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greenfrog
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 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Druggas wrote: | I'd hang Fisher's jersey before Pau's.
Kobe, Pau or Shaq never won a title without him. |
If it was simply a Laker Hall of Fame, which it should be, absolutely. it needs to be either more exclusionary or more inclusive. by punting the decision over to the HoF committee we get the worst of both worlds. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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This isn't even a question.
A guy is going to go into the Hall of Fame just based on his peak career with the Lakers, and he wouldn't get his jersey hanging?
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Druggas wrote: | I'd hang Fisher's jersey before Pau's.
Kobe, Pau or Shaq never won a title without him. |
If it was simply a Laker Hall of Fame, which it should be, absolutely. it needs to be either more exclusionary or more inclusive. by punting the decision over to the HoF committee we get the worst of both worlds. |
I don't think the Lakers simply "punt the decision". Even if they do, I certainly have no problem with their choices so far - whether they be inclusions or exclusions. The Lakers have decided on what their criteria is, and I'm good with it.
One thing's for certain, this thread is indicative of why the fans shouldn't factor into the decision. Then it simply becomes a popularity contest and that's not how the decision should be made. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Druggas wrote: | I'd hang Fisher's jersey before Pau's.
Kobe, Pau or Shaq never won a title without him. |
If it was simply a Laker Hall of Fame, which it should be, absolutely. it needs to be either more exclusionary or more inclusive. by punting the decision over to the HoF committee we get the worst of both worlds. |
I don't think the Lakers simply "punt the decision". Even if they do, I certainly have no problem with their choices so far - whether they be inclusions or exclusions. The Lakers have decided on what their criteria is, and I'm good with it.
One thing's for certain, this thread is indicative of why the fans shouldn't factor into the decision. Then it simply becomes a popularity contest and that's not how the decision should be made. |
i don't know what else to call it. frankly, i don't think they really care that much.
wilkes and goodrich are only up there because of the HoF committee, which is a complete joke. cooper and fisher as lakers are more deserving IMO. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| magicdays wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | OCWA wrote: | | Yes, Gasol will be up there. As far as Coop goes. I think that eventually he will be in the hall of fame and thus be in the rafters also. He has some good individual accomplishments, despite the fact that he was a role player. I think these individual accomplishments coupled with how important a piece he was to a dynastic team will eventually earn him the accolades he deserves. |
on a worse team coop probably would have made a few all-star teams. he sacrificed and adjusted his game to do whatever the lakers needed. i easily put him ahead of pau. |
Wow, your hate for Pau is seething all over. I loved Coop but to put him "easily" ahead of Pau is ridiculous. |
The retired jersey numbers are about LAKERS PLAYERS jersey numbers!!!
.... I think it is fair to consider how much Cooper contributed to the Lakers franchise in comparison to Pau....
.... Cooper is a LIFE LONG Laker for 12 years and significantly contributed to FIVE TITLES!!!
.... as we all know Cooper was a significant factor during the "show time" era.... considered by some to be the greatest Laker era of the franchise since moving to Los Angeles...
.... AND ... as I pointed out before COOPER IS THE ONLY LAKER IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE FRANCHISE THAT HAS WON A DPOY AWARD!!!
.... I think in this case we can and should consider more than just whether the player is presumably a HOF player and consider how much the player has meant to the Lakers organization....
.... Of course Pau is and should be considered the overall more talented player as exemplified by the numbers.... that said, I think it is fair to say that Cooper would have produced considerably more impressive numbers on a team other than the talent laden "show time" Lakers team of the 80's.... and I would add that there is no question that Cooper contributed specifically WAY MORE to the Lakers franchise than Pau has so far.... WOULDN'T YOU AGREE? 
