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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
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 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Sometimes people and fanbases(all not just ours) always value the least prepared over the most prepared and proven. Dunno what it is about human nature, but they like watching people become who they project them to be. However on the flip side if someone else projects themselves as more than that, they ignore it or downplay it, because they didn't see it coming.
Imagine Ingram and Randle switched places, and Ingram was the guy about to become an RFA and put up 20/10/4 last year on 55% from the field and guarding all 5 positions.
You would scarcely find any Ingram fan here that would run around acting like he's only worth 15M a year. And if they would, they'd be lying.
Because the majority projected Ingram to be greater than he was this season, and projected Randle to be less than he was this season.
Randle's the best player/defender/scorer/leader in our young core, yet he's the one the fans seem to like to value the least.
Just food for thought.
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Joe Pesci
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Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: |
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In light of the Leonard situation and the realization that Nerlens Noel, the best possible Randle replacement, will probably receive and take offers higher than what the Lakers can give, I’d resign Randle to whatever number it would take.
I still do not like Randle’s offensive fit, but if Noel is off the market for the room exception, which I think he will be, I’d resign Randle, to the max if need be, for his defensive abilities alone.
I’m hoping that if he is paid max money that his unhappiness on the offensive end will be sufficiently placated. As it stands, Randle will have to wait three or four years before he can do his 20/10 thing.
I still stand by my original sentiment that he has a much higher chance of averaging under ten points next year than he does averaging the 16 points he did last year. It is what it is.
I’m down to pay Randle because of his defense ... and because I think Noel will attract more high profile suitors with more money like Golden State. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grind wrote: | | I'd have to think that Julius having the same agent as PG, whom we will undoubtedly pursue, will serve as a plus. Having those communication channels overlapping will make things much easier to coordinate. |
How we treat Randle could influence our chances to sign George. Doubtful that the agent is impressed with things so far.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | If we sign PG/Lebron, how much we pay Randle is irrelevant given we'll be over the cap regardless. The $4m difference between a $16m deal and a $20m deal where we sign PG/Lebron is worth keeping him because that difference has no effect on us. Now, if we are trying to punt cap space into 2019 where we don't sign two max guys this summer, that's where paying Randle that extra money becomes an issue. Only in the latter circumstance should anyone really care about how much we pay him. |
Where it could matter is if we want to trade him later. Over paying is never a good thing. At least sign him at a rate where we can trade him if needed. |
If that is market value then you aren’t overpaying
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | the question now is : whether Julius takes the QO from the lakers |
That one should be easy to answer
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | JR wants to get paid he will accept the first big offer he gets but lucky for us there isnt a lot of free money this year and like you said the ball doesnt get rolling until LBJ decides. |
Not sure I follow that logic. If Dallas offers him an offer which the Lakers let his agent know they will match, and he can be on a contending team, I'm not sure why he doesn't wait. The Lakers can offer him more money than anyone else. If Dallas offered $18 million, and the Lakers told him, wait until we're done in free agency and we'll pay you slightly more than that to play on a contender. Why would he sign the offer sheet? He can get offers from teams, he doesn't have to sign them, he can instead use them as leverage. So long as he feels the Lakers are negotiating in good faith. |
I don’t think that the Lakers would need to offer more.
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Sometimes people and fanbases(all not just ours) always value the least prepared over the most prepared and proven. Dunno what it is about human nature, but they like watching people become who they project them to be. However on the flip side if someone else projects themselves as more than that, they ignore it or downplay it, because they didn't see it coming.
Imagine Ingram and Randle switched places, and Ingram was the guy about to become an RFA and put up 20/10/4 last year on 55% from the field and guarding all 5 positions.
You would scarcely find any Ingram fan here that would run around acting like he's only worth 15M a year. And if they would, they'd be lying.
Because the majority projected Ingram to be greater than he was this season, and projected Randle to be less than he was this season.
Randle's the best player/defender/scorer/leader in our young core, yet he's the one the fans seem to like to value the least.
