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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17105
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 Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| _#1_ wrote: | | Dr. Laker - much of the hate still flows from the rabid Kobe fanbase about somethings that Kobe himself gave up on years ago, the book and the Shaq dynamic. |
No sir. I'm President and CEO of the Kobe Lovers Crew - none of us are banging on Phil.
As wolfpack put it, there's no denying that Phil is a basketball genius. No, he hasn't held the title of GM but he farts more knowledge about building a winning team than 90% of the people who are paid to assemble them.
"He wanted to trade Kobe for Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion!" - so? How do you know we wouldn't have 5-peated because of better team chemistry?
Dr. Buss wanted to trade James Worthy for Roy Tarpley and Mark Aguirre.
Red Auerbach wanted to trade (the pick that netted) McHale and Parish for Ralph Sampson.
The Sonics agreed to trade Shawn Kemp for Scottie Pippen in 94, but George Karl blocked it.
Were Dr. Buss, Red Auerbach and George Karl idiots?
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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K2
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 23529
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: |
"He wanted to trade Kobe for Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion!" - so? How do you know we wouldn't have 5-peated because of better team chemistry?
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In retrospect, Shawn Marion and Jason Kidd did eventually get a ring together and had Mark Cuban not dismantled the team, maybe they could've earned a chance at another ring. In their prime, maybe it could've worked out better than expected for Phil after all. |
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Poseidon44
Sixth Man
Joined: 23 Apr 2014
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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When NY hired Phil, I was amused at all the hatred towards Jim Buss - like it was HIS fault for not stepping aside and handing his job title over to his future brother-in-law. LOL...okay.
Imagine if you ran a FAMILY BUSINESS and your sister married one of the employees. Would you step down from ownership/president position and make him the boss?
I swear 95% of Lakers fans think with their hearts instead of their heads. |
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postandpivot
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Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Which GM will rebuild thier teams faster, Mitch Kupchak or Phil Jackson? |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | Suckmaki Walker wrote: | | Which do you think will put the better team on on the floor 3 years from now? |
the knicks/phil dont have to deal with crazed fans forcing their hand to make moves for RIGHT NOW. so they can take their time to clear the books and wait on superstar FA's all the while sucking just enough to get young promising rooks on the cheap. cheap high pick rooks and star FA's = great team(at least on paper).
because the lakers crazed fanbase. management always has to teeter on rebuild vs reload. that can cause issues if things happened like they did for us this last time. nixed trades, old guys dropping like flies. |
Clearly you don't live in NY. |
i'll say it again. NY fans will take the crap for longer because they're use to it. sure they wanted to pitch fork the knicks this past season. but thats only after how many years of mediocre play even with a superstar player on the team? how many years have the knicks been irrelevant before melo? what pat and starks? i mean come on now. and they are still making tons of money.
let the lakers suck that bad for 20+ years and have not won a title in 40 years. let that happen to the lakers and watch what happens to their bottom line. we will stop going to games. we will stop wearing the gear, etc, etc. knicks fans are idiots for going to those games after 20 years of losing. they should've stopped showing up. THEN the ownership would've been forced to change some things earlier. see there's nothing crazy about that approach from a fans perspective.
now when fans go nuts cause a team doesnt win it all every .. single...year. thats when i call fans "crazed fans"
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LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
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laker50
Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:54 pm Post subject: Phil is not afraid to make changes |
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While Kupchak is handcuffed by Jim Buss.
So what do you think?
When has the Lakers made a move in the last 3 years that helped the team?
A layman who doesn't know basketball could do a better job.
Why? Common sense. the Lakers are not the Mecca of basketball anymore and stars are NOT waiting in line to play for the Lakers.
Money talks and so does draft picks. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Which GM will rebuild thier teams faster, Mitch Kupchak or Phil Jackson? |
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| postandpivot wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | Suckmaki Walker wrote: | | Which do you think will put the better team on on the floor 3 years from now? |
the knicks/phil dont have to deal with crazed fans forcing their hand to make moves for RIGHT NOW. so they can take their time to clear the books and wait on superstar FA's all the while sucking just enough to get young promising rooks on the cheap. cheap high pick rooks and star FA's = great team(at least on paper).
because the lakers crazed fanbase. management always has to teeter on rebuild vs reload. that can cause issues if things happened like they did for us this last time. nixed trades, old guys dropping like flies. |
Clearly you don't live in NY. |
i'll say it again. NY fans will take the crap for longer because they're use to it. sure they wanted to pitch fork the knicks this past season. but thats only after how many years of mediocre play even with a superstar player on the team? how many years have the knicks been irrelevant before melo? what pat and starks? i mean come on now. and they are still making tons of money.
let the lakers suck that bad for 20+ years and have not won a title in 40 years. let that happen to the lakers and watch what happens to their bottom line. we will stop going to games. we will stop wearing the gear, etc, etc. knicks fans are idiots for going to those games after 20 years of losing. they should've stopped showing up. THEN the ownership would've been forced to change some things earlier. see there's nothing crazy about that approach from a fans perspective.
now when fans go nuts cause a team doesnt win it all every .. single...year. thats when i call fans "crazed fans" |
I feel sad for them. Whenever I proudly wear my Lakers gear, they laugh at our miserable season. Then I just say one thing: 40 years. Then they walk away with their head down. 
