OFFICIAL JULIUS RANDLE THREAD!!
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defense
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject:

I agree that Randle is a more superior physical specimen than Kuzma. He's big, fast and strong but I disagree that he is a better ball handler or finishes better. I see things the exact opposite of LS. I think there is nothing that Randle does better than Kuzma from a strictly basketball point of view. Although I've only seen Kuzma play in 6 or 7 summer league games. Randle has 2 years of NBA play for us to see what he can do, at least so far. I think the rational argument can be made that Kuzma hasn't done anything yet. That I can deal with but he certainly has a crap ton of potential to be very good and maybe better than Randle.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
I agree that Randle is a more superior physical specimen than Kuzma. He's big, fast and strong but I disagree that he is a better ball handler or finishes better. I see things the exact opposite of LS. I think there is nothing that Randle does better than Kuzma from a strictly basketball point of view. Although I've only seen Kuzma play in 6 or 7 summer league games. Randle has 2 years of NBA play for us to see what he can do, at least so far. I think the rational argument can be made that Kuzma hasn't done anything yet. That I can deal with but he certainly has a crap ton of potential to be very good and maybe better than Randle.


Randle can still get better though. People writing him off like he can't improve. At least wait till Preaseason/Regular Season before you start proclaiming Kuzma's potential to be greater than Randle's.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject:

I remember last year when Nance was looking amazing in Summer League and like a point forward and everyone was saying he was gonna replace Randle in the starting lineup too...
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
I agree that Randle is a more superior physical specimen than Kuzma. He's big, fast and strong but I disagree that he is a better ball handler or finishes better. I see things the exact opposite of LS. I think there is nothing that Randle does better than Kuzma from a strictly basketball point of view. Although I've only seen Kuzma play in 6 or 7 summer league games. Randle has 2 years of NBA play for us to see what he can do, at least so far. I think the rational argument can be made that Kuzma hasn't done anything yet. That I can deal with but he certainly has a crap ton of potential to be very good and maybe better than Randle.
other than being really fast in transition, I don't really see how Randle meshes particularly well with Ball. He's not a catch and shoot guy, he's not particularly active in terms of off ball movement. He passes really well, but he doesn't make quick decisions. If he can break the habit of letting the ball stick to his hands.

I just checked out the transition stats that Greenfrog referenced yesterday. Randle is at 1.04 PPP in transition, which is 38th percentile. Nance put up 1.44 PPP, which is 95th percentile, though he had lower frequency. Nance is also in the 44th percentile in cuts to the basket, compared to 26th percentile for Randle.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject:

dao wrote:
...other than being really fast in transition, I don't really see how Randle meshes particularly well with Ball. He's not a catch and shoot guy, he's not particularly active in terms of off ball movement. He passes really well, but he doesn't make quick decisions. If he can break the habit of letting the ball stick to his hands.

I just checked out the transition stats that Greenfrog referenced yesterday. Randle is at 1.04 PPP in transition, which is 38th percentile. Nance put up 1.44 PPP, which is 95th percentile, though he had lower frequency. Nance is also in the 44th percentile in cuts to the basket, compared to 26th percentile for Randle.


Although we haven't seen Randle and Ball play together, I agree with your assessment. Kuzma is more versatile than Randle, shoots 3s better and is more active defensively. If we going to be as effective as possible pushing the ball, I just think Kuzma is better value than Randle.

I wouldn't mind seeing Randle sent out in a package for a salary dump of Deng's contract.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
I remember last year when Nance was looking amazing in Summer League and like a point forward and everyone was saying he was gonna replace Randle in the starting lineup too...
he had a better BPM, RPM, and NETRTG than Randle, and in the eyes of many posters, should have been the starter. But ultimately Nance's limitations on offense made it tougher to pull the trigger on benching the higher draft pick even if his performance is probably a little better.

