| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
AFireInside619
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dao wrote: | | hydrohead wrote: | | Quote: | Bobby Marks @BobbyMarks42 18h
Lakers right at $15.6m in room (18-19) when you factor in their 2 first rd. picks this year and renouncing free agents except for Randle.
Bobby Marks @BobbyMarks42 18h
LAL would need to move one of their large contracts (Deng, Mozgov, Clarkson) or not bring back Julius Randle to create the room.
|
This cannot be understated. With the other 3 contacts being immovable, and the current inability to offer a max in 2018, Julius is dead man walking. |
he will be a pacer soon imo. Financially, it makes little sense for us to keep him and give him a 20+ million dollar contract. Ingram/George are our starting forwards longterm. There's no room for Randle. He's not good at the 5. His ball handling and distributing responsibilities will be minimal with Russell/Ball/Ingram/George. He's gone imo. |
Yes, unfortunately I think you are right. He could still be a good player but he's about to get paid and I'm not sure if we should be the one doing it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | *yawn*
It's almost like some people forget the entire reason you draft someone is to see if they play up to the level of getting that contract and if they do you sign them to it and you have the benefit of doing it, the way contracts work cause you drafted them.
The fact that some people are actually so scared that Julius will play well enough to need to be paid a big contract and THEIR REACTION to that isn't "OMG HE'S PLAYING UP TO THE LEVEL OF THAT KIND OF CONTRACT!?!? WHAT A GOOD GET FOR US!!" but instead "We can't afford to have him play well and thus make us have to pay him so we should move him!!"
I swear, some fans got it all backwards. Ya'll are focused so much on saving money you have no clue what to do with it once you've got it.
If Randle plays up to be worth a 15-17 million dollar a year contract this coming season, YOU PAY HIM THE 15-17 MILLION DOLLAR A YEAR CONTRACT AND THANK YOUR LUCKY STARS HE FELL TO YOU AT 7.
You don't RUN from having to pay him. The entire point of drafting him was hoping he'd play to that kind of level, and thus it would mark off another name you'd have to chase in free agency, because you got a 'name' you drafted.
Get with it. |
no. This is a league where Deng, Mozgov get 20 million dollar contracts. A guy like Allen Crabbe got close to 20 million per year. Randle can get a 20 million dollar offer from a team like the Nets without showing much improvement. We'd be forced to match or lose him for nothing.
If we can send him and Clarkson to Indy for George, yeah, you have to do that. Randle/Clarkson/28 would be a godsend for us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Page 1000  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Truck Turner wrote: | | MJST wrote: | *yawn*
It's almost like some people forget the entire reason you draft someone is to see if they play up to the level of getting that contract and if they do you sign them to it and you have the benefit of doing it, the way contracts work cause you drafted them.
The fact that some people are actually so scared that Julius will play well enough to need to be paid a big contract and THEIR REACTION to that isn't "OMG HE'S PLAYING UP TO THE LEVEL OF THAT KIND OF CONTRACT!?!? WHAT A GOOD GET FOR US!!" but instead "We can't afford to have him play well and thus make us have to pay him so we should move him!!"
I swear, some fans got it all backwards. Ya'll are focused so much on saving money you have no clue what to do with it once you've got it.
If Randle plays up to be worth a 15-17 million dollar a year contract this coming season, YOU PAY HIM THE 15-17 MILLION DOLLAR A YEAR CONTRACT AND THANK YOUR LUCKY STARS HE FELL TO YOU AT 7.
You don't RUN from having to pay him. The entire point of drafting him was hoping he'd play to that kind of level, and thus it would mark off another name you'd have to chase in free agency, because you got a 'name' you drafted.
Get with it. |
I don't think most people are worried about paying him tbh. I think it's more that some people didn't want Julius to being with, made sweeping declarations about his lack of skill/talent and don't want to budge from that stance.
The keep saying "I don't think he's worth that kind of money" as if last season was the best we could possibly see from him, even though we've seen continual improvement from him.
As I said before the second contract a player gets in the league is usually based on their potential moving forward more than how good they currently are. Julius has undoubtedly shown flashes of something special and he's continued to improve during his time in the league. |
when we get George, where do you think Randle will play? Starting 4, sending Ingram to the bench? Center? He's been awful at the 5. I just don't see where Randle fits with the addition of George. Ingram/George will be getting the bulk of the minutes at the forward spots. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakerjoshua
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 11277
Location: Bay Area
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | Page 1000 |
The vets on page 999. That's volt worthy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lakerjoshua wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Page 1000 |
The vets on page 999. That's volt worthy. |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lovefool
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2017
Posts: 275
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dao wrote: | | MJST wrote: | *yawn*
It's almost like some people forget the entire reason you draft someone is to see if they play up to the level of getting that contract and if they do you sign them to it and you have the benefit of doing it, the way contracts work cause you drafted them.
