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venturalakersfan
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 Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | The effort wasn't there defensively and he still can't shoot. The Lakers are going to have a tough decision to make with his contract. |
The decision won't be tough at all, Mitch won't lose sleep over it.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | dao wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | To be honest idk how much I trust the stats for a lineup that's played 10-20 minutes this whole season (idk how many minutes I trust)
In lineups with a minimum of 20 minutes played this year Julius is in 3 of the worst defensive ones - and the 3 worst net rating lineups. |
Comparing the healthy first unit with the bench mob, the bench play significantly better defense. In my opinion, most of that is the difference between Nance and Randle. Nance is a far superior team defender. |
Actually the difference is that the bench is playing against bench players while the starters are playing against starters. Last night when Nance was faced against starters (Chandler) he got it handed to him. |
Did he? 1 for 3 and 10 rebounds (one below his average). Your objectivity continues to amaze. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | dao wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | To be honest idk how much I trust the stats for a lineup that's played 10-20 minutes this whole season (idk how many minutes I trust)
In lineups with a minimum of 20 minutes played this year Julius is in 3 of the worst defensive ones - and the 3 worst net rating lineups. |
Comparing the healthy first unit with the bench mob, the bench play significantly better defense. In my opinion, most of that is the difference between Nance and Randle. Nance is a far superior team defender. |
Actually the difference is that the bench is playing against bench players while the starters are playing against starters. Last night when Nance was faced against starters (Chandler) he got it handed to him. |
Did he? 1 for 3 and 10 rebounds (his average). Your objectivity continues to amaze. |
That doesn't even make sense. I have no idea what that means. Are you of the opinion that Chandler did that in the entire game against Nance? Because you would be wrong.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | dao wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | To be honest idk how much I trust the stats for a lineup that's played 10-20 minutes this whole season (idk how many minutes I trust)
In lineups with a minimum of 20 minutes played this year Julius is in 3 of the worst defensive ones - and the 3 worst net rating lineups. |
Comparing the healthy first unit with the bench mob, the bench play significantly better defense. In my opinion, most of that is the difference between Nance and Randle. Nance is a far superior team defender. |
Actually the difference is that the bench is playing against bench players while the starters are playing against starters. Last night when Nance was faced against starters (Chandler) he got it handed to him. |
Did he? 1 for 3 and 10 rebounds (his average). Your objectivity continues to amaze. |
That doesn't even make sense. I have no idea what that means. Are you of the opinion that Chandler did that in the entire game against Nance? Because you would be wrong. |
He got his one basket and 2 free throws against Nance? It was your stupid comment. You could at least back it up. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Well I watched the game, I guess you must not have. When matched up with Chandler and Len Nance was overmatched. But if you live by the box score I will just pass on a fruitless conversation.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Well I watched the game, I guess you must not have. When matched up with Chandler and Len Nance was overmatched. But if you live by the box score I will just pass on a fruitless conversation. |
thats why you dont play a 6'9 guy against legit 7'1 |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:07 am Post subject: |
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I agree with that Jim.
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governator
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Well I watched the game, I guess you must not have. When matched up with Chandler and Len Nance was overmatched. But if you live by the box score I will just pass on a fruitless conversation. |
thats why you dont play a 6'9 guy against legit 7'1 |
Unless you got Draymond Groin |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Well I watched the game, I guess you must not have. When matched up with Chandler and Len Nance was overmatched. But if you live by the box score I will just pass on a fruitless conversation. |
thats why you dont play a 6'9 guy against legit 7'1 |
Unless you got Draymond Groin |
Draymond is an outlier then a norm |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Chandler isn't a good matchup for small ball, while he is big he is still mobile.