Kuzma is a different beast though. If he's a legit 36% three point shooter AND a solid defender, he will be very tough to keep on the bench for a guy that can't defend or shoot. Randle has to step his game up big time if he wants to remain a Laker.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject:

Rivershow wrote:
defense wrote:
I agree that Randle is a more superior physical specimen than Kuzma. He's big, fast and strong but I disagree that he is a better ball handler or finishes better. I see things the exact opposite of LS. I think there is nothing that Randle does better than Kuzma from a strictly basketball point of view. Although I've only seen Kuzma play in 6 or 7 summer league games. Randle has 2 years of NBA play for us to see what he can do, at least so far. I think the rational argument can be made that Kuzma hasn't done anything yet. That I can deal with but he certainly has a crap ton of potential to be very good and maybe better than Randle.


Randle can still get better though. People writing him off like he can't improve. At least wait till Preaseason/Regular Season before you start proclaiming Kuzma's potential to be greater than Randle's.


1)I can only speak for myself but I think Randle will continue to improve and may one day be great.

2)I haven't proclaimed anything other than I think Kuzma is more skilled currently. If you look closer you will see the "MAYBE" in there.

3)I'm only giving my honest opinion. I don't care about being wrong or right. If Randle turns into a beast I will be happy. I'm not choosing one Laker over the other. That isn't how I approach the squad.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject:

M2K wrote:
dao wrote:
...other than being really fast in transition, I don't really see how Randle meshes particularly well with Ball. He's not a catch and shoot guy, he's not particularly active in terms of off ball movement. He passes really well, but he doesn't make quick decisions. If he can break the habit of letting the ball stick to his hands.

I just checked out the transition stats that Greenfrog referenced yesterday. Randle is at 1.04 PPP in transition, which is 38th percentile. Nance put up 1.44 PPP, which is 95th percentile, though he had lower frequency. Nance is also in the 44th percentile in cuts to the basket, compared to 26th percentile for Randle.


Although we haven't seen Randle and Ball play together, I agree with your assessment. Kuzma is more versatile than Randle, shoots 3s better and is more active defensively. If we going to be as effective as possible pushing the ball, I just think Kuzma is better value than Randle.

I wouldn't mind seeing Randle sent out in a package for a salary dump of Deng's contract.
with Randle in a contract year, it's very unlikely that he has enough value to dump Deng's contract. The best course of action is to eep him for now and hope that his defense and shooting improves. If he doesn't show much improvement, then you trade him for the best package you can get. But you'd be lucky to get a late first rounder.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Rivershow wrote:
defense wrote:
I agree that Randle is a more superior physical specimen than Kuzma. He's big, fast and strong but I disagree that he is a better ball handler or finishes better. I see things the exact opposite of LS. I think there is nothing that Randle does better than Kuzma from a strictly basketball point of view. Although I've only seen Kuzma play in 6 or 7 summer league games. Randle has 2 years of NBA play for us to see what he can do, at least so far. I think the rational argument can be made that Kuzma hasn't done anything yet. That I can deal with but he certainly has a crap ton of potential to be very good and maybe better than Randle.


Randle can still get better though. People writing him off like he can't improve. At least wait till Preaseason/Regular Season before you start proclaiming Kuzma's potential to be greater than Randle's.


1)I can only speak for myself but I think Randle will continue to improve and may one day be great.

2)I haven't proclaimed anything other than I think Kuzma is more skilled currently. If you look closer you will see the "MAYBE" in there.

3)I'm only giving my honest opinion. I don't care about being wrong or right. If Randle turns into a beast I will be happy. I'm not choosing one Laker over the other. That isn't how I approach the squad.


I didn't proclaim you to be choosing who over what so don't put words into my mouth. The point of my post is that while Kuzma is a better fit right now, I would like to see how improved Randle will be coming into THIS season before we proclaim how much better Kuzma will be than Randle.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
I remember last year when Nance was looking amazing in Summer League and like a point forward and everyone was saying he was gonna replace Randle in the starting lineup too...