The fact that some people are actually so scared that Julius will play well enough to need to be paid a big contract and THEIR REACTION to that isn't "OMG HE'S PLAYING UP TO THE LEVEL OF THAT KIND OF CONTRACT!?!? WHAT A GOOD GET FOR US!!" but instead "We can't afford to have him play well and thus make us have to pay him so we should move him!!"
I swear, some fans got it all backwards. Ya'll are focused so much on saving money you have no clue what to do with it once you've got it.
If Randle plays up to be worth a 15-17 million dollar a year contract this coming season, YOU PAY HIM THE 15-17 MILLION DOLLAR A YEAR CONTRACT AND THANK YOUR LUCKY STARS HE FELL TO YOU AT 7.
You don't RUN from having to pay him. The entire point of drafting him was hoping he'd play to that kind of level, and thus it would mark off another name you'd have to chase in free agency, because you got a 'name' you drafted.
Get with it. |
no. This is a league where Deng, Mozgov get 20 million dollar contracts. A guy like Allen Crabbe got close to 20 million per year. Randle can get a 20 million dollar offer from a team like the Nets without showing much improvement. We'd be forced to match or lose him for nothing.
If we can send him and Clarkson to Indy for George, yeah, you have to do that. Randle/Clarkson/28 would be a godsend for us. |
Nah it would be idiotic to give up an asset for someone that has stated he would come and not to trade for him, esp when they share the same agent. The Lakers fortunately dont feel the same way you do. They dont want to break up the young core. Youve heard it from Jeannie and Magic. Cant wait for Julius to ball out, be our best player this year and silence all the haters that have been chirping since he got here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakerjoshua
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 11277
Location: Bay Area
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Page 1000 |
The vets on page 999. That's volt worthy. |
|
Posters I don't see often, on the same page. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Give me Tristan Thompson focus on defense and I'm happy even without the 3pt shot. |
He needs one or the other to be a net neutral player. He needs both to become a bonafide star imo.
I'm not that confident in his 3 pointer ever being better than 31-32% so I hope he brings it on defense. |
I think better shot selection could push him into positive OBPM territory even without a league average three - a little more role-player Julius instead of iso-player Julius will go a long way. Or maybe he just becomes outlier efficient on unassisted, off-balance floaters, who knows?
But better shot selection, 34-35% on threes, and +1-2 DBPM is the ultimate goal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12676
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dao wrote: | | He's been awful at the 5. |
Lakers Centers last season (per 82 games):
Randle: -3 PER
Mozgov: -5.4 PER
Black: -5.6 PER
Zubac: -8.4 PER
Nance: -11.6 PER
Paul George doesn't like playing power forward. He complained when the Pacers put him there. And Ingram doesn't have the strength to play there at this point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lakerjoshua wrote: | | tox wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Page 1000 |
The vets on page 999. That's volt worthy. |
|
Posters I don't see often, on the same page. |
I see. But what's "volt worthy" mean? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Give me Tristan Thompson focus on defense and I'm happy even without the 3pt shot. |
He needs one or the other to be a net neutral player. He needs both to become a bonafide star imo.
I'm not that confident in his 3 pointer ever being better than 31-32% so I hope he brings it on defense. |
I think better shot selection could push him into positive OBPM territory even without a league average three - a little more role-player Julius instead of iso-player Julius will go a long way. Or maybe he just becomes outlier efficient on unassisted, off-balance floaters, who knows?
But better shot selection, 34-35% on threes, and +1-2 DBPM is the ultimate goal. |
I think he could get to be a positive offensive player for sure, even without a 3 ball, but I don't think he'd make up for his defense (even with a 3 ball) unless he made strides defensively as well. He's just at such a critical position defensively that there's little margin for error there.
I agree with the rest though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | | tox wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Page 1000 |
The vets on page 999. That's volt worthy. |
|
Posters I don't see often, on the same page. |
I see. But what's "volt worthy" mean? |
Old meme from a poster saying something should go in the vault, but misspelled it.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | | tox wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | | tox wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Page 1000 |
The vets on page 999. That's volt worthy. |
|
Posters I don't see often, on the same page. |
I see. But what's "volt worthy" mean? |
Old meme from a poster saying something should go in the vault, but misspelled it. |
Ah, thanks. Maybe joshua saw my post count and not my join date when he made that reference to me  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSanity
Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Page 1000... about time. Been three years.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VicXLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | Page 1000 |
is there a door prize?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Truck Turner
Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 3937
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| J.C. Smith wrote: | | dao wrote: | | He's been awful at the 5. |
Lakers Centers last season (per 82 games):
Randle: -3 PER
Mozgov: -5.4 PER
Black: -5.6 PER
Zubac: -8.4 PER
Nance: -11.6 PER
Paul George doesn't like playing power forward. He complained when the Pacers put him there. And Ingram doesn't have the strength to play there at this point. |
Damn, you beat me to it....
I remember there being a pretty lengthy discussion in this thread about how surprising effective Randle was as a Small ball 5. So much so that Luke was ending games with Randle at the 5 and Nance at the 4.
Randle is also a better rim protector that people give him credit for being.