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governator
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Well I watched the game, I guess you must not have. When matched up with Chandler and Len Nance was overmatched. But if you live by the box score I will just pass on a fruitless conversation. |
thats why you dont play a 6'9 guy against legit 7'1 |
Unless you got Draymond Groin |
Draymond is an outlier then a norm |
I know, I just want to type Groin after his name |
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Randle is good for one good effort on a defensive possession. After that he just stands upright and becomes a spectator. Randle has the potential to be an elite perimeter defender if some of Metta's Queensbridge rubs off on him. Unfortunately he has a bit of diva in him. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: |
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At 21 Randle is being asked to be a defender for the first time in his life. Watch his games at Kentucky, Calipari didn't give a damn if he defended or not, that wasn't his role. We need to give him time to learn what he is doing and to absorb what the coaching staff is teaching him. They obviously are very high on him and haven't given up, it is pathetic that so many here have.
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Well I watched the game, I guess you must not have. When matched up with Chandler and Len Nance was overmatched. But if you live by the box score I will just pass on a fruitless conversation. |
thats why you dont play a 6'9 guy against legit 7'1 |
Unless you got Draymond Groin |
Draymond is an outlier then a norm |
DPOY recipients in the past 30 years: http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/awards/by-type/Defensive-Player-Of-The-Year/2
You have to go back a good while to find an undersized PF/C that won DPOY. Ben Wallace in 05... Dennis Rodman in 90... that's about it. They are the two GOAT rebounders, but Green on their level defensively. He's cut from that same cloth and is the exception to the rule.
Size limitations aside, unless players have Tony Allen or Patrick Beverly level of commitment on the defensive end, it's a tough sell to transform undersized players into defensive presences down low, particularly in the rim protection department. The Randle at center experiment isn't working out right now. Same with Nance. I thought the difference last night was Len, despite his offensive woes. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | At 21 Randle is being asked to be a defender for the first time in his life. Watch his games at Kentucky, Calipari didn't give a damn if he defended or not, that wasn't his role. We need to give him time to learn what he is doing and to absorb what the coaching staff is teaching him. They obviously are very high on him and haven't given up, it is pathetic that so many here have. |
at 22 you mean? also the point is not whether he can play defense but whether he puts in the effort and energy thats needed to play defense
he seemed fine yesterday dunking the ball but suddenly he is injured on the defensive end.
point is he didnt give any effort on defensive end |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | At 21 Randle is being asked to be a defender for the first time in his life. Watch his games at Kentucky, Calipari didn't give a damn if he defended or not, that wasn't his role. We need to give him time to learn what he is doing and to absorb what the coaching staff is teaching him. They obviously are very high on him and haven't given up, it is pathetic that so many here have. |
at 22 you mean? also the point is not whether he can play defense but whether he puts in the effort and energy thats needed to play defense
he seemed fine yesterday dunking the ball but suddenly he is injured on the defensive end.
point is he didnt give any effort on defensive end |
Big difference between lateral movement as opposed to going one direction with speed.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | At 21 Randle is being asked to be a defender for the first time in his life. Watch his games at Kentucky, Calipari didn't give a damn if he defended or not, that wasn't his role. We need to give him time to learn what he is doing and to absorb what the coaching staff is teaching him. They obviously are very high on him and haven't given up, it is pathetic that so many here have. |
at 22 you mean? also the point is not whether he can play defense but whether he puts in the effort and energy thats needed to play defense
he seemed fine yesterday dunking the ball but suddenly he is injured on the defensive end.
point is he didnt give any effort on defensive end |
Ok he is 21 and a couple of weeks. And I agree somewhat, his effort on defense was spotty. In the 3rd quarter he was much more engaged than in the first half. But my point stands, you don't go from 0 to 100 in 4 months. It will be a several years long process. If one doesn't have the stomach for that, they can cry and complain and then come back and eat crow.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:50 am Post subject: |
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I can't be the only one that has accepted that Julius Randle's learning curve on the defensive end is going to be much longer than the offensive end.
Even then, he's unselfish, despite some tunnel vision/court awareness issues.
