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Bard207
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Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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 Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
One of the problems is teams basically can keep a stud rookie on a contract for 7 years. By the time they truly enter free agency, some are near 27-29 years old (still in prime). So by the time you sign them to a 4 year contract, you're going to be in 27-31 and 29-33 age range. So the drafting team gets 3-4 years of a cheap as dirt contract (while getting great production), keeps them the player in their prime, then can re-start the process by drafting again.
So Lakers are now looking at more possible Melos (29-30 y.o. this summer) as free agents as opposed to getting free agents in their younger primes. And since LA will not be an annual participant in the Lottery, we have to get lucky with finding a lead stud via free agency. |
This.
Shaq was 24 - 25 when he came to the Lakers and it took several seasons to get other things (the right coach and rest of the roster) in congruence to win a Championship.
Since future Free Agents will more likely be in their late 20's versus Shaq's mid 20's, it could be much more difficult to get everything right before the window starts to close due to a decline in skills and/or injuries. |
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City_Dawg
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 46878
Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Will we ever be what we once were? |
No, it's over. Terrorists win.
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*sighs*
!... |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
One of the problems is teams basically can keep a stud rookie on a contract for 7 years. By the time they truly enter free agency, some are near 27-29 years old (still in prime). So by the time you sign them to a 4 year contract, you're going to be in 27-31 and 29-33 age range. So the drafting team gets 3-4 years of a cheap as dirt contract (while getting great production), keeps them the player in their prime, then can re-start the process by drafting again.
So Lakers are now looking at more possible Melos (29-30 y.o. this summer) as free agents as opposed to getting free agents in their younger primes. And since LA will not be an annual participant in the Lottery, we have to get lucky with finding a lead stud via free agency. |
This.
Shaq was 24 - 25 when he came to the Lakers and it took several seasons to get other things (the right coach and rest of the roster) in congruence to win a Championship.
Since future Free Agents will more likely be in their late 20's versus Shaq's mid 20's, it could be much more difficult to get everything right before the window starts to close due to a decline in skills and/or injuries. |
I'm not advocating for tank jobs down the road, but that's the reality of the CBA we're working with. Our championship windows will be smaller due to the age of the star free agent we acquire.
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Boybees
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Joined: 13 May 2001
Posts: 1161
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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As long as Jim Buss is an owner with control over basketball operations, we'll never be what we once were. Ownership is everything in professional sports, and we are saddled with an incompetent owner.
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Jerry Buss made the Lakers into the crown jewel of the NBA. |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Having a sense of urgency as a fan after a 26 win season makes sense. How many people on this site watched the Minneapolis Lakers back in 1959? Cause that was the last time we were this bad.
I think it is rational for Laker fans to wonder. Can the same FO group who has led us to the worst LA lakers season ever be the same people who can win us championships moving forward? That is a very huge range! |
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LakersMDGurl
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 18015
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:40 am Post subject: |
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We i for the long run of "hurts" sorry. Not till Kobe retires, will we even have a sniff of what we once were. But that is the cycle of life. We will be better, in 3 years. So get ready for the Clippers, GSW, Suns and even Queens to be atop us in the division the next 3 seasons.
I would glady be wrong and eat crow.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMDGurl wrote: | We i for the long run of "hurts" sorry. Not till Kobe retires, will we even have a sniff of what we once were. But that is the cycle of life. We will be better, in 3 years. So get ready for the Clippers, GSW, Suns and even Queens to be atop us in the division the next 3 seasons.
I would glady be wrong and eat crow. |
Let them win the division banners; we'll stock up to win championship ones.
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LakersMDGurl
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 18015
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakersMDGurl wrote: | We i for the long run of "hurts" sorry. Not till Kobe retires, will we even have a sniff of what we once were. But that is the cycle of life. We will be better, in 3 years. So get ready for the Clippers, GSW, Suns and even Queens to be atop us in the division the next 3 seasons.
I would glady be wrong and eat crow. |
Let them win the division banners; we'll stock up to win championship ones. |
How? we can't even make the playoffs  
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Boybees wrote: | | As long as Jim Buss is an owner with control over basketball operations, we'll never be what we once were. Ownership is everything in professional sports, and we are saddled with an incompetent owner. |
That must be why the Clippers are doing well, right? |
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rock0100
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Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5399
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
One of the problems is teams basically can keep a stud rookie on a contract for 7 years. By the time they truly enter free agency, some are near 27-29 years old (still in prime). So by the time you sign them to a 4 year contract, you're going to be in 27-31 and 29-33 age range. So the drafting team gets 3-4 years of a cheap as dirt contract (while getting great production), keeps them the player in their prime, then can re-start the process by drafting again.
