I think it's a red flag because I think it shows a misunderstanding of how to score most efficiently in today's NBA. Being a credible 3pt threat at their position is essential, IMO.
No, that doesn't mean they chuck all day, but if the defense is soft-hedging a pick & roll you're damn right that I want them popping out for a wide open 3 rather than our only option being the ball handler shooting a pull-up, mid range jumper.
If it's a double whammy of: 1) neither Jules/Nance can hit 3s reliably; 2) coach is telling me not to shoot it...
Yeah, it's a big problem. Can't just simulate a season's worth of shots and experience that should have been in the can already. We literally have no evaluative data if Luke was telling them not to shoot it this season (just terrible %s on limited attempts).
I'd argue that their percentage is artificially depressed by the fact that for most of the season the only time they ever shot a 3 is to beat the shot clock or game clock. Watching these two over the last couple of weeks where they're actually shooting 3's in the flow of the offense (and still not enough, IMO) I have a hard time believing they couldn't hit 30% on the wide open attempts that I'm advocating.
I would have also liked to see a bit more public support for those guys shooting the three but given that in the games things are trending in the right direction with respect to Randle and Nance taking those shots and on Simmons' podcast Luke said Ingram's ability to shoot will be the biggest determining factor on his ceiling as a player, I'm still thinking Luke does understand the importance of it.
He is showing he's not a full Moreyball convert the way D'Antoni and Atkinson are, but I think that's okay, neither are Kerr and Pop.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject:
Jakanzi wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I think it's a red flag because I think it shows a misunderstanding of how to score most efficiently in today's NBA. Being a credible 3pt threat at their position is essential, IMO.
No, that doesn't mean they chuck all day, but if the defense is soft-hedging a pick & roll you're damn right that I want them popping out for a wide open 3 rather than our only option being the ball handler shooting a pull-up, mid range jumper.
If it's a double whammy of: 1) neither Jules/Nance can hit 3s reliably; 2) coach is telling me not to shoot it...
Yeah, it's a big problem. Can't just simulate a season's worth of shots and experience that should have been in the can already. We literally have no evaluative data if Luke was telling them not to shoot it this season (just terrible %s on limited attempts).
I'd argue that their percentage is artificially depressed by the fact that for most of the season the only time they ever shot a 3 is to beat the shot clock or game clock. Watching these two over the last couple of weeks where they're actually shooting 3's in the flow of the offense (and still not enough, IMO) I have a hard time believing they couldn't hit 30% on the wide open attempts that I'm advocating.
I would have also liked to see a bit more public support for those guys shooting the three but given that in the games things are trending in the right direction with respect to Randle and Nance taking those shots and on Simmons' podcast Luke said Ingram's ability to shoot will be the biggest determining factor on his ceiling as a player, I'm still thinking Luke does understand the importance of it.
He is showing he's not a full Moreyball convert the way D'Antoni and Atkinson are, but I think that's okay, neither are Kerr and Pop.
His roots are in the triangle. Shaw whispering in ear I suspect doesn't help either.
I think it's a red flag because I think it shows a misunderstanding of how to score most efficiently in today's NBA. Being a credible 3pt threat at their position is essential, IMO.
No, that doesn't mean they chuck all day, but if the defense is soft-hedging a pick & roll you're damn right that I want them popping out for a wide open 3 rather than our only option being the ball handler shooting a pull-up, mid range jumper.
If it's a double whammy of: 1) neither Jules/Nance can hit 3s reliably; 2) coach is telling me not to shoot it...
Yeah, it's a big problem. Can't just simulate a season's worth of shots and experience that should have been in the can already. We literally have no evaluative data if Luke was telling them not to shoot it this season (just terrible %s on limited attempts).
I'd argue that their percentage is artificially depressed by the fact that for most of the season the only time they ever shot a 3 is to beat the shot clock or game clock. Watching these two over the last couple of weeks where they're actually shooting 3's in the flow of the offense (and still not enough, IMO) I have a hard time believing they couldn't hit 30% on the wide open attempts that I'm advocating.
I would have also liked to see a bit more public support for those guys shooting the three but given that in the games things are trending in the right direction with respect to Randle and Nance taking those shots and on Simmons' podcast Luke said Ingram's ability to shoot will be the biggest determining factor on his ceiling as a player, I'm still thinking Luke does understand the importance of it.
He is showing he's not a full Moreyball convert the way D'Antoni and Atkinson are, but I think that's okay, neither are Kerr and Pop.
