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Omar Little
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 Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| salami wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I know. Its the advantage of not being responsible. Hence you can not want pau traded, and later scream he should have been. And it is all Jim's fault... |
If the right basketball choices are not being made, who else could be responsible besides the head of basketball operations? |
I think you missed the point. You get to say "Noooooooo! Don't trade pau" a couple years ago when we heard jim leaned toward moving him, and then 2 years later say, "why didn't jim trade him a couple years ago?", because you're not responsible for making and living with decisions, or even being consistent. By you, I mean fans in general BTW.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| laker4life wrote: | Jim should have realized that the basketball decision should fall on Mitch and anyone else not named Jim.
MDA was simply a disaster. Phil should have been the guy.
Now, we just experienced the worse season in Laker history.
Thank you Jim Buss. |
I think 1957/58 19-53 was the worst in franchise history. This is the worst since moving to Los Angeles.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ch3cky0selff00
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Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| dmorans1 wrote: | | I smell a whole lot of BS left and right. So many conflicting reports on who made this and this decision. Our FO is just a mess. |
That's HARDLY the FO's doing. If you want to blame someone blame the media. It's so difficult to decipher who is speculating and who is reporting actual facts. So many times its the media speculating on what is going on and you guys are SO quick to eat it up because it supports whatever stance you have on a certain situation.
It's for that reason why I don't really put much stock into whatever is reported. It's widely known that the Lakers work in "stealth" mode. Very rarely do they let their intentions be known. Usually something happens and it's like  that was out of left field! |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | salami wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I know. Its the advantage of not being responsible. Hence you can not want pau traded, and later scream he should have been. And it is all Jim's fault... |
If the right basketball choices are not being made, who else could be responsible besides the head of basketball operations? |
I think you missed the point. You get to say "Noooooooo! Don't trade pau" a couple years ago when we heard jim leaned toward moving him, and then 2 years later say, "why didn't jim trade him a couple years ago?", because you're not responsible for making and living with decisions, or even being consistent. By you, I mean fans in general BTW. |
Good point! Extremely valid. But once the decision to keep Pau was made, why did the front office alienate him? It was like they had one foot in and one foot out. Mike brown made Bynum our number 2 option over Pau. We all know the history between MDA and Pau. Pau hasn't been a priority to the front office for years now. Which is foolish given how much money we paid him.
It's only logical, when you invest 15+ mill in a player *annually) make sure you utilize them on the basketball court as much as possible. Funny thing is, if we would've done that Mitch might have gotten a trade offer for Pau that even he couldn't refuse. Then Mitch and Jim would've agreed. |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | salami wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I know. Its the advantage of not being responsible. Hence you can not want pau traded, and later scream he should have been. And it is all Jim's fault... |
If the right basketball choices are not being made, who else could be responsible besides the head of basketball operations? |
I think you missed the point. You get to say "Noooooooo! Don't trade pau" a couple years ago when we heard jim leaned toward moving him, and then 2 years later say, "why didn't jim trade him a couple years ago?", because you're not responsible for making and living with decisions, or even being consistent. By you, I mean fans in general BTW. |
Good point! Extremely valid. But once the decision to keep Pau was made, why did the front office alienate him? It was like they had one foot in and one foot out. Mike brown made Bynum our number 2 option over Pau. We all know the history between MDA and Pau. Pau hasn't been a priority to the front office for years now. Which is foolish given how much money we paid him.
It's only logical, when you invest 15+ mill in a player *annually) make sure you utilize them on the basketball court as much as possible. Funny thing is, if we would've done that Mitch might have gotten a trade offer for Pau that even he couldn't refuse. Then Mitch and Jim would've agreed. |
may surprise you but I agree with the one foot in and out argument. Team should have traded pau when they got Dwight IMO.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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salami
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | salami wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I know. Its the advantage of not being responsible. Hence you can not want pau traded, and later scream he should have been. And it is all Jim's fault... |
If the right basketball choices are not being made, who else could be responsible besides the head of basketball operations? |
I think you missed the point. You get to say "Noooooooo! Don't trade pau" a couple years ago when we heard jim leaned toward moving him, and then 2 years later say, "why didn't jim trade him a couple years ago?", because you're not responsible for making and living with decisions, or even being consistent. By you, I mean fans in general BTW. |
It looks like you are reaching for a way to give Jim a pass for the mistake regarding Pau not being traded. My stance is that it is not good enough for the head of basketball operations to say he was leaning towards doing the right thing 2 years after it was botched.
Jim is ultimately responsible for every basketball decision and blaming the things that go wrong on Mitch or his daddy or whatever else he has lined up is not acceptable.