.... If Pau's number were to be retired, I'd have no problem in that case if Cooper's was too.... That said, I am NOT personally a proponent of retiring Pau's number... but since the franchise has retired Wilke's number now, I can see why some would then argue in favor of Pau as well... Personally I think for the most part the talent level of retired Lakers numbers has been generally diluted since the first six were retired.... In my view outside of Baylor, West, Jabbar, Magic and Wilt the retired numbers become debatable.... Clearly those FIVE player are indisputably LEGENDARY type players which cannot really be said about any of the other remaining players with retired numbers, imho.....
....getting back to the topic at hand in regards to Cooper.... the fact is that when we consider "retired numbers" it is Cooper who spent 3 more years as a Lakers player than either Wilkes or Goodrich (both retired numbers) and 7 more years (at this point) than Pau.... Cooper helped the Lakers to 5 titles, Wilkes contributed to 3 titles and Goodrich contributed to 1 title which can be factored in if we want to place any kind of emphasis on titles won.... Out of all three of these other players (Wilkes, Goodrich or Pau) Cooper is the ONLY LIFE-LONG LAKERS player besides the ONLY DPOY player in the franchises history as I mentioned before....
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Scoffs
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Pau was the 2nd option on 2 championship teams. We don't win without Pau. Retire his jersey and do it quickly. We also don't win without Fish's performance in game 5 vs the Celtics in Boston, but Fish's numbers aren't that good, same with Horry's numbers. I would retire Horry's jersey when the Kings are visiting just to rub it in. |
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magicdays
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Druggas wrote: | I'd hang Fisher's jersey before Pau's.
Kobe, Pau or Shaq never won a title without him. |
And Fisher never won a title without Kobe and Magic never won a title without Kareem and Cooper never won a title without...
Kobe and Pau was the duo that brought us two chips. Both will be in the HOF and both will have their jerseys in the rafters 
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MickMgl
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Will pau have his jersey hanging from the rafters one day? |
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| monster_montego wrote: | | Did he make enough of an impact to be displayed in eternity with the laker greats? |
Not a doubt in my mind he gets his # up in the rafters, even if he doesn't play another game for them. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Scoffs wrote: | | Pau was the 2nd option on 2 championship teams. We don't win without Pau. Retire his jersey and do it quickly. We also don't win without Fish's performance in game 5 vs the Celtics in Boston, but Fish's numbers aren't that good, same with Horry's numbers. I would retire Horry's jersey when the Kings are visiting just to rub it in. |
nah. Just retire Horry's jersey during Sacramento games only.
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Discoflux wrote: | | Also, he hasn't played for the lakers long enough, the equivalent of five full years. That's not getting it done. |
Pau has been a Laker for 429 games. Wilt was here for 339 games. Mikan for 439 games. Shaq 509 games. Wilkes for 575 games.
I don't see a reason why he's less deserving than Wilkes and Goodrich. |
Its a good thing that the Laker organization doesn't hold personal grudges when it comes to who gets their jersey retired. I think the Laker fanbase is more critical of jersey retirement criteria, when you consider the above obscure stat of why Pau shouldn't get his jersey retired. |
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paolomagma
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| Yes. No question. |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:07 am Post subject: |
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to dry his laundry probably...
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Cup-of-noodles
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:15 am Post subject: |
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Yes
if he takes alot less money to stay...that makes him a hall of famer in my book...Do it Pau |
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70sdude
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| The next retired jersey seems likely to carry Phil Jackson's name, with a pair of glasses on it, next to the one showing Chicky-baby's microphone. Surely no one associated with the Lakers except Kobe has recently accounted for more great work, and he's already in the Naismith HoF. |
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K2
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| ^As much as I support Phil, doubtful that the organization gives him one before Pat Riley gets one. Besides, with Jim in charge, the chances of PJ receiving a statue are Slim and None, and Slim left town. |
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Epic1971
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely! Without question. You win back to back titles, you go to the Hall of Fame, and you are considered one of the best International players of all time.
