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Mike@LG
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 Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: |
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^Randle earned his start. Just thinking about team balance on what has worked best for the team based on the preseason.
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Kava
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Not sure if there isn't a bench of 2nd stringers that JR and Kooz couldn't dominate. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. My idea of LNJ starting is mostly based on 10-15mpg with JR and Kuzma dominating power frontline minutes anyway. |
because no matter how many times we hear it or even claim it.....deep down inside, we have been indoctrinated to feel starting matters in sports. |
It is a high school thing. In the NBA you don’t win games in the first 8 minutes, who plays the last 8 is what matters. |
I think the indoctrination starts before high school....at the youngest ages, your not taught anything about roles and matchups...just the best kid are starters. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Randle is the type the stop and read, rather that continuously move and keep the ball moving like Nance.
This isn't just about assists.
The best lineup actually is Lopez and Kuzma in the frontline. We never got the chance to see that either. Kuzma has the passing chops, pick and slips, and the shooting. He doesn't stop to read, he continuously moves too. |
So we have given up on defense? And it is about assists, they put points on the board. Kuzma and Lopez might average 8 rebounds per game, you are confident in giving the opponent that many opportunities? |
Actually no. Kuzma on an island against wings/switches is shockingly much better than a lot of guys on the team. Who do you trust most to defend PnRs with lateral quickness?
And no, it isn't just about assists. Otherwise, we'd start Caruso and Lonzo next to each other. What kind of weird argument is that? You think passing is going to die with Kuzma on the floor? Especially next to Lopez?
The difference in ball movement w/Kuzma and LNJ vs Randle is pretty different. Kuzma is best at throwing/finding/reading crosscourt passes. LNJ actually understands what a short roll is. Randle is a 50/50 shot of bulldoze vs. finding the open man. |
I would prefer Randle’s lateral quickness. As well as his defense against other PFs, you don’t see him being thrown around like we see with Kuzma. An assist is 2-3 points, they are the basis of offense, they typically generate the easiest opportunity to score. Offensively playing Caruso and Ball together makes a lot of sense but not defensively. I realize that being young with no experience is a blank canvas, but pros win in this league.
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RCS926
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Randle is the type the stop and read, rather that continuously move and keep the ball moving like Nance.
This isn't just about assists.
The best lineup actually is Lopez and Kuzma in the frontline. We never got the chance to see that either. Kuzma has the passing chops, pick and slips, and the shooting. He doesn't stop to read, he continuously moves too. |
Offensively, you're right, but on defense and from a quickness standpoint, because of Lopez, they could have serious problems.
Luke is right. Nance is the best fit next to Lopez. No question there for me.
The question for me is why are the Lakers resigned to pstarting or even playing Lopez?
On my count, there are nearly ten PFs and centers on the roster. Lopez has a resume, for sure, but why are the Lakers handing him one of those starting roles with there's so many other options to consider on the roster?
Nance, Randle, Bryant, Zubac, and even Deng (don't laugh) have the potential to be more impactful than Lopez on both ends of the court. |
You act like Lopez didn't clearly show that he's our best center and most consistent big. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Randle is the type the stop and read, rather that continuously move and keep the ball moving like Nance.
This isn't just about assists.
The best lineup actually is Lopez and Kuzma in the frontline. We never got the chance to see that either. Kuzma has the passing chops, pick and slips, and the shooting. He doesn't stop to read, he continuously moves too. |
So we have given up on defense? And it is about assists, they put points on the board. Kuzma and Lopez might average 8 rebounds per game, you are confident in giving the opponent that many opportunities? |
Actually no. Kuzma on an island against wings/switches is shockingly much better than a lot of guys on the team. Who do you trust most to defend PnRs with lateral quickness?
And no, it isn't just about assists. Otherwise, we'd start Caruso and Lonzo next to each other. What kind of weird argument is that? You think passing is going to die with Kuzma on the floor? Especially next to Lopez?
The difference in ball movement w/Kuzma and LNJ vs Randle is pretty different. Kuzma is best at throwing/finding/reading crosscourt passes. LNJ actually understands what a short roll is. Randle is a 50/50 shot of bulldoze vs. finding the open man. |
I would prefer Randle’s lateral quickness. As well as his defense against other PFs, you don’t see him being thrown around like we see with Kuzma. An assist is 2-3 points, they are the basis of offense, they typically generate the easiest opportunity to score. Offensively playing Caruso and Ball together makes a lot of sense but not defensively. I realize that being young with no experience is a blank canvas, but pros win in this league. |
Wait, so the argument is based on Julius Randle getting assists, instead of team based assists?
