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| Should mods take jeggs bet to ban him if Lakers don't make playoffs but put this in TOPIC HOF forever if Lakers do make playoffs in 2015? |
| Yes |
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43% |
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| No |
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16% |
[ 5 ] |
| Just ban him any way, who cares bro |
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40% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 30 |
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venturalakersfan
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 Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Right, because like their ages, their situations are very similar. 
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Jeggs wrote: | | Voices wrote: | Teams with great players wins championships. What great players/player are going to take a backseat to the 36 yr. old Kobe making 25 million? And what great players/player are going to want to play for the Jim Buss Lakers?
The Lakers are not going to be contending for a championship in the foreseeable future, there are to many young talented teams that are ahead of the Lakers. |
Plenty of All-Stars and players respect Kobe Bryant and would dream of the chance to play for the Lakers. Any every player out there respects Kobe Bryant and would rather have him on their team. Don't confuse the espn and fan base hate and think that translates to the professionals on the court. Lakers are still the team everyone wants to go to.
Kobe's contract won't hinder the lakers getting talent. Yes, we won't be able to get two guys like Wade and Bosh with 18 mil a piece playing next to him, but we can get a solid draft pick next to him, and another max talent next to him that will probably be better than bosh or wade. There are some great pieces we can get this summer, and there are going to be good role players looking to part from this other failed teams in the summer. Clippers, Rockets, Pacers, Thunder etc. all proven failed teams that will need to make changes. |
you sure about that? i've never heard free agent came over just to play with Kobe. we lucked out on the Gasol trade. other players may respect Kobe but respect and willingness to go to war with him is two different stories. |
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Nordvader
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Joined: 21 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:09 am Post subject: |
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World Peace, Nash, Jamison ring a bell? It's not like we've had massive amounts of cap space during his time here to bring in another max player.
CP3 who we missed out on was extremely upset that the trade was vetoed because he didn't get a chance to play with Kobe or are we going to dismiss that as well to continue this absurd narrative. |
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Sure, if he has a team capable of it. Mitch has a lot of work to do to get the Lakers to that point.
With that said, those that are crying that no one wants to play with Kobe or for Jim bus, I'd like to kindly show you the door.
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Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Nordvader wrote: | World Peace, Nash, Jamison ring a bell? It's not like we've had massive amounts of cap space during his time here to bring in another max player.
CP3 who we missed out on was extremely upset that the trade was vetoed because he didn't get a chance to play with Kobe or are we going to dismiss that as well to continue this absurd narrative. |
I'll give you World Peace, although his state of mind is questionable. I wonder how much of that was the allure of LA. Nash just took the money. Jamison was hanging on.
I don't think any FA gives a fig about Jim Buss. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Jeggs wrote: | | Yes, we won't be able to get two guys like Wade and Bosh with 18 mil a piece playing next to him, but we can get a solid draft pick next to him, and another max talent next to him that will probably be better than bosh or wade. There are some great pieces we can get this summer, and there are going to be good role players looking to part from this other failed teams in the summer. Clippers, Rockets, Pacers, Thunder etc. all proven failed teams that will need to make changes. |
Personally, I think all the max-level talents who could potentially become free agents are going to re-up with their teams. I'd be surprised if we add any major pieces next season. |
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DimesnD
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Well, let me put it this way.
The Lakers FO DID try to alleviate the burden off of Kobe. They brought in Nash/Dwight, coupled with Pau, which should have made Kobe's life much easier... |
Ragging on the FO here. What you said was kind of funny. They Brought in help for Kobe but chose to have a coach who used Gasol/Howard in a highly unhelpful way. The correct choice was for Jim to swallow his ego and wait on Phil and not be "disingenuous" about it. it's like buying a ferrari and having the guys at Pep boys work on it. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| DimesnD wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Well, let me put it this way.