His roots are in the triangle. Shaw whispering in ear I suspect doesn't help either.
smh. good point.
I wonder if Nance/Randle being directed to take threes all of a sudden comes from the new FO regime. The timing is suspicious. If so, it's sad that they have to micromanage Luke like this. "Start Zubac." Now potentially "make the PF's shoot threes"
Damnit Luke.
Randle and Nance should be putting up at least three threes per game. They should be told to take every open three.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject:
dao wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Jakanzi wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I think it's a red flag because I think it shows a misunderstanding of how to score most efficiently in today's NBA. Being a credible 3pt threat at their position is essential, IMO.
No, that doesn't mean they chuck all day, but if the defense is soft-hedging a pick & roll you're damn right that I want them popping out for a wide open 3 rather than our only option being the ball handler shooting a pull-up, mid range jumper.
If it's a double whammy of: 1) neither Jules/Nance can hit 3s reliably; 2) coach is telling me not to shoot it...
Yeah, it's a big problem. Can't just simulate a season's worth of shots and experience that should have been in the can already. We literally have no evaluative data if Luke was telling them not to shoot it this season (just terrible %s on limited attempts).
I'd argue that their percentage is artificially depressed by the fact that for most of the season the only time they ever shot a 3 is to beat the shot clock or game clock. Watching these two over the last couple of weeks where they're actually shooting 3's in the flow of the offense (and still not enough, IMO) I have a hard time believing they couldn't hit 30% on the wide open attempts that I'm advocating.
I would have also liked to see a bit more public support for those guys shooting the three but given that in the games things are trending in the right direction with respect to Randle and Nance taking those shots and on Simmons' podcast Luke said Ingram's ability to shoot will be the biggest determining factor on his ceiling as a player, I'm still thinking Luke does understand the importance of it.
He is showing he's not a full Moreyball convert the way D'Antoni and Atkinson are, but I think that's okay, neither are Kerr and Pop.
His roots are in the triangle. Shaw whispering in ear I suspect doesn't help either.
smh. good point.
I wonder if Nance/Randle being directed to take threes all of a sudden comes from the new FO regime. The timing is suspicious. If so, it's sad that they have to micromanage Luke like this. "Start Zubac." Now potentially "make the PF's shoot threes"
Damnit Luke.
Randle and Nance should be putting up at least three threes per game. They should be told to take every open three.
FWIW, I don't recall him ever having a nice thing to say about MDA during his TWC tenure. At one point during Kobe's his brief return in 2013-2014 he described the team's subsequent slower pace and reduced threes as "eating your vegetables". It was always strange to me that he would hook up and ultimately be identified with a modern coach. Nothing about his analysis then suggested he was.
Last edited by greenfrog on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
I think it's a red flag because I think it shows a misunderstanding of how to score most efficiently in today's NBA. Being a credible 3pt threat at their position is essential, IMO.
No, that doesn't mean they chuck all day, but if the defense is soft-hedging a pick & roll you're damn right that I want them popping out for a wide open 3 rather than our only option being the ball handler shooting a pull-up, mid range jumper.
it's hard to imagine him not understanding the importance of three point shooting at the 4 spot after spending time in Golden State. Something just isn't adding up. It makes no sense. Maybe he just doubts their shooting ability?
It also pisses me off that Zubac hasn't been given the green light to shoot threes. Zubac has said that he can knock them down. He shot 4 of 11 from three in the D League (36.4%). In a lost season, we need to see Zubac, Nance and Randle all be given the green light.
Damnit Luke. They need reps, and also they need enough volume of attempts to properly assess their shooting ability. Hell, for all we know, Zubac might be a decent three point shooter already.
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject:
I agree that the 3pt shot for Randle and Nance should be part of their games, and not just relegated to a fall back option. No, they aren't Ryan Anderson but they can still shoot the 3 as a 1st option depending on the defense being played against them. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Randle's shooting 33% from three in March, after Luke and Shaw have made it part of the gameplan to work on post all-star break. Enjoying seeing it develop.
Anyway, Julius Randle 19/7/3 highlights
GoldenThroat wrote:
I'd argue that their percentage is artificially depressed by the fact that for most of the season the only time they ever shot a 3 is to beat the shot clock or game clock. Watching these two over the last couple of weeks where they're actually shooting 3's in the flow of the offense (and still not enough, IMO) I have a hard time believing they couldn't hit 30% on the wide open attempts that I'm advocating.