I can understand a defensive matchup w Randle because he can muscle up. I trust Kuzma's feet more with perimeter types.
Actually, playing Caruso next to Ball, arguably, is the best defensive guard lineup on the team. The only counterargument is Hart. Either way, we're counting on rookies.
"Pros win in this league."
It may be a LONG season for you.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. My idea of LNJ starting is mostly based on 10-15mpg with JR and Kuzma dominating power frontline minutes anyway. |
because no matter how many times we hear it or even claim it.....deep down inside, we have been indoctrinated to feel starting matters in sports. |
It is a high school thing. In the NBA you don’t win games in the first 8 minutes, who plays the last 8 is what matters. |
I think the indoctrination starts before high school....at the youngest ages, your not taught anything about roles and matchups...just the best kid are starters. |
You are probably correct. I don’t subscribe to that theory, I start kids who practice hard even if they aren’t the best. But in crunch time, the best are playing.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Randle is the type the stop and read, rather that continuously move and keep the ball moving like Nance.
This isn't just about assists.
The best lineup actually is Lopez and Kuzma in the frontline. We never got the chance to see that either. Kuzma has the passing chops, pick and slips, and the shooting. He doesn't stop to read, he continuously moves too. |
So we have given up on defense? And it is about assists, they put points on the board. Kuzma and Lopez might average 8 rebounds per game, you are confident in giving the opponent that many opportunities? |
Actually no. Kuzma on an island against wings/switches is shockingly much better than a lot of guys on the team. Who do you trust most to defend PnRs with lateral quickness?
And no, it isn't just about assists. Otherwise, we'd start Caruso and Lonzo next to each other. What kind of weird argument is that? You think passing is going to die with Kuzma on the floor? Especially next to Lopez?
The difference in ball movement w/Kuzma and LNJ vs Randle is pretty different. Kuzma is best at throwing/finding/reading crosscourt passes. LNJ actually understands what a short roll is. Randle is a 50/50 shot of bulldoze vs. finding the open man. |
I would prefer Randle’s lateral quickness. As well as his defense against other PFs, you don’t see him being thrown around like we see with Kuzma. An assist is 2-3 points, they are the basis of offense, they typically generate the easiest opportunity to score. Offensively playing Caruso and Ball together makes a lot of sense but not defensively. I realize that being young with no experience is a blank canvas, but pros win in this league. |
Wait, so the argument is based on Julius Randle getting assists, instead of team based assists?
I can understand a defensive matchup w Randle because he can muscle up. I trust Kuzma's feet more with perimeter types.
Actually, playing Caruso next to Ball, arguably, is the best defensive guard lineup on the team. The only counterargument is Hart. Either way, we're counting on rookies.
"Pros win in this league."
It may be a LONG season for you. |
I am expecting 30 wins so I won’t be in angst. 
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Starting matters because it dictates minutes and when you need to rest a player to a large degree, unless you are putting in Randle after 3 minutes into the game. However, if you are doing that, not sure why you wouldn't just make him a starter.
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Roon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:05 am Post subject: |
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This is a tough decision.
I know a lot of us who are stoked for Ball subscribe to the idea that he is an influencer. The way he plays, influences others. Randle has had minimal time to play with both Ball and Lopez, and IMO opinion it would be premature to say you couldn't develop into a fit.
On the other hand, I completely 100% agree that Nance will be more effective with the starters, than Nance would as a back up.
I also want Kuzma and Randle to get minutes together, and definitely agree on the idea that they will wreak havoc on opposing team's backups. I believe it would also be travesty to not see a line-up that included Randle, Kuzma, and Ball together.
I also think it's a bit ironic that whenever Larry Nance was asked about starting he would say "it doesn't matter who starts, it who finishes," and it might turn out that he ends up starting, but not finishing.