The Lakers FO DID try to alleviate the burden off of Kobe. They brought in Nash/Dwight, coupled with Pau, which should have made Kobe's life much easier... |
Ragging on the FO here. What you said was kind of funny. They Brought in help for Kobe but chose to have a coach who used Gasol/Howard in a highly unhelpful way. The correct choice was for Jim to swallow his ego and wait on Phil and not be "disingenuous" about it. it's like buying a ferrari and having the guys at Pep boys work on it. |
I agree about the coaching. But the FO did go out there on 2 major occassions (CP3 and Nash/Howard).
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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kwase
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Timmy's got a great owner, great coach and a great team. Kobe's got...Kobe! |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Spurs' core has been together for 10+ years. Not even a comparison. |
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deal
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | Timmy's got a great owner, great coach and a great team. Kobe's got...Kobe! |
And Tim makes $10mm which allows manage en to have a team around him. That's commitment to winning, even if he doesn't. He puts is wallet where is interest is ... How many chips should the Lakers have if they had that extra cash to invest? |
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | Timmy's got a great owner, great coach and a great team. Kobe's got...Kobe! |
And Tim makes $10mm which allows manage en to have a team around him. That's commitment to winning, even if he doesn't. He puts is wallet where is interest is ... How many chips should the Lakers have if they had that extra cash to invest? |
Who would the Lakers have right now if Kobe had taken less?
Please, by all means, tell me who.
_________________
Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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kwase
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | Timmy's got a great owner, great coach and a great team. Kobe's got...Kobe! |
And Tim makes $10mm which allows manage en to have a team around him. That's commitment to winning, even if he doesn't. He puts is wallet where is interest is ... How many chips should the Lakers have if they had that extra cash to invest? |
That's true, but you can have all the cap space in the world and if management\ownership makes bone-headed decisions then you'll continue to suck! |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | deal wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | Timmy's got a great owner, great coach and a great team. Kobe's got...Kobe! |
And Tim makes $10mm which allows manage en to have a team around him. That's commitment to winning, even if he doesn't. He puts is wallet where is interest is ... How many chips should the Lakers have if they had that extra cash to invest? |
Who would the Lakers have right now if Kobe had taken less?
Please, by all means, tell me who. |
PG: Smart (draft)
SG: Kobe (12m)
SF: Melo (18m)
PF: Bosh (18m)
C: Pau (8m)
Point being, Melo/Bosh, you can make a case for them to take less $ b/c Kobe would have taken a major paycut here.
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | deal wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | Timmy's got a great owner, great coach and a great team. Kobe's got...Kobe! |
And Tim makes $10mm which allows manage en to have a team around him. That's commitment to winning, even if he doesn't. He puts is wallet where is interest is ... How many chips should the Lakers have if they had that extra cash to invest? |
Who would the Lakers have right now if Kobe had taken less?
Please, by all means, tell me who. |
PG: Smart (draft)
SG: Kobe (12m)
SF: Melo (18m)
PF: Bosh (18m)
C: Pau (8m)
Point being, Melo/Bosh, you can make a case for them to take less $ b/c Kobe would have taken a major paycut here. |
I don't think any of those guys would take that little. Also, why would Bosh even want to come to LA from Miami? To take a pay cut to play with a superstar player 5 years older than the one he already plays with?
_________________
Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | deal wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | Timmy's got a great owner, great coach and a great team. Kobe's got...Kobe! |
And Tim makes $10mm which allows manage en to have a team around him. That's commitment to winning, even if he doesn't. He puts is wallet where is interest is ... How many chips should the Lakers have if they had that extra cash to invest? |
Who would the Lakers have right now if Kobe had taken less?
Please, by all means, tell me who. |
PG: Smart (draft)
SG: Kobe (12m)
SF: Melo (18m)
PF: Bosh (18m)
C: Pau (8m)
Point being, Melo/Bosh, you can make a case for them to take less $ b/c Kobe would have taken a major paycut here. |
I don't think any of those guys would take that little. Also, why would Bosh even want to come to LA from Miami? To take a pay cut to play with a superstar player 5 years older than the one he already plays with? |
This isn't out of the realm of possibility. If that team was put together, certainly a contender. Of course, Kobe taking $12m would be a loud signal that he was willing to be a team player with these guys.