Hell yeah #16 will be up there. |
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BennyLava
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think Pau's path to the hall of fame will be as automatic as some seem to think. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: |
....getting back to the topic at hand in regards to Cooper.... the fact is that when we consider "retired numbers" it is Cooper who spent 3 more years as a Lakers player than either Wilkes or Goodrich (both retired numbers) and 7 more years (at this point) than Pau.... Cooper helped the Lakers to 5 titles, Wilkes contributed to 3 titles and Goodrich contributed to 1 title which can be factored in if we want to place any kind of emphasis on titles won.... Out of all three of these other players (Wilkes, Goodrich or Pau) Cooper is the ONLY LIFE-LONG LAKERS player besides the ONLY DPOY player in the franchises history as I mentioned before.... |
Coop was a solid player. But the guy never made an all-star team; he averaged 9-3-4 for his career. He only averaged 30 minutes in his career once.
If you retire his jersey, I think you also retire Byron Scott, Derek Fisher, and AC Green,. And then where do you draw the line - Norm Nixon, Kurt Rambis, Vlade Divac?
I wouldn't retire his jersey. And in reality it won't be retired. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| BennyLava wrote: | | I don't think Pau's path to the hall of fame will be as automatic as some seem to think. |
I'm almost 100% sure he will be in the HOF, due to his contributions in both the international and NBA scenes. The HOF is a basketball one, not an NBA one.
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Koalita
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| There are quite a few contributors of the game that have yet to be inducted, but IMHO, once 5 years pass after Pau retires, unless there's someone who clearly deserves it more (like, Kobe Bryant), it'll be hard to make a case against him to be a first ballot. When he will be inducted can be argued about (1st, 2nd, or later) but the fact that he'll be inducted at some point, is imho quite clear. YMMV. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: |
....getting back to the topic at hand in regards to Cooper.... the fact is that when we consider "retired numbers" it is Cooper who spent 3 more years as a Lakers player than either Wilkes or Goodrich (both retired numbers) and 7 more years (at this point) than Pau.... Cooper helped the Lakers to 5 titles, Wilkes contributed to 3 titles and Goodrich contributed to 1 title which can be factored in if we want to place any kind of emphasis on titles won.... Out of all three of these other players (Wilkes, Goodrich or Pau) Cooper is the ONLY LIFE-LONG LAKERS player besides the ONLY DPOY player in the franchises history as I mentioned before.... |
Coop was a solid player. But the guy never made an all-star team; he averaged 9-3-4 for his career. He only averaged 30 minutes in his career once.
If you retire his jersey, I think you also retire Byron Scott, Derek Fisher, and AC Green,. And then where do you draw the line - Norm Nixon, Kurt Rambis, Vlade Divac?
I wouldn't retire his jersey. And in reality it won't be retired. |
I absolutely agree with you...
I was saying I'd personally consider Cooper IF Pau's number was retired which is why I said in the post your replying too: | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | .... If Pau's number were to be retired, I'd have no problem in that case if Cooper's was too.... That said, I am NOT personally a proponent of retiring Pau's number... but since the franchise has retired Wilke's number now, I can see why some would then argue in favor of Pau as well... Personally I think for the most part the talent level of retired Lakers numbers has been generally diluted since the first six were retired.... In my view outside of Baylor, West, Jabbar, Magic and Wilt the retired numbers become debatable.... Clearly those FIVE player are indisputably LEGENDARY type players which cannot really be said about any of the other remaining players with retired numbers, imho.... |
.
I understand the argument about Pau.... he's going to be a HOF player....
.... and yes, Pau helped contribute to two titles....
.... so no question about it, the argument is there to retire his number...
.... I'm just saying that from my perspective assuming Pau is gone after this year I'm just not a supporter the notion of retiring his number personally.... But then I wasn't a proponent to what I called the "third tier players" in my original post either, POSTED ON PAGE 2: | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | I've always said there are FIVE SUPER-STAR Jersey numbers that have a unique and incomparable stature when compared to the other retired number players:
Baylor, West, Johnson, Jabbar and Wilt are those five incomparable SUPER-STAR players, imho.... then we drop down a bit to Shaq and then start dropping a bit further with the rest of the players (Goodrich, Worthy and Wilkes in that order)....