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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mugwump
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Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 970
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| Poseidon44 wrote: |
Imagine if you ran a FAMILY BUSINESS and your sister married one of the employees. Would you step down from ownership/president position and make him the boss? |
Yeah, when your sister marries Bill Gates and the horse jockey brother is running the family business into a brick wall, you get him removed.
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"At the end of the day, you are what your record says that you are." --Mitch Kupchak |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67622
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Which GM will rebuild thier teams faster, Mitch Kupchak or Phil Jackson? |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | Suckmaki Walker wrote: | | Which do you think will put the better team on on the floor 3 years from now? |
the knicks/phil dont have to deal with crazed fans forcing their hand to make moves for RIGHT NOW. so they can take their time to clear the books and wait on superstar FA's all the while sucking just enough to get young promising rooks on the cheap. cheap high pick rooks and star FA's = great team(at least on paper).
because the lakers crazed fanbase. management always has to teeter on rebuild vs reload. that can cause issues if things happened like they did for us this last time. nixed trades, old guys dropping like flies. |
Clearly you don't live in NY. |
No shucky ducky! New York fans are almost as bad a Philly fans. They're ride with you through thick and thin but will boo Santa Clause.
Knicks hadn't been to the playoffs in 10 years, till 2013, yet they rank high in attendance yearly. The Lakers fall off for two years and their attendance dips with them.
I give the Lakers the edge on rebuilding faster. Both Mitch and Phil have owners that are going to interfere. The Lakers have a much better chance of getting quality FA because they'll have more cap space sooner.
If Jim gets out of Mitch's way we'll be competitive next season, contender in 2016.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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foshowtime
Star Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2012
Posts: 4448
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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If Casual Fans, Kobe, Jeanie and that crowd get out of the way then Mitch definitely!!
Lakers need to get young superstars with Kobe as an aging part; but team cannot be built around Kobe and other old guys. |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67622
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| foshowtime wrote: | If Casual Fans, Kobe, Jeanie and that crowd get out of the way then Mitch definitely!!
Lakers need to get young superstars with Kobe as an aging part; but team cannot be built around Kobe and other old guys. |
Do you mean Jim? Jeanie will gladly step to the left and let Mitch do his job.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29059
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Even if Phil wasn't in such a huge hole, roster/cap-wise, I would give Mitch the significant edge. |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67622
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Even if Phil wasn't in such a huge hole, roster/cap-wise, I would give Mitch the significant edge. |
Of course, experience definitely gives Mitch the edge, been there, done that. Phil's a rookie.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Nordvader
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Posts: 1662
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| foshowtime wrote: | If Casual Fans, Kobe, Jeanie and that crowd get out of the way then Mitch definitely!!
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So now were trying to conceal the "Real Laker Fan" stuff by calling others casual fans now pretty creative. |
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deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14904
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Poseidon44 wrote: | When NY hired Phil, I was amused at all the hatred towards Jim Buss - like it was HIS fault for not stepping aside and handing his job title over to his future brother-in-law. LOL...okay.
Imagine if you ran a FAMILY BUSINESS and your sister married one of the employees. Would you step down from ownership/president position and make him the boss?
I swear 95% of Lakers fans think with their hearts instead of their heads. |
Jim did not need the NY Phil hiring to be hated on...it's been a constant... |
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mastersworddude
Star Player
Joined: 25 Aug 2012
Posts: 1937
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Phil isn't a GM. |
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USCandLakers
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 19955
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| mastersworddude wrote: | | Phil isn't a GM. |
This.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | “I think [there is] a precedent that’s been set,” Jackson said of stars taking less money to join or remain with contending teams. “Because the way things have been structured now financially for teams is that it’s really hard to have one or two top stars or max players, and to put together a team with enough talent, you’ve got to have people making sacrifices financially.
“So we hope that Carmelo is true to his word and we understand what it’s going to take, and we will present that to him at that time.” … |
LOOKS LIKE PHIL WOULDNT HAVE PAID KOBE AS MUCH AS WE DID IF HE WAS IN CHARGE
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/23/phil-jackson-wants-carmelo-anthony-to-take-less-money-to-re-sign-with-knicks/
to some, these comments make Kobe look bad. lol |
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MIMLaker
Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 10015
Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Phil has the direction (philosophy/ strategy) and resources ($$$), but not the cooperation (ownership).