TS% to 54.5% from 48.2%
Scoring from 11ppg to 13ppg
72.5% finishing rate within 3'
40% 10'-16'
Nearly double the assist rate in the same playing time, from 1.8 to 3.4
54.5% from 16' to < 3pt range
Sure, there's system involvement, but that is basically offensive transformation.
He just turned 22.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | At 21 Randle is being asked to be a defender for the first time in his life. Watch his games at Kentucky, Calipari didn't give a damn if he defended or not, that wasn't his role. We need to give him time to learn what he is doing and to absorb what the coaching staff is teaching him. They obviously are very high on him and haven't given up, it is pathetic that so many here have. |
at 22 you mean? also the point is not whether he can play defense but whether he puts in the effort and energy thats needed to play defense
he seemed fine yesterday dunking the ball but suddenly he is injured on the defensive end.
point is he didnt give any effort on defensive end |
Ok he is 21 and a couple of weeks. And I agree somewhat, his effort on defense was spotty. In the 3rd quarter he was much more engaged than in the first half. But my point stands, you don't go from 0 to 100 in 4 months. It will be a several years long process. If one doesn't have the stomach for that, they can cry and complain and then come back and eat crow. |
the last statement was not needed but then thats you just being an A like always.
nobody is accepting 100 from the get go. Effort/Hustle has to be there from the get go and for 48mins.
several years huh? his agent is coming next year asking for more then 20mil/year |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | I can't be the only one that has accepted that Julius Randle's learning curve on the defensive end is going to be much longer than the offensive end.
Even then, he's unselfish, despite some tunnel vision/court awareness issues.
TS% to 54.5% from 48.2%
Scoring from 11ppg to 13ppg
72.5% finishing rate within 3'
40% 10'-16'
Nearly double the assist rate in the same playing time, from 1.8 to 3.4
54.5% from 16' to < 3pt range
Sure, there's system involvement, but that is basically offensive transformation.
He's barely turning 23. |
You are spot on Mike. The one thing I like, similar to offense, is that Julius is eager to step up and take on the best player on the other team. He is an alpha and that is what we need. He doesn't shy away from anything on the floor. That attitude is a welcome one.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | At 21 Randle is being asked to be a defender for the first time in his life. Watch his games at Kentucky, Calipari didn't give a damn if he defended or not, that wasn't his role. We need to give him time to learn what he is doing and to absorb what the coaching staff is teaching him. They obviously are very high on him and haven't given up, it is pathetic that so many here have. |
at 22 you mean? also the point is not whether he can play defense but whether he puts in the effort and energy thats needed to play defense
he seemed fine yesterday dunking the ball but suddenly he is injured on the defensive end.
point is he didnt give any effort on defensive end |
Ok he is 21 and a couple of weeks. And I agree somewhat, his effort on defense was spotty. In the 3rd quarter he was much more engaged than in the first half. But my point stands, you don't go from 0 to 100 in 4 months. It will be a several years long process. If one doesn't have the stomach for that, they can cry and complain and then come back and eat crow. |
the last statement was not needed but then thats you just being an A like always.
nobody is accepting 100 from the get go. Effort/Hustle has to be there from the get go and for 48mins.
several years huh? his agent is coming next year asking for more then 20mil/year |
And the Lakers will pay him, that is good business.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | his agent is coming next year asking for more then 20mil/year |
Then worst case scenario, he doesn't get it, and accepts a lower term or gets involved with a S&T while giving the PT to Larry Nance Jr., Loul Deng, possibly Brandon Ingram while opening PT for Zubac at C and still having cap flexibility.
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Vesper
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Always sell high. Most teams make the mistake of selling too late, losing most of the value.
Orlando did that with Oladipo and now with both Vucevic and payton. |
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levon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| love that Jules is unselfish. it might be because of his lack of shooting, but he is always looking to make quick decisions and the right play, even if he doesn't always make it. last year he was still a poor shooter but would go 1-on-1 almost all the time. |
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dao
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| 20 Million is a steep price, especially with Nance, Deng, and eventually Ingram capable of playing the four. We'll see how it shapes out. |
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