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J.C. Smith
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 Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And Nance is not just another guy, way too early to say that. If you look at his numbers, they compare pretty well with Paul Millsap's first 2 years despite Larry being a lower usage player. |
A concern with Larry is that due to health concerns he may never be a 30 minute a night guy. But here's how the numbers stack up in year 2 between he, Randle and Millsap in PER36 minute stats:
Millsap: 14 points (50.4% fg, 0% 3p, 67.7% ft), 9.7 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.5 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 5.7 fouls
Nance: 11.2 points (52.6% fg, 27.8% 3p, 73.8% ft), 9.2 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.4 turnovers, 3.7 fouls
Randle: 16.5 points (48.8% fg, 27% 3p, 72.3% ft), 10.7 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.9 turnovers, 4.2 fouls
I think those numbers show about what you'd expect them to show. Randle being the best rebounder, passer, and scoring more though less efficiently but being the worst defensively of the three.
My personal take on Randle vs. Nance and the future of the Lakers depends on what happens in free agency. If you are able to land a star power forward then Randle becomes expendable. In that situation Nance is an ideal fit, he is content with being a role player, and the intangibles that he brings is ideal as a role player on a good team. Randle meanwhile becomes a trade asset in that scenario with enough promise that he has value.
If you can't bring in a star then you want to hold onto Randle, because he has star potential. I think his floor at this point is a guy who can bring you 15/10/5. I think we'd all agree that he has areas he needs to improve if he wants to take his game to the next level. Defense, right hand, shooting all could use improvement, but he works hard. In that scenario you can really hold on to both guys as they can be played together. But if you have to choose one you choose Randle and hope that he figures it all out. I don't think Larry has the mentality to ever be a star. That's good if you aren't expecting him to be one, he won't become a malcontent. But that mentality combined with his health concerns put a ceiling on his upside. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Quote: | | And Nance is not just another guy, way too early to say that. If you look at his numbers, they compare pretty well with Paul Millsap's first 2 years despite Larry being a lower usage player. |
A concern with Larry is that due to health concerns he may never be a 30 minute a night guy. But here's how the numbers stack up in year 2 between he, Randle and Millsap in PER36 minute stats:
Millsap: 14 points (50.4% fg, 0% 3p, 67.7% ft), 9.7 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.5 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 5.7 fouls
Nance: 11.2 points (52.6% fg, 27.8% 3p, 73.8% ft), 9.2 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.4 turnovers, 3.7 fouls
Randle: 16.5 points (48.8% fg, 27% 3p, 72.3% ft), 10.7 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.9 turnovers, 4.2 fouls
I think those numbers show about what you'd expect them to show. Randle being the best rebounder, passer, and scoring more though less efficiently but being the worst defensively of the three.
My personal take on Randle vs. Nance and the future of the Lakers depends on what happens in free agency. If you are able to land a star power forward then Randle becomes expendable. In that situation Nance is an ideal fit, he is content with being a role player, and the intangibles that he brings is ideal as a role player on a good team. Randle meanwhile becomes a trade asset in that scenario with enough promise that he has value.
If you can't bring in a star then you want to hold onto Randle, because he has star potential. I think his floor at this point is a guy who can bring you 15/10/5. I think we'd all agree that he has areas he needs to improve if he wants to take his game to the next level. Defense, right hand, shooting all could use improvement, but he works hard. In that scenario you can really hold on to both guys as they can be played together. But if you have to choose one you choose Randle and hope that he figures it all out. I don't think Larry has the mentality to ever be a star. That's good if you aren't expecting him to be one, he won't become a malcontent. But that mentality combined with his health concerns put a ceiling on his upside. |
I just want to add that Nance had 2.0 steals PER36. |
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nash
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | Quote: | | And Nance is not just another guy, way too early to say that. If you look at his numbers, they compare pretty well with Paul Millsap's first 2 years despite Larry being a lower usage player. |
A concern with Larry is that due to health concerns he may never be a 30 minute a night guy. But here's how the numbers stack up in year 2 between he, Randle and Millsap in PER36 minute stats:
Millsap: 14 points (50.4% fg, 0% 3p, 67.7% ft), 9.7 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.5 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 5.7 fouls
Nance: 11.2 points (52.6% fg, 27.8% 3p, 73.8% ft), 9.2 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.4 turnovers, 3.7 fouls
Randle: 16.5 points (48.8% fg, 27% 3p, 72.3% ft), 10.7 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.9 turnovers, 4.2 fouls
I think those numbers show about what you'd expect them to show. Randle being the best rebounder, passer, and scoring more though less efficiently but being the worst defensively of the three.
My personal take on Randle vs. Nance and the future of the Lakers depends on what happens in free agency. If you are able to land a star power forward then Randle becomes expendable. In that situation Nance is an ideal fit, he is content with being a role player, and the intangibles that he brings is ideal as a role player on a good team. Randle meanwhile becomes a trade asset in that scenario with enough promise that he has value.