But we'll never know since we finished Kobe's extension in November 2013. But these would have been interesting conversations to have.
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70sdude
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Before I retired, one of the things I did for a living was modeling solutions to real world decision-making problems, using symbolic logic, probability theory, data experience, and risk factors.
The elephant in the room with regard to the modeling of Kobe's winning of another championship is the assumption made as to the manner of similar participation that Duncan has done.
TD is still a key player and he's operating near the top of his career's game. He is a player who's never suffered a single season-ending injury, let alone two in consecutive seasons at advanced playing age.
I see exceptionally narrow chances of two things happening in the next two years, and they both must happen for Kobe to win another championship in the manner that Duncan has done:
- Kobe's eventual return to near-career levels of play
- Kobe being on a team of enough complementary pieces (with so many pieces missing, including head coach, staff and eleven player names) in the next two seasons.
Looks like improbably bad odds for our great guard. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | deal wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | Timmy's got a great owner, great coach and a great team. Kobe's got...Kobe! |
And Tim makes $10mm which allows manage en to have a team around him. That's commitment to winning, even if he doesn't. He puts is wallet where is interest is ... How many chips should the Lakers have if they had that extra cash to invest? |
Who would the Lakers have right now if Kobe had taken less?
Please, by all means, tell me who. |
PG: Smart (draft)
SG: Kobe (12m)
SF: Melo (18m)
PF: Bosh (18m)
C: Pau (8m)
Point being, Melo/Bosh, you can make a case for them to take less $ b/c Kobe would have taken a major paycut here. |
I don't think any of those guys would take that little. Also, why would Bosh even want to come to LA from Miami? To take a pay cut to play with a superstar player 5 years older than the one he already plays with? |
That's why asking who who who isn't really a fair question. You'll just say no, he's not coming thus we have to give Kobe the $24M.
But you're right, with that albatross of a contract, no top player is going to want to come here. |
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deal
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14915
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | deal wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | Timmy's got a great owner, great coach and a great team. Kobe's got...Kobe! |
And Tim makes $10mm which allows manage en to have a team around him. That's commitment to winning, even if he doesn't. He puts is wallet where is interest is ... How many chips should the Lakers have if they had that extra cash to invest? |
Who would the Lakers have right now if Kobe had taken less?
Please, by all means, tell me who. |
Well, ill mame a list of of proper alternative FA's this year. Because if I have to back and hit the books, the list would be way to long on alternatives..
You're joking that having less money will ever be better than having less... Please tell me you jest... |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Duncan thought about the team first before himself, took a lot less so that the Spurs could have more cap space to sign other players. I'm sure some other team besides the Spurs would have offered him 17 mil a year, he's still great. Kobe didn't sacrifice for the team like Duncan did, he took the money 1st making it impossible for the Lakers to win a championship. |
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dabask11
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Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 1989
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Jeggs wrote: | | Voices wrote: | Teams with great players wins championships. What great players/player are going to take a backseat to the 36 yr. old Kobe making 25 million? And what great players/player are going to want to play for the Jim Buss Lakers?
The Lakers are not going to be contending for a championship in the foreseeable future, there are to many young talented teams that are ahead of the Lakers. |
Plenty of All-Stars and players respect Kobe Bryant and would dream of the chance to play for the Lakers. Any every player out there respects Kobe Bryant and would rather have him on their team. Don't confuse the espn and fan base hate and think that translates to the professionals on the court. Lakers are still the team everyone wants to go to.
