GOODBYE JULIUS RANDLE (Lakers Renounce Randle at his request, Who Then Signs W/ NOR for 2 years (1+1), $18m)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:20 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
If we sign PG/Lebron, how much we pay Randle is irrelevant given we'll be over the cap regardless. The $4m difference between a $16m deal and a $20m deal where we sign PG/Lebron is worth keeping him because that difference has no effect on us. Now, if we are trying to punt cap space into 2019 where we don't sign two max guys this summer, that's where paying Randle that extra money becomes an issue. Only in the latter circumstance should anyone really care about how much we pay him.


Where it could matter is if we want to trade him later. Over paying is never a good thing. At least sign him at a rate where we can trade him if needed.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
If we sign PG/Lebron, how much we pay Randle is irrelevant given we'll be over the cap regardless. The $4m difference between a $16m deal and a $20m deal where we sign PG/Lebron is worth keeping him because that difference has no effect on us. Now, if we are trying to punt cap space into 2019 where we don't sign two max guys this summer, that's where paying Randle that extra money becomes an issue. Only in the latter circumstance should anyone really care about how much we pay him.


good point

but if Dallas makes him that offer (20 mil per) before we know about PG/LBJ, I probably just let him go there tbh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject:

You have to match Randle because if nothing else he becomes a trade asset.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
If we sign PG/Lebron, how much we pay Randle is irrelevant given we'll be over the cap regardless. The $4m difference between a $16m deal and a $20m deal where we sign PG/Lebron is worth keeping him because that difference has no effect on us. Now, if we are trying to punt cap space into 2019 where we don't sign two max guys this summer, that's where paying Randle that extra money becomes an issue. Only in the latter circumstance should anyone really care about how much we pay him.


good point

but if Dallas makes him that offer (20 mil per) before we know about PG/LBJ, I probably just let him go there tbh


I can only hope there is no delay in decisions. Honestly I will be disgusted if the James/George decisions are not known the day free agency opens.

Both should both currently be in discussions with their families, agents, potential teammates and business partners to prioritize their needs and focus. Then they can have select mtgs with potential team to finalize the decisions in a couple days. I would speculate they already have preference and a short list of one or two teams.

Any delays or uncertainty after signing day is simply unneeded drama and selfishness.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I don't think Jules is getting anywhere near the max.

When the dust is settled, in this weak cap space environment, I see something in the 15-18m range for him.


I hope you are correct. That contract keeps him in a Laker uniform. And at a bargain price too.

Which should be one of the priorities in free agency IMO. It supports a long term vision for the team.


You are already seeing teams looking to absorb bad deals to get a pick (Denver #14, Memphis #4). That would take some of the Deng dump offs (bad) but also Jules suitors too.


Seeing that. Going to be interesting to see if any or how many of these type of moves actually happen. Certainly adds to the intrigue of the draft and looming free agency.

There certainly has been a trend of posters speculating the market is going to limited and players like Randle will pay the price. Would love for the Lakers to get a "deal" this offseason. Signing Randle long term for that $15-18M would be one IMO. Expecting him to continue to improve if given the room to grow.

Deng benefited (and the Lakers paid ) in an increased cap player's market. Would be nice for the Lakers to get a bit of karmic payback with some below market signings.

On the Deng dump off topic. Not sure the Lakers will be so willing to give up the assets to move him if they lose Randle. If they go down the vet win now path, Deng fits again in a backup PF role.


$15-18 is NOT a "deal".

$12-14M would be a deal

$15M per would be "fine"

$16M per would be a contract he could grow into

$17M+ is an overpay imo.


Respect that you have a strong opinion. But it is an opinion.

Another opinion is that he could just as easily get a contract over that $18m per year line in the sand if you compare to similar young players contracts or consider his actual max.

I do think the RFA status and the limited cap available league wide this season will be in the Lakers advantage. But I also will not be shocked if one team sees the potential and is willing to put their money on the table. Especially if they see an opportunity if the Lakers are overly distracted by marquee players

I agree. Everyone knows the Lakers’ plans, everyone. They also know exactly what it’d take to make it hard for the Lakers to retain Mr. Randle. Dallas knows the exact number to make the Lakers’ decision to retain Randle quite, quite difficult to make.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
If we sign PG/Lebron, how much we pay Randle is irrelevant given we'll be over the cap regardless. The $4m difference between a $16m deal and a $20m deal where we sign PG/Lebron is worth keeping him because that difference has no effect on us. Now, if we are trying to punt cap space into 2019 where we don't sign two max guys this summer, that's where paying Randle that extra money becomes an issue. Only in the latter circumstance should anyone really care about how much we pay him.