If you can't bring in a star then you want to hold onto Randle, because he has star potential. I think his floor at this point is a guy who can bring you 15/10/5. I think we'd all agree that he has areas he needs to improve if he wants to take his game to the next level. Defense, right hand, shooting all could use improvement, but he works hard. In that scenario you can really hold on to both guys as they can be played together. But if you have to choose one you choose Randle and hope that he figures it all out. I don't think Larry has the mentality to ever be a star. That's good if you aren't expecting him to be one, he won't become a malcontent. But that mentality combined with his health concerns put a ceiling on his upside. |
I just want to add that Nance had 2.0 steals PER36. |
Objective data:
Julius > Nance: PER, REB% and AST%
Nance > Julius: BPM, TS%, eFG%, TO%, STL%, BLK%, ORtg and DRtg
The data is here
The eye test says:
Nance >>>>>>>>> Julius: IQ / brain cells
Julius >>>>>>>>> Nance: Ball handling
Julius is younger and clearly has more room to grow.
They are both athletic, but while Nance is the better leaper Julius has superior speed / quickness |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| 15 wrote: | | Can we sign randle to an extension this season? Is there any benefit to doing that at all? Or is it better to sign FAs next offseason and then sign randle to go over the cap? |
The only benefit would be if he re-signed at a cheap price. Wait until next offseason and you can sign a FA and then re-sign him.
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MJST
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Quote: | | And Nance is not just another guy, way too early to say that. If you look at his numbers, they compare pretty well with Paul Millsap's first 2 years despite Larry being a lower usage player. |
A concern with Larry is that due to health concerns he may never be a 30 minute a night guy. But here's how the numbers stack up in year 2 between he, Randle and Millsap in PER36 minute stats:
Millsap: 14 points (50.4% fg, 0% 3p, 67.7% ft), 9.7 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.5 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 5.7 fouls
Nance: 11.2 points (52.6% fg, 27.8% 3p, 73.8% ft), 9.2 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.4 turnovers, 3.7 fouls
Randle: 16.5 points (48.8% fg, 27% 3p, 72.3% ft), 10.7 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.9 turnovers, 4.2 fouls
I think those numbers show about what you'd expect them to show. Randle being the best rebounder, passer, and scoring more though less efficiently but being the worst defensively of the three.
My personal take on Randle vs. Nance and the future of the Lakers depends on what happens in free agency. If you are able to land a star power forward then Randle becomes expendable. In that situation Nance is an ideal fit, he is content with being a role player, and the intangibles that he brings is ideal as a role player on a good team. Randle meanwhile becomes a trade asset in that scenario with enough promise that he has value.
If you can't bring in a star then you want to hold onto Randle, because he has star potential. I think his floor at this point is a guy who can bring you 15/10/5. I think we'd all agree that he has areas he needs to improve if he wants to take his game to the next level. Defense, right hand, shooting all could use improvement, but he works hard. In that scenario you can really hold on to both guys as they can be played together. But if you have to choose one you choose Randle and hope that he figures it all out. I don't think Larry has the mentality to ever be a star. That's good if you aren't expecting him to be one, he won't become a malcontent. But that mentality combined with his health concerns put a ceiling on his upside. |
Larry Nance said that he wants to be in the DPOY conversation. Does not sound like he is content being just a role player. Yes offense is flashy, but defense wins games.
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MJST
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: |
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or point guard 
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nash
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:51 am Post subject: |
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With a jump shot it may even be his best position.
He is as fast as any SF and is stronger than most of them except maybe LeBron.
His length is not a concern at this position as it is trying to finish over longer 4s. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: |
With a jump shot it may even be his best position.
He is as fast as any SF and is stronger than most of them except maybe LeBron.
His length is not a concern at this position as it is trying to finish over longer 4s. |
May be more forgiving with his jumper if he can beat small forwards off the dribble, but he can beat guards off the dribble so I don't see issues there.
If Randle can legitimately play the 3, it means both him and Ingram can be eventually interchangeable at the 3 and 4 positions.
But even if Randle stays primarily the Power Forward, if he's retained his strength, along with the increased conditioning and drop of weight which makes him even faster and more explosive on both ends, he's gonna be a handle to defend, even more so than he is right now.
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Last edited by MJST on Wed May 24, 2017 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Roon
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | Quote: | | And Nance is not just another guy, way too early to say that. If you look at his numbers, they compare pretty well with Paul Millsap's first 2 years despite Larry being a lower usage player. |
A concern with Larry is that due to health concerns he may never be a 30 minute a night guy. But here's how the numbers stack up in year 2 between he, Randle and Millsap in PER36 minute stats:
Millsap: 14 points (50.4% fg, 0% 3p, 67.7% ft), 9.7 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.5 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 5.7 fouls
Nance: 11.2 points (52.6% fg, 27.8% 3p, 73.8% ft), 9.2 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.4 turnovers, 3.7 fouls
Randle: 16.5 points (48.8% fg, 27% 3p, 72.3% ft), 10.7 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.9 turnovers, 4.2 fouls
I think those numbers show about what you'd expect them to show. Randle being the best rebounder, passer, and scoring more though less efficiently but being the worst defensively of the three.