The likes of Pau and Cooper (THE ONLY LAKER IN HISTORY TO WIN A DPOY AWARD) would arguably belong in my view in that third tier with Goodrich, Worthy and Wilkes..... |
If I recall correctly we've had other HOF players that played for the Lakers a limited amount of time going back through the history of the franchise (maybe not as long as Pau but some a few years) and yet they have not had and will not have their numbers retired....
.... getting back to Cooper, while he was never an All-Star and his numbers aren't that much on paper.... these numbers DO NOT even come close to what WHAT HE CONTRIBUTED....
.... that is because Cooper was primarily a DEFENSIVE PLAYER!!! ... Stats aren't going to "tell the story" regarding a DEFENSIVE PLAYER as we all know....
.... AND... as I had pointed out COOPER IS THE ONLY DPOY IN LAKER FRANCHISE HISTORY.... That to me IS HUGE and personally overshadows a lot of what I referred to as the "third tier players" which is again where I categorized Pau (mainly because of his weaker defensive presence in general and the limited years as a Lakers player)
Pau is primarily an OFFENSIVE PLAYER, clearly defense was not his game.... SO OF COURSE HIS NUMBERS which reflect his "offense" WILL SHINE as compared to Cooper.... To be perfectly honest Pau is clearly the VERY WORST DEFENSIVE PLAYER out of ALL of the what I call "third tier players" I've mentioned....
What I'm looking at really doesn't have anything to do with stats... but rather WHAT COOPER AS A 12 YEAR LAKERS PLAYER FOR LIFE MEANT TO THE FRANCHISE.... I personally feel Cooper meant every bit as much as Pau has to the Lakers franchise.... that is when you consider the INTANGIBLES THAT COOPER BROUGHT TO THE TEAM....
... Pau's numbers glitter as an offensive player, Coopers numbers will not as a defensive player... as a result Pau will be a HOF player and Cooper will not.... If you ask me earning a DPOY (and the only Laker to do it) puts him up pretty close to a number of HOF players in my view....
.... All this said, I still do agree with you that Cooper WILL NOT have his number retired and Pau very likely will.... It's just the way I feel personally regarding these two players is all....
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| 55 wrote: | | Definitely yes, but the jersey will be softer than the rest. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: |
....getting back to the topic at hand in regards to Cooper.... the fact is that when we consider "retired numbers" it is Cooper who spent 3 more years as a Lakers player than either Wilkes or Goodrich (both retired numbers) and 7 more years (at this point) than Pau.... Cooper helped the Lakers to 5 titles, Wilkes contributed to 3 titles and Goodrich contributed to 1 title which can be factored in if we want to place any kind of emphasis on titles won.... Out of all three of these other players (Wilkes, Goodrich or Pau) Cooper is the ONLY LIFE-LONG LAKERS player besides the ONLY DPOY player in the franchises history as I mentioned before.... |
Coop was a solid player. But the guy never made an all-star team; he averaged 9-3-4 for his career. He only averaged 30 minutes in his career once.
If you retire his jersey, I think you also retire Byron Scott, Derek Fisher, and AC Green,. And then where do you draw the line - Norm Nixon, Kurt Rambis, Vlade Divac?
I wouldn't retire his jersey. And in reality it won't be retired. |
I absolutely agree with you...
I was saying I'd personally consider Cooper IF Pau's number was retired which is why I said in the post your replying too: | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | .... If Pau's number were to be retired, I'd have no problem in that case if Cooper's was too.... That said, I am NOT personally a proponent of retiring Pau's number... but since the franchise has retired Wilke's number now, I can see why some would then argue in favor of Pau as well... Personally I think for the most part the talent level of retired Lakers numbers has been generally diluted since the first six were retired.... In my view outside of Baylor, West, Jabbar, Magic and Wilt the retired numbers become debatable.... Clearly those FIVE player are indisputably LEGENDARY type players which cannot really be said about any of the other remaining players with retired numbers, imho.... |
.
