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Chronicle
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 Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Randle breakout year
Ingram breakout year
Lonzo starting strong
Let's go lakers! 
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | Randle breakout year
Ingram breakout year
Lonzo starting strong
Let's go lakers! |
I could see all three of those happening. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | Randle breakout year
Ingram breakout year
Lonzo starting strong
Let's go lakers! |
I could see all three of those happening. |
And if Jules really breaks out, what will Magic do? This really would put a damper on the 2 max deal. (I'd say let's roll with Jules then!). Options are keep him (no 2 max); let him walk for nothing (no way); or trade him at a lowered cost (b/c teams know you need the cap space).
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:36 am Post subject: |
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If he breaks out sufficiently enough to warrant a max contract, then that's one of the max contracts. It's simple. No need to overanalyze
If he doesn't break out, we don't offer him a max contract. Simple.
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av3773
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:39 am Post subject: |
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The realistic level Jules could break out this season is only going to increase what magic can get in return so hopefully he does that....it's very doubtful where he has a season where he becomes an "un-tradeable" guy.
Lakers want to slay the giant and who wouldn't want to be that franchise, if someone takes down the GSW while at their peak, that team is going to be remembered |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | If he breaks out sufficiently enough to warrant a max contract, then that's one of the max contracts. It's simple. No need to overanalyze
If he doesn't break out, we don't offer him a max contract. Simple. |
It's not that simple if the grand plan is LBJ/PG13. I think it's more nuanced than that. The trade deadline will be telling. Brook, JC/Jules (if still here) may all be on the table.
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h2omike
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| If Randle is putter by up 18 and 10 boards, 33 percent from 3 and average of defense he replaces a max contract |
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LakersForever123
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | If he breaks out sufficiently enough to warrant a max contract, then that's one of the max contracts. It's simple. No need to overanalyze
If he doesn't break out, we don't offer him a max contract. Simple. |
this. They will simply not give him a qualifying offer and will make him an unrestricted free agent. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | Randle breakout year
Ingram breakout year
Lonzo starting strong
Let's go lakers! |
I could see all three of those happening. |
And if Jules really breaks out, what will Magic do? This really would put a damper on the 2 max deal. (I'd say let's roll with Jules then!). Options are keep him (no 2 max); let him walk for nothing (no way); or trade him at a lowered cost (b/c teams know you need the cap space). |
If Randle has a breakout season then he should be ONE of those contracts.
What they should do, is wait to see if anyone actually commits to coming there before deciding what to do with Randle.
If they keep making hasty moves in 'anticipation' cause they're overconfident, then we're in a lot of trouble. If Randle starts playing up to a max extension they should give it to him, that's the point of drafting guys. You hope they get to that point.
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Icaruz
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:33 am Post subject: |
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We are going to have to pay Julius alot of money, by some report around $18m/yr even if he doesn't have a breakout season. The ultimate problem is that if he doesn't establish himself as an all-star then we might just lose him for virtually nothing in the 2018 summer. If Lakers are going after 2 max then there is no room for Randle unless he can convince that he is worth the 2nd max...and that is wishful thinking
So for Julius, the value seems to be to trade him now or fetch penny or a dollar if we don't extend him next summer. So yes, i think the laters will eventually give Indy the Randle AND clarkson + pick/prospect for PG13 offer. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Sad that we may come to a position where it's Jules or the 2 max dream, not both.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:43 am Post subject: |
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I'd rather have a Randle, at age 23, who is worth the max than Lebron coming here at age 34, and all that might mean. Although, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I actually anticipate a starting lineup of Lonzo, Clarkson, Ingram, Randle, and Lopez being a fun team to watch.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | I'd rather have a Randle, at age 23, who is worth the max than Lebron coming here at age 34, and all that might mean. Although, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. |
It would require the magic team assuming Deng's deal in its entirety, no? Or the 2 max players taking substantial cuts totaling Jules's 12.5m cap hold?
Otherwise by math, assuming PG/LBJ want their maxes, and we still have Deng on the books, it may be mutually exclusive. 
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | I'd rather have a Randle, at age 23, who is worth the max than Lebron coming here at age 34, and all that might mean. Although, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. |
I also think you have to consider the "max" for both.
Lebron for all the amazing positives he would add is close to $40M for a couple years and the moves it will take to make it even possibly realistic.
On the other hand Randle is a young long term option that continues to be a piece of the puzzle for a max of about $20-22M iirc.
Griffin and Milsap are both coveted free agents and will get paid this summer.
Biggest question is can Randle close the gap? And at what point would the front office and in some ways the fans be willing to let one dream die for the benefit of another?