Dang Luke whatchu gonna be doing opening night? |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Does anyone know rather Randle practiced today? |
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Lakesh0wtime
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does anyone know rather Randle practiced today? |
practiced but did not scrimmage.
bogut is a full go |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | My fear with Randle coming off the bench is that he may not even consider staying with the Lakers just because he'll want to and maybe deserve to start. Makes bringing him off the bench even more of a conundrum even though he seemed to play better off the bench in the preseason. |
Kuzma gon' be better we don't need him to start going forward |
Kuzma is also one of Luke's options to start at the 2 in place of KCP.
Part of me really hopes he tries that and Kuzma does well.
the other part of me just thinks Luke is gonna pick brewer or something. |
I was just talking about like next season and going forward.. |
Going forward Kuzma looks like a 3 tbh. |
in a world of Julius Randle love, sure.
In the modern NBA Kuzma isn't a 3 going forward, he'll get stronger and have more advantages at the 4.. league is getting smaller as well |
League's getting smaller. 4s will still muscle Kuzma around for the next 2-3 seasons.
I don't expect Kuzma to get much bigger. He's 220 pounds at age 22. I think at most you're hoping for is 230 at most in his prime.
Let's look at the average weight of 4s in the league
Kevin Love - 251 pounds
Karl Anthony Towns - 247 pounds
Anthony Davis - 254 pounds
LaMarcus Aldridge - 240 pounds
Kristaps Porzingis - 240 pounds (at 22)
Draymond Green - 230 pounds (coming down from a higher weight and retains his strength)
James Johnson - 245 pounds
Trevor Booker - 240 pounds
Amir Johnson - 240 pounds
Draymond Green, who is much stronger than Kuzma will likely ever be, is the only guy whose weight matches up to the heaviest you'd hope Kuzma would be, and Green was naturally bigger and came down to 230 getting himself in better shape. That and Kuzma would have to put on 10 pounds of muscle to even get to Green's weight.
So yeah, 220 pound Kuzma isn't gonna be able to handle the strength of those 4s. He's not an 18 year old kid at 220, he's 22 and at this point you don't expect him to make any grand leap and bounds on his frame. You don't expect him to just put on 10 pounds of muscle anytime soon. Maybe he could accomplish that after another 2-3 seasons. But frame wise and otherwise he looks like a 2. His size is closer to that of a Paul George or a Harrison Barnes. Harrison Barnes currently even weighs more than him and Paul George weighs the same as him.
Again, Kuzma looks like a 3 at the NBA level and that looks like the best place to utilize him. The league may be getting stronger, but we're not about to see 220 pound Power Forwards as the norm anytime soon and for good reason. Kuzma's a 3.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does anyone know rather Randle practiced today? |
practiced but did not scrimmage.
bogut is a full go |
Thanks 
At least we will get Bogut back. |
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watchME
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Mike you sir know basketball. “Randle stops thinks and reacts” TOTALLY agree. He stops the ball everytime he touches it and it messes up the offense. The offense is your only tool to putting the ball in the bazket when you don’t have great individual players.
I agree with you he should be playing Center next to a bunch of shootsrs and let him work from the elbow. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: |
League's getting smaller. 4s will still muscle Kuzma around for the next 2-3 seasons.
I don't expect Kuzma to get much bigger. He's 220 pounds at age 22. I think at most you're hoping for is 230 at most in his prime.
Let's look at the average weight of 4s in the league
Kevin Love - 251 pounds
Karl Anthony Towns - 247 pounds
Anthony Davis - 254 pounds
LaMarcus Aldridge - 240 pounds
Kristaps Porzingis - 240 pounds (at 22)
Draymond Green - 230 pounds (coming down from a higher weight and retains his strength)
James Johnson - 245 pounds
Trevor Booker - 240 pounds
Amir Johnson - 240 pounds
Draymond Green, who is much stronger than Kuzma will likely ever be, is the only guy whose weight matches up to the heaviest you'd hope Kuzma would be, and Green was naturally bigger and came down to 230 getting himself in better shape. That and Kuzma would have to put on 10 pounds of muscle to even get to Green's weight.
So yeah, 220 pound Kuzma isn't gonna be able to handle the strength of those 4s. He's not an 18 year old kid at 220, he's 22 and at this point you don't expect him to make any grand leap and bounds on his frame. You don't expect him to just put on 10 pounds of muscle anytime soon. Maybe he could accomplish that after another 2-3 seasons. But frame wise and otherwise he looks like a 2. His size is closer to that of a Paul George or a Harrison Barnes. Harrison Barnes currently even weighs more than him and Paul George weighs the same as him.