And in that recent interview Luke Walton had with Zach Lowe he said he was making sure guys earned their playtime and spots. Part of why Ingram wasn't starting early in the season was that Luke felt he hadn't earned his spot.

For all the talk of Nance being better than Randle, he never took that starting gig. It's not like Luke was playing favorites either because we saw him bench D'Angelo late in games and had him coming off the bench at points too.

I think the main thing Luke want from Julius is consistency. Everything people swear he's incapable of doing he's done for entire games, he just hasn't been able to do it for a long stretch of games.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject:

The Grind wrote:
dao wrote:
defense wrote:
I hope you're watching Kuzma julius

Don't expect you to shoot like him but you better get your ass out on that break and make yourself available. Also be active defensively.
Randle's inconsistent motor has arguably been his greatest weakness, even more so than the jumper and the defense. Most of his defensive woes have actually been motor related; he plays like he's in a daze most of the time. He's a different player when he's locked in.

The interesting thing here is that Lonzo might rub off on Randle. If Randle is sprinting up the court like a mad man on every play, getting easy buckets in transition, he might be locked in a lot more than we've seen in the past two years. That's the thing to watch for with Randle this year. If Lonzo's infectious style infects Randle, he might turn into a very useful player.

Hopefully Randle starts making quick decisions as well rather than letting the ball stick to his hands. His passing could be a great asset if he breaks the habit of over-dribbling. Hopefully Lonzo rubs off on Randle.


Ya... Lonzo effect + contract year should make for a motivated JR. If not then God help him.


We need players that are always motivated, not only when they want. to be
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject:

I'll repeat, other than 3pt shooting and, to some extent, defensive versatility, there is nothing that Kuzma does better than Randle. It's summer league. Kuzma has done what he has done against player who either won't make the NBA or, if they do, sit on the end of a bench. Randle has done what he has done against NBA all-stars, starters and all-nba defenders... and, even against those guys, he has looks more skilled as a ball handler, scorer and facilitator than Kuzma, making no mention of being quicker and more explosive both in the full court and in the half court.

I'm not trying be down on Kuzma nor make this into a Randle v. Kuzma thing. I think Kuzma has a lot of potential (especially as a 3 and D role player). However, its just that I can see where this might be going. People need to calm their expectations for him a bit, especially for his rookie season. There is a legit chance that, unless there is an injury, Kuzma doesn't even get much playing time. We all need to be prepared for that, prepared for the fact that he may not look nearly as good in the regular season as he has against dleague talent, and be prepared to be patient with him.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Why do we have to get rid of one. Why not keep both. Heck if lopez is a one year situation, we can keep Nance too



Who provides the missing cap space?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject:

Both Julius Randle and Kyle Kuzma will be 22 years old on opening day this season (although Julius is born a year earlier).
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
^Not true. There is room for Randle, George and Lebron with minor paycuts by George and Lebron. The only reason you give Randle a max is if he proves himself to be a max player this year. If that's the case, then its possible George and Lebron take small paycuts because they want a player like that on their team (and for some other reasons as well).


Minor?
Lebron will have to cut about 7 millions a year, PG 2.5.
Not doable.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I'll repeat, other than 3pt shooting and, to some extent, defensive versatility, there is nothing that Kuzma does better than Randle. It's summer league. Kuzma has done what he has done against player who either won't make the NBA or, if they do, sit on the end of a bench. Randle has done what he has done against NBA all-stars, starters and all-nba defenders... and, even against those guys, he has looks more skilled as a ball handler, scorer and facilitator than Kuzma, making no mention of being quicker and more explosive both in the full court and in the half court.

