% from 3s, so they must absolutely improve their 3 point shooting. Brook Lopez may be our best shooter on the team, but from a guard standpoint, we are losing a lot of firepower.
3. ISO scoring: Lou was the master of this. DLO couldn’t really break down guys off the dribble, but his posting skills will be missed. Lonzo/Hart aren’t known to be iso scorers.
4. Assists: I think Lonzo will help this team improve tremendously. I hope he can help set a culture of passing and unselfishness. We had several black holes on offense with Lou/Swaggy, and DLO oftentimes called his number too often. JC remains an iso-heavy player but hopefully Lonzo can snap him out of it.
5. Defense: Lou/DLO/Swaggy were a poor defending trio. So not much lost on that end.
In conclusion: we are really going to be missing out on scoring, 3 point shooting, and iso scoring from the lost trio. The FA market has some options, but with a likely 1 year punt provision for all FAs, this may be tough to recoup. At the least, I hope we can find as many 3/D players. Brook will bring some more consistent scoring (20ppg scorer) but he is a center, so if our projected starting lineup (Lonzo/JC/BI/Jules/Brook) is out there, he will be game-planned by teams and often doubled teamed. If we can’t get strong scorers, the hope is that we can get guys who can hit 3s and play some modicum of defense.
My suggestions would be to offer 1 year deals to Darren Collison and Arron Afflalo. Both are no longer prime players, but possible 1 year rentals who can help our guard rotation. We are very green and young in a position that is getting more and more competitive in the West. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Would love Patty Mills, but will probably want a long term deal and will get 11-12m/year.
Livingston doesn't space the floor for us, but is a steady presence. Not sure we can get a 1 year deal from him either. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8163
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Nicely thought out. As you point out there is a dire need to fill some roster spots with contributors not just placeholders IMO. Going to be tough to sign quality with only 1 year deals.
I'm OK with the Collison, Afflalo or Ariza suggestions I have seen.
Best options I have seen speculated is trading for Patrick Beverly and if Danny Green became available. Pretty much takes care of all your problem areas. |
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Tanlentueux Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 7169
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:09 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Would love Patty Mills, but will probably want a long term deal and will get 11-12m/year.
Livingston doesn't space the floor for us, but is a steady presence. Not sure we can get a 1 year deal from him either. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Interested to see who the Lakers fill out the guard rotation with. Glad we only have to wait till Sunday to see who we're targeting. One thing though, I'm not down for SGs in PG bodies.
That being said, I'm glad BLo will be taking care of some of the scoring and 3PT load. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39612
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:15 am Post subject: |
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I know most people think keeping Russell would have made us better off but I really, really think he or Randle had to go. These guys were way too comfortable and were not putting out the effort that was needed. Everything you said is correct in regards to scoring and 3 point shooting but it had to be done. You know how coaches are always talking about building a culture... it had to start somewhere.
With that said we definitely need a SG who can shoot and preferably one who can play defense too. Unless Ingram and Randle make a big improvement Lonzo won't have anyone to pass to. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Also an underrated need is a secondary creator at the guard position. Lonzo flourished off ball with Aaron Holiday running "PG" a lot at UCLA. I have little confidence that JC or Hart is that kind of player. That kind of guard is more difficult to find IMO. Livingston would match that concept. Or, we can play a "PG" next to Lonzo who guards the SG. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Also an underrated need is a secondary creator at the guard position. Lonzo flourished off ball with Aaron Holiday running "PG" a lot at UCLA. I have little confidence that JC or Hart is that kind of player. That kind of guard is more difficult to find IMO. Livingston would match that concept. Or, we can play a "PG" next to Lonzo who guards the SG. |
That's why we're going after Jrue |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:36 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Also an underrated need is a secondary creator at the guard position. Lonzo flourished off ball with Aaron Holiday running "PG" a lot at UCLA. I have little confidence that JC or Hart is that kind of player. That kind of guard is more difficult to find IMO. Livingston would match that concept. Or, we can play a "PG" next to Lonzo who guards the SG. |
That's why we're going after Jrue |
Sadly, the 2018 2 Max plan won't allow it. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Man, this is putting an inordinate amount of pressure on Lonzo. If you don't put a "safety valve" secondary creator/ballhandler next to him, he could have some struggles running the team. He's 19. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Lou was the master of high screen and rolls. They just looked like isos because he never used the screen.
3PT Shooting and defense are #1 and #2 to me. We can get isos and scoring from Randle, Ingram and Clarkson. Lopez as well, who's very efficient on post-ups.
Also, why is it assumed Ennis is gone?
Last edited by greenfrog on Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:48 am; edited 2 times in total |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:41 am Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | Lou was the master of high screen and rolls. They just looked like isos because he never used the screen.
3PT Shooting and defense are #1 and #2 to me. We can get isos and scoring from Randle, Ingram and Clarkson.
Also, why is it assumed Ennis is gone? |
I don't think I want to see Jules/JC iso balling like they did in their weaker moments the past 2 years.
He's gone until he's not. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Areas of concern: everything _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: |
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justsomelakerfan wrote: | Areas of concern: everything |
I mean, at this moment, we are relying on a 19 year old and JC of all people to steer this ship. I think most if not all our FA money has to go towards bolstering our guard depth. We need some veterans ASAP. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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30 Star Player
Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Posts: 4985
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Dion Waiters I guess can be a potential short term pickup who can create his own shot. Maybe hope McLemore develops outside of SAC. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:50 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | Areas of concern: everything |
I mean, at this moment, we are relying on a 19 year old and JC of all people to steer this ship. I think most if not all our FA money has to go towards bolstering our guard depth. We need some veterans ASAP. |
Sure if they're good, and not Metta. |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:53 am Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | Lou was the master of high screen and rolls. They just looked like isos because he never used the screen.