Just food for thought. |
Arguably, this is true: Randle is the best of our young core. What is, however, a realistic ceiling for Randle? Hollinger's PER has Randle as the 41st best player in the league and the eighth best PF (link). ESPN's RPM, however, has Randle as the 122nd best player and the 28th best PF (link). The "eye test" puts him as an improving young player who still has some major holes in his game (he shot 22.2% from the 3 pt line and has an unreliable midrange game)--and is the reason that his rankings vary widely. A Randle who shoots 36% from the 3 pt line deserves $20+ million per year. A Randle who shoots 22.2% from the 3 pt line and who also has a $20 million per year contract is our next "Deng" in that we will soon be asking what assets do we need to package with him to send his contract somewhere else--and the Lakers will have to restart the rebuilding process. It is a gamble--and to me, it is not completely clear which bet has the highest odds.
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manlisten
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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When you actually look at that RPM list I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Randle belongs as far down as 28. Channing Frye is directly above him for example.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | When you actually look at that RPM list I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Randle belongs as far down as 28. Channing Frye is directly above him for example. |
The problem is that Channing Frye does **some** things better than Randle: 3 pt shooting, FT shooting and fewer turnovers (Randle has 4.8 per 48 minutes while Frye has 1.5 per 48 minutes). RPM also thinks that Frye is better defensively. Randle is definitely a better rebounder. Randle is improving--but did his 2017-18 year make him a $20 million dollar player? $18 million? $16 million? $14 million?
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| JR will be a Laker next season. |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16704
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | JR will be a Laker next season. |
I really hope so |
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strong9
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Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 3265
Location: so many places
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | The Grind wrote: | | I'd have to think that Julius having the same agent as PG, whom we will undoubtedly pursue, will serve as a plus. Having those communication channels overlapping will make things much easier to coordinate. |
How we treat Randle could influence our chances to sign George. Doubtful that the agent is impressed with things so far. |
Doubtful he takes it personally and views this as typical business. |
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strong9
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Location: so many places
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | the question now is : whether Julius takes the QO from the lakers |
That one should be easy to answer |
Unless it isn't. |
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Travis Bickle
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Joined: 31 Jul 2001
Posts: 2895
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | When you actually look at that RPM list I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Randle belongs as far down as 28. Channing Frye is directly above him for example. |
The problem is that Channing Frye does **some** things better than Randle: 3 pt shooting, FT shooting and fewer turnovers (Randle has 4.8 per 48 minutes while Frye has 1.5 per 48 minutes). RPM also thinks that Frye is better defensively. Randle is definitely a better rebounder. Randle is improving--but did his 2017-18 year make him a $20 million dollar player? $18 million? $16 million? $14 million? |
This is what worries me about Randle. He has put together the most productive season out of any of the recent picks but is he worth a 70M+ contract? The best thing about Randle is he brings toughest that the Lakers lack but is that worth all that money? |
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | JR wants to get paid he will accept the first big offer he gets but lucky for us there isnt a lot of free money this year and like you said the ball doesnt get rolling until LBJ decides. |
Not sure I follow that logic. If Dallas offers him an offer which the Lakers let his agent know they will match, and he can be on a contending team, I'm not sure why he doesn't wait. The Lakers can offer him more money than anyone else. If Dallas offered $18 million, and the Lakers told him, wait until we're done in free agency and we'll pay you slightly more than that to play on a contender. Why would he sign the offer sheet? He can get offers from teams, he doesn't have to sign them, he can instead use them as leverage. So long as he feels the Lakers are negotiating in good faith. |
Great post! |
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kawhileonard
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think so as well.
With Randle getting married and the birth of his child, I would imagine him take the best deal for him, rather than give the lakers any form of discount.
Also, if we do lose JR, I really wonder if no team wanted him + Deng in the past trade deadline. |
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unleasHell
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
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I'm hoping the Mavs target Capela for their offer, he's in Texas and losing him would weaken the Rockets.
