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Chronicle
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 Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: |
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That production is at least a no. 3 option
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | That production is at least a no. 3 option |
If he can show #3 option production (not on a lottery level team, but playoff contender one), as well as vast improvement 3/D, I'd be more than happy to extend him.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:48 am Post subject: |
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DELETE by jodeke
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Last edited by jodeke on Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MIMLaker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | That production is at least a no. 3 option |
If he can show #3 option production (not on a lottery level team, but playoff contender one), as well as vast improvement 3/D, I'd be more than happy to extend him. |
I would agree, but it would be tough to quantify. Draymond-level defense was enough on a team that had the firepower of Steph and Klay and the defense and leadership of Iggy.
But on THIS team? We know what Draymond means to a championship team. I would LOVE to see Julius have that kind of sea-change-effect here, but Draymond's 10 and 8 and high-level D may not move the needle enough to get MAX-level money.
I hope he really steps up on BOTH ends so we don't have to hunt for a 2nd MAX guy out there. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| DzLaker wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | DzLaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | DzLaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | Randle breakout year
Ingram breakout year
Lonzo starting strong
Let's go lakers!  |
I could see all three of those happening. |
And if Jules really breaks out, what will Magic do? This really would put a damper on the 2 max deal. (I'd say let's roll with Jules then!). Options are keep him (no 2 max); let him walk for nothing (no way); or trade him at a lowered cost (b/c teams know you need the cap space). |
LINK
Jules breaking out is a good "problem" to have. I see two possibilities. If he moderately breaks out, then that increases his trade value. I think in this scenario they’d still want to move him. The hope is, with the increased trade value they would get enough to move Deng.
(I can see them moving Lopez, Randle, and Clarkson at the deadline and using whatever they get in a trade to pay a team to absorb Deng.)
If he breaks out in a major way, then they stretch Deng, and keep Randle who becomes the 3rd big contract. The two max plan stays in effect. By my calculations, after accounting for stretching Deng and Randle’s cap hold, they could sign LeBron and PG13 if both of them took a $2.3 mil. reduction on their max salary. |
Can you show the math? How did you get that? including the 12.5m cap hold? |
Randle (cap hold) --- $12,500,000
Brandon Ingram - - - $5,757,120
Larry Nance Jr. - - - $2,272,391
Ivica Zubac - - - $1,544,951
Ball --- $6,218,300
Kuzma --- $1,408,200
Hart --- $1,379,300
Thomas --- $1,200,000
4 cap holds ($582,180 * 4) --- $2,328,720
$34,608,982
7,200,000 --- Deng stretched
$41,608,982 --- total cap expenses
$61,191,018 Cap space
$103 mil. Total Cap |
The minimum salary is going to be $815,615 for the 2017 - 18 season and then will be adjusted in future seasons by the percentage changes in the salary cap.
For now, I am using $830,000 as a guesstimate. Even if turns out to be low by $10,000; the overall impact won't be significant. |
where are you getting that number? I see $582,180 in Coon's FAQ.
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DoubleClutch
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | $5,757,120........Brandon Ingram
$2,272,391........Larry Nance Jr.
$1,544,951........Ivica Zubac
$7,461,960........Ball
$1,689,840........Kuzma
$1,655,160........Hart
$1,378,242........Bryant
$830,000...........Minimum Salary for 2018 – 19
$830,000...........Minimum Salary for 2018 – 19
$830,000...........Minimum Salary for 2018 – 19
$830,000...........Minimum Salary for 2018 – 19
$29,000,000......Top Player #1
$29,000,000......Top Player #2
$12,447,727......Julius Randle (cap hold)
$7,362,000........Luol Deng (stretch waived)
$0.....................Jordan Clarkson
$0.....................B Lopez
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$102,889,391
It would be roughly a $2 million discount by a mid tier Max that should be getting $30,900,000.
For a top Max such as Lebron who should be getting $36,050,000, it would be a $7 million discount.
If the plan morphs into pairing two mid tier Max players like Paul George and Cousins, it would be quite a gamble to make the WCF because neither might be a top 10 player. |
Thanks. Yeah, LBJ taking a 7m/year discount for 4 years is a non starter IMO. |
Ugh
Forgot to back out two minimum salary slots.
$5,757,120........Brandon Ingram
$2,272,391........Larry Nance Jr.
$1,544,951........Ivica Zubac
$7,461,960........Ball
$1,689,840........Kuzma
$1,655,160........Hart
$1,378,242........Bryant
$830,000...........Minimum Salary for 2018 – 19
$830,000...........Minimum Salary for 2018 – 19
$29,000,000......Top Player #1
$29,000,000......Top Player #2
$12,447,727......Julius Randle (cap hold)
$7,362,000........Luol Deng (stretch waived)
$0.....................Jordan Clarkson
$0.....................B Lopez
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$101,229,391 |
Does Bryant count if he stays on a 2-way contract all year? My understanding is that if he plays under the max days he only counts as a G-league contract. Correct?
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| danzag wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | If LBJ/PG13 are willing to take paycuts for the Lakers to keep someone like Jules, more power to them. |
LeBron is on his away to become a billionaire. I hope he can take a paycut. |
He has already let it be known that he is finished with paycuts. If he comes here it will be for the money, the Kobe treatment and the LFT.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | MIMLaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MIMLaker wrote: | What do kind of stats do you think julius needs to average for the team to want to keep him?
I'm thinking he needs to be at least an 18 and 10 guy, especially given that we need scoring punch with Russell gone, and we need more rebounding with Lopez barely pulling down 5 a game. Having Julius' playmaking ability is nice, but the need for it should drop with Ball on the team and with Jordan presumably getting more time with Russell gone.