Mitch has the resources and presumably the cooperation, but not the direction.
It's too bad these two didn't have a shot to come together. Oh, WAIT...
MIM
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Keep or Dump Power Rankings (4/12/23):
1 - Bron; 1a - AD; 2 - Reaves; 2a - DLo; 3 - Vando; 4 - Rui; 5 - Shroo; 6 - Christie; 7- Brown; 8 - Gabriel; 9 - Beas; 10 - Bamba; 11- Lonnie |
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deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14904
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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All through PJ is not the GM, it does seem he will lead the charge to rebuild the Knicks, same as Jim (& Mitch) the Lakers.
Lakers have Nash and Kobe on the books next season, so rebuilding will be tough. Nash comes off the following season but Kobe remains taking up a big chuck of the cap.
That second year, the Knicks have very little on the books so, if PJ plays his cards right he could push rebuilding a year sooner than the Lakers. That said, the Knicks may be the front runners to build a decent team....
No one really knows but an interesting topic all the same.... |
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Black Salt
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 2204
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Poseidon44 wrote: | When NY hired Phil, I was amused at all the hatred towards Jim Buss - like it was HIS fault for not stepping aside and handing his job title over to his future brother-in-law. LOL...okay.
Imagine if you ran a FAMILY BUSINESS and your sister married one of the employees. Would you step down from ownership/president position and make him the boss?
I swear 95% of Lakers fans think with their hearts instead of their heads. |
Great point, but it will fall on deaf ears. Laker fans, generally believe everything they read or hear. And almost all things in the media is dramatized for ratings purposes. They did the SAME exact thing to Mitch for 3 years until he made them all eat (bleep) by getting Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and draft picks. Laker fans have no concept of business or common sense. I mean, Laker fans demanded that Jim step aside and give the franchise to a man who his own father didnt like. So many are in denial with that.
It doesnt matter, Lakers are the Lakers, they will be in championship contention within the next two years at the latest and everyone will get back to their regularly programmed show of losing their 14th game in february and wanting all the role players traded by the deadline after a loss to the Bobcats on a back to back. |
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foshowtime
Star Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2012
Posts: 4448
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | foshowtime wrote: | If Casual Fans, Kobe, Jeanie and that crowd get out of the way then Mitch definitely!!
Lakers need to get young superstars with Kobe as an aging part; but team cannot be built around Kobe and other old guys. |
Do you mean Jim? Jeanie will gladly step to the left and let Mitch do his job. |
I read that Jeanie was the main proponent for the Kobe K. |
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foshowtime
Star Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2012
Posts: 4448
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Nordvader wrote: | | foshowtime wrote: | If Casual Fans, Kobe, Jeanie and that crowd get out of the way then Mitch definitely!!
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So now were trying to conceal the "Real Laker Fan" stuff by calling others casual fans now pretty creative. |
By casual fans, I mean those bandwagon fans that missed most of the games this year and yet insist on repeating the same thoughtless rhetoric that everyone else says.
This is not meant to say someone is a real Lakers fan if they agree with Mitch or not. |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| mugwump wrote: | | Poseth44 wrote: |
Imagine if you ran a FAMILY BUSINESS and your sister married one of the employees. Would you step down from ownership/president position and make him the boss? |
Yeah, when your sister marries Bill Gates and the horse jockey brother is running the family business into a brick wall, you get him removed. |
This is funny!
If Bill Gates was running the Lakers, it would be run like Dan Gilbert or James Dolan!! |
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wsjan
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| CandyCanes wrote: | | Mitch>Phil but Mitch + Jimbo<Phil |
Mitch>Phil>Mitch+Jim Buss>Phil+James Dolan
| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | This is funny!
If Bill Gates was running the Lakers, it would be run like Dan Gilbert or James Dolan!! |
Nah...Bill Gates is pretty hands-off on his company Microsoft.
He's a genius so he'll let people who know the business do their things. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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There's no reason to speculate, Phil said on an interview that he would have paid bryant less, but definitely kept him despite the injury. Said Kobe is that player that refuses to accept 2nd place and all teams need that.
Now at the time I thought well yeah, easy for an outsider to say that, but now he is doing it to a guy in his prime with prime years ahead not like Kobe, even, in Melo. So I think safe assumption Phil would have tried to convince Bryant to take 15 M or so instead.
In this CBA gonna be awfully hard to win via free agency if you sign your guys to 22-24-26 M type of contracts. Different if you have the talent in place and then you can trade (say Houston or Portland). lakers and Knicks can not afford to pay stars 22-23-25 m and then realistically expect championship talent ready success via free agency. |
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