Randle on increased 3 point shooting is shooting 33% from three in March.
Nance is shooting 40% from three in March.
It seems, like with what Luke and Shaw are doing, that they see the three point shot as the next step in the progression of both Randle and Nance's games.
Won't be surprised if that's a priority they work on all off-season as well as Randle's stamina.
If Randle can average at least 33% from three for next season, that's a HUGE step. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
“Shooting 3’s are fun. But for both of them, they do other things so well. The ultimate end game for them can’t be them being stretch -fours who want to shoot 3’s all night,” Walton said. “They’re too good, too athletic and too versatile. That’s just something to be able to fall back on late in the shot clock.”
This quote is bizarre. Especially with the 3 point shooting contests with Randle after practice. Like... what?
Maybe he's making a mistake of "playing to your players' strengths." Yeah ok, but that still hurts the offense... Totally guessing here. That's a mistake no matter how you rationalize it. Bro you coached the Warriors
Larry was letting it fly in summer league! What gives! _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz
I think he just doesn't want them floating around the perimeter and falling in love with the 3. But that last part about late in the shot clock is kinda head scratching. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
“Shooting 3’s are fun. But for both of them, they do other things so well. The ultimate end game for them can’t be them being stretch -fours who want to shoot 3’s all night,” Walton said. “They’re too good, too athletic and too versatile. That’s just something to be able to fall back on late in the shot clock.”
This quote is bizarre. Especially with the 3 point shooting contests with Randle after practice. Like... what?
Maybe he's making a mistake of "playing to your players' strengths." Yeah ok, but that still hurts the offense... Totally guessing here. That's a mistake no matter how you rationalize it. Bro you coached the Warriors
Larry was letting it fly in summer league! What gives!
Julius us becoming the modern day Lamar Odom in the sense he has one great game gets you all excited about him then has 5 bad ones, then one great one then another 5 bad ones
I'd say more it's more like fans were hypercritical of both guys, and put that label on them. Far too often Randle has a decent game and you come on here and people are acting as though he played terrible because he had an off shooting night, or only scored 8 points, etc. For example two nights ago he only scores 10 points and shot 3-9 (3 of the 9 shots were 3 pointers)... but he also had 7 rebounds, 7 assists. In another game this month he only shot 1-6 and scored 4 points... but had 12 rebounds, 8 assists, and a blocked shot. He had a 5 point game early in the month where he shot 2-7, but had 12 rebounds, 6 assists, and a steal. Are those bad games because he shot poorly?
To put his season in perspective, provided you throw out a few poor games which were injury/sickness related (one in the middle of his pneumonia when he tried to come back then sat the next game, and two which were games he was injured in and then missed time) his season breaks down like this.
Number of bad games: 5 (8.5%)
Number of below par games: 11 (18.6%)
Number of average games: 18 (30.5%)
Number of above par games: 10 (16.9%)
Number of good games: 9 (15.2%)
Number of great games: 6 (10.2%)
Combined Bad or Below Average: 27.1%
Average Games: 30.5%
Combined Above Average Or Better Games: 42.3%
He had a streak of 6 games in January which were poor (4/8/2, 2/10/4, 7/7/7/1, 16/5/4/1/1, 9/6/4/1, 8/5/1) before then missing 3 of the next four games due to pneumonia. That covered a good number of his subpar performances on the year.
Since the All-Star Break (13 games) Randle has averaged: 13.8 points, 10.8 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 0.6 blocks, and 0.6 steals w/ 2.1 turnovers (a solid assist:turnover ratio) but by reading this thread you'd think he was a no show.
“Shooting 3’s are fun. But for both of them, they do other things so well. The ultimate end game for them can’t be them being stretch -fours who want to shoot 3’s all night,” Walton said. “They’re too good, too athletic and too versatile. That’s just something to be able to fall back on late in the shot clock.”
This quote is bizarre. Especially with the 3 point shooting contests with Randle after practice. Like... what?
Maybe he's making a mistake of "playing to your players' strengths." Yeah ok, but that still hurts the offense... Totally guessing here. That's a mistake no matter how you rationalize it. Bro you coached the Warriors
Larry was letting it fly in summer league! What gives!
That it was summer league.