I think that Julius needs to give more Blake-Griffin like numbers instead of Draymond-Green-type numbers if he's going to stick around. |
Not just about stats.
DEFENSE.
3 ball.
Those two are more important to me than raw numbers. If he puts up 15/8 but is a defensive monster and hits 35% of 3s, he may be worth it. |
But say he is 15 and 8 and actually gives near Draymond-level defense in terms of positional match-ups, effective switching, and smart team defense. Will that be enough for a max or near-max deal, even if he doesn't prove to be a No. 1/ No. 2/ No. 3 offensive option? |
Umm Draymond level defense is a max contract. Not many around. |
Yes, if he shows he can effectively guard 1-5, the FO would be morons to get rid of him.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Listened to Ireland and Ingram today. Ireland says Randle looks like a different person, mentioned his handle. Ingram agreed, said Jules has been committed and at the gym every day too.
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1hu2ren3dui4
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Listened to Ireland and Ingram today. Ireland says Randle looks like a different person, mentioned his handle. Ingram agreed, said Jules has been committed and at the gym every day too. |
Trade value up |
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Rivershow
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | Listened to Ireland and Ingram today. Ireland says Randle looks like a different person, mentioned his handle. Ingram agreed, said Jules has been committed and at the gym every day too. |
Trade value up |
It's kinda pathetic how the first words out of someone's mouth about our players getting better is trade value smh. |
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22
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Rivershow wrote: | | 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | Listened to Ireland and Ingram today. Ireland says Randle looks like a different person, mentioned his handle. Ingram agreed, said Jules has been committed and at the gym every day too. |
Trade value up |
It's kinda pathetic how the first words out of someone's mouth about our players getting better is trade value smh. |
It really is |
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nash
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | That production is at least a no. 3 option |
If he can show #3 option production (not on a lottery level team, but playoff contender one), as well as vast improvement 3/D, I'd be more than happy to extend him. |
Julius with 3&D is a stud, the lack of shooting and defensive presence are his major flaws because with a jump shot he has the speed to finish at the rim before his man can recover and there is not many players his size that can guard someone like CP3 on the perimeter. |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Listened to Ireland and Ingram today. Ireland says Randle looks like a different person, mentioned his handle. Ingram agreed, said Jules has been committed and at the gym every day too. |
like max offer kind of difference? |
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av3773
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:03 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree he's going to have show max level potential otherwise the Lakers will move him to bring in 2 known top tier FA.
Randle has always been a die hard laker so it's hard not to root for him...for me it's just whether he can evolve his game...what he does he already does very well, but it's those other things he needs to work on which would really solidify his place on the squad, hopefully he is able to do that, because then it gives the Lakers even more flexibility in terms of how they might approach things not to mention the team would markedly improve if Randle is able to give an A+ effort more consistently |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:33 am Post subject: |
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A bit unfair that he missed a whole year his rookie year. Maybe he works out some things in his game, maybe not. But he is on the clock.
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hydrohead
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | Listened to Ireland and Ingram today. Ireland says Randle looks like a different person, mentioned his handle. Ingram agreed, said Jules has been committed and at the gym every day too. |
Trade value up |
It's kinda pathetic how the first words out of someone's mouth about our players getting better is trade value smh. |
It really is |
yeah guys it really is...
so can we bring pritchard to see randle work out!?!?!
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nash
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Listened to Ireland and Ingram today. Ireland says Randle looks like a different person, mentioned his handle. Ingram agreed, said Jules has been committed and at the gym every day too. |
It is intriguing. I mean, Randle is stronger and faster than most players his size, if he can put his head straight and commit to conditioning, defense and improving his jumper he can be putting himself in condition to earn some big money. |
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Chase.button07
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:43 am Post subject: |
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So if we could trade Deng, we will have enough cap space for 1 LeBron max, 1 pg max and QO for randle
Cap experts please confirm
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blackmamba08
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| For me it would be really unwise to trade him if its not for George. I think next year will be his breakout year and it will be interesting to see where he is going in terms of shooting, focus and his "head". Imagine if he is going to put 18p/9rb/4as and >30% shooting for 3pt. In that case I can imagine considering him for some big deal from our side. He will be just 23 next summer. |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Chase.button07 wrote: | So if we could trade Deng, we will have enough cap space for 1 LeBron max, 1 pg max and QO for randle
Cap experts please confirm |
can't you just sign Randle over the cap? |
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Chase.button07
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Chase.button07 wrote: | So if we could trade Deng, we will have enough cap space for 1 LeBron max, 1 pg max and QO for randle
Cap experts please confirm |
can't you just sign Randle over the cap? |
Yes but for that we have to give him qualifying offer 1st which is around 12.5
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Chase.button07 wrote: | So if we could trade Deng, we will have enough cap space for 1 LeBron max, 1 pg max and QO for randle
Cap experts please confirm |
If we trade Deng outright, yes. But how are we doing that when no team would take an unprotected 1st for Moz? It took DLO, a still promising asset, to unload Moz. It would take Lonzo or Ingram to unload Deng, and that's a no go.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Chase.button07
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chase.button07 wrote: | So if we could trade Deng, we will have enough cap space for 1 LeBron max, 1 pg max and QO for randle
Cap experts please confirm |
If we trade Deng outright, yes. But how are we doing that when no team would take an unprotected 1st for Moz? It took DLO, a still promising asset, to unload Moz. It would take Lonzo or Ingram to unload Deng, and that's a no go. |
I think somebody will take him when only 2 years are remaining.
Let's hope
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