So Lakers are now looking at more possible Melos (29-30 y.o. this summer) as free agents as opposed to getting free agents in their younger primes. And since LA will not be an annual participant in the Lottery, we have to get lucky with finding a lead stud via free agency. |
This.
Shaq was 24 - 25 when he came to the Lakers and it took several seasons to get other things (the right coach and rest of the roster) in congruence to win a Championship.
Since future Free Agents will more likely be in their late 20's versus Shaq's mid 20's, it could be much more difficult to get everything right before the window starts to close due to a decline in skills and/or injuries. |
Which is what makes keeping our pick so vital. We have the opportunity to aquire a young centerpiece at a low price. Trading the pick for Kyrie also makes sense because of Kyries age, however, Lowry is available this summer and is a very good option.
I think the key to working around the new CBA is succesfully stealing a restricted free agent. Bledsoe comes to mind but his knees worry me.
To me, the perfect steal is Greg Monroe. He is NOT a defensive big by any means, but he is only 23 and has a lot of talent. Also, Lance Stephenson presents a great opportunity. Great talent, free agent, only 23 and IS NOT restricted.
Can we sign Lowry and Lance and have just enough left to steal Monroe? Add those 3 free agents and get a good athletic PF in the draft and we will be a playoff team next year...with the right coach! |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| rock0100 wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
One of the problems is teams basically can keep a stud rookie on a contract for 7 years. By the time they truly enter free agency, some are near 27-29 years old (still in prime). So by the time you sign them to a 4 year contract, you're going to be in 27-31 and 29-33 age range. So the drafting team gets 3-4 years of a cheap as dirt contract (while getting great production), keeps them the player in their prime, then can re-start the process by drafting again.
So Lakers are now looking at more possible Melos (29-30 y.o. this summer) as free agents as opposed to getting free agents in their younger primes. And since LA will not be an annual participant in the Lottery, we have to get lucky with finding a lead stud via free agency. |
This.
Shaq was 24 - 25 when he came to the Lakers and it took several seasons to get other things (the right coach and rest of the roster) in congruence to win a Championship.
Since future Free Agents will more likely be in their late 20's versus Shaq's mid 20's, it could be much more difficult to get everything right before the window starts to close due to a decline in skills and/or injuries. |
Which is what makes keeping our pick so vital. We have the opportunity to aquire a young centerpiece at a low price. Trading the pick for Kyrie also makes sense because of Kyries age, however, Lowry is available this summer and is a very good option.
I think the key to working around the new CBA is succesfully stealing a restricted free agent. Bledsoe comes to mind but his knees worry me.
To me, the perfect steal is Greg Monroe. He is NOT a defensive big by any means, but he is only 23 and has a lot of talent. Also, Lance Stephenson presents a great opportunity. Great talent, free agent, only 23 and IS NOT restricted.
Can we sign Lowry and Lance and have just enough left to steal Monroe? Add those 3 free agents and get a good athletic PF in the draft and we will be a playoff team next year...with the right coach! |
Answer to the bolded is no.
Lowry = $10m
Lance = $11m
Monroe = $13m
Total: $34m
Kobe = $23.5
Nash = $9.5
Total: $67m (rough estimates not including cap holds....and projections of salaries for free agents).
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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rock0100
Star Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5399
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | rock0100 wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
One of the problems is teams basically can keep a stud rookie on a contract for 7 years. By the time they truly enter free agency, some are near 27-29 years old (still in prime). So by the time you sign them to a 4 year contract, you're going to be in 27-31 and 29-33 age range. So the drafting team gets 3-4 years of a cheap as dirt contract (while getting great production), keeps them the player in their prime, then can re-start the process by drafting again.
So Lakers are now looking at more possible Melos (29-30 y.o. this summer) as free agents as opposed to getting free agents in their younger primes. And since LA will not be an annual participant in the Lottery, we have to get lucky with finding a lead stud via free agency. |
This.
Shaq was 24 - 25 when he came to the Lakers and it took several seasons to get other things (the right coach and rest of the roster) in congruence to win a Championship.
