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tox
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 Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| just fixing the bug in the code with this post |
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Roon
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | dao wrote: | | Judah wrote: | It's a crying shame that folks are so low on Randle that they'd rather get rid of him and play George or Ingram out of position at the 4. All this talk about Randle's defensive woes, like his inability to protect the rim, yet we're carving out fantasies of George or Ingram doing it? Seriously?
I doubt Zubac will be starting next year, but even if he does, he's a poor rebounder at this point and so is Mozgov. You can't play George next to either of them. You'll be eaten alive on the boards.
Has the league gone away from "traditional" 4's? Of course, but even if the 4 on the opposing team isn't 6'10 or 6'11 he'll still have strength and grit to battle in the paint. Neither George or Ingram can match up with bruisers in the paint. George just isn't that kind of player. And while people speak of Ingram moving to the 4 as something that's supposedly inevitable, it seems a lot more like wishful thinking imo. I don't think he'll ever be strong enough or big enough to play the 4 full time. If he ever plays the 4 it'll be during small stretches when the opposing team goes small and doesn't have a guy at that spot who does any dirty work. That was the only time Luke played Ingram at the 4 last year. I do expect him to get stronger, but that's different from becoming strong enough to play the 4 full time. Neither he or George can handle it.
Also, it's a little humorous to me that people who want the Lakers to trade for George are completely ignoring what George wants:
1) He doesn't want the Lakers to gut the team for him. No problem. Let's ignore him and trade at least two of Russell, Randle, and the second pick anyways.
2) George didn't like being moved to the 4. No problem. Let's ignore him and play him at the 4 anyways (since he'll protect the rim better than Randle!).
So you're just gonna blatantly ignore the guy's wishes and still expect him to re-sign once the season is over? That kind of idiocy is exactly what the last regime did with Dwight that played a pivotal role in him leaving. If you're the one who wants to give away assets to rent a guy for one year, you better do everything you possibly can to keep him happy. Presumptiously gutting the team for George and playing him at the 4 would be the first dominoes in causing the new relationship to turn sour. |
You don't force George to play the 4 against his will. You pitch the idea to him, try to convince him that it's the best position for both him and the team. And if he doesn't buy it, then just let him play the three. Ultimately though, if/when we acquire George, Ingram and George will almost certainly be our longterm starting forwards.
As it pertains to Randle's defense at the 4, it is horrendous. And it has nothing to do with "protecting the rim." It has to do with making basic defensive rotations, closing out on shooters, and completing general team defensive tasks without hesitation. His lack of defensive awareness makes him a step slow on these sort of tasks. Look at how much better the team defends when Nance is in instead of Randle. |
Again, I don't see why Nance can't just be our starting 4. He is so much better on D, more athletic and always moving the ball.
I think that Randle will improve for sure, but he is in a big hole compared to nance. |
Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
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nash
Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Roon wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | dao wrote: | | Judah wrote: | It's a crying shame that folks are so low on Randle that they'd rather get rid of him and play George or Ingram out of position at the 4. All this talk about Randle's defensive woes, like his inability to protect the rim, yet we're carving out fantasies of George or Ingram doing it? Seriously?
I doubt Zubac will be starting next year, but even if he does, he's a poor rebounder at this point and so is Mozgov. You can't play George next to either of them. You'll be eaten alive on the boards.
Has the league gone away from "traditional" 4's? Of course, but even if the 4 on the opposing team isn't 6'10 or 6'11 he'll still have strength and grit to battle in the paint. Neither George or Ingram can match up with bruisers in the paint. George just isn't that kind of player. And while people speak of Ingram moving to the 4 as something that's supposedly inevitable, it seems a lot more like wishful thinking imo. I don't think he'll ever be strong enough or big enough to play the 4 full time. If he ever plays the 4 it'll be during small stretches when the opposing team goes small and doesn't have a guy at that spot who does any dirty work. That was the only time Luke played Ingram at the 4 last year. I do expect him to get stronger, but that's different from becoming strong enough to play the 4 full time. Neither he or George can handle it.
Also, it's a little humorous to me that people who want the Lakers to trade for George are completely ignoring what George wants:
1) He doesn't want the Lakers to gut the team for him. No problem. Let's ignore him and trade at least two of Russell, Randle, and the second pick anyways.