I'm not trying be down on Kuzma nor make this into a Randle v. Kuzma thing. I think Kuzma has a lot of potential (especially as a 3 and D role player). However, its just that I can see where this might be going. People need to calm their expectations for him a bit, especially for his rookie season. There is a legit chance that, unless there is an injury, Kuzma doesn't even get much playing time. We all need to be prepared for that, prepared for the fact that he may not look nearly as good in the regular season as he has against dleague talent, and be prepared to be patient with him.


Yup. A lot of people are impatient. They want to fast forward the conversation instead of letting things play out. If Randle improves then Kuzma will probably find himself 3rd in the rotation or subbing for Nance. Or if Randle doesn't improve much then Kuzma will get his chance. All of these questions will be answered eventually but not after Summer league games lol.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject:

oldlakerfan wrote:
You need multiple guys in the rotations. Randle gives this team the rebounding it needs. I could see Kuz playing with Randle, BI, Lopez and Ball.

Look for Randle to breakout and play really good defense, take his playmaking to a new level and really benefit from Ball.

I think Kuzman forces his way into the lineup and along with Clarkson is the key reserve on the 2nd team. He may play some 2 so Clarkson can rest Ball. Nance has to fight Deng for a spot in the rotation.

Randle rebounding is important on this team as it is not a strength of Lopez or BI at this point. Kuzman is okay but it is not a strength of his either. Nance is a decent rebounder but nowhere near the class that Randle is in. Ball should help in this category.


Kuzma is a PF, not a SG.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject:

rogers49 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
^Not true. There is room for Randle, George and Lebron with minor paycuts by George and Lebron. The only reason you give Randle a max is if he proves himself to be a max player this year. If that's the case, then its possible George and Lebron take small paycuts because they want a player like that on their team (and for some other reasons as well).


Minor?
Lebron will have to cut about 7 millions a year, PG 2.5.
Not doable.


More like 5 million for Lebron and 2 million for PG. The 2 million paycut for PG is likely because he'll want a 1+1 and then another 1+1 deal so he can get the veteran max once he hits his 10th year. Lebron is a bigger sell, but, again, if Randle shows himself to be a potentially dominant/all-star caliber player next season, that sell is a lot easier.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject:

Rivershow wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I'll repeat, other than 3pt shooting and, to some extent, defensive versatility, there is nothing that Kuzma does better than Randle. It's summer league. Kuzma has done what he has done against player who either won't make the NBA or, if they do, sit on the end of a bench. Randle has done what he has done against NBA all-stars, starters and all-nba defenders... and, even against those guys, he has looks more skilled as a ball handler, scorer and facilitator than Kuzma, making no mention of being quicker and more explosive both in the full court and in the half court.

I'm not trying be down on Kuzma nor make this into a Randle v. Kuzma thing. I think Kuzma has a lot of potential (especially as a 3 and D role player). However, its just that I can see where this might be going. People need to calm their expectations for him a bit, especially for his rookie season. There is a legit chance that, unless there is an injury, Kuzma doesn't even get much playing time. We all need to be prepared for that, prepared for the fact that he may not look nearly as good in the regular season as he has against dleague talent, and be prepared to be patient with him.


Yup. A lot of people are impatient. They want to fast forward the conversation instead of letting things play out. If Randle improves then Kuzma will probably find himself 3rd in the rotation or subbing for Nance. Or if Randle doesn't improve much then Kuzma will get his chance. All of these questions will be answered eventually but not after Summer league games lol.


Kuzma may not even get much of a chance even if Randle is the same player he was last year without any real improvement. It takes a lot for a player to go from 27th pick rookie to starter on an NBA team over a 3 year vet who, in his own right, is still only 22 years old (8 months older than Kuzma). Randle rightly or wrongly, is going to get 30+ minutes per game next year. Nance is going to get the minutes not given to Randle, Zubac and Lopez. Then, there is Deng. There just aren't a lot of minutes to go around.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject:

