| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17109
|
 Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hector the Pup wrote: | | LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | 32 wrote: | And so it begins. Ballmer wants to make the Clippers America's team.
| Quote: | "I've got big dreams for the team," he told the Times. "I'd love to win a championship. I'd love the Clippers to be the most dynamic, vibrant team and name in professional sports."
Ballmer added: "The only way any of this makes sense -- my desire to spend time in Los Angeles, this team, its aspirations, this community, this purchase price, any of that -- is to really live out the dream and make this kind of America's team." |
ESPN |
Way to go, Steve Ballmer. |
can he try to make it America's team NOT in Southern California.... PLEEEEEEEEEASE |
Give up man. It's not happening.
There are no circumstances under which anyone moves a major sports team from the 2nd largest market. |
Oakland Raiders - NFL
St. Louis Rams - NFL
Los Angeles Stars - ABA
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 32 wrote: | And so it begins. Ballmer wants to make the Clippers America's team.
| Quote: | "I've got big dreams for the team," he told the Times. "I'd love to win a championship. I'd love the Clippers to be the most dynamic, vibrant team and name in professional sports."
Ballmer added: "The only way any of this makes sense -- my desire to spend time in Los Angeles, this team, its aspirations, this community, this purchase price, any of that -- is to really live out the dream and make this kind of America's team." |
ESPN |
That's a good owner. Someone that buys a franchise because they want to win.
Last edited by Reflexx on Sat May 31, 2014 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20267
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ChefLinda wrote: | | Quote: | Ramona Shelburne @ramonashelburne
There is language in the purchase agreement w/ Ballmer that states he will not move the Clippers from Los Angeles, source says. |
|
 
(bleep) Microsoft. I'm buying a Mac |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | 32 wrote: | And so it begins. Ballmer wants to make the Clippers America's team.
| Quote: | "I've got big dreams for the team," he told the Times. "I'd love to win a championship. I'd love the Clippers to be the most dynamic, vibrant team and name in professional sports."
Ballmer added: "The only way any of this makes sense -- my desire to spend time in Los Angeles, this team, its aspirations, this community, this purchase price, any of that -- is to really live out the dream and make this kind of America's team." |
ESPN |
. |
can he try to make it America's team NOT in Southern California.... PLEEEEEEEEEASE |
I don't mind that they're in LA now that they're not owned by that vile excuse for a human being. Buy I wish they would move out of Staples Center.
Come on Ballmer! Give the Clippys their own identity by breaking your lease and moving elsewhere in LA County.
Way to go, Steve Ballmer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nnamdi21
Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 3730
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Question, wouldn't he be able to outspend most owners and not be afraid of the tax implications?
Wouldn't this be unfair to some (or most) of the owners who are only worth 2-5 Billion.
This guy has 20 billion at his arsenal, paying 40-50 (or a little more) million per year in luxury tax doesn't seem like much of a penalty to a guy of his stature. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20267
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Reflexx wrote: | | LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | 32 wrote: | And so it begins. Ballmer wants to make the Clippers America's team.
| Quote: | "I've got big dreams for the team," he told the Times. "I'd love to win a championship. I'd love the Clippers to be the most dynamic, vibrant team and name in professional sports."
Ballmer added: "The only way any of this makes sense -- my desire to spend time in Los Angeles, this team, its aspirations, this community, this purchase price, any of that -- is to really live out the dream and make this kind of America's team." |
ESPN |
. |
can he try to make it America's team NOT in Southern California.... PLEEEEEEEEEASE |
I don't mind that they're in LA now that they're not owned by that vile excuse for a human being. Buy I wish they would move out of Staples Center.
Come on Ballmer! Give the Clippys their own identity by breaking your lease and moving elsewhere in LA County.
Way to go, Steve Ballmer |
I do... weather its Donald or not I just want that team gone... so cal from san diego to Bakersfield belongs to the lakers.... not the (bleep) clippers. they should have no place in so cal... I hope the team packs up their (bleep) and moves to seattle or one of those "booming" cities in the Midwest or South.
its simple for me... California should be home to 2 teams the warriors that rep the North and the Lakers that rep the South.... Kings and Clippers can take a (bleep) hike |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ronnyjeremy
Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Posts: 1182
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bye bye clippers, go take your bandwagoners ex lakers fans and that attention whore darrell to seattle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144475
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LAKERSCMXCIX wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | 32 wrote: | And so it begins. Ballmer wants to make the Clippers America's team.
| Quote: | "I've got big dreams for the team," he told the Times. "I'd love to win a championship. I'd love the Clippers to be the most dynamic, vibrant team and name in professional sports."