2) George didn't like being moved to the 4. No problem. Let's ignore him and play him at the 4 anyways (since he'll protect the rim better than Randle!).
So you're just gonna blatantly ignore the guy's wishes and still expect him to re-sign once the season is over? That kind of idiocy is exactly what the last regime did with Dwight that played a pivotal role in him leaving. If you're the one who wants to give away assets to rent a guy for one year, you better do everything you possibly can to keep him happy. Presumptiously gutting the team for George and playing him at the 4 would be the first dominoes in causing the new relationship to turn sour. |
You don't force George to play the 4 against his will. You pitch the idea to him, try to convince him that it's the best position for both him and the team. And if he doesn't buy it, then just let him play the three. Ultimately though, if/when we acquire George, Ingram and George will almost certainly be our longterm starting forwards.
As it pertains to Randle's defense at the 4, it is horrendous. And it has nothing to do with "protecting the rim." It has to do with making basic defensive rotations, closing out on shooters, and completing general team defensive tasks without hesitation. His lack of defensive awareness makes him a step slow on these sort of tasks. Look at how much better the team defends when Nance is in instead of Randle. |
Again, I don't see why Nance can't just be our starting 4. He is so much better on D, more athletic and always moving the ball.
I think that Randle will improve for sure, but he is in a big hole compared to nance. |
Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
You are right about everything, that is exactly why Nance is a better fit with starters |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Roon wrote: | Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
Crohn's disease? |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Roon wrote: | Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
Crohn's disease? |
Agree that Nance can overpass and should shoot more. He is a better shooter and finisher than flailing arms Randle.
Also agree that Nance has durability questions. I also agree that Randle has major speed for his size, but it does not translate into effective defense. Hopefully it will.
Randle also has way better handles than Nance, but I think that Nance is the smarter passer. Does not get the volume that Randle does though.
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pio2u
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Roon wrote: | Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
Crohn's disease? |
Agree that Nance can overpass and should shoot more. He is a better shooter and finisher than flailing arms Randle.
Also agree that Nance has durability questions. I also agree that Randle has major speed for his size, but it does not translate into effective defense. Hopefully it will.
Randle also has way better handles than Nance, but I think that Nance is the smarter passer. Does not get the volume that Randle does though. |
The two-headed monster is developing quite well.  |
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Roon
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Roon wrote: | Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
Crohn's disease? |
Yes it's probably a big factor, and it's unfortunate for him of course, but it factors into his capability and expectations as a player. Why groom Nance with the rest of the starters if he's not going to be physically capable of playing every night. He has yet to play more than 63 games in a season as well. |
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Roon
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Roon wrote: | Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
Crohn's disease? |
Agree that Nance can overpass and should shoot more. He is a better shooter and finisher than flailing arms Randle.
Also agree that Nance has durability questions. I also agree that Randle has major speed for his size, but it does not translate into effective defense. Hopefully it will.
Randle also has way better handles than Nance, but I think that Nance is the smarter passer. Does not get the volume that Randle does though. |
I'm not willing to say one or the other is a better shooter at this point. Next season should flush that one out a bit more. Nance is a better finisher, but almost all of his finishes are off assisted dunks/layups or offensive rebounds. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and I really like Nance, however, IMO Randle has a much higher ceiling. It would be foolish not give Randle the opportunity to grow.
If/When Randle actually stops improving, and you don't like the end result, then bench him for Nance. Every weakness he has, he's worked on and gotten better at. Let him continue to improve until he proves otherwise. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Roon wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Roon wrote: | Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
Crohn's disease? |
Agree that Nance can overpass and should shoot more. He is a better shooter and finisher than flailing arms Randle.
Also agree that Nance has durability questions. I also agree that Randle has major speed for his size, but it does not translate into effective defense. Hopefully it will.
Randle also has way better handles than Nance, but I think that Nance is the smarter passer. Does not get the volume that Randle does though. |
I'm not willing to say one or the other is a better shooter at this point. Next season should flush that one out a bit more. Nance is a better finisher, but almost all of his finishes are off assisted dunks/layups or offensive rebounds. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and I really like Nance, however, IMO Randle has a much higher ceiling. It would be foolish not give Randle the opportunity to grow.