If Randle can improve to an integral cog in the machine by improving his play it is not even close for me. Give me 16/9/5/ 33% 3pt and improved defense and I am paying him.
Obviously any type of team discount is gladly accepted.  |
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Truck Turner
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Something that NOBODY has mentioned is the fact that....Randle might take less money...
Jordan Clarkson could have gotten more money when his contract was due, but he took a bit less to stay with the Lakers. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Truck Turner wrote: | Something that NOBODY has mentioned is the fact that....Randle might take less money...
Jordan Clarkson could have gotten more money when his contract was due, but he took a bit less to stay with the Lakers. |
He has to take less than his cap hold (which is 12.5m). Doubt that he is going THAT low.
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DzLaker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | Randle breakout year
Ingram breakout year
Lonzo starting strong
Let's go lakers! |
I could see all three of those happening. |
And if Jules really breaks out, what will Magic do? This really would put a damper on the 2 max deal. (I'd say let's roll with Jules then!). Options are keep him (no 2 max); let him walk for nothing (no way); or trade him at a lowered cost (b/c teams know you need the cap space). |
Jules breaking out is a good "problem" to have. I see two possibilities. If he moderately breaks out, then that increases his trade value. I think in this scenario they’d still want to move him. The hope is, with the increased trade value they would get enough to move Deng.
(I can see them moving Lopez, Randle, and Clarkson at the deadline and using whatever they get in a trade to pay a team to absorb Deng.)
If he breaks out in a major way, then they stretch Deng, and keep Randle who becomes the 3rd big contract. The two max plan stays in effect. By my calculations, after accounting for stretching Deng and Randle’s cap hold, they could sign LeBron and PG13 if both of them took a $2.3 mil. reduction on their max salary. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| DzLaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | Randle breakout year
Ingram breakout year
Lonzo starting strong
Let's go lakers! |
I could see all three of those happening. |
And if Jules really breaks out, what will Magic do? This really would put a damper on the 2 max deal. (I'd say let's roll with Jules then!). Options are keep him (no 2 max); let him walk for nothing (no way); or trade him at a lowered cost (b/c teams know you need the cap space). |
Jules breaking out is a good "problem" to have. I see two possibilities. If he moderately breaks out, then that increases his trade value. I think in this scenario they’d still want to move him. The hope is, with the increased trade value they would get enough to move Deng.
(I can see them moving Lopez, Randle, and Clarkson at the deadline and using whatever they get in a trade to pay a team to absorb Deng.)
If he breaks out in a major way, then they stretch Deng, and keep Randle who becomes the 3rd big contract. The two max plan stays in effect. By my calculations, after accounting for stretching Deng and Randle’s cap hold, they could sign LeBron and PG13 if both of them took a $2.3 mil. reduction on their max salary. |
Can you show the math? How did you get that? including the 12.5m cap hold?
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Bard207
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| DzLaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | Randle breakout year
Ingram breakout year
Lonzo starting strong
Let's go lakers! |
I could see all three of those happening. |
And if Jules really breaks out, what will Magic do? This really would put a damper on the 2 max deal. (I'd say let's roll with Jules then!). Options are keep him (no 2 max); let him walk for nothing (no way); or trade him at a lowered cost (b/c teams know you need the cap space). |
Jules breaking out is a good "problem" to have. I see two possibilities. If he moderately breaks out, then that increases his trade value. I think in this scenario they’d still want to move him. The hope is, with the increased trade value they would get enough to move Deng.
(I can see them moving Lopez, Randle, and Clarkson at the deadline and using whatever they get in a trade to pay a team to absorb Deng.)
If he breaks out in a major way, then they stretch Deng, and keep Randle who becomes the 3rd big contract. The two max plan stays in effect. By my calculations, after accounting for stretching Deng and Randle’s cap hold, they could sign LeBron and PG13 if both of them took a $2.3 mil. reduction
on their max salary. |
One of the issues about getting two top level players to sign for your suggested discounts is that those contract numbers would have to be agreed to prior to the February 2018 trade deadline. If they (Magic, Jeanie and Pelinka) just assumed that they could get discounts of 7- 8%, there could be problems in July 2018 if the incoming players weren't giving discounts.
Negotiating contracts for the 2018 - 19 season through back channels while the 2017 - 18 season is still ongoing would be quite risky. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
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For those of you worried about his age, I'm pretty sure Lebron at 40 would or could put up better numbers than Randle will in his prime. He also could adjust his game like Kobe to suit his declining athleticism.