Well... Yeah. But if this season was about development, we should be getting our PFs at least comfortable with taking 3s right? At least to keep the defense honest. Weird take by Diet Byron here. This almost contradicts his talk this summer about plans for the team. Idk what's going on in his head
At least they're doing it *now* _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:52 pm Post subject:
J.C. Smith wrote:
pmacla wrote:
Julius us becoming the modern day Lamar Odom in the sense he has one great game gets you all excited about him then has 5 bad ones, then one great one then another 5 bad ones
I'd say more it's more like fans were hypercritical of both guys, and put that label on them. Far too often Randle has a decent game and you come on here and people are acting as though he played terrible because he had an off shooting night, or only scored 8 points, etc. For example two nights ago he only scores 10 points and shot 3-9 (3 of the 9 shots were 3 pointers)... but he also had 7 rebounds, 7 assists. In another game this month he only shot 1-6 and scored 4 points... but had 12 rebounds, 8 assists, and a blocked shot. He had a 5 point game early in the month where he shot 2-7, but had 12 rebounds, 6 assists, and a steal. Are those bad games because he shot poorly?
To put his season in perspective, provided you throw out a few poor games which were injury/sickness related (one in the middle of his pneumonia when he tried to come back then sat the next game, and two which were games he was injured in and then missed time) his season breaks down like this.
Number of bad games: 5 (8.5%)
Number of below par games: 11 (18.6%)
Number of average games: 18 (30.5%)
Number of above par games: 10 (16.9%)
Number of good games: 9 (15.2%)
Number of great games: 6 (10.2%)
Combined Bad or Below Average: 27.1%
Average Games: 30.5%
Combined Above Average Or Better Games: 42.3%
He had a streak of 6 games in January which were poor (4/8/2, 2/10/4, 7/7/7/1, 16/5/4/1/1, 9/6/4/1, 8/5/1) before then missing 3 of the next four games due to pneumonia. That covered a good number of his subpar performances on the year.
Since the All-Star Break (13 games) Randle has averaged: 13.8 points, 10.8 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 0.6 blocks, and 0.6 steals w/ 2.1 turnovers (a solid assist:turnover ratio) but by reading this thread you'd think he was a no show.
I'm just curious, what did you rate his last game?
Julius us becoming the modern day Lamar Odom in the sense he has one great game gets you all excited about him then has 5 bad ones, then one great one then another 5 bad ones
I'd say more it's more like fans were hypercritical of both guys, and put that label on them. Far too often Randle has a decent game and you come on here and people are acting as though he played terrible because he had an off shooting night, or only scored 8 points, etc. For example two nights ago he only scores 10 points and shot 3-9 (3 of the 9 shots were 3 pointers)... but he also had 7 rebounds, 7 assists. In another game this month he only shot 1-6 and scored 4 points... but had 12 rebounds, 8 assists, and a blocked shot. He had a 5 point game early in the month where he shot 2-7, but had 12 rebounds, 6 assists, and a steal. Are those bad games because he shot poorly?
To put his season in perspective, provided you throw out a few poor games which were injury/sickness related (one in the middle of his pneumonia when he tried to come back then sat the next game, and two which were games he was injured in and then missed time) his season breaks down like this.
Number of bad games: 5 (8.5%)
Number of below par games: 11 (18.6%)
Number of average games: 18 (30.5%)
Number of above par games: 10 (16.9%)
Number of good games: 9 (15.2%)
Number of great games: 6 (10.2%)
Combined Bad or Below Average: 27.1%
Average Games: 30.5%
Combined Above Average Or Better Games: 42.3%
He had a streak of 6 games in January which were poor (4/8/2, 2/10/4, 7/7/7/1, 16/5/4/1/1, 9/6/4/1, 8/5/1) before then missing 3 of the next four games due to pneumonia. That covered a good number of his subpar performances on the year.
Since the All-Star Break (13 games) Randle has averaged: 13.8 points, 10.8 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 0.6 blocks, and 0.6 steals w/ 2.1 turnovers (a solid assist:turnover ratio) but by reading this thread you'd think he was a no show.
I'm just curious, what did you rate his last game?
Good blown out
Triple double watch
Great game obviously
I'm just curious, what did you rate his last game?
Not sure off hand, either average or below par because of the context (its fresh in my mind). Going by stats it would be an average game due to better than average scoring, below average rebounding.
If you want to go by every game since the All-Star break for example his numbers look like this:
13 points (4-9), 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal - Slightly above par
13 points (6-12), 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal - above par
6 points (2-9), 12 rebounds, 4 assists - This is one of those tough ones I was talking about, you probalby have to give him an average or below par due to the shooting, but 12 rebounds and 4 assists is above par.