Since future Free Agents will more likely be in their late 20's versus Shaq's mid 20's, it could be much more difficult to get everything right before the window starts to close due to a decline in skills and/or injuries. |
Which is what makes keeping our pick so vital. We have the opportunity to aquire a young centerpiece at a low price. Trading the pick for Kyrie also makes sense because of Kyries age, however, Lowry is available this summer and is a very good option.
I think the key to working around the new CBA is succesfully stealing a restricted free agent. Bledsoe comes to mind but his knees worry me.
To me, the perfect steal is Greg Monroe. He is NOT a defensive big by any means, but he is only 23 and has a lot of talent. Also, Lance Stephenson presents a great opportunity. Great talent, free agent, only 23 and IS NOT restricted.
Can we sign Lowry and Lance and have just enough left to steal Monroe? Add those 3 free agents and get a good athletic PF in the draft and we will be a playoff team next year...with the right coach! |
Answer to the bolded is no.
Lowry = $10m
Lance = $11m
Monroe = $13m
Total: $34m
Kobe = $23.5
Nash = $9.5
Total: $67m (rough estimates not including cap holds....and projections of salaries for free agents). |
Yeah, it will be tough but i dont think we should sign Lowry or Lance for that much. Maybe if we can lower each by 3 million annually and stretch Nash.
Man, Kobes salary kills us. Oh well. It's Mitch's job to deal with. We can only sit and watch. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Stephenson, Lowry and Monroe would have to be brought in at really really lowball salaries to accomplish that if Nash is not stretched. Even if Nash is stretched, the new guys would still be getting relatively low salaries. Monroe won't be the rim protector that some are seeking.
23.5 million -- Kobe
9.7 million -- Nash
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33.2 million
7 million -- Monroe
7 million -- Stephenson
7 million -- Lowry
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54.2 million
3.5 million 2014 First Round pick
__________________
57.7 million
That leaves about $4.5 - 5 million left for six additional players if the new Salary Cap is somewhere between $62 - 63 million. Then also a Room exception that could be used.
With Nash stretched, that would enable Lowry, Monroe and Stephenson to come in at an average of $9 million each which would still be on the really low side of projections.
As a point of reference, Lowry is currently making $6.2 million for this season. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| rock0100 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | rock0100 wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
One of the problems is teams basically can keep a stud rookie on a contract for 7 years. By the time they truly enter free agency, some are near 27-29 years old (still in prime). So by the time you sign them to a 4 year contract, you're going to be in 27-31 and 29-33 age range. So the drafting team gets 3-4 years of a cheap as dirt contract (while getting great production), keeps them the player in their prime, then can re-start the process by drafting again.
So Lakers are now looking at more possible Melos (29-30 y.o. this summer) as free agents as opposed to getting free agents in their younger primes. And since LA will not be an annual participant in the Lottery, we have to get lucky with finding a lead stud via free agency. |
This.
Shaq was 24 - 25 when he came to the Lakers and it took several seasons to get other things (the right coach and rest of the roster) in congruence to win a Championship.
Since future Free Agents will more likely be in their late 20's versus Shaq's mid 20's, it could be much more difficult to get everything right before the window starts to close due to a decline in skills and/or injuries. |
Which is what makes keeping our pick so vital. We have the opportunity to aquire a young centerpiece at a low price. Trading the pick for Kyrie also makes sense because of Kyries age, however, Lowry is available this summer and is a very good option.
I think the key to working around the new CBA is succesfully stealing a restricted free agent. Bledsoe comes to mind but his knees worry me.
To me, the perfect steal is Greg Monroe. He is NOT a defensive big by any means, but he is only 23 and has a lot of talent. Also, Lance Stephenson presents a great opportunity. Great talent, free agent, only 23 and IS NOT restricted.
Can we sign Lowry and Lance and have just enough left to steal Monroe? Add those 3 free agents and get a good athletic PF in the draft and we will be a playoff team next year...with the right coach! |
Answer to the bolded is no.
Lowry = $10m
Lance = $11m
Monroe = $13m
Total: $34m
Kobe = $23.5
Nash = $9.5
Total: $67m (rough estimates not including cap holds....and projections of salaries for free agents). |
Yeah, it will be tough but i dont think we should sign Lowry or Lance for that much. Maybe if we can lower each by 3 million annually and stretch Nash.
