OFFICIAL JULIUS RANDLE THREAD!!
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nash
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:

We could sign two max's simply by moving Clarkson and stretching Deng.

The 'ideal' situation would be to move Clarkson and Deng and not take salary back.

But if we moved Clarkson and stretched Deng as a last resort, we'd still have enough for two max's AND bringing back Randle.


In this case sure, but I don't believe we can get rid of Deng packaging JC with him without taking any salary back. Stretching Deng his contract is going to hurt us for a few more seasons and we are going to be still short of two normal max contracts and way short of LeBron/Westbrook contracts.

I can't count on two superstars letting a couple of millions on the table or several millions in LeBron/Westbrook case to allow us to re-sign Randle.

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng. Not an easy deal, we had to move a better prospect to get rid of Mozgov contract and they have a Russian owner, I don't believe we would be able to find other takers waiting for a better deal and Deng contract is worse than Mozgov contract in several ways.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

We could sign two max's simply by moving Clarkson and stretching Deng.

The 'ideal' situation would be to move Clarkson and Deng and not take salary back.

But if we moved Clarkson and stretched Deng as a last resort, we'd still have enough for two max's AND bringing back Randle.


In this case sure, but I don't believe we can get rid of Deng packaging JC with him without taking any salary back. Stretching Deng his contract is going to hurt us for a few more seasons and we are going to be still short of two normal max contracts and way short of LeBron/Westbrook contracts.

I can't count on two superstars letting a couple of millions on the table or several millions in LeBron/Westbrook case to allow us to re-sign Randle.

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng. Not an easy deal, we had to move a better prospect to get rid of Mozgov contract and they have a Russian owner, I don't believe we would be able to find other takers waiting for a better deal and Deng contract is worse than Mozgov contract in several ways.
Unfortunately, this may be true.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.


I don't think so because their combined salaries would be too high. If Deng goes out it will be with picks I think
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.


I don't think so because their combined salaries would be too high. If Deng goes out it will be with picks I think


Well Clarkson is paid more than Randle. So we don't necessarily disagree about pairing Deng/Clarkson for an expiring as opposed to Deng/Randle.

I don't know what picks we can offer. I don't think we have a 2018 1st rounder, do we? Either way. A multi-team trade is probably necessary if we find a way to ditch Deng.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
22 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.


I don't think so because their combined salaries would be too high. If Deng goes out it will be with picks I think


Well Clarkson is paid more than Randle. So we don't necessarily disagree about pairing Deng/Clarkson for an expiring as opposed to Deng/Randle.

I don't know what picks we can offer. I don't think we have a 2018 1st rounder, do we? Either way. A multi-team trade is probably necessary if we find a way to ditch Deng.


JC makes more rn, but if Julius has a big year his salary the following season will be higher than JCs $12M.


For me I'm waiting to see how the year plays out. Too many variables right now.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

We could sign two max's simply by moving Clarkson and stretching Deng.

The 'ideal' situation would be to move Clarkson and Deng and not take salary back.

But if we moved Clarkson and stretched Deng as a last resort, we'd still have enough for two max's AND bringing back Randle.


In this case sure, but I don't believe we can get rid of Deng packaging JC with him without taking any salary back. Stretching Deng his contract is going to hurt us for a few more seasons and we are going to be still short of two normal max contracts and way short of LeBron/Westbrook contracts.

I can't count on two superstars letting a couple of millions on the table or several millions in LeBron/Westbrook case to allow us to re-sign Randle.

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng. Not an easy deal, we had to move a better prospect to get rid of Mozgov contract and they have a Russian owner, I don't believe we would be able to find other takers waiting for a better deal and Deng contract is worse than Mozgov contract in several ways.


Prepare to get a large contract in return for a deal like that. Deng isn't attractive, and an upcoming FA isn't attractive either. You have to pay to get rid of that. You would probably have to add a young prospect on a rookie contract.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.


Doing any kind of deal like that before you have any confirmation of a max player coming would be one of the dumbest things we could do.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.


If Randle does that why do you trade him? That would be dumb.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
kikanga wrote:
nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.


If Randle does that why do you trade him? That would be dumb.


I'm willing to ditch anybody on this roster depending on what players are coming in.
But your comment is right. That's kinda how these things work. The only way you get a player you really want is giving up on a player you really don't want to. Unless you're GS. They are the exception. They kept all their studs. And were still able to bring in a recent MVP. I've never seen 2 out of the last 4 MVPs playing on the same team before them (technically when they got Durant it was 2 out of the last 3 MVPS, even more eye popping).
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
kikanga wrote:
nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.


If Randle does that why do you trade him? That would be dumb.


Randle has to really balls out outplaying all stars like PG13 and Westbrook or it is not dumb, it is a bless if becomes good enough to dump a terrible contract like Deng.

Keeping the cap even if we can't sign two max free agents is a must, you don't want to spend the money you saved to sign a superstar on players that aren't going to turn you a contender.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
kikanga wrote:
nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.


Doing any kind of deal like that before you have any confirmation of a max player coming would be one of the dumbest things we could do.