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IM THE GREATEST HITTER IN THE WORLD!!!1! |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| salami wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | salami wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I know. Its the advantage of not being responsible. Hence you can not want pau traded, and later scream he should have been. And it is all Jim's fault... |
If the right basketball choices are not being made, who else could be responsible besides the head of basketball operations? |
I think you missed the point. You get to say "Noooooooo! Don't trade pau" a couple years ago when we heard jim leaned toward moving him, and then 2 years later say, "why didn't jim trade him a couple years ago?", because you're not responsible for making and living with decisions, or even being consistent. By you, I mean fans in general BTW. |
It looks like you are reaching for a way to give Jim a pass for the mistake regarding Pau not being traded. My stance is that it is not good enough for the head of basketball operations to say he was leaning towards doing the right thing 2 years after it was botched.
Jim is ultimately responsible for every basketball decision and blaming the things that go wrong on Mitch or his daddy or whatever else he has lined up is not acceptable. |
Fair enough. But you have to be consistent. You can't demand something and later demand the opposite and pretend you're being consistent. And you can't give him crap for the down years but not credit for the good.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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K28
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: | Jeanie doesn't handle basketball operations, but is somehow to "blame" for Kobe Bryant's extension. All the good ideas actually belonged to Jim, and the bad ones happened when Mitch tried to intervene.
You people need to see the forest for the trees. You are being played. Like I said....King Joffrey. |
Either you didn't read the article or you have a hard time understanding, if Jeannie wanted Kobe extended it wouldn't matter who was in charge of basketball operations. That has been common knowledge since Kobe was extended, but again, it isn't what you want to believe so you choose not to. And hopefully Jeannie won't be forcing any other personnel-related issues on the team, as she has said, she cannot remove her emotions from her decisions. |
So Jeanie can't remove her emotions from her decisions? Why is that? Because she's a woman? It gets tiresome to hear this chauvinist line of thought from you and others who try to prop up Jim, while tearing down Jeanie.
I read the article and think it's a while lotta bullcrap. It''s a PR piece to try to calm down a fan base which wants Jim out. |
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K28
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: |
And everyone has said that hiring MDA over Phil was Jerry's idea. Funny how you choose to believe the things you want, and believe the opposite of the things you don't. |
Yeah I heard you countlessly repeat this BS, and it's the supposedly the official line of what happened. But it defies credibility on several levels.
Doctor Buss was terminally ill at the time and bedridden. Some reports have said he was possibly comatose.
How does someone that gravely ill make a monumental decision on not just firing the current coach, but also choosing his successor (after only a telephone interview LOL). It is also on the record that the only ones who interviewed D'Antoni were Mitch and Jim.
Choosing D'Antoni over Phil was a monumentally unpopular move...and really the only way to sell it was to blame it on ODB. Jimbo obviously lacks the cojones to own it. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| dmorans1 wrote: | | I smell a whole lot of BS left and right. So many conflicting reports on who made this and this decision. Our FO is just a mess. |
Our front office is fine. All that happened is we won a bunch of rings and we got old. But because Lakers fans think it's our God given right to be in the finals, many fans are confused and looking for someone to blame. So " JImbo" is an easy person to blame.
And you know what? Go for it -hate him. Feel that life has betrayed you. Cause it will be a handy warmup for the real problems that will eventually come your way. And I am not being cynical or joking. Most people have a need to blame.
My view -- which I grant is a minority one -- is nothing is wrong. It's just that our sense of entitlement is being assaulted. Personally, I expect the Lakers to be irrelevant for 3-4 years. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ch3cky0selff00 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | I smell a whole lot of BS left and right. So many conflicting reports on who made this and this decision. Our FO is just a mess. |
That's HARDLY the FO's doing. If you want to blame someone blame the media. It's so difficult to decipher who is speculating and who is reporting actual facts. So many times its the media speculating on what is going on and you guys are SO quick to eat it up because it supports whatever stance you have on a certain situation.
It's for that reason why I don't really put much stock into whatever is reported. It's widely known that the Lakers work in "stealth" mode. Very rarely do they let their intentions be known. Usually something happens and it's like that was out of left field! |
Bingo. And it's for that reason that the media isn't really to blame. The media simply serves the masses. The masses crave drama and gossip, and the more exaggerated, the more enjoyable. If there weren't people who take the media reports at face value and run with them as fact, there'd be no motivation for the media to run each other over with the next "scoop" from "sources".
