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King beef
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 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | I know it's early in the off season and I have no doubt at all that there will be dozens of worse trades proposed than this one.
But this one should be Top Ten worst come next September!
nice work...! |
Its funny, the Lakers couldnt get a late first round pick for Pau. We only got offered second rounders. But this is a bad trade?
You are entitled to your opinion but explain that. |
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unleasHell
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| King beef wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | I know it's early in the off season and I have no doubt at all that there will be dozens of worse trades proposed than this one.
But this one should be Top Ten worst come next September!
nice work...! |
Its funny, the Lakers couldnt get a late first round pick for Pau. We only got offered second rounders. But this is a bad trade?
You are entitled to your opinion but explain that. |
Simple Math:
Perkins Salary in 2014/15 = $9,154,342
Pau Salary in 2014/15 = $0,000,000
_________________
“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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King beef
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | | King beef wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | I know it's early in the off season and I have no doubt at all that there will be dozens of worse trades proposed than this one.
But this one should be Top Ten worst come next September!
nice work...! |
Its funny, the Lakers couldnt get a late first round pick for Pau. We only got offered second rounders. But this is a bad trade?
You are entitled to your opinion but explain that. |
Simple Math:
Perkins Salary in 2014/15 = $9,154,342
Pau Salary in 2014/15 = $0,000,000 |
I get it. You are a "he puts butts in seats" fan. You don't worry about on court aspects, you just want to make sure management gets paid.
Come on man, who cares what we pay if we are way under the cap and maintain flexibility for 2015. |
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81
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Pau is a free agent, so there's no way anything can be agreed upon until July. Even if he wants to go there, I think it would take more than whomever OKC takes with that pick to facilitate a deal. Using 9+mm on Perkins is not how I think the Lakers want to spend their cap space--even if they're looking toward 2015. |
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WindyCityLakerFan
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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I could see something like this going down now that Perkins is in the last year of his contract. I kind of believed they would have amnestied him but the owner didnt want to. The bulls are trying to trade boozer because Reisnsdof doesn't want to pay him via the amnesty clause.
http://nba.si.com/2014/04/30/carlos-boozer-chicago-boozer-trade-amnesty-report/
Looks like the Lakers will have a few teams trying to peddle off contracts on them so they should be able to obtain a few assets. In chicago they are saying Noah and Tibs are going to be recruiting Melo. the lakers can take both but I guess it would take both first round picks |
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Cup-of-noodles
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:35 am Post subject: |
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a2j1m
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Joined: 06 May 2013
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Thunder get:
Sign and trade Pau Gasol 3yr 30m
For
Lakers get:
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Jeremy Lamb
21st overall pick from Dallas
Maybe we can get OKC 1st as well |
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philipm35
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| King beef wrote: | | rock0100 wrote: | | Mini Mamba wrote: | If we make the playoffs this year then Phoenix wouldn't have a lottery pick from us next year.
I don't want to see us go through another terrible season.
Also I think Gasol is worth more than Perkins and a 1st this year. I'd want either Perkins, a 2014 1st, and a 2015 1st or Perkins and Jackson. |
Perkins and Jackson would be an excellent deal. Then sign Lance Stepenson and one year rentals. We would be competitive next year with Jackson, Lance, Kobe and the lotto pick. We wouldnt make the finals or anything but we wont get there with any moves we make this summer.
At least this way we get a very good young PG and cap space next summer to go after Love. |
I agree with you, especially in principle. A first rounder or a young PG like Reggie Jackson is equally as good for where the Lakers are as an organization right now. I would want a caviat though. If the Lakers covet a particular player in the draft at the #21 pick and OKC could get that player, forget Jackson and take the pick.
Like I said, I have a hard time believing OKC would turn this deal down strictly because OKC is shooting for a title. |
Jackson will be Russell's PG permanently, or the backup plan if Russell leaves as a FA, so I don't see them shipping Jackson to anyone, particularly with Fisher retiring at the end of the year and Jackson playing bigger minutes in the playoffs now.
And the #21 pick won't be what we need to fast track this rebuild.
Lakers will likely get nothing for Pau just as they got nothing for D12.