My personal take on Randle vs. Nance and the future of the Lakers depends on what happens in free agency. If you are able to land a star power forward then Randle becomes expendable. In that situation Nance is an ideal fit, he is content with being a role player, and the intangibles that he brings is ideal as a role player on a good team. Randle meanwhile becomes a trade asset in that scenario with enough promise that he has value.
If you can't bring in a star then you want to hold onto Randle, because he has star potential. I think his floor at this point is a guy who can bring you 15/10/5. I think we'd all agree that he has areas he needs to improve if he wants to take his game to the next level. Defense, right hand, shooting all could use improvement, but he works hard. In that scenario you can really hold on to both guys as they can be played together. But if you have to choose one you choose Randle and hope that he figures it all out. I don't think Larry has the mentality to ever be a star. That's good if you aren't expecting him to be one, he won't become a malcontent. But that mentality combined with his health concerns put a ceiling on his upside. |
I just want to add that Nance had 2.0 steals PER36. |
Objective data:
Julius > Nance: PER, REB% and AST%
Nance > Julius: BPM, TS%, eFG%, TO%, STL%, BLK%, ORtg and DRtg
The data is here
The eye test says:
Nance >>>>>>>>> Julius: IQ / brain cells
Julius >>>>>>>>> Nance: Ball handling
Julius is younger and clearly has more room to grow.
They are both athletic, but while Nance is the better leaper Julius has superior speed / quickness |
For objective Data:
Julius also has a higher FTr .365 > .222
For what it's worth JR is closer to Lebron's FTr than Nance is to Randle's.
Assisted% 2pts:
Nance: .756
Randle: .489
TS%:
Nance: .567
Randle: .543
While there is an almost .30% difference in their assisted FGs, there is only a .024 difference in their TS%.
It might be worth noting how each player raised their TS% from last year:
Nance: .544->.567
Randle: .482->.543
While Nance's BBIQ is obviously better than Randle's, I wouldn't say his overall intelligence has been demonstrably higher. He certainly is more charismatic than Randle, and I think that has an effect. As far as eye tests go, offensively the gap in their BBIQ has definitely shrunk.
Athletically Randle is also stronger.
That just further shows what a lot of people say. Randle has shown potential to be a creator and playmaker from a power position, and Nance has shown he's a very competent roleplayer. |
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Roon
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | nash wrote: |
With a jump shot it may even be his best position.
He is as fast as any SF and is stronger than most of them except maybe LeBron.
His length is not a concern at this position as it is trying to finish over longer 4s. |
May be more forgiving with his jumper if he can beat small forwards off the dribble, but he can beat guards off the dribble so I don't see issues there.
If Randle can legitimately play the 3, it means both him and Ingram can be eventually interchangeable at the 3 and 4 positions.
But even if Randle stays primarily the Power Forward, if he's retained his strength, along with the increased conditioning and drop of weight which makes him even faster and more explosive on both ends, he's gonna be a handle to defend, even more so than he is right now. |
DLO-PG-ING-JR-LNJ
That could be some cool defensive/offensive versatility. rly cool. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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There's a reason randle was supposed to be a top 3 pick and nance went 27
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tox
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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T-Rob better watch out, Jules is coming for that BF% crown |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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LeBronesque |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Nice to see him working on that body.
Now, show me a time lapse of him hitting 500 3s a day too!
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Nice to see him working on that body.
Now, show me a time lapse of him hitting 500 3s a day too! |
want to see the whole team doing that...especially the guards |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Nice to see him working on that body.
Now, show me a time lapse of him hitting 500 3s a day too! |
want to see the whole team doing that...especially the guards |
Well that's the thing. We know our guards our doing that. I'm hoping our frontcourt players are doing that.
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Nice to see him working on that body.
Now, show me a time lapse of him hitting 500 3s a day too! |
want to see the whole team doing that...especially the guards |
Well that's the thing. We know our guards our doing that. I'm hoping our frontcourt players are doing that. |
we do? vid? |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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There's a vid of zubac and nance hitting 3s. Not sure if 500 tho
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nash
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | There's a reason randle was supposed to be a top 3 pick and nance went 27 |
Sure, the same reason Jokic was a late pick. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Nice to see him working on that body.
Now, show me a time lapse of him hitting 500 3s a day too! |
want to see the whole team doing that...especially the guards |
Well that's the thing. We know our guards our doing that. I'm hoping our frontcourt players are doing that. |
we do? vid? |
LOL. Taking things literally huh?
If you don't think guards are hoisting up 3s...
My point is that I hope our big men are putting up lots of 3s, especially if Ball is coming here. Not usually a traditional summer workout for bigs to shoot 3s.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | There's a reason randle was supposed to be a top 3 pick and nance went 27 |
Age and potential are the main reasons
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Chase.button07
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Randle is taking over my #1 spot as the hardest working young laker
Randle
Ingram
Clarkson |
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Villain6Activated
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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This dudes work ethic is insane man, he's written off alot because of "t-rex arms". I hope he finds his role and excels with us.
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