The media isn't to blame. It's the masses who think that if they see it on Twitter, it must be true. The media is simply meeting the market demand for rampant speculation. It's for that reason you can't blame the media. They are simply doing their job - exploiting the masses by manipulating the gullible and the toying withy the malleable. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| kray28_ wrote: |
So Jeanie can't remove her emotions from her decisions? Why is that? Because she's a woman? It gets tiresome to hear this chauvinist line of thought from you and others who try to prop up Jim, while tearing down Jeanie. |
Here's the perfect example of people spewing their own BS to suit their agenda.
Jeanie has LONG been on record as saying exactly that - She's been the first to say that she shouldn't make personnel decisions because she does so based on emotions. And that is why she herself knows she shouldn't be in that position.
So you are either ill informed to the point your input is questionable, or you are intentionally ignoring well know facts to serve your agenda.
Either way. You don't get to point any fingers. |
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LAL4K3RS
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Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Jesus Crust, give me 3-4 years and I can make the Lakers a gd contender. This is about the stupidest thing I have heard Jim say to date.
I think with Jim we will get 2-3 high draft picks over the next 4 years...
that is about all I see with him being a total tool.
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This Laker Organization has not yet hit bottom. It is moving there quickly, and I suspect this year we will see zero talent coming to the Lakers and we will trade away Kuz and BI for old vets in the hopes of giving LeBronze some scapegoats. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I've always been suspicious as to how much say Jim has had in personnel decisions. That is to say, I've always felt like he had more than he let on. Like if he and Mitch were split on something, Jim had final say. This article's two contentions don't exactly allay that suspicion. Okay, so Mitch is the primary decision maker, a fact which would seem to minimize Jim's input. But then, Jim is the one who will step down if the team isn't contending in a few years? Doesn't that smack of someone who's the primary decision-maker? It all feels a little double-speaky... |
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Laker_Town
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | Haven't read all the posts in this thread, if this is redundant please forgive me.
This jumped off the page at me
| Quote: | There's no doubt, though, who has the final say in the team's day-to-day operations, according to the family trust set up by their father.
"If Jeanie and I got into a disagreement, Jeanie can overrule my argument," Jim said. "If she is adamant about the way she wants to do things, all she has to do is say, 'That's the way it's going to be.' But I don't anticipate those kind of arguments. We're two smart people and we respect each other. We're grown up enough to where we can talk things out." |
If Jeanie has that much power I puzzle as to why didn't she put it in play and hire Phil? |
She didnt have that power when dr buss, who hired mda, was alive.
Now that she has thst power, i think she gets rid of mda. She says she listens to the fans, so she knows the backlash |
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laker4life
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Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7320
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | salami wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I know. Its the advantage of not being responsible. Hence you can not want pau traded, and later scream he should have been. And it is all Jim's fault... |
If the right basketball choices are not being made, who else could be responsible besides the head of basketball operations? |
I think you missed the point. You get to say "Noooooooo! Don't trade pau" a couple years ago when we heard jim leaned toward moving him, and then 2 years later say, "why didn't jim trade him a couple years ago?", because you're not responsible for making and living with decisions, or even being consistent. By you, I mean fans in general BTW. |
ok. thanks for the clarification.
Still bad.
the worse since the Jerry Buss era and it coincides with his death.
the timing is not coincidental. |
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: |
So Jeanie can't remove her emotions from her decisions? Why is that? Because she's a woman? It gets tiresome to hear this chauvinist line of thought from you and others who try to prop up Jim, while tearing down Jeanie. |
Here's the perfect example of people spewing their own BS to suit their agenda.
Jeanie has LONG been on record as saying exactly that - She's been the first to say that she shouldn't make personnel decisions because she does so based on emotions. And that is why she herself knows she shouldn't be in that position. |
Not only that but you have quite a bit of evidence just in the past year. From her book where she said things that made business matters public and personal, to the petty things like Liking someone saying that D'antoni needed to be fired. She's a human being, she's going to have those emotions. But to put them out in public just isn't smart business. She is a smart person, but she let her emotions get the better of her. |
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laker50
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Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:18 am Post subject: LA is now Clippers town |
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The Lakers had better open their eyes.
They can only live with so many mistakes before they will be history.
The Clippers are developing the drama that the Lakers used to have.
Was Paul fouled?
The Clippers are the only BB pro game in town now.
Who wants to watch a loser? Jim buss should resign before it is too late. |
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av3773
Star Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3752
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| I think that is pretty reasonable, I don't see how folks can continue to hate on JB when he basically willingly put his reputation/job on the line. It would take anyone a few more years to right this ship, at the very list we know JB is committing to winning, his standard is that we reach the pinnacle again, that's good enough for me. |
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K28
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:43 am Post subject: Re: LA is now Clippers town |
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| laker50 wrote: | The Lakers had better open their eyes.
They can only live with so many mistakes before they will be history.