Which is actually why people want to trade Pau, more than anything.
But if they do no re-sign Pau, he can walk, and if they ask him to take a fifty percent pay cut to come back and be the starting PF/C, I don't see how he comes back when another team will give him $10m per year, somewhere. |
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dmorans1
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Pau to OKC for Perkins, Dallas pick, and OKC pick.
Then from Chicago absorb Boozer with their pick and Bobcats pick. |
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King beef
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| dmorans1 wrote: | Pau to OKC for Perkins, Dallas pick, and OKC pick.
Then from Chicago absorb Boozer with their pick and Bobcats pick. |
After watching game two (S.A. vs OKC), The Lakers should ask for both of OKCs first rounders. Right now, OKC would give them up in a New York Second. |
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King beef
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| a2j1m wrote: | Thunder get:
Sign and trade Pau Gasol 3yr 30m
For
Lakers get:
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Jeremy Lamb
21st overall pick from Dallas
Maybe we can get OKC 1st as well |
Forget Collison. But if anyone is watching the WCF, OKC needs a low post back to the basket scorer really badly.
I agree with you, we should try for both OKC first rounders. For what OKC wants to accomplish, they should be ready and willing to get a player like Pau. |
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Mini Mamba
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| King beef wrote: | | a2j1m wrote: | Thunder get:
Sign and trade Pau Gasol 3yr 30m
For
Lakers get:
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Jeremy Lamb
21st overall pick from Dallas
Maybe we can get OKC 1st as well |
Forget Collison. But if anyone is watching the WCF, OKC needs a low post back to the basket scorer really badly.
I agree with you, we should try for both OKC first rounders. For what OKC wants to accomplish, they should be ready and willing to get a player like Pau. |
I don't want Perkins. If Milwaukee drafts Embiid #2 I'd offer them Perkins and a 1st for Sanders.
Milwaukee would save a lot of money and get another pick while we get a C who can play defense and block shots. |
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chekmatex4
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Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I approve this trade. Perkins and Nash both expire next year leaving more cap space to pursue new free agents. |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| a2j1m wrote: | Thunder get:
Sign and trade Pau Gasol 3yr 30m
For
Lakers get:
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Jeremy Lamb
21st overall pick from Dallas
Maybe we can get OKC 1st as well |
No chance at Collison. OKC loves him.
If OKC was smart, they'd trade Perkins and whatever picks they can scrounge up for Pau. He'd make them one of the favorites, maybe the favorite. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Collison is a FA anyway.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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King beef
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | a2j1m wrote: | Thunder get:
Sign and trade Pau Gasol 3yr 30m
For
Lakers get:
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Jeremy Lamb
21st overall pick from Dallas
Maybe we can get OKC 1st as well |
No chance at Collison. OKC loves him.
If OKC was smart, they'd trade Perkins and whatever picks they can scrounge up for Pau. He'd make them one of the favorites, maybe the favorite. |
It is rare that a trade goes down that benefits both teams given what each respective organization is trying to accomplish. If OKC doesnt win the title, they make changes and OKC has one glaring deficiency. They have no back to the basket players and no consistent third option.
I initially said the Lakers should ask for the 21st pick and Perkins. The Lakers should hold out for the 21st and 29th from OKC. And they should think about a sign and trade with Chicago for the 16th and 19th.
Teams like OKC and Chicago need to win now. Those teams are not about developing talent. |
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Ott
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Horrible question, horrible reasoning. think before your type. |
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Steve007
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Posts: 13227
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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People don't want the first round pick? On this forum I see constant complaining about how the team keeps trading away first round picks. "Waaaaaa!" We traded picks for a 39 year old PG! Waaaaa! We traded away Derek Fisher and a pick for a young PG that could start for our team!! Waaaaaa!"
Now someone brings up trading for a first round pick, and we get to give up an old, washed up player and people are saying no? The team could have two top 21 picks in a deep draft and people laugh at this deal? What happened to all the folks that were angry that this team keeps giving away picks?
Last edited by Steve007 on Fri May 23, 2014 9:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Also to those saying get two picks, remember only an idiot like Mitch would trade two first round picks for an old player, so obviously OKC will say no to an old player like Gasol for two picks.