Kobe's contract won't hinder the lakers getting talent. Yes, we won't be able to get two guys like Wade and Bosh with 18 mil a piece playing next to him, but we can get a solid draft pick next to him, and another max talent next to him that will probably be better than bosh or wade. There are some great pieces we can get this summer, and there are going to be good role players looking to part from this other failed teams in the summer. Clippers, Rockets, Pacers, Thunder etc. all proven failed teams that will need to make changes. |
you sure about that? i've never heard free agent came over just to play with Kobe. we lucked out on the Gasol trade. other players may respect Kobe but respect and willingness to go to war with him is two different stories. |
Exactly
Kobe, for example, has respected Jordan. Would he ever be willing to take back seat to him on a championship team? |
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bandiger
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Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 12555
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Let me know when the FO wakes up and goes back to a triangle system with a coach thats on the same level as Pops. Duncan has the luxury of playing with one coach and system with mostly the same players for his entire career, sigh. Whatever, this FO is pathetic compared to the Spurs. |
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postandpivot
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Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: If Duncan can get to the finals this late in his career, Kobe can too. |
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| Jeggs wrote: | Duncan is 38...Kobe is what, 36? If Duncan can do this late in the game, so can Kobe. Both Duncan and Kobe possess the skillset to have a big impact despite being in their mid thrities. It's about having a smart coach that can manage Kobe's minutes, a solid core group with a great leader like Kobe, and a great organization and FO.
We have a lot of the pieces we need...
Lakers can follow San Antonio's model, and get to their level.
We can get a great coach this season. We can find a solid player in the draft. We have the cap space to surround Kobe with the right role players. We have Kobe as a leader to mentor younger players...
We will have a better record than the Clippers next season. Mark my words.  |
bad correlation.
timmy is a bigman that game is based on skill and not athleticism at all.
which means as long as he doesnt injure himself. he can do what he does forever.
the only thing that would stop tim from being tim. is if bigmen became so much better at his position where he had to call it quits. thats not the case at the bigman position. bigs are softer then ever now. so he doesnt have to worry about a young shaq, Zo, pat ewing, etc coming into the nba and knocking him around having him extra sore all night long for 82 games straight. he gets to play no namers and a few high jumpers that do nothing more then catch lobs and get put backs. thats it. they are not good defenders so they cant even make him work for his.
basically timmy being a big is living the cake life right now. lol
KOBE on the other hand has to go up against monster james, alien durant, paul george, etc. i mean these 3 names are hyper athletic wing players that all have ball handling ability, and all have the ability to play solid defense due to length and athleticism. kobe is 6'6 and change. so he's already shorter then those 3 guys. the older you get the slower you become, and you can no longer jump as high as you use to. kobe isnt bigger then any of those guys either except for durant. so there that goes.
and the perimeter position you have to be athletic or at worse very quick(nash in his prime).
so yes kobe with his skill can do very well. because he's still the most skilled at the perimeter position. but shoot. look at those 3 guys i just named. he has to deal with those guys multiple times during the season. and during the offs. and thats leaving out a bunch of demar derozan types running around.
right now timmy is on easy street, because the lack of competition at his position.
so its apples to oranges.
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LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
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postandpivot
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Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| bandiger wrote: | | Let me know when the FO wakes up and goes back to a triangle system with a coach thats on the same level as Pops. Duncan has the luxury of playing with one coach and system with mostly the same players for his entire career, sigh. Whatever, this FO is pathetic compared to the Spurs. |
so we're back banging on the FO. for phil. lol.
pop has more control then the buss family were ever willing to give phil. and thats with doc buss alive. so of course it would be the same once he's gone. so sorry. no phil.
_________________
LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Duncan thought about the team first before himself, took a lot less so that the Spurs could have more cap space to sign other players. I'm sure some other team besides the Spurs would have offered him 17 mil a year, he's still great. Kobe didn't sacrifice for the team like Duncan did, he took the money 1st making it impossible for the Lakers to win a championship. |
timmy always thinks of team first. but duncan was never as good as kobe was as a player.
duncan has never given to the spurs what kobe has given to the lakers. thats a fact. timmy HAD to have those 3 guys. not one, or two. but all 3 of them with a super bench, with the idea finals matchup to make sure it was easy to win it all. or catch some teams with key injuries. the spurs have never won back 2 back titles. especially not in the better era when timmy was in his prime. that tells you. timmy is a great player. but if i can say this. kobe is greater.
kobe only needs one more gun and some solid role guys to win it all. timmy needs 2 big guns by his side. so he HAS to take less or there's zero chance he would ever win anything.
_________________
LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
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