Man, Kobes salary kills us. Oh well. It's Mitch's job to deal with. We can only sit and watch. |
That's what I believe is the market value for these players. Lowry will get paid as he is basically a top 10 PG in the league now.
Lance may get slightly less, say maybe as low as $8-9m.
Monroe will take nearly a max deal for Detroit to not match.
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Laker fans.
"We know drama." |
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Wino
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Just got off the phone with Jimbo!!
The plan is to let the ship sink until all these miserable complaining fans, jump off. When we are back to having good fans who support the team, he will rebuild!!
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Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
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Black Salt
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 2204
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | Just got off the phone with Jimbo!!
The plan is to let the ship sink until all these miserable complaining fans, jump off. When we are back to having good fans who support the team, he will rebuild!!
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:54 am Post subject: |
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I don't see any reason we can't return to what we were, and I don't see why it is arguable. We are still in LA, we will still be willing to spend, and we still have Mitch longterm. I see no counters to that.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:04 am Post subject: |
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I feel that the CP3 trade, the quick fix trades to get Nash/Dwight were akin to a group of officers trying to overthrow a government. The coup failed and then there is fallout from it.
We swung for the fences and missed big time. We are paying for it now but it doesn't mean we won't be in a position to swing for the fences again soon (2016 to be exact).
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Will we ever be what we once were? |
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| divncom wrote: | | Will we ever be what we once were?. |
We need a reality check.
It's been four years since we won a ring.
It's been two years since people were going gaga over the superteam of Dwight, Kobe, Gasol and Nash.
The obvious lesson: There is literally 0 chance of the Lakers having any success over the next 3000 years.
Time to panic, people. Panic today and panic over your next 30 reincarnated lives. |
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Vin
Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 6005
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Will we ever be what we once were? |
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| activeverb wrote: | | divncom wrote: | | Will we ever be what we once were?. |
We need a reality check.
It's been four years since we won a ring.
It's been two years since people were going gaga over the superteam of Dwight, Kobe, Gasol and Nash.
The obvious lesson: There is literally 0 chance of the Lakers having any success over the next 3000 years.
Time to panic, people. Panic today and panic over your next 30 reincarnated lives. |
I've read somewhere that the lakers will actually make the playoffs in the year 2240. |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Will we ever be what we once were? |
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| activeverb wrote: | | divncom wrote: | | Will we ever be what we once were?. |
We need a reality check.
It's been four years since we won a ring.
It's been one and a half years since people were going gaga over the superteam of Dwight, Kobe, Gasol and Nash.
The obvious lesson: There is literally 0 chance of the Lakers having any success over the next 3000 years.
Time to panic, people. Panic today and panic over your next 30 reincarnated lives. |
Fixed for even more absurd accuracy
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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LakerDYnasty72
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Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4574
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Short answer: absolutely..but it will more than likely be a longer process than the average fan is willing to wait and bear. Mitch will find a way...watch! |
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mde24
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 755
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: |
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We knew once the Kobe era was done, the Lakers would be in a rebuilding cycle. What we as fans didn't factor in was the death of Jerry Buss, but the impact of his declining health has been a factor for years, even our last championship. Jim and Mitch have really been a hit and miss combo as far as our personal decisions. (It ain't as bad as it seems, it just ain't as good as daddy when went to work.) What we all haven't spoken on is the rise and fall of the other NBA greats, we just continue to compare our situation to Boston, the Knick's and other franchises that have already fallen. The tide is out for the Lakers but there's gonna be plenty of familiar faces to keep us company. (Namely the heat, they gotta feel the tide ebbing out, no one stays on top forever, only the Spurs seem to have found the fountain of youth... seems.) Youthful contenders are just that, only one will be champion. All I'm saying is Champions and contenders rise and fall all the time. The Lakers will return back to contention when they make good, safe personal decisions and leave the injury cycle behind. Even poppa Buss made some bonehead decisions, (Rudy T, Del Harris) but he recovered quickly from his mistakes. Lets have faith that Jim can recover from his.
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"If you see me in a fight with a bear, prey for the bear". Ive always loved that quote. Thats "mamba mentality" we don't quit, we don't cower, we don't run. We endure and conquer. |
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FromTheWestSideWithLove
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Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 938
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:23 am Post subject: |
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of course...
/endthead |
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