Ballmer added: "The only way any of this makes sense -- my desire to spend time in Los Angeles, this team, its aspirations, this community, this purchase price, any of that -- is to really live out the dream and make this kind of America's team." |
ESPN |
Way to go, Steve Ballmer. |
can he try to make it America's team NOT in Southern California.... PLEEEEEEEEEASE |
They aren't going anywhere. And that is fine with me.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Last edited by venturalakersfan on Sat May 31, 2014 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144475
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nnamdi21 wrote: | Question, wouldn't he be able to outspend most owners and not be afraid of the tax implications?
Wouldn't this be unfair to some (or most) of the owners who are only worth 2-5 Billion.
This guy has 20 billion at his arsenal, paying 40-50 (or a little more) million per year in luxury tax doesn't seem like much of a penalty to a guy of his stature. |
All teams have to abide by the same CBA.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
27
Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Posts: 4459
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I do mind the clippers being in LA. I really wish they could move, and that clause in the agreement stating they won't be moved really disappoints me.
I never liked them, and i've grown to hate them. Hopefully they never win anything more than the division banner. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Nnamdi21 wrote: | Question, wouldn't he be able to outspend most owners and not be afraid of the tax implications?
Wouldn't this be unfair to some (or most) of the owners who are only worth 2-5 Billion.
This guy has 20 billion at his arsenal, paying 40-50 (or a little more) million per year in luxury tax doesn't seem like much of a penalty to a guy of his stature. |
All teams have to abide by the same CBA. |
Right, but the question is whether he is immune to the restrictions in the CBA if he is willing to pay massive luxury tax given that he is worth so much. The answer is twofold:
1. Even if you are willing to pay the luxury tax, that does not mean you can sign whoever you want to. If you are over the salary cap, and especially if you are over the apron, your ability to add players is limited. For example, Ballmer could not sign Lebron just because he is willing to pay the luxury tax.
2. Paul Allen owns the Trailblazers. He messed around with a big payroll for awhile, and got sick of it because it didn't produce results. You can wind up with an Isiah-era Knicks roster: lots of big contracts and no stars. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sugi942
Starting Rotation
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 691
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Balmer, either move Flop City to the Pond, or build an arena for them in Seattle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Nnamdi21 wrote: | Question, wouldn't he be able to outspend most owners and not be afraid of the tax implications?
Wouldn't this be unfair to some (or most) of the owners who are only worth 2-5 Billion.
This guy has 20 billion at his arsenal, paying 40-50 (or a little more) million per year in luxury tax doesn't seem like much of a penalty to a guy of his stature. |
All teams have to abide by the same CBA. |
Right, but the question is whether he is immune to the restrictions in the CBA if he is willing to pay massive luxury tax given that he is worth so much. The answer is twofold:
1. Even if you are willing to pay the luxury tax, that does not mean you can sign whoever you want to. If you are over the salary cap, and especially if you are over the apron, your ability to add players is limited. For example, Ballmer could not sign Lebron just because he is willing to pay the luxury tax.
2. Paul Allen owns the Trailblazers. He messed around with a big payroll for awhile, and got sick of it because it didn't produce results. You can wind up with an Isiah-era Knicks roster: lots of big contracts and no stars. |
As to the second point, there are lots of really rich owners who could (just as easily as Ballmer) pay any luxury tax without it affecting their lives. So Ballmer has no genuine advantage in that regard.
But, as you point out, spending recklessly isn't a path to success. Being willing to pay the lux tax doesn't mean it will advantageous to do so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thehotsung8701A
Starting Rotation
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 813
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sugi942 wrote: | | Balmer, either move Flop City to the Pond, or build an arena for them in Seattle. |
Whatever make you sleep at night!
_________________
I will make better threads. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Telleris
Star Player
Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 2371
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Nnamdi21 wrote: | Question, wouldn't he be able to outspend most owners and not be afraid of the tax implications?
Wouldn't this be unfair to some (or most) of the owners who are only worth 2-5 Billion.
This guy has 20 billion at his arsenal, paying 40-50 (or a little more) million per year in luxury tax doesn't seem like much of a penalty to a guy of his stature. |
All teams have to abide by the same CBA. |
Right, but the question is whether he is immune to the restrictions in the CBA if he is willing to pay massive luxury tax given that he is worth so much. The answer is twofold:
1. Even if you are willing to pay the luxury tax, that does not mean you can sign whoever you want to. If you are over the salary cap, and especially if you are over the apron, your ability to add players is limited. For example, Ballmer could not sign Lebron just because he is willing to pay the luxury tax.