This thread bothers me because I've seen constant complaining about how trading away first round picks will kill a team. So why is having two first round picks in the same year not a big deal? |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| King beef wrote: | | a2j1m wrote: | Thunder get:
Sign and trade Pau Gasol 3yr 30m
For
Lakers get:
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Jeremy Lamb
21st overall pick from Dallas
Maybe we can get OKC 1st as well |
Forget Collison. But if anyone is watching the WCF, OKC needs a low post back to the basket scorer really badly.
I agree with you, we should try for both OKC first rounders. For what OKC wants to accomplish, they should be ready and willing to get a player like Pau. |
Gasol hasn't shown that he can be a reliable scorer in the playoffs since 2010. Now 5 years later he is going to show up for the postseason? I'm not buying it. If I were OKC I'd laugh at the idea of giving up two first round picks for an old, slow player who can't play D and is soft. However, MAYBE they would give up one and if they would, I'd make the trade. |
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King beef
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | King beef wrote: | | a2j1m wrote: | Thunder get:
Sign and trade Pau Gasol 3yr 30m
For
Lakers get:
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Jeremy Lamb
21st overall pick from Dallas
Maybe we can get OKC 1st as well |
Forget Collison. But if anyone is watching the WCF, OKC needs a low post back to the basket scorer really badly.
I agree with you, we should try for both OKC first rounders. For what OKC wants to accomplish, they should be ready and willing to get a player like Pau. |
Gasol hasn't shown that he can be a reliable scorer in the playoffs since 2010. Now 5 years later he is going to show up for the postseason? I'm not buying it. If I were OKC I'd laugh at the idea of giving up two first round picks for an old, slow player who can't play D and is soft. However, MAYBE they would give up one and if they would, I'd make the trade. |
Gasol averaged 17ppg/10rpg last year. If Gasol were to go to OKC, he would be the third option on offense and the fourth or fifth best player on the team. Even the term "reliable scorer" on OKC is relative because OKC has no back to the basket players, at the same time they have two great scorers. I don't think OKC would really want Gasol to score a bunch of points like the Lakers needed him to do. I think OKC would want the threat of a low post player in order to implement an inside/out game and manufacture easier baskets.
The role Gasol plays on OKC as the third option is different than the role Gasol had with the Lakers as the second option, very different.
Lastly, you call Gasol slow and old, watch the labels. Labels are used by lazy people who don't want to think. 17ppg/10rpg is fringe all star numbers. Furthermore, Gasol has a skill set for a big man that would allow him to thrive for many more years as a third option in the NBA.
Here is why the Lakers hold out for two first rounders. Mind you, initially I thought the 21st pick was enough. But the Lakers have the ability to take on salary and the tax for a small market team like OKC matters (they let Harden go because they didn't want to pay him or the tax). Gasol is a perfect piece for OKC IMHO and we could take on some money so they avoid additional penalities. Gasol may not be worth 2 first rounders, but the deal as a whole is worth a mid and late first rounder. I would not be mad with a mid first and early second either. |
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Steve007
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13227
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| King beef wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | King beef wrote: | | a2j1m wrote: | Thunder get:
Sign and trade Pau Gasol 3yr 30m
For
Lakers get:
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Jeremy Lamb
21st overall pick from Dallas
Maybe we can get OKC 1st as well |
Forget Collison. But if anyone is watching the WCF, OKC needs a low post back to the basket scorer really badly.
I agree with you, we should try for both OKC first rounders. For what OKC wants to accomplish, they should be ready and willing to get a player like Pau. |
Gasol hasn't shown that he can be a reliable scorer in the playoffs since 2010. Now 5 years later he is going to show up for the postseason? I'm not buying it. If I were OKC I'd laugh at the idea of giving up two first round picks for an old, slow player who can't play D and is soft. However, MAYBE they would give up one and if they would, I'd make the trade. |
Gasol averaged 17ppg/10rpg last year. If Gasol were to go to OKC, he would be the third option on offense and the fourth or fifth best player on the team. Even the term "reliable scorer" on OKC is relative because OKC has no back to the basket players, at the same time they have two great scorers. I don't think OKC would really want Gasol to score a bunch of points like the Lakers needed him to do. I think OKC would want the threat of a low post player in order to implement an inside/out game and manufacture easier baskets.