I will be rooting hard for Julius to succeed this year, but it makes my head explode when I hear people comparing him to Lebron. If Lebron stopped playing defense and focused on himself, he still could average over 40 points a game. He could also destroy Westbrook's triple double records... but whether you like his personality or not, he cares about winning more than his stats. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | He could also destroy Westbrook's triple double records... but whether you like his personality or not, he cares about winning more than his stats. |
Yeah uh no. That's the farthest from the truth lol
Notice how he never shoots at the end of a quarter from half court. It's a miracle shot either way, but he doesn't shoot it since it hurts his %. All he cared about in the recent finals was getting his triple double.
Stats is everything to him. He's obsessed with his image and legacy
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | He could also destroy Westbrook's triple double records... but whether you like his personality or not, he cares about winning more than his stats. |
Yeah uh no. That's the farthest from the truth lol
Notice how he never shoots at the end of a quarter from half court. It's a miracle shot either way, but he doesn't shoot it since it hurts his %. All he cared about in the recent finals was getting his triple double.
Stats is everything to him. He's obsessed with his image and legacy |
I didn't like Lebron's personality ever since he made that comment about how us common people had to go back to our pathetic lives... and I'm sure he does certain things like most players to preserve his stats... but I think the stat he cares most about are rings and NBA finals. If he played on a rebuilding team like Westbrook and didn't care about getting back to finals... I believe he could easily average a triple/double whenever he wanted. |
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DzLaker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | DzLaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | Randle breakout year
Ingram breakout year
Lonzo starting strong
Let's go lakers! |
I could see all three of those happening. |
And if Jules really breaks out, what will Magic do? This really would put a damper on the 2 max deal. (I'd say let's roll with Jules then!). Options are keep him (no 2 max); let him walk for nothing (no way); or trade him at a lowered cost (b/c teams know you need the cap space). |
Jules breaking out is a good "problem" to have. I see two possibilities. If he moderately breaks out, then that increases his trade value. I think in this scenario they’d still want to move him. The hope is, with the increased trade value they would get enough to move Deng.
(I can see them moving Lopez, Randle, and Clarkson at the deadline and using whatever they get in a trade to pay a team to absorb Deng.)
If he breaks out in a major way, then they stretch Deng, and keep Randle who becomes the 3rd big contract. The two max plan stays in effect. By my calculations, after accounting for stretching Deng and Randle’s cap hold, they could sign LeBron and PG13 if both of them took a $2.3 mil. reduction on their max salary. |
Can you show the math? How did you get that? including the 12.5m cap hold? |
Randle (cap hold) --- $12,500,000
Brandon Ingram - - - $5,757,120
Larry Nance Jr. - - - $2,272,391
Ivica Zubac - - - $1,544,951
Ball --- $6,218,300
Kuzma --- $1,408,200
Hart --- $1,379,300
Thomas --- $1,200,000
4 cap holds ($582,180 * 4) --- $2,328,720
$34,608,982
7,200,000 --- Deng stretched
$41,608,982 --- total cap expenses
$61,191,018 Cap space
$103 mil. Total Cap |
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DzLaker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | DzLaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | Randle breakout year
Ingram breakout year
Lonzo starting strong
Let's go lakers! |
I could see all three of those happening. |
And if Jules really breaks out, what will Magic do? This really would put a damper on the 2 max deal. (I'd say let's roll with Jules then!). Options are keep him (no 2 max); let him walk for nothing (no way); or trade him at a lowered cost (b/c teams know you need the cap space). |
Jules breaking out is a good "problem" to have. I see two possibilities. If he moderately breaks out, then that increases his trade value. I think in this scenario they’d still want to move him. The hope is, with the increased trade value they would get enough to move Deng.
(I can see them moving Lopez, Randle, and Clarkson at the deadline and using whatever they get in a trade to pay a team to absorb Deng.)
If he breaks out in a major way, then they stretch Deng, and keep Randle who becomes the 3rd big contract. The two max plan stays in effect. By my calculations, after accounting for stretching Deng and Randle’s cap hold, they could sign LeBron and PG13 if both of them took a $2.3 mil. reduction
on their max salary. |
One of the issues about getting two top level players to sign for your suggested discounts is that those contract numbers would have to be agreed to prior to the February 2018 trade deadline. If they (Magic, Jeanie and Pelinka) just assumed that they could get discounts of 7- 8%, there could be problems in July 2018 if the incoming players weren't giving discounts.
Negotiating contracts for the 2018 - 19 season through back channels while the 2017 - 18 season is still ongoing would be quite risky. |
Good point.
Still think it's doable. Just use the media. You float that your max contracts will likely have to take 7% discounts. And you see what you hear back. If it's positive, it's worth the risk. If it's negative, you make moves accordingly.
Also, if Randle blows up in a major way, then he would have a lot of trade value. They could still trade him in that scenario and ensure they get enough to move Deng in a trade rather than stretching him. |
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