I understand the argument about Pau.... he's going to be a HOF player....
.... and yes, Pau helped contribute to two titles....
.... so no question about it, the argument is there to retire his number...
.... I'm just saying that from my perspective assuming Pau is gone after this year I'm just not a supporter the notion of retiring his number personally.... But then I wasn't a proponent to what I called the "third tier players" in my original post either, POSTED ON PAGE 2: | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | I've always said there are FIVE SUPER-STAR Jersey numbers that have a unique and incomparable stature when compared to the other retired number players:
Baylor, West, Johnson, Jabbar and Wilt are those five incomparable SUPER-STAR players, imho.... then we drop down a bit to Shaq and then start dropping a bit further with the rest of the players (Goodrich, Worthy and Wilkes in that order)....
The likes of Pau and Cooper (THE ONLY LAKER IN HISTORY TO WIN A DPOY AWARD) would arguably belong in my view in that third tier with Goodrich, Worthy and Wilkes..... |
If I recall correctly we've had other HOF players that played for the Lakers a limited amount of time going back through the history of the franchise (maybe not as long as Pau but some a few years) and yet they have not had and will not have their numbers retired....
.... getting back to Cooper, while he was never an All-Star and his numbers aren't that much on paper.... these numbers DO NOT even come close to what WHAT HE CONTRIBUTED....
.... that is because Cooper was primarily a DEFENSIVE PLAYER!!! ... Stats aren't going to "tell the story" regarding a DEFENSIVE PLAYER as we all know....
.... AND... as I had pointed out COOPER IS THE ONLY DPOY IN LAKER FRANCHISE HISTORY.... That to me IS HUGE and personally overshadows a lot of what I referred to as the "third tier players" which is again where I categorized Pau (mainly because of his weaker defensive presence in general and the limited years as a Lakers player)
Pau is primarily an OFFENSIVE PLAYER, clearly defense was not his game.... SO OF COURSE HIS NUMBERS which reflect his "offense" WILL SHINE as compared to Cooper.... To be perfectly honest Pau is clearly the VERY WORST DEFENSIVE PLAYER out of ALL of the what I call "third tier players" I've mentioned....
What I'm looking at really doesn't have anything to do with stats... but rather WHAT COOPER AS A 12 YEAR LAKERS PLAYER FOR LIFE MEANT TO THE FRANCHISE.... I personally feel Cooper meant every bit as much as Pau has to the Lakers franchise.... that is when you consider the INTANGIBLES THAT COOPER BROUGHT TO THE TEAM....
... Pau's numbers glitter as an offensive player, Coopers numbers will not as a defensive player... as a result Pau will be a HOF player and Cooper will not.... If you ask me earning a DPOY (and the only Laker to do it) puts him up pretty close to a number of HOF players in my view....
.... All this said, I still do agree with you that Cooper WILL NOT have his number retired and Pau very likely will.... It's just the way I feel personally regarding these two players is all.... |
bob mcadoo? hands down he was a better player than pau |
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chinaurge
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Every single retired Lakers jersey is a Hall of Famer. It's an unwritten rule.
Jamaal Wilkes' jersey was not retired until he was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2012.
Shaq got his retired immediately but he is not eligible for the Hall of Fame until 2017.
Pau will definitely be in the Hall of Fame and have his jersey retired. |
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AshesToAshes
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Scoffs wrote: | | Pau was the 2nd option on 2 championship teams. We don't win without Pau. Retire his jersey and do it quickly. We also don't win without Fish's performance in game 5 vs the Celtics in Boston, but Fish's numbers aren't that good, same with Horry's numbers. I would retire Horry's jersey when the Kings are visiting just to rub it in. |
nah. Just retire Horry's jersey during Sacramento games only. |
It'd be great to have that ceremony during every Sactown game at halftime.
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