Agreed. I'm tired of swinging for the fences when we have 0% chance of landing a top tier FA.
But if assurances are made. Then I'm cool with parting ways with Randle, Clarkson, KCP, and Lopez.
Even without assurances made. I'm cool with ditching Deng.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
kikanga wrote:
nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.


If Randle does that why do you trade him? That would be dumb.


Randle has to really balls out outplaying all stars like PG13 and Westbrook or it is not dumb, it is a bless if becomes good enough to dump a terrible contract like Deng.

Keeping the cap even if we can't sign two max free agents is a must, you don't want to spend the money you saved to sign a superstar on players that aren't going to turn you a contender.


No he doesn't.

Age is a factor in this, by the end of next season Julius will be 23 years old. The second contract a player gets isn't just based on their current performance but also how good they project to be moving forward. If it's more clear that Julius is putting it all together and is showing more concrete signs of being a perennial all star you lock him in.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:43 pm    Post subject:

Truck Turner wrote:
Age is a factor in this, by the end of next season Julius will be 23 years old. The second contract a player gets isn't just based on their current performance but also how good they project to be moving forward. If it's more clear that Julius is putting it all together and is showing more concrete signs of being a perennial all star you lock him in.


Not to mention his cap hold is 1/3 of what those big name vets will require to sign. The ability to go over the cap to resign your own free agents is a major bonus. There is no situation (unless they all took noteworthy paycuts) where for example you could sign 3 of the big name free agents next year. There are numerous ways you could get to two of them though and then resign Randle if they decide to go that route. Not to mention if he plays well you can hold on to him and decide whether to move him next Summer depending on how free agency goes.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
kikanga wrote:
nash wrote:

The scenario that I believe is more plausible is shipping an improved Randle to get rid of Deng.


Been saying the same thing for a while now. And that's if Randle BALLS OUT! I mean, he would have to exceed everyone's expectations. That guy may be good enough sweetener to turn Deng into an expiring contract at trade deadline.


If Randle does that why do you trade him? That would be dumb.


Randle has to really balls out outplaying all stars like PG13 and Westbrook or it is not dumb, it is a bless if becomes good enough to dump a terrible contract like Deng.

Keeping the cap even if we can't sign two max free agents is a must, you don't want to spend the money you saved to sign a superstar on players that aren't going to turn you a contender.


No player is going to turn us into a contender in the next 3 seasons or so. But keep striving to be mediocre and capped out.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject:

If Randle is balling why would we use him to dump Deng over younger players and youth?

A Randle trade would be a team agreeing to take on 30mil+ salary and that doesn't seem very likely. More likely would be a 3 team trade, which also pushes makes the deal less likely.

Maybe but I don't see it. I'd rather keep the 23 year old incredibly talented player than future picks and some of the younger players. We could even flip Lopez for a pick at the deadline as well to sweeten the deal.

Like 22 said though, there are too many variables right now. I would need to write an essay to address all of them and how the various outcomes would/could influence the Lakers plan.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject:

Roon wrote:
If Randle is balling why would we use him to dump Deng over younger players and youth?

A Randle trade would be a team agreeing to take on 30mil+ salary and that doesn't seem very likely. More likely would be a 3 team trade, which also pushes makes the deal less likely.

Maybe but I don't see it. I'd rather keep the 23 year old incredibly talented player than future picks and some of the younger players. We could even flip Lopez for a pick at the deadline as well to sweeten the deal.

Like 22 said though, there are too many variables right now. I would need to write an essay to address all of them and how the various outcomes would/could influence the Lakers plan.

Exactly. I hate to post about it cuz people get trade happy enough as it is on LG, But the likelihood hood is guys like Kuz get packaged to get rid of Deng due to their lower salaries and relative freshness in the league
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject:

I think a lot will also depend on Kuzma's production out of the gate.

Even if Randle shows improvement in the two main areas, if Kuzma consistently balls out like he did in Summer League, Randle is probably a goner either way just because Kuzma is much cheeper for 4 years and Randle is due for an extension.

It's kinda a big if but I think that's a factor to consider too.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
I think a lot will also depend on Kuzma's production out of the gate.

Even if Randle shows improvement in the two main areas, if Kuzma consistently balls out like he did in Summer League, Randle is probably a goner either way just because Kuzma is much cheeper for 4 years and Randle is due for an extension.

It's kinda a big if but I think that's a factor to consider too.


The problem is it takes two teams to trade. Other teams are gonna want the cheaper guy who can produce. If Kuz proves he can do in the NBA what he did in summer league then he will be the guy team asks for.

If Julius continues to improve there will still be less suitors because of his impending salary increase.

So if we're talking about enticing someone to take Deng, he's likely to go out with the cheaper rookie scale contract or future picks
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Megaton wrote:
I think a lot will also depend on Kuzma's production out of the gate.

Even if Randle shows improvement in the two main areas, if Kuzma consistently balls out like he did in Summer League, Randle is probably a goner either way just because Kuzma is much cheeper for 4 years and Randle is due for an extension.

It's kinda a big if but I think that's a factor to consider too.


The problem is it takes two teams to trade. Other teams are gonna want the cheaper guy who can produce. If Kuz proves he can do in the NBA what he did in summer league then he will be the guy team asks for.