The role Gasol plays on OKC as the third option is different than the role Gasol had with the Lakers as the second option, very different.
Lastly, you call Gasol slow and old, watch the labels. Labels are used by lazy people who don't want to think. 17ppg/10rpg is fringe all star numbers. Furthermore, Gasol has a skill set for a big man that would allow him to thrive for many more years as a third option in the NBA.
Here is why the Lakers hold out for two first rounders. Mind you, initially I thought the 21st pick was enough. But the Lakers have the ability to take on salary and the tax for a small market team like OKC matters (they let Harden go because they didn't want to pay him or the tax). Gasol is a perfect piece for OKC IMHO and we could take on some money so they avoid additional penalities. Gasol may not be worth 2 first rounders, but the deal as a whole is worth a mid and late first rounder. I would not be mad with a mid first and early second either. |
Your comments sound a lot like the comments people used to justify the Nash trade, which you were a huge critic of. "Nash put up good numbers. Nash will have an easier job playing with bigger stars. Nash will be used in this way." I'm just not buying it. One reason OKC has been successful is they loaded up on young talent. So why would they trade for a 34 year old PF that missed 55 games the last two seasons?
I've seen many comments from people saying he is a poor defender and has slowed down. His offensive numbers are inflated from playing in a Mike D'Antoni system. He averaged 17 ppg but did that on more fg attemps per game than he ever had in his career as a Laker. The year before this season, he averaged 13 ppg. His shooting numbers and free throw attempts have declined significantly. He turns the ball over more than he ever did as a Laker in the past. His win shares declined drastically. His offensive rating last season was the lowest of his career, and this year it's even lower.
We'll be lucky to get one first round pick for a guy that's old, constantly banged up, and putting up the worst numbers of his career. I'd say he is closer to retiring than being an all-star. |
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Steve007
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Posts: 13227
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Also this isn't the 90's anymore, so I think this back to the basket stuff is overrated.
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Furthermore, Gasol has a skill set for a big man that would allow him to thrive for many more years as a third option in the NBA. |
Except he hasn't really thrived in the last 2-3 years. Again, this sounds like something people would have said about Nash. At least Nash almost led his team to the playoffs before we got him. Gasol led our team into having a realistic chance at a top 3 pick in the NBA draft. |
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King beef
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Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 356
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | King beef wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | King beef wrote: | | a2j1m wrote: | Thunder get:
Sign and trade Pau Gasol 3yr 30m
For
Lakers get:
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Jeremy Lamb
21st overall pick from Dallas
Maybe we can get OKC 1st as well |
Forget Collison. But if anyone is watching the WCF, OKC needs a low post back to the basket scorer really badly.
I agree with you, we should try for both OKC first rounders. For what OKC wants to accomplish, they should be ready and willing to get a player like Pau. |
Gasol hasn't shown that he can be a reliable scorer in the playoffs since 2010. Now 5 years later he is going to show up for the postseason? I'm not buying it. If I were OKC I'd laugh at the idea of giving up two first round picks for an old, slow player who can't play D and is soft. However, MAYBE they would give up one and if they would, I'd make the trade. |
Gasol averaged 17ppg/10rpg last year. If Gasol were to go to OKC, he would be the third option on offense and the fourth or fifth best player on the team. Even the term "reliable scorer" on OKC is relative because OKC has no back to the basket players, at the same time they have two great scorers. I don't think OKC would really want Gasol to score a bunch of points like the Lakers needed him to do. I think OKC would want the threat of a low post player in order to implement an inside/out game and manufacture easier baskets.
The role Gasol plays on OKC as the third option is different than the role Gasol had with the Lakers as the second option, very different.
Lastly, you call Gasol slow and old, watch the labels. Labels are used by lazy people who don't want to think. 17ppg/10rpg is fringe all star numbers. Furthermore, Gasol has a skill set for a big man that would allow him to thrive for many more years as a third option in the NBA.