You’re not mentioning timing though. If Dallas signs Randle to a 20 mill deal on the 6th, the Lakers have two days to match. Once they match, that 20 mill is on the books. If by chance James and George haven’t been signed first, then they MUST take less to come here. Period.

And this is all assuming that Deng can be dumped.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
If we sign PG/Lebron, how much we pay Randle is irrelevant given we'll be over the cap regardless. The $4m difference between a $16m deal and a $20m deal where we sign PG/Lebron is worth keeping him because that difference has no effect on us. Now, if we are trying to punt cap space into 2019 where we don't sign two max guys this summer, that's where paying Randle that extra money becomes an issue. Only in the latter circumstance should anyone really care about how much we pay him.


good point

but if Dallas makes him that offer (20 mil per) before we know about PG/LBJ, I probably just let him go there tbh


I can only hope there is no delay in decisions. Honestly I will be disgusted if the James/George decisions are not known the day free agency opens.

Both should both currently be in discussions with their families, agents, potential teammates and business partners to prioritize their needs and focus. Then they can have select mtgs with potential team to finalize the decisions in a couple days. I would speculate they already have preference and a short list of one or two teams.

Any delays or uncertainty after signing day is simply unneeded drama and selfishness.

I agree wholeheartedly. They’ll have exactly seven days to make a decision before it could adversely affect the Lakers’ plans.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Dallas may take on Faried or Parson's and gain another lotto pick. I can see them doing that over offering Jules 20m on day 1 (which is about a week after the moratorium).

I think Doncic drops to four and when that happens Memphis will have much better offers than just a simple salary dump.

In particular, if Doncic does drop to four, I coulda definitely see Cleveland wanting him to replace James and offering. Memphis the sweetest deal: Cleveland’s #8 and Kevin Love for Parsons, Memphis’ #4, and a future first.

That deal would take Dallas out of the the running ... again, only if Doncic drops (which I foresee happening).
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Dallas may take on Faried or Parson's and gain another lotto pick. I can see them doing that over offering Jules 20m on day 1 (which is about a week after the moratorium).

I think Doncic drops to four and when that happens Memphis will have much better offers than just a simple salary dump.

In particular, if Doncic does drop to four, I coulda definitely see Cleveland wanting him to replace James and offering. Memphis the sweetest deal: Cleveland’s #8 and Kevin Love for Parsons, Memphis’ #4, and a future first.

That deal would take Dallas out of the the running ... again, only if Doncic drops (which I foresee happening).


man that would be a crazy scenario but one that I would not mind seeing tbh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
You have to match Randle because if nothing else he becomes a trade asset.

He only becomes a trade asset if his contributions on the court are worth more than his salary. In one of the threads here, there is talk about Memphis being willing to part with the #4 choice in the draft just to get rid of Chandler Parsons. The Lakers will have to send draft choices off to get rid of Deng. If Randle's contributions don't match his salary, he doesn't become a trade asset (unless we are willing to explore "negative assets"). Regardless, it doesn't make sense to match an offer that gives Randle too much.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject:

with Kawhi becoming available I hope we still have Ju when the dust settles. Would be amazing if he pulled a Kawhi and accepted the QO for next season so we could stack the deck then we took care of him the year after that
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject:

the question now is : whether Julius takes the QO from the lakers
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject:

In my opinion. if Julius was on any other team and averaged what he averaged when he got his starting spot back (20/10/4) on a 55%+ from the field at 23 years old and showing the capability of guarding all 5 positions...

Near everyone here that watched him on that other team would feel that he is out of range for us, and that the other team will match any offer he get and he'd be viewed as untouchable.

The primary reason people want to undercut his value or how much he should be getting is because they're scared having a guy playing at a max level on OUR OWN roster that we can go over the cap to re-sign, is a threat to us signing a max player from somewhere else and it eating into our "two max" plan because in their own mind they refuse to view any of our youngsters as one of those max players.


People going 20/10/4 isn't worth a rookie max for a just turned 23 year old, or isn't playing at an all-star level is kind of silly to me. Anything you realistically would get under 19-20M would be a bargain.

You look at the other Western Conference All-Star Forwards. I'm just gonna put them

Anthony Davis 27/11/2
LaMarcus Aldridge 22/8/2
Draymond Green 11/7/8


When it comes to next season, If Julius gets the starting minutes and opportunities like he got post ASB and continues on his upward swing like he has been doing the past few seasons. There's no reason why he couldn't place in front of Aldridge or Green come next season statistically. Which would put him behind Davis solely at the all-star level at the forward position.