I'm going to need to see Kuzma do what he's doing against legit NBA teams before concluding he should get minutes over Randle or Nance. Last summer league, we had people gushing over Nance and saying he'd be the clear upgrade over Randle based on his play, and he never got close to showing that during the regular season on a consistent basis. Summer league and the NBA are different beasts. It's encouraging to see Kuzma killing it, but it doesn't mean a lot just yet, it just shows that he has some tools. A lot of different factors could affect his ability to show out in the NBA, primarily of which would be much fewer opportunities and shots and a smaller role and how he adjusts to that.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
I agree that Randle is a more superior physical specimen than Kuzma. He's big, fast and strong but I disagree that he is a better ball handler or finishes better. I see things the exact opposite of LS. I think there is nothing that Randle does better than Kuzma from a strictly basketball point of view. Although I've only seen Kuzma play in 6 or 7 summer league games. Randle has 2 years of NBA play for us to see what he can do, at least so far. I think the rational argument can be made that Kuzma hasn't done anything yet. That I can deal with but he certainly has a crap ton of potential to be very good and maybe better than Randle.


Randle is a superior athlete, finisher, ball handler, rebounder, passer, transition player, actually I think Kuzma is only better at shooting and that's about it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject:

I like that we have a couple of PF's (Nance & Kuz) behind Randle nipping at his heels for minutes. PT should be based on merit.

When Randle moves to C to backup BLO i see Kuzma getting minutes if Nance can't stretch the floor. IMO Randle is a beast - Kuz is more of a threat to Nance for PT than Randle.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject:

Kava wrote:
I like that we have a couple of PF's (Nance & Kuz) behind Randle nipping at his heels for minutes. PT should be based on merit.

When Randle moves to C to backup BLO i see Kuzma getting minutes if Nance can't stretch the floor. IMO Randle is a beast - Kuz is more of a threat to Nance for PT than Randle.


Agreed.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
I'm going to need to see Kuzma do what he's doing against legit NBA teams before concluding he should get minutes over Randle or Nance. Last summer league, we had people gushing over Nance and saying he'd be the clear upgrade over Randle based on his play, and he never got close to showing that during the regular season on a consistent basis. Summer league and the NBA are different beasts. It's encouraging to see Kuzma killing it, but it doesn't mean a lot just yet, it just shows that he has some tools. A lot of different factors could affect his ability to show out in the NBA, primarily of which would be much fewer opportunities and shots and a smaller role and how he adjusts to that.
disagree completely...the advanced stats strongly favored Nance over Randle. The team performed better with Nance. I find it highly unlikely that rookie Kuzma will be good enough to be a clear upgrade over Randle, but it's possible in theory. His jumper is looking extremely pure right now. We'll have to see how it translates into actual games. His shooting was reportedly stellar in the pre-draft workouts, it was stellar in the pre-draft scrimmage, and it's been stellar in summer league. We don't know how good of a shooter this guy is. If he's a legit sniper, say, 37% three point shooter, while also being a better team defender than Randle, it's going to be hard to justify keeping him on the bench. Floor spacing at the 4 spot is a very, very big deal. It's far more valuable to the team's offense than what Randle did for us last year.

Randle might much better this year, so he certainly deserves a chance to prove himself. But a legit sniper at PF that can also pass a little bit is easily an offensive upgrade over 2nd year Randle. Now, is Kuzma actually a sniper? Is third year Randle going to be a different player than second year Randle? That's yet to be seen. One additional caveat is Nance is also working on his three point shooting this offseason. If he's knocking down threes, he's easily our best PF. If Randle is knocking down threes and playing solid D, he's an All Star.


There are really too many variables to predict what's going to happen. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.


Last edited by dao on Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Do it Mitch!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Do it Mitch! wrote:
Going to be an interesting year for Ju. I just feel like a lot of his rebounding stats are empty because he gets offenseive rebounds off of his own misses.



Feel what you want but stats prove you wrong.


Yes, that's correct. Randles low post offense is so graceful, he almost never misses around the rim.
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