The Clippers are developing the drama that the Lakers used to have.
Was Paul fouled?
The Clippers are the only BB pro game in town now.
Who wants to watch a loser? Jim buss should resign before it is too late. |
It's painful to acknowledge this, but it's true. If pro basketball is alive in LA right now, it's through the Clippers. What we couldn't and wouldn't admit even a year ago...it's totally and undeniably true now, and the first person I blame is Fredo Buss. |
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K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | kray28_ wrote: |
So Jeanie can't remove her emotions from her decisions? Why is that? Because she's a woman? It gets tiresome to hear this chauvinist line of thought from you and others who try to prop up Jim, while tearing down Jeanie. |
Here's the perfect example of people spewing their own BS to suit their agenda.
Jeanie has LONG been on record as saying exactly that - She's been the first to say that she shouldn't make personnel decisions because she does so based on emotions. And that is why she herself knows she shouldn't be in that position.
So you are either ill informed to the point your input is questionable, or you are intentionally ignoring well know facts to serve your agenda.
Either way. You don't get to point any fingers. |
I'll point fingers and do whatever I please.
If you're implying that I am advocating for Jeanie to take over Jim's position. I am not. I think Jeanie (if she truly is in charge as she claims), needs to fire Jim, and replace him with a professional personnel guy.....someone to help Mitch rebuild the team.
Continuing along those lines of thought, the charge that she's "too emotional", if true, would probably affect her performance on the business side too. But it actually doesn't. She had capably performed that role for years now.
A reasonable course of action in my opinion...."fire" Jim, and go beg Jerry West to come back and help craft a consistent plan for how to rebuild a winning team in this new NBA, starting with the hiring of a new coach, and a new talent evaluation staff. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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Location: The X-Files
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:54 am Post subject: Re: LA Times Article: Buss family faces crucial moment with the Lakers |
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| akk7 wrote: | Didn't see it posted. If it was, delete the thread. It's a good article, giving us more insight about the family dynamic. However, most of this is already known.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakers-buss-family-20140420,0,3659636.story#ixzz2zNcLaCat
Interesting points for me
1) Jeanie was the main reason for the Kobe extension
2) Jim didn't mind trading Pau, Mitch didn't want to
3) Mitch gets his way the majority of the time. More than most people think. The whole Jim is holding us back thing doesn't match up with this article.
4) Jim is willing to step down in 3-4 years if they aren't contending. He's that confident they will be back at it. Doesn't match up with the whole Jim Buss has an ego. |
As to #4, if we interchange "ego" with "confidence" then it DOES match up.... the concept here is that to have "ego" one would need to be self "confident"....
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Last edited by LA_Lakers_Rule on Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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K28
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Again, if you think Jim doesn't have an ego, and isn't deeply insecure about how hated he is by the fanbase, read this:
Lakers' Jim Buss isn't who you think he is
| Quote: | The Steve Nash and Dwight Howard bombshells after the 2011 home-run trade for Chris Paul barely sailed foul have reassured many fans that Buss is more than some case study in nepotism who still wears a baseball cap everywhere and Phil Jackson derided for sleeping in.
"It comes with not knowing me – and the uncertainty," Buss said. "Laker fans are passionate about the game. They want to know who's going to help lead this team to championships. And that's what I do: I help lead the team to championships." |
Notice the implication that this is what he does...as is, he's already done it. Basically taking credit for the 2009 and 2010 championships. |
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av3773
Star Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3752
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Buss knows the next 2 years will cement his legacy if he pulls us through, the mantra from the FO has been about building up to the next couple of seasons if we are well on the path by then everyone will be singing a different tune. Mitch and Jim are right they have to use their cap space wisely even if that means one more painful season. I think they will go for it if they can, but if the pitch isn't there i see some more positional moves on the way to get younger, to keep our flexibility moving forward a lot seems to be riding on the lotto and where we end up, whom might be available, that's going to influence everything trade scenarios, coaching decisions, personnel choices so lets see how it goes, I am not much for this FA class outside of Bron (pipe) and I hope MK might find a way to leverage Paus desire to go to a contender for a longer term deal |
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laker4life
Star Player
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7320
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: Re: LA is now Clippers town |
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| laker50 wrote: | The Lakers had better open their eyes.
They can only live with so many mistakes before they will be history.
The Clippers are developing the drama that the Lakers used to have.
Was Paul fouled?
The Clippers are the only BB pro game in town now.
Who wants to watch a loser? Jim buss should resign before it is too late. |
Just look at the Dodger. After it went through all of those changes with ownership, they never went to another world series.
Success can be fleeting. Jerry Buss provided the map but their son is driving in the wrong direction. |
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