If Julius continues to improve there will still be less suitors because of his impending salary increase.

So if we're talking about enticing someone to take Deng, he's likely to go out with the cheaper rookie scale contract or future picks


That's true, however I think even if we can't pair Randle with Deng in a trade in that hypothetical, we'll probably just trade him for a draft pick just because we want something instead of nothing for him. And I can't imagine every team not wanting to AT LEAST do that.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Megaton wrote:
I think a lot will also depend on Kuzma's production out of the gate.

Even if Randle shows improvement in the two main areas, if Kuzma consistently balls out like he did in Summer League, Randle is probably a goner either way just because Kuzma is much cheeper for 4 years and Randle is due for an extension.

It's kinda a big if but I think that's a factor to consider too.


The problem is it takes two teams to trade. Other teams are gonna want the cheaper guy who can produce. If Kuz proves he can do in the NBA what he did in summer league then he will be the guy team asks for.

If Julius continues to improve there will still be less suitors because of his impending salary increase.

So if we're talking about enticing someone to take Deng, he's likely to go out with the cheaper rookie scale contract or future picks


They can ask all they want if Kuz is ballin like summer they're not getting him. It will take picks. We will most likely move Clarkson and lose Randle in FA but it will take much skill to move Deng and i'm not sure we will.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
22 wrote:
Megaton wrote:
I think a lot will also depend on Kuzma's production out of the gate.

Even if Randle shows improvement in the two main areas, if Kuzma consistently balls out like he did in Summer League, Randle is probably a goner either way just because Kuzma is much cheeper for 4 years and Randle is due for an extension.

It's kinda a big if but I think that's a factor to consider too.


The problem is it takes two teams to trade. Other teams are gonna want the cheaper guy who can produce. If Kuz proves he can do in the NBA what he did in summer league then he will be the guy team asks for.

If Julius continues to improve there will still be less suitors because of his impending salary increase.

So if we're talking about enticing someone to take Deng, he's likely to go out with the cheaper rookie scale contract or future picks


They can ask all they want if Kuz is ballin like summer they're not getting him. It will take picks. We will most likely move Clarkson and lose Randle in FA but it will take much skill to move Deng and i'm not sure we will.


That's why I think ultimately Randle stays. I think he'll play well enough to warrant a pay increase, but not so much where teams are willing to take Deng or where it'll be worth it to move him.

People were worried about the same thing with JC and we were able to retain him. I think he likely stays as an improved player making more money.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
22 wrote:
Megaton wrote:
I think a lot will also depend on Kuzma's production out of the gate.

Even if Randle shows improvement in the two main areas, if Kuzma consistently balls out like he did in Summer League, Randle is probably a goner either way just because Kuzma is much cheeper for 4 years and Randle is due for an extension.

It's kinda a big if but I think that's a factor to consider too.


The problem is it takes two teams to trade. Other teams are gonna want the cheaper guy who can produce. If Kuz proves he can do in the NBA what he did in summer league then he will be the guy team asks for.

If Julius continues to improve there will still be less suitors because of his impending salary increase.

So if we're talking about enticing someone to take Deng, he's likely to go out with the cheaper rookie scale contract or future picks


They can ask all they want if Kuz is ballin like summer they're not getting him. It will take picks. We will most likely move Clarkson and lose Randle in FA but it will take much skill to move Deng and i'm not sure we will.


That's why I think ultimately Randle stays. I think he'll play well enough to warrant a pay increase, but not so much where teams are willing to take Deng or where it'll be worth it to move him.

People were worried about the same thing with JC and we were able to retain him. I think he likely stays as an improved player making more money.


We have his bird rights but he has a 12.4 mil caphold. If we stick to the 2 star plan money will be tight. If we pick up one star I could see it work but it would require us to be a 40+ win team this year for a single star to buy in.

That money might go to KCP or Lopez if either fit really well with the team. Also forward is our deepest position where we can afford to lose Randle in the right circumstances.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject:

The caphold pretty much means nothing. It will be worked out after the other negotiations. Boston didn't have enough space to sign Hayward but they worked it out afterward.
Same thing with Julius. If he plays well his year he stays IMO. They can move other pieces to sign two maxes if need be or stretch Deng
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
The caphold pretty much means nothing. It will be worked out after the other negotiations. Boston didn't have enough space to sign Hayward but they worked it out afterward.
Same thing with Julius. If he plays well his year he stays IMO. They can move other pieces to sign two maxes if need be or stretch Deng


The thing about Boston is they waited till they had Hayward commit before making subsequent moves. Which is why the Lakers should hold on moving anyone (unless they get a deal that right away moves a contract like Deng's or Clarkson's without needing to give up any of the core) until a max free agent commits to them.

Because ultimately they're gonna have room for one max this off-season without needing to worry about moving anyone, it's the '2nd max' that's got people all flustered. To me they should focus on landing one max player first and then if that's accomplished THEN worry about who or who not to move.

Till then it's pointless to even plan for it like it's an absolute. Like Boston did, they waited till they got a commitment and THEN made moves to free up the space.
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