23 points (10-14), 19 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 blocks, 3 steals - great
13 points (5-13), 7 rebounds, 3 assists - Below par
13 points (3-8), 18 rebounds, 10 assists, 1 steal - great
13 points (5-11), 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal - average
21 points (8-18), 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks - good
7 points (3-8), 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block - Below par
32 points (3-17), 8 rebounds, 2 assists - great
4 points (1-6), 12 rebounds, 8 assists, 1 block - average due to poor shooting but high rebounds and assists
10 points (3-9), 7 rebounds, 7 assists - I'd consider this average due to the good all around game though could also be considered below par.
19 points (7-13), 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 block, 1 steal - Now reading thorugh teh box score this would be an average, knowing the context we know his second half was better than his first and some might say below average.
So there's 13 games since the All-Star break and that break down would be:
If you give him an average on each of those tough tougher to call ones:
If you want to take the critical route and count all of the borderline games as poor games then you wind up a number still substantially better than his insinuations) with more above average than below average games.
If you meet in the middle of those two you wind up with a similar percentage to the numbers I showed in the full season post. He has a below par or bad game a bit over once every four games over the course of the season.
Now looking at the stats there, you tell me. That's the past 13 games. I'm not seeing any no shows. I think it's fairly typical of what we've come to expect of him. And for that matter it's not all that different than what you are going to see from a lot of young players.
His worst game in the past month is a 7/8/2/1 game when he played only 24 minutes. If your gauge is the scoring he had 3 games (23.1%) where he scored single digits. He took less than 8 shots per game in those three. He had 7+ rebounds in all 13 games, and double digits in 8 of them (61.5%). He had at least 2 assists in every game, and 6+ in 5 of them (38.5%). He has had at least 1 block in 5 of the past 7 games, and taken at least one three pointer in each of the past 7 games (hitting 33.3%). That's going to lower his field goal percentage, but it's something people have been wanting to see.
@defense: I'd love to see you directly respond and give your thoughts rather than cower in the shadows and commenting indirectly while leaving childish remarks. And yes, that's a challenge.
I would factor in his +/- in these games, to help get a fuller picture of how he played --- defense is kind of factored in with +/- in a roundabout way
I haven't watched his defense closely in a long time. But people who have - it's mixed results. There are still some horrible defensive games.
I'm willing to keep him envisioned as our starting PF, if his 3ball picks up - which I don't think is out of the question. But Luke is perplexingly stunting that development.
I'm just curious, what did you rate his last game?
Not sure off hand, either average or below par because of the context (its fresh in my mind). Going by stats it would be an average game due to better than average scoring, below average rebounding.
If you want to go by every game since the All-Star break for example his numbers look like this:
13 points (4-9), 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal - Slightly above par
13 points (6-12), 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal - above par
6 points (2-9), 12 rebounds, 4 assists - This is one of those tough ones I was talking about, you probalby have to give him an average or below par due to the shooting, but 12 rebounds and 4 assists is above par.
23 points (10-14), 19 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 blocks, 3 steals - great
13 points (5-13), 7 rebounds, 3 assists - Below par
13 points (3-8), 18 rebounds, 10 assists, 1 steal - great
13 points (5-11), 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal - average
21 points (8-18), 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks - good
7 points (3-8), 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block - Below par
32 points (3-17), 8 rebounds, 2 assists - great
4 points (1-6), 12 rebounds, 8 assists, 1 block - average due to poor shooting but high rebounds and assists
10 points (3-9), 7 rebounds, 7 assists - I'd consider this average due to the good all around game though could also be considered below par.
19 points (7-13), 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 block, 1 steal - Now reading thorugh teh box score this would be an average, knowing the context we know his second half was better than his first and some might say below average.
So there's 13 games since the All-Star break and that break down would be:
If you give him an average on each of those tough tougher to call ones:
If you want to take the critical route and count all of the borderline games as poor games then you wind up a number still substantially better than his insinuations) with more above average than below average games.
If you meet in the middle of those two you wind up with a similar percentage to the numbers I showed in the full season post. He has a below par or bad game a bit over once every four games over the course of the season.
Now looking at the stats there, you tell me. That's the past 13 games. I'm not seeing any no shows. I think it's fairly typical of what we've come to expect of him. And for that matter it's not all that different than what you are going to see from a lot of young players.