We legitimately could vote Julius into the All-Star game next year if he continues to show what he was capable of, and that's even without his jumper being consistent as of yet, which he's constantly working on.


So in my opinion, of our young core, Julius has the closest potential to actually becoming an all-star right now. Not within the next 2 or so seasons (such as is the case with Ingram) but next season.

So just my two cents and opinion, but just marinate on that for a moment.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject:

^Everything you said here is legit my friend. I can’t disagree with much of anything.

However, I’m curious, what do you suggest is the alternative?

If you were in charge, would you pass on James? If you would, ponder for a second how that would look to the fan base. Your job would be in jeopardy, for sure.

If you wouldn’t pass on James, how do you integrate Randle to get him his 20/10 numbers and still let James, George, and maybe Leonard eat?

Did you have a problem when Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell we’re shipped out for Glen Rice, or the trade of Tyronn Lue for Nick Van Exel? To me, it’s a similar situation. These were lopsided trades for the the Lakers from a talent perspective, but necessary for proper chemistry from a roster construction perspective. Rice and Lue were both average on the Lakers. Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, and Elden Campbell had good to great years after leaving, but the Lakersgot better, and more importantly, they became a real team, balanced and with synergy.

Randle is a baller, a 20/10 monster; I’ll be the first to concede that he is a tremendous talent. No doubt about it. But chemistry is a real thing. I’m not too sure that people understand this. Jerry West understood it. That’s why he sacrificed Van Exel and Jones, two guys he drafted, so that the team could become more balanced and all teammates could be clear and happy in their roles. It’s imoortant.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject:

Randle is highly skilled, his one overt flaw is outside shooting (really anything outside of about 3-5 feet from the hoop, I saw a few weeks back Randle shoots 33% outside of 3 feet from the basket).

I know, it doesn't work this way, but if we had to pay him $20 million, I'd want it structured based on meeting certain goals:

$15 million base salary
$1 million bonus 50 games played
$2 million 75% or better ft shooting, 100 attempts minimum (I think he is at 72% now)
$2 million 45% or better FG shooting outside the paint. 100 attempts minimum
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject:

Yes that RFA marching window of 2 days is a monster curveball
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
^Everything you said here is legit my friend. I can’t disagree with much of anything.

However, I’m curious, what do you suggest is the alternative?

If you were in charge, would you pass on James? If you would, ponder for a second how that would look to the fan base. Your job would be in jeopardy, for sure.

If you wouldn’t pass on James, how do you integrate Randle to get him his 20/10 numbers and still let James, George, and maybe Leonard eat?

Did you have a problem when Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell we’re shipped out for Glen Rice, or the trade of Tyronn Lue for Nick Van Exel? To me, it’s a similar situation. These were lopsided trades for the the Lakers from a talent perspective, but necessary for proper chemistry from a roster construction perspective. Rice and Lue were both average on the Lakers. Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, and Elden Campbell had good to great years after leaving, but the Lakersgot better, and more importantly, they became a real team, balanced and with synergy.

Randle is a baller, a 20/10 monster; I’ll be the first to concede that he is a tremendous talent. No doubt about it. But chemistry is a real thing. I’m not too sure that people understand this. Jerry West understood it. That’s why he sacrificed Van Exel and Jones, two guys he drafted, so that the team could become more balanced and all teammates could be clear and happy in their roles. It’s imoortant.


With any team stacked like that the players all sacrifice points and focus on other things like defense, assists and rebounding. As long as you're winning games everybody is happy. I have no doubt LeBron would be happy to let Julius or anyone on the roster ball out if it led to winning in all.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject:

YSong wrote:
Yes that RFA marching window of 2 days is a monster curveball


Usually the big dominoes fall first, but if Randle really wants to be a part of the plan he no doubt can be.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject:

scooterp10 wrote:
YSong wrote:
Yes that RFA marching window of 2 days is a monster curveball


Usually the big dominoes fall first, but if Randle really wants to be a part of the plan he no doubt can be.


JR wants to get paid he will accept the first big offer he gets but lucky for us there isnt a lot of free money this year and like you said the ball doesnt get rolling until LBJ decides.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
scooterp10 wrote:
YSong wrote:
Yes that RFA marching window of 2 days is a monster curveball


Usually the big dominoes fall first, but if Randle really wants to be a part of the plan he no doubt can be.


JR wants to get paid he will accept the first big offer he gets but lucky for us there isnt a lot of free money this year and like you said the ball doesnt get rolling until LBJ decides.