If/When Randle actually stops improving, and you don't like the end result, then bench him for Nance. Every weakness he has, he's worked on and gotten better at. Let him continue to improve until he proves otherwise. |
Agreed, Randle is a Laker and I am rooting for him. His handles for his size are very good and his speed for his size is elite, so he has that. If he could consistently use that speed on the defensive end he could be a great player.
I do credit him on improving his shot which was really bad. If he keeps working, which I think he will, it can become good obviously.
I do think now that Nance has a clear edge in shooting, but it is not so apparent because Nance is so unselfish with the ball and passes up a lot of open shots. It seems like Luke talked with him because he was much more aggressive shooting it at the end of the season.
With more and more smalls playing center and PF these days, I don't think that playing Nance and Randle at the same time for longer periods is out of the question. I thought they did well when they played together last season. Their strength's and weaknesses kinda cancel each other out.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Roon wrote: | Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
Crohn's disease? |
Agree that Nance can overpass and should shoot more. He is a better shooter and finisher than flailing arms Randle.
Also agree that Nance has durability questions. I also agree that Randle has major speed for his size, but it does not translate into effective defense. Hopefully it will.
Randle also has way better handles than Nance, but I think that Nance is the smarter passer. Does not get the volume that Randle does though. |
Nance has 3 more years of basketball experience under his belt and besides continuing to shoot better, his play in another 3 years will likely look similar to today. Really good bench/spot starter. Randle's upside is so much greater that the coaching staff are spending the time developing him. They are patient with bim and our other young players while fans are only patient with their favorites.
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Roon wrote: | Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
Crohn's disease? |
Agree that Nance can overpass and should shoot more. He is a better shooter and finisher than flailing arms Randle.
Also agree that Nance has durability questions. I also agree that Randle has major speed for his size, but it does not translate into effective defense. Hopefully it will.
Randle also has way better handles than Nance, but I think that Nance is the smarter passer. Does not get the volume that Randle does though. |
Nance has 3 more years of basketball experience under his belt and besides continuing to shoot better, his play in another 3 years will likely look similar to today. Really good bench/spot starter. Randle's upside is so much greater that the coaching staff are spending the time developing him. They are patient with bim and our other young players while fans are only patient with their favorites. |
I am with you, look at my sig! I want to develop our core. I know that Larry had more college, but so did Clarkson and he still does not play D.
Larry and Randle have played the 2 NBA seasons. It is not like Nance is maxed out by any means, I think he has a lot of potential to improve. He is a smart guy and he works hard. IMO it would be just as silly to say that Nance is maxed out now as it is saying that Randle has maxed out.
That said, I want to keep em all! I don't want to trade for Paul George. I want this young core to stay in tact and have some continuity. After playing together for a few years with the same coach and same system, the players learn each other's tendencies, I think that Nance and Randle in the front court can be very effective given a few more years to develop.
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Those short arms, lack of a right hand, and poor D really hurt JR. I am not hating on him, but I am wondering if he will be worth the money he is going to get. I do not think this team can overcome one more bad contract. |
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Roon
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | Roon wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Roon wrote: | Nance isn't more athletic than Randle is. He sure leaps higher, but Randle is quicker and faster, straight line speed and changing directions, as well as better body control.
Nance moves the ball, sometimes to a fault. Randle can create scoring opportunities for himself and others. Randle can draw double teams, Nance will never draw a double team.
Nance is a better defender for sure.
Nance also has durability concerns, he just might not be built to handle starting everyday. For all the criticism Randle gets about being inconsistent Larry was pretty much given a free pass. Nance only played 63 games last season, and a lot of the games he did play in he failed to make an impact. When he's on he can be incredibly disruptive on defense.
When Randle is on he can offensively take over a game, and be incredibly disruptive on defense. |
Crohn's disease? |
Agree that Nance can overpass and should shoot more. He is a better shooter and finisher than flailing arms Randle.
Also agree that Nance has durability questions. I also agree that Randle has major speed for his size, but it does not translate into effective defense. Hopefully it will.