2. Paul Allen owns the Trailblazers. He messed around with a big payroll for awhile, and got sick of it because it didn't produce results. You can wind up with an Isiah-era Knicks roster: lots of big contracts and no stars. |
The current results in the luxury tax era are 10-0, no title being won by a team that didn't pay the tax (will the Spurs become the first (who we all know are an exception based upon the star discounts they have) this year or are we headed to 11-0?), sure, spending doesn't guarantee you success, there can only be one winner anyway but not spending has been a pretty good way of guaranteeing you don't have success. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
^^^^^
You are certainly correct in what you say. But let me ask another question: What is the correlation between amount of luxury tax paid and winning titles? I suspect that the correlation isn't so high. Most of the really big spenders did not win titles, and some of them (Knicks in particular) weren't even good. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JIFISH
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 9315
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now Sterling, looking for another way to keep his name in the paper, has announced that he WON'T agree to sell the team unless Silver rescinds the lifetime ban and the 2.5 million dollar fine.
So maybe this will drag on for years, after all.
And Balmer will get tired of waiting and use his billions to buy some other worthless franchise. 
_________________
I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question - Richard Feynman |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Telleris
Star Player
Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 2371
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | ^^^^^
You are certainly correct in what you say. But let me ask another question: What is the correlation between amount of luxury tax paid and winning titles? I suspect that the correlation isn't so high. Most of the really big spenders did not win titles, and some of them (Knicks in particular) weren't even good. |
Over the life of the tax
Chance of winning - 3.3%
Chance of winning non taxpayer - 0% (If the Spurs win, it becomes about 0.5%)
Chance of winning tax payer - ~10%
You need to look at it relative to the baseline, only 1 team can win the title anyway, so taxpayers are 3 times more likely to win the title, and non taxpayers are several magnitudes less likely. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Telleris wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | ^^^^^
You are certainly correct in what you say. But let me ask another question: What is the correlation between amount of luxury tax paid and winning titles? I suspect that the correlation isn't so high. Most of the really big spenders did not win titles, and some of them (Knicks in particular) weren't even good. |
Over the life of the tax
Chance of winning - 3.3%
Chance of winning non taxpayer - 0% (If the Spurs win, it becomes about 0.5%)
Chance of winning tax payer - ~10%
You need to look at it relative to the baseline, only 1 team can win the title anyway, so taxpayers are 3 times more likely to win the title, and non taxpayers are several magnitudes less likely. |
I was curious about this, so I ran a search to see if anyone ever did a statistical analysis on the subject. I found a couple, both of which concluded that there is no strong correlation between payroll and wins.
Here is the more recent piece:
http://www.basesandbaskets.com/2013/11/nba-salaries-vs-winning-games.html
The article finds a correlation between payroll and regular season wins, but not that strong. It looks like about $18M translates to an average of 5 wins. The article finds that there is no correlation between payroll and playoff wins for 2013, except for the Heat. The chart of projected wins for the 2014 season is eyepopping.
Here is the older piece, which considers a wider range of data:
http://basketball-gm.com/blog/2011/07/the-correlation-between-spending-and-winning-in-the-nba-trends-by-year-and-by-team/
The article finds that there is a positive correlation between payroll and winning, but that it isn't very strong.
This does not disprove what you are saying, of course. However, your numbers include both marginal taxpayers and free spending teams that paid significant luxury tax. When you say that a luxury taxpayer has a 3.3% chance of winning a title over the course of a decade, it brings me back to my point about Paul Allen. An owner can get awfully sick of writing big checks for luxury taxes waiting around for that dream season. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LarryCoon
Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 11266
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
I didn't go deeply into it, but I got a correlation coefficient of 0.53 in 2010-11. Interestingly, I got 0.13 (nearly orthogonal) for 2001-02, before the luxury tax.
One factor throwing off the correlation is the presence of teams (New York, and the aforementioned Portland) that adopted the strategy of trying to win by throwing money at the problem. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| An r score of .53 for '11 sounds consistent with those articles. It's going to vary from year to year, of course. It sounds like the r score would have been a little lower in '13, based on that first article. Considering how far off the projected results were for '14, the r score would probably be even lower. Of course, that would be affected in part by factors such as the injuries to Kobe and Derrick Rose. However, that's a legitimate part of the equation -- paying lots of money for players includes the risk of injuries. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
halosage
Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 701
Location: Hollywood, Ca.
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Attorney: Steve Ballmer now owns NBA's Clippers
[url=http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/12/us/sterling-nba-clippers-ballmer/index.htm][/url]
_________________
"Changes aren't permanent, but change is." - Rush, Tom Sawyer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hate to say it but we will have some real long-term competition now. Of course, Lakers have deeply ingrained equity with fanbase and LA in general, but having a seemingly competent (and deep pocketed) owner will signal a new beginning. They have a good core for the next few years and I think Ballmer likely means Deandre Jordan will be locked up next season too. Competition is good.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bye-bye competitive advantage over the Clips. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Bye-bye competitive advantage over the Clips. |
That's fine. But you still have Yankees/Mets in NYC, and Yankees have a far greater presence here.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