Here is why the Lakers hold out for two first rounders. Mind you, initially I thought the 21st pick was enough. But the Lakers have the ability to take on salary and the tax for a small market team like OKC matters (they let Harden go because they didn't want to pay him or the tax). Gasol is a perfect piece for OKC IMHO and we could take on some money so they avoid additional penalities. Gasol may not be worth 2 first rounders, but the deal as a whole is worth a mid and late first rounder. I would not be mad with a mid first and early second either. |
Your comments sound a lot like the comments people used to justify the Nash trade, which you were a huge critic of. "Nash put up good numbers. Nash will have an easier job playing with bigger stars. Nash will be used in this way." I'm just not buying it. One reason OKC has been successful is they loaded up on young talent. So why would they trade for a 34 year old PF that missed 55 games the last two seasons?
I've seen many comments from people saying he is a poor defender and has slowed down. His offensive numbers are inflated from playing in a Mike D'Antoni system. He averaged 17 ppg but did that on more fg attemps per game than he ever had in his career as a Laker. The year before this season, he averaged 13 ppg. His shooting numbers and free throw attempts have declined significantly. He turns the ball over more than he ever did as a Laker in the past. His win shares declined drastically. His offensive rating last season was the lowest of his career, and this year it's even lower.
We'll be lucky to get one first round pick for a guy that's old, constantly banged up, and putting up the worst numbers of his career. I'd say he is closer to retiring than being an all-star. |
I was absolutely a huge critic of the Nash trade but you are not touching why and you are staying away from details (where the devil is).
I opposed the Nash trade literally because of this logic: In the history of the NBA I have never seen a 38 or 39 year old Point Guard worth 2 first round picks.
I have seen 34 year old Point Guards who might have been worth it, but never a 38 year old. But the bigger a player is, the longer they last in the league especially if you have the skills of a Gasol or Tim DUncan. I have seen many 33/34 year old big men worth two first rounders especially if they are mid and late first rounders.
Also, you are being deliberately deceitful IMHO when you talk about Gasols numbers last year. Gasol is no longer a #1 option. With the players that took the court for the Lakers last year Gasol was thrown into a position he is no longer suited for, you know this. |
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King beef
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Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 356
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | Also this isn't the 90's anymore, so I think this back to the basket stuff is overrated.
| Quote: |
Furthermore, Gasol has a skill set for a big man that would allow him to thrive for many more years as a third option in the NBA. |
Except he hasn't really thrived in the last 2-3 years. Again, this sounds like something people would have said about Nash. At least Nash almost led his team to the playoffs before we got him. Gasol led our team into having a realistic chance at a top 3 pick in the NBA draft. |
Your misunderstanding of the game of basketball is showing. Inside/Out has to be an aspect of your offense. Inside/out is how you collapse a defense for open shots. You go inside out through driving and kicking or post ups. But you have to have a threat in the post to work this aspect of an offense through the post.
Your argument of, "this isnt the 90s" doesnt touch basketball. It simply dismisses basketball knowledge with a bumber sticker, simple minded "argument???". "This isnt the 90s" could be used by any moron (not that I am calling you a moron) to dismiss anything that moron wants to dismiss. "This isnt the 90s" so we dont need big men. "This isnt the 90s" so we dont need a mid range game" Do you see how ignorant that sounds when a statement of the nature of "this isnt the 90s" is your rebuttal?
I disagree with your Nash argument greatly. First of all, OKC doesnt need Pau to thrive as a #1, they need him to thrive as third option on offense or as the 4th best player on their team. Gasol could still do that.
Secondly, Nash is a system player. He flourished in Dallas under Don NElson and Phoenix with Dantoni. Two wide open, offensive minded systems. Nash underachieved as a two time MVP. Go down a list of MVPs, let alone multiple MVP winners, who have never been to a NBA Finals. That list is short. Nash is the only one to win twice and never go to a finals. You know why, because in the Playoffs, when the game becomes half court (back to the basket/Inside out), Nash didnt have the skill set to win. His teams never had back to the basket players.
A 33/34 year old 6'11" big man skilled like Gasol who averaged 17ppg/10rpg last year is a great third option on offense, especially for a team with championship aspirations. |
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