His worst game in the past month is a 7/8/2/1 game when he played only 24 minutes. If your gauge is the scoring he had 3 games (23.1%) where he scored single digits. He took less than 8 shots per game in those three. He had 7+ rebounds in all 13 games, and double digits in 8 of them (61.5%). He had at least 2 assists in every game, and 6+ in 5 of them (38.5%). He has had at least 1 block in 5 of the past 7 games, and taken at least one three pointer in each of the past 7 games (hitting 33.3%). That's going to lower his field goal percentage, but it's something people have been wanting to see.
@defense: I'd love to see you directly respond and give your thoughts rather than cower in the shadows and commenting indirectly while leaving childish remarks. And yes, that's a challenge.
It was just a joke, its not that serious.
What do I think of Randle? Last game like just about all the other young guys I thought he was terrible. Over all this season I think he's been underwhelming. My honest opinion is as of now I don't think he's a good fit with the other starters. I'm sure he will get better but will it be good enough to make up for his deficiencies? I think that is the big question and my guess as of now is that he wont but I could be wrong. So that's my general outlook on Randle, happy?
Keep in mind my opinion of him could easily change with simple improvements in effort and shot selection. I tend to focus on a lot of stuff other than raw stats. That's just my approach.
Never been a fan of +/- because it factors in so many other things, such as lineups, quality of backup, quality of opposition. I generally don't track it, I did though in the last game, only because I snapshotted it after the awful first half.
In that case Randle had played a poor first half, probably not as bad as the 2/2/2 on 1-5 would indicate (due to 4 of those shots being jumpers and one an end of quarter heave) but he finished the half a -11, which was the second best in raw +/- on the team (they were down by 30). Black was a -10 but he only played 3 minutes (Randle played 17). He finished the game a -3 in a 24 point loss, but didn't play particularly well. Which I think is a good illustration of why I'm not a fan of those stats.
In general though if you go through the box scores game after game there is a noticeable trend. The starters are generally negative (with varying degrees of negative) and the bench is either less negative or they are a positive. Going back a game further against the Cavs two games ago Randle was a -8 which was the second highest of the starters, but the entire bench other than Nwaba was a +, for example. Going through box scores of a few games its a negative in every single one of the past 9 games, but the bench outperforms the starters in almost all of these games (though they also have some games where they are all negatives).
This makes any stat which is centered around on/off court tricky for the team as its been this way all season long. The original starting lineup was a net positive, but in general the bench has always outperformed them. Possibly an indication that the Lakers have reasonable depth but not enough talent to compete with other teams starting lineups.
Defense is something I've been tracking though when I get a chance, having gone play by play of the entire game twice in the past month. Randle's defense has been improved though he's still not a good defender. His rotations are improving and that's resulting in him challenging more shots (and his blocks as a result going up). And the effort has generally been there aside from a couple of lapses.
In the last game for example when I went through it all I only really saw one player where I was upset about his effort (in transition where he got outran by Blake while trotting back). Ironically the one game where I thought he was bad defensively in the recent stretch of games was in his 32 point game. He had some really bad defensive possessions in that one, which led me to believe he was being lazy and resting defensively once he got tired.
So my personal assessment of him since the All-Star break would be a positive one on the basis of what I see as improved defense and undeniably better rebounding and playmaking. On the downside he's shooting a lower percentage (around 47%) in that period but he's also taking more jump shots so I won't harp on that.
I generally like to defend guys who I think are getting treated a bit too harsh on here. And currently I think Randle (followed closely by Clarkson) is probably getting the shortest end of the stick in that regard.
Extension Prediction: No extension if the Lakers keep their pick in 2017. Four years/$70 million if LA loses the pick. This one is a little complicated. If Los Angeles loses their pick in 2017, they also lose their pick in 2019. That would leave the Lakers a little short on young talent. That alone could drive them to keep Randle. If they get to keep the pick and can add another young player, they can let him get to restricted free agency in the summer of 2018 and make a decision at that point. It also gives them another year of development for Ingram and Larry Nance Jr. as well.
_________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I have no problem trading Julius Randle and anyone not named Russell, Ingram and Zubac for a talented PF that plays above the rim, can score and play defense.
Give JR credit for his passing...but above average passing from the PF position is not enough for lacking the primary skills needed from today's PF. _________________ A three headed monster... Jeannie, Pelinka, and Ham... another terrible season.
Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Posts: 7849 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:27 am Post subject:
geesh I didnt mean literally with Julius 1 good and 5 bad games, I like the kid just want him to be more consistent with his game, its his 3rd year in the league and would like to see a string of 5 or 6 games in a row where I see the effort when he is going for like 15 13 7
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