On the other hand, if Randle does leave for the Mav's and the Lakers don't get BOTH PG & LeBron, they should make an offer to Capela and start Kuz at PF!
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Dallas will be driven by the draft.
Very hard to prognosticate the draft, but as I see it:
Phoenix - Ayton
Sacramento - Porter Jr. (I know, I know, crazy, but I see them going that way)
Atlanta - Bamba
Cleveland (Memphis trades pick and Parsons to Cleveland for #8 and Love) - Doncic
Dallas - Jackson Jr.
Orlando - Young
Chicago - Bagley
Memphis (after Love/pick swap with Cleveland) - Mikal Bridges
In several varying draft scenarios I have Dallas aggressively going after Randle in each one.
The only thing that’ll keep them from Randle, IMO, is if they go after Cousins.
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| If JR enjoys being a Laker (nobody knows), I am sure he will talk to and work with the FO. They will tell him to find out what his best offer is without signing it. Hopefully they can come to an agreement without JR signing an offer sheet. This is really a big advantage for us if that is the direction they go. |
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DD20045
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | If JR enjoys being a Laker (nobody knows), I am sure he will talk to and work with the FO. They will tell him to find out what his best offer is without signing it. Hopefully they can come to an agreement without JR signing an offer sheet. This is really a big advantage for us if that is the direction they go. |
I enjoy working for my company. However, if someone wanted to pay me 50-100% more, I am leaving. It is that simple. The Lakers are his employer and nothing else.
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| DD20045 wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | If JR enjoys being a Laker (nobody knows), I am sure he will talk to and work with the FO. They will tell him to find out what his best offer is without signing it. Hopefully they can come to an agreement without JR signing an offer sheet. This is really a big advantage for us if that is the direction they go. |
I enjoy working for my company. However, if someone wanted to pay me 50-100% more, I am leaving. It is that simple. The Lakers are his employer and nothing else. |
Your are saying exactly what I stated. If another company wants to pay you more, and your company is agreeable to match that pay, do you leave? If you enjoy working for your company I would think you stay. |
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22
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| At this point I’m not greedy. As long as we find a way to keep Julius I’ll be happy with whatever else happens lol |
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Dick$tallion
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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I hate Randle’s game. I think he put up (bleep) numbers on a bad team. It’s nothing personal against him, I think he gives a lot of effort and works hard but he simply doesn’t have the talent or natural atheletic ability to warrant a contract that exceeds 10 mil per season.
- He cannot shoot outside of 5 feet away from the rim
- He’s undersized for the type of game he wants to play.
- Hates to pass
- Very average defender
- plays under the rim. Severely limited athletically at the age of 23 (could be wrong on his age)
I am of the opinion that Randle would not see the court on a playoff team where there are star level players. He adds no value to a Lebron led lineup. Doesn’t shoot pass or protect the Rim.
Sure He can develop a shot and learn to play better team ball. But I’m not paying top dollar for a player with those deficiencies. Especially one that doesn’t have any athletic upside |
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22
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Dick$tallion wrote: | I hate Randle’s game. I think he put up (bleep) numbers on a bad team. It’s nothing personal against him, I think he gives a lot of effort and works hard but he simply doesn’t have the talent or natural atheletic ability to warrant a contract that exceeds 10 mil per season.
- He cannot shoot outside of 5 feet away from the rim
- He’s undersized for the type of game he wants to play.
- Hates to pass
- Very average defender
- plays under the rim. Severely limited athletically at the age of 23 (could be wrong on his age)
I am of the opinion that Randle would not see the court on a playoff team where there are star level players. He adds no value to a Lebron led lineup. Doesn’t shoot pass or protect the Rim.
Sure He can develop a shot and learn to play better team ball. But I’m not paying top dollar for a player with those deficiencies. Especially one that doesn’t have any athletic upside |
You’re either
A) a troll
B) Blind
C) someone who’s pet was killed by Julius
Lol |
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Dick$tallion
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Sir.
Which of my assertions about Randle are incorrect?
Thank you |
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