Again, Kuzma looks like a 3 at the NBA level and that looks like the best place to utilize him. The league may be getting stronger, but we're not about to see 220 pound Power Forwards as the norm anytime soon and for good reason. Kuzma's a 3. |
those in no objective way are "average" sized NBA 4's Most of the guys you listed play a substantial amount of their time as 5's. Kuzma needs to get a little stronger to play a traditional 4 in the NBA, but his body and size is a prototypical NBA 4. His natural long term position is @ the 4 in my opinion. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| He's definitely salty about not starting. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Randle could be gone.
He's not going to start.
Per Trudell's twitter, when asked if he cared if he started, he responded "not my decision" and was NOT happy about it. |
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2019
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius is best suited as a 6th man role... no other bench big can do the things he can. As long as he plays the right way, I see no reason why he is not closing games. |
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Inspector Gadget
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dao
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
League's getting smaller. 4s will still muscle Kuzma around for the next 2-3 seasons.
I don't expect Kuzma to get much bigger. He's 220 pounds at age 22. I think at most you're hoping for is 230 at most in his prime.
Let's look at the average weight of 4s in the league
Kevin Love - 251 pounds
Karl Anthony Towns - 247 pounds
Anthony Davis - 254 pounds
LaMarcus Aldridge - 240 pounds
Kristaps Porzingis - 240 pounds (at 22)
Draymond Green - 230 pounds (coming down from a higher weight and retains his strength)
James Johnson - 245 pounds
Trevor Booker - 240 pounds
Amir Johnson - 240 pounds
Draymond Green, who is much stronger than Kuzma will likely ever be, is the only guy whose weight matches up to the heaviest you'd hope Kuzma would be, and Green was naturally bigger and came down to 230 getting himself in better shape. That and Kuzma would have to put on 10 pounds of muscle to even get to Green's weight.
So yeah, 220 pound Kuzma isn't gonna be able to handle the strength of those 4s. He's not an 18 year old kid at 220, he's 22 and at this point you don't expect him to make any grand leap and bounds on his frame. You don't expect him to just put on 10 pounds of muscle anytime soon. Maybe he could accomplish that after another 2-3 seasons. But frame wise and otherwise he looks like a 2. His size is closer to that of a Paul George or a Harrison Barnes. Harrison Barnes currently even weighs more than him and Paul George weighs the same as him.
Again, Kuzma looks like a 3 at the NBA level and that looks like the best place to utilize him. The league may be getting stronger, but we're not about to see 220 pound Power Forwards as the norm anytime soon and for good reason. Kuzma's a 3. |
those in no objective way are "average" sized NBA 4's Most of the guys you listed play a substantial amount of their time as 5's. Kuzma needs to get a little stronger to play a traditional 4 in the NBA, but his body and size is a prototypical NBA 4. His natural long term position is @ the 4 in my opinion. |
yep. If he plays as well in the regular season as he did in preseason, he will take the starting 4 spot from Nance sooner rather than later. I actually think starting Nance is a preliminary move to open the spot up for Kuzma later in the season. Benching Randle for Kuzma in the middle of the season would be messier than benching him for Nance now.
As much as we've discussed who would fit best next to Lopez, the more important question going forward will be who fits best with Lonzo. Kuzma at the 4 is best case scenario for Lonzo. It spreads the floor and gives him a great target in transition.
Lonzo
KCP
Ingram
Kuzma
Lopez
If Lonzo and Ingram can knock down open threes, that's 5 three point threats. Kuzma's spacing in the half court would hive Lopez more room to operate as well. This may be the starting lineup sooner than we think if Kuzma continues to impress. |
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dao
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | He's definitely salty about not starting. |
in a contract year, where he's got in great shape and had a strong preseason? He should be. |
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RCS926
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | He's definitely salty about not starting. |
I don't blame him either considering how hard he worked over the summer. Couple that with the fact that he made a far greater impact on both ends of the floor than Jr. |
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tnell
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | He's definitely salty about not starting. |
I don't blame him at all. |
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RCS926
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | Julius is best suited as a 6th man role... no other bench big can do the things he can. As long as he plays the right way, I see no reason why he is not closing games. |
Closing out games might have to be JR's consolation prize. |
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