3PT Shooting and defense are #1 and #2 to me. We can get isos and scoring from Randle, Ingram and Clarkson. Lopez as well, who's very efficient on post-ups.
Also, why is it assumed Ennis is gone? |
Haha, maybe we could use our cap space to get LouWill's expiring contract and another draft pick! |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Lopez will be the leading scorer on the team. You can book that (if no George). Lonzo's entry passing is mesmerizing. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a career year. |
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CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3918
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Would love Patty Mills, but will probably want a long term deal and will get 11-12m/year.
Livingston doesn't space the floor for us, but is a steady presence. Not sure we can get a 1 year deal from him either. |
Do you know anything about Tony Snell Milwaukee?
Shot 40.2% from 3 last year...
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-free-agency-2017-breaking-down-the-best-3-and-d-guys-on-the-free-agent-market/ _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
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CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3918
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | Nicely thought out. As you point out there is a dire need to fill some roster spots with contributors not just placeholders IMO. Going to be tough to sign quality with only 1 year deals.
I'm OK with the Collison, Afflalo or Ariza suggestions I have seen.
Best options I have seen speculated is trading for Patrick Beverly and if Danny Green became available. Pretty much takes care of all your problem areas. |
I'd do cartwheels for any of them. Glad NY is gone...wish he would have left his jumper though. LOL.
I could see BI spending some time at the 1 for the 2nd unit with Lonzo playing off ball. _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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RFA. Can't pry with a 1 year deal. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3918
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: |
RFA. Can't pry with a 1 year deal. |
oh well.... _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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We should take a hard look at Tim Hardaway Jr. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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lakerlove123 Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Jul 2015 Posts: 364
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | Lopez will be the leading scorer on the team. You can book that (if no George). Lonzo's entry passing is mesmerizing. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a career year. |
Unfortunately, if this happens, how will it be different than when Lou was on the team? (He was doing an amazing job of scoring, taking away our younger players' chance to learn to score. —And so, we traded him, thus opening up those opportunities).
I suppose one could argue that Lou was a "black hole" (although I hate to say that bout Sweet Lou, much props dude ) since he was almost purely scoring, whereas Lonzo would still be "learning" about how to assist in the NBA if what you say is true.
Still wouldn't be an "ideal" situation though, using last year & Lou as a comparison, since presumably a big year from Brook means a lesser year from ZuBlocka
Just my 2c |
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King Randle Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014 Posts: 7313
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Lakers 2017-18 Guard Rotation (S.O.S.) |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | GONE: Lou, DLO, Swaggy P (47.4 ppg, 7 3PM, 9 APG); also gone are Ennis/Calderon/Huertas.
This trio represented 45% of the team’s total PPG, 60% of team’s 3 pointers for the entire season, and 43% of the team’s total assists).
REMAINING: Lonzo (rookie), JC (14.7/3/2.6), Nwaba (6/3.2/.7), Hart (rookie)
Areas of concerns:
1. Scoring: I don’t think it’s guaranteed that Lonzo is a double figure scorer as a rookie. JC, if he’s still here, may see an uptick in his scoring, but won’t be enough. We will badly need some help as we our best iso creator is JC, and that’s not saying much. We lose the ability of the Lou/DLO/Swaggy trio to get absurdly hot and score 30+ individually a game. The FA market is pretty bare in terms of replacing scoring. Patty Mills could help but he’s too expensive.
2. 3 point shooting: He may be able to make up some of the lost 3 point production, but it’s not a given either. DLO, a good college 3 point shooter is a good benchmark for Lonzo. JC had a down year 3% wise. I think he will be around a 32-33% 3 point shooter. We have enough reps from him now. Lonzo, I think may be around a 33-34% shooter his first year. Nwaba is a lost case for now and Hart, hopefully a mid 30s shooter. But aside from Lonzo, we are losing that spacing from 3 that this trio provided. Ingram/Jules shot under 30% from 3s, so they must absolutely improve their 3 point shooting. Brook Lopez may be our best shooter on the team, but from a guard standpoint, we are losing a lot of firepower.
3. ISO scoring: Lou was the master of this. DLO couldn’t really break down guys off the dribble, but his posting skills will be missed. Lonzo/Hart aren’t known to be iso scorers.
4. Assists: I think Lonzo will help this team improve tremendously. I hope he can help set a culture of passing and unselfishness. We had several black holes on offense with Lou/Swaggy, and DLO oftentimes called his number too often. JC remains an iso-heavy player but hopefully Lonzo can snap him out of it.
5. Defense: Lou/DLO/Swaggy were a poor defending trio. So not much lost on that end.
In conclusion: we are really going to be missing out on scoring, 3 point shooting, and iso scoring from the lost trio. The FA market has some options, but with a likely 1 year punt provision for all FAs, this may be tough to recoup. At the least, I hope we can find as many 3/D players. Brook will bring some more consistent scoring (20ppg scorer) but he is a center, so if our projected starting lineup (Lonzo/JC/BI/Jules/Brook) is out there, he will be game-planned by teams and often doubled teamed. If we can’t get strong scorers, the hope is that we can get guys who can hit 3s and play some modicum of defense.
My suggestions would be to offer 1 year deals to Darren Collison and Arron Afflalo. Both are no longer prime players, but possible 1 year rentals who can help our guard rotation. We are very green and young in a position that is getting more and more competitive in the West. |
I like your thinking 1 year deals for both or just one of them. We definitely need some experience there. |
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