Also, the perceived poor rim protection of our bigs has less to do with the bigs and more do with our teams defense as a whole. Mozgov is statistically the Lakers worst rim protector, but when he was with the Cavs he was an elite rim protector.
Last edited by Truck Turner on Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| VicXLakers wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Page 1000 |
is there a door prize? |
Yeah, but don't let it hit ya on the way out...
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| J.C. Smith wrote: | | dao wrote: | | He's been awful at the 5. |
Lakers Centers last season (per 82 games):
Randle: -3 PER
Mozgov: -5.4 PER
Black: -5.6 PER
Zubac: -8.4 PER
Nance: -11.6 PER
Paul George doesn't like playing power forward. He complained when the Pacers put him there. And Ingram doesn't have the strength to play there at this point. |
where is the link to these stats? At first glance it would appear that I have earned a plate of crow but I'd like some confirmation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dao wrote: | | Truck Turner wrote: | | MJST wrote: | *yawn*
It's almost like some people forget the entire reason you draft someone is to see if they play up to the level of getting that contract and if they do you sign them to it and you have the benefit of doing it, the way contracts work cause you drafted them.
The fact that some people are actually so scared that Julius will play well enough to need to be paid a big contract and THEIR REACTION to that isn't "OMG HE'S PLAYING UP TO THE LEVEL OF THAT KIND OF CONTRACT!?!? WHAT A GOOD GET FOR US!!" but instead "We can't afford to have him play well and thus make us have to pay him so we should move him!!"
I swear, some fans got it all backwards. Ya'll are focused so much on saving money you have no clue what to do with it once you've got it.
If Randle plays up to be worth a 15-17 million dollar a year contract this coming season, YOU PAY HIM THE 15-17 MILLION DOLLAR A YEAR CONTRACT AND THANK YOUR LUCKY STARS HE FELL TO YOU AT 7.
You don't RUN from having to pay him. The entire point of drafting him was hoping he'd play to that kind of level, and thus it would mark off another name you'd have to chase in free agency, because you got a 'name' you drafted.
Get with it. |
I don't think most people are worried about paying him tbh. I think it's more that some people didn't want Julius to being with, made sweeping declarations about his lack of skill/talent and don't want to budge from that stance.
The keep saying "I don't think he's worth that kind of money" as if last season was the best we could possibly see from him, even though we've seen continual improvement from him.
As I said before the second contract a player gets in the league is usually based on their potential moving forward more than how good they currently are. Julius has undoubtedly shown flashes of something special and he's continued to improve during his time in the league. |
when we get George, where do you think Randle will play? Starting 4, sending Ingram to the bench? Center? He's been awful at the 5. I just don't see where Randle fits with the addition of George. Ingram/George will be getting the bulk of the minutes at the forward spots. |
You give him more time to develop into a small-ball center because if it works, having five players who can handle, pass, and shoot (to some degree) would be a huge boon. The guard skills Randle brings to the table make him a more worthy investment than you're giving him credit for.
He is an asset despite his flaws, and dumping him just to not pay him FMV seems like a short-sighted way to 1) waste an asset, and 2) alienate the agent who is doing everything he can to steer PG-13 to the Lakers at a favorable price. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| J.C. Smith wrote: | | dao wrote: | | He's been awful at the 5. |
Lakers Centers last season (per 82 games):
Randle: -3 PER
Mozgov: -5.4 PER
Black: -5.6 PER
Zubac: -8.4 PER
Nance: -11.6 PER
Paul George doesn't like playing power forward. He complained when the Pacers put him there. And Ingram doesn't have the strength to play there at this point. |
Wait...negative PER? What is this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| J.C. Smith wrote: | | dao wrote: | | He's been awful at the 5. |
Lakers Centers last season (per 82 games):
Randle: -3 PER
Mozgov: -5.4 PER
Black: -5.6 PER
Zubac: -8.4 PER
Nance: -11.6 PER
Paul George doesn't like playing power forward. He complained when the Pacers put him there. And Ingram doesn't have the strength to play there at this point. |
ok so these numbers are from the 82 games website. How sure are we that they correctly give the numbers for Nance playing the 5 vs Randle playing the 5, since they tended to share the court together in the small ball lineups. Also, what is the sample size? It seems odd for Nance to go from +.7 at PF to -11.6 at C. Randle was -4.6 at PF, and improved a bit to -3.0 at center. It's the highest on the team, that's surprising to me. It's still not a very impressive number though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pkflyers
Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 12555
Location: 714/562
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
1000 pages and he's still on the lakers. phew
_________________
Kobe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | dao wrote: | | He's been awful at the 5. |
Lakers Centers last season (per 82 games):
Randle: -3 PER
Mozgov: -5.4 PER
Black: -5.6 PER
Zubac: -8.4 PER
Nance: -11.6 PER
Paul George doesn't like playing power forward. He complained when the Pacers put him there. And Ingram doesn't have the strength to play there at this point. |
Wait...negative PER? What is this? |
Net betweennthem and the opponent. Of course per doesn't really tell you the net value of the lineup with each guy, or who THE other four are.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