BUT a team like the Mavs aren’t in the LBJ sweepstakes so why would they wait for him?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject:

YSong wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
scooterp10 wrote:
YSong wrote:
Yes that RFA marching window of 2 days is a monster curveball


Usually the big dominoes fall first, but if Randle really wants to be a part of the plan he no doubt can be.


JR wants to get paid he will accept the first big offer he gets but lucky for us there isnt a lot of free money this year and like you said the ball doesnt get rolling until LBJ decides.


BUT a team like the Mavs aren’t in the LBJ sweepstakes so why would they wait for him?



I'm not just talking about LeBron, but I said usually. Like I said if Randle wants to stay he will. If he wants to go to another team like Dallas he probably will jump ASAP. In any event this will probably be put together quickly


I would not be surprised if they had some trade options lined up for draft night to offload deng.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I don't think Jules is getting anywhere near the max.

When the dust is settled, in this weak cap space environment, I see something in the 15-18m range for him.


I hope you are correct. That contract keeps him in a Laker uniform. And at a bargain price too.

Which should be one of the priorities in free agency IMO. It supports a long term vision for the team.


You are already seeing teams looking to absorb bad deals to get a pick (Denver #14, Memphis #4). That would take some of the Deng dump offs (bad) but also Jules suitors too.


Seeing that. Going to be interesting to see if any or how many of these type of moves actually happen. Certainly adds to the intrigue of the draft and looming free agency.

There certainly has been a trend of posters speculating the market is going to limited and players like Randle will pay the price. Would love for the Lakers to get a "deal" this offseason. Signing Randle long term for that $15-18M would be one IMO. Expecting him to continue to improve if given the room to grow.

Deng benefited (and the Lakers paid ) in an increased cap player's market. Would be nice for the Lakers to get a bit of karmic payback with some below market signings.

On the Deng dump off topic. Not sure the Lakers will be so willing to give up the assets to move him if they lose Randle. If they go down the vet win now path, Deng fits again in a backup PF role.


$15-18 is NOT a "deal".

$12-14M would be a deal

$15M per would be "fine"

$16M per would be a contract he could grow into

$17M+ is an overpay imo.


Respect that you have a strong opinion. But it is an opinion.

Another opinion is that he could just as easily get a contract over that $18m per year line in the sand if you compare to similar young players contracts or consider his actual max.

I do think the RFA status and the limited cap available league wide this season will be in the Lakers advantage. But I also will not be shocked if one team sees the potential and is willing to put their money on the table. Especially if they see an opportunity if the Lakers are overly distracted by marquee players


Those values are what I think he is worth today in this market. I didn't really draw a line in the sand. An overpay might be worth it. It depends on a lot of variables.

I think today he can be a 4th best player on a championship contender. If he develops a consistent jumper he can be that 3rd guy with 2 superstars. I like Randle better next to Lebron/Kawhi, because they are 2 MVP caliber players. But Randle as a 3rd guy with Lebron/PG will not get it done.

If we trade away some of our young core with Deng's contract, then that would make it more essential to match any offer for Randle regardless of who we sign in free agency. So in that scenario, sure I could see us overpaying to keep him and I would agree with it.

So, I don't have a hard line drawn in the sand. I went from not wanting to re-sign him at all last year, to now feeling like he might one day be worth his next contract. I understand that with younger players, sometimes you have to pay them above their present value, and hope they have the work ethic to rise to their contract. If there's one thing we can all agree on with Randle, it's that the man puts in the work.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
JR wants to get paid he will accept the first big offer he gets but lucky for us there isnt a lot of free money this year and like you said the ball doesnt get rolling until LBJ decides.


Not sure I follow that logic. If Dallas offers him an offer which the Lakers let his agent know they will match, and he can be on a contending team, I'm not sure why he doesn't wait. The Lakers can offer him more money than anyone else. If Dallas offered $18 million, and the Lakers told him, wait until we're done in free agency and we'll pay you slightly more than that to play on a contender. Why would he sign the offer sheet? He can get offers from teams, he doesn't have to sign them, he can instead use them as leverage. So long as he feels the Lakers are negotiating in good faith.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:09 pm    Post subject:

Can Dallas pull the offer if JR is waiting too long to decide?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject:

AllorNothing wrote:
Can Dallas pull the offer if JR is waiting too long to decide?


most teams don't want to do the Restricted offer because it ties up that cap space while the other team decides to match.

Im sure they can pull an offer, but if Julius signs the offer sheet they can not.
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