Randle also has way better handles than Nance, but I think that Nance is the smarter passer. Does not get the volume that Randle does though. |
I'm not willing to say one or the other is a better shooter at this point. Next season should flush that one out a bit more. Nance is a better finisher, but almost all of his finishes are off assisted dunks/layups or offensive rebounds. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and I really like Nance, however, IMO Randle has a much higher ceiling. It would be foolish not give Randle the opportunity to grow.
If/When Randle actually stops improving, and you don't like the end result, then bench him for Nance. Every weakness he has, he's worked on and gotten better at. Let him continue to improve until he proves otherwise. |
Agreed, Randle is a Laker and I am rooting for him. His handles for his size are very good and his speed for his size is elite, so he has that. If he could consistently use that speed on the defensive end he could be a great player.
I do credit him on improving his shot which was really bad. If he keeps working, which I think he will, it can become good obviously.
I do think now that Nance has a clear edge in shooting, but it is not so apparent because Nance is so unselfish with the ball and passes up a lot of open shots. It seems like Luke talked with him because he was much more aggressive shooting it at the end of the season.
With more and more smalls playing center and PF these days, I don't think that playing Nance and Randle at the same time for longer periods is out of the question. I thought they did well when they played together last season. Their strength's and weaknesses kinda cancel each other out. |
I look forward to Nance and Randle continuing to develop chemistry together, on both ends on the floor. I think they could become a nice small ball tandem, but it might take awhile. I hope and expect them to finish games together. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think Randle's ceiling could be somewhere between Draymond Green and Blake Griffin, or, at best, a poor man's Lebron James (which, effectively, would be a mixture of Draymond Green and Blake Griffin). I think Nance's ceiling could be something of a Hybrid between Robert Horry and Serge Ibaka. When I think about it, Nance actually plays a lot like a young (but bigger) Robert Horry in almost every way aside from the 3pt shot.
The difference in potential is that of elite role player (Nance) and perennial all-star (Randle). I'm not saying either will meet their respective ceilings - neither are there, or close to it, yet - but that is how I would project each if they somehow met their ultimate potential.
I would also say that, based on those ceilings as I've targeted them, each of Randle and Nance are probably about at the same stage of their respective development. While both are still very far away, Nance might be slightly closer to his ceiling than Randle, but he's also two years older and has 3 more years of experience on Randle. In any case, because Randle has the higher ceiling, he is the one who gets the minutes first because he's the one you most want to develop.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | just fixing the bug in the code with this post |
Thanks
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Comparison of Randle and Nance shooting wise this season:
Randle:
10-14 feet: 46.3% (41 attempts)
15-19 feet: 41.5% (53 attempts)
20-24 feet: 28.3% (46 attempts)
Nance:
10-14 feet: 34.6% (26 attempts)
15-19 feet: 39.1% (69 attempts)
20-24 feet: 38.2% (34 attempts)
And here were their numbers in the previous season to mark improvement:
Randle:
10-14 feet: 26% (50 attempts)
15-19 feet: 21.1% (109 attempts)
20-24 feet: 30.2% (53 attempts)
Nance:
10-14 feet: 40% (20 attempts)
15-19 feet: 42.4% (66 attempts)
20-24 feet: 22.2% (27 attempts)
Both guys had some good moments after the All-Star break of knocking down threes which is encouraging. Nance showed improvements deep but his mid-range regressed somewhat. Randle was the better mid-range shooter though and showed huge improvements from the year before. Both guys were more willing to take open threes to close the season and I hope that gives them some confidence heading into the off-season. If either guy can become a reliable threat from three it will make it easier to play them together for longer stretches.
And to give you some context here were DLO's numbers this season.
Russell:
10-14: 33.3% (87)
15-19: 41.1% (129)
20-24: 38.6% (197)
DLOs numbers should be taken in context though his mid-range shots are typically pull ups off the dribble where many of Nance and Randles are catch and shoot, but it is encouraging that Randle outshot him as a mid-range shooter, and to see Nance's improvements from deep to close the season (with a small sample of course) |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25091
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | Those short arms, lack of a right hand, and poor D really hurt JR. I am not hating on him, but I am wondering if he will be worth the money he is going to get. I do not think this team can overcome one more bad contract. |
I used to think JR has T-Rex arms too, the way he tuck his elbow in when running sometimes but this has been debunked numerous times |
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ingle
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 960
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Would be interested in seeing how efficient Julius was in a half-court setting, from the eye test he seemed to be one of the worst starters in the league in the half-court due to his ball stopping, lack of size to finish and lack of shooting, even though he did get better at screening.
The size issue will never get resolved, but unless if he comes back with a consistent jumpshot I don't know how you can justify extending him on more than a role player salary |
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Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | Comparison of Randle and Nance shooting wise this season:
Randle:
10-14 feet: 46.3% (41 attempts)
15-19 feet: 41.5% (53 attempts)
20-24 feet: 28.3% (46 attempts)
Nance:
10-14 feet: 34.6% (26 attempts)
15-19 feet: 39.1% (69 attempts)
20-24 feet: 38.2% (34 attempts)
And here were their numbers in the previous season to mark improvement:
Randle:
10-14 feet: 26% (50 attempts)
15-19 feet: 21.1% (109 attempts)
20-24 feet: 30.2% (53 attempts)
Nance:
10-14 feet: 40% (20 attempts)
15-19 feet: 42.4% (66 attempts)
20-24 feet: 22.2% (27 attempts)
Both guys had some good moments after the All-Star break of knocking down threes which is encouraging. Nance showed improvements deep but his mid-range regressed somewhat. Randle was the better mid-range shooter though and showed huge improvements from the year before. Both guys were more willing to take open threes to close the season and I hope that gives them some confidence heading into the off-season. If either guy can become a reliable threat from three it will make it easier to play them together for longer stretches.
And to give you some context here were DLO's numbers this season.
Russell:
10-14: 33.3% (87)
15-19: 41.1% (129)
20-24: 38.6% (197)
DLOs numbers should be taken in context though his mid-range shots are typically pull ups off the dribble where many of Nance and Randles are catch and shoot, but it is encouraging that Randle outshot him as a mid-range shooter, and to see Nance's improvements from deep to close the season (with a small sample of course) |
Interesting numbers, thanks for providing! Nance has the long distance edge, and surprisingly to me Randle is better at the mid range game.
How about close in shooting/finishing?
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LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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I say both are fine at the right price but also expendable in the right deal or if they want too much money.
I am not looking to blow the bank on Randle for instance and Nance honestly is just another guy.
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ryan_c
Star Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 1371
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | Those short arms, lack of a right hand, and poor D really hurt JR. I am not hating on him, but I am wondering if he will be worth the money he is going to get. I do not think this team can overcome one more bad contract. |
Also I don't think Randle will develop his outside shooting and as you told his defense is horrendous. He is not worth the money. I like to trade Randle for picks or a player. |
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LakerFan1972
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 3257
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | I say both are fine at the right price but also expendable in the right deal or if they want too much money.
I am not looking to blow the bank on Randle for instance and Nance honestly is just another guy. |
Agreed. Lakers just need to be smart about their young players as they come to the end of their rookie contracts. |
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J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12670
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | How about close in shooting/finishing? |
Randle at 58.5% and Nance at 68.3%. |
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ingle
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 960
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | I say both are fine at the right price but also expendable in the right deal or if they want too much money.
I am not looking to blow the bank on Randle for instance and Nance honestly is just another guy. |
I honestly think everyone on the team is available in the right deal, not just limited to Randle and Nance. Shouldn't be too quick to write off young prospects just because they won't be on their rookie deals anymore. Truth is you're paying money for guys in their physical primes and still improving as players(if the work ethic is there), not Mozgov and Deng. I don't think there's very many instances of guys on their second contracts who are considered untradeable. Terrence Ross, Crabbe, guys like that - all overpays, but all definitely have some value in the market.
And Nance is not just another guy, way too early to say that. If you look at his numbers, they compare pretty well with Paul Millsap's first 2 years despite Larry being a lower usage player. And the eye test backs that up, he's got the athleticism and basketball IQ, and was by far our best defender. |
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BigBallerBrand
Star Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 5790
Location: LA
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Can we sign randle to an extension this season? Is there any benefit to doing that at all? Or is it better to sign FAs next offseason and then sign randle to go over the cap?
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