OFFICIAL JULIUS RANDLE THREAD!!
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dao
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
nash wrote:
tox wrote:
nash wrote:

Dlo need a big body setting screens for him and a massive body like Zubac or Mozgov willing to set hard screens all game long helps him a lot. In the other hand, is he helping those screen setters? A legit big makes Dlo look better, but Dlo makes those guys look useless for most part. Zubac don't look like a defensive liability alongside Nwaba, Ennis, Brewer and Nance. I bet Mozgov and even Roy would look better with more mobile defenders willing to make use of their skills on offense. I see those guys getting tired to set screens and cover our perimeter players all game long and they just stop playing hard. Shaq used to tell "feed your dog if you want him to guard the yard".

I don't think your appraisal of Russell's defense is correct. And Mozgov's TS% is 58% next to Russell, versus 51% without him, so from a cursory look it seems Russell does make Mozgov better.

Russell's TS% is 49% without Moz/ Zu, 52.5% with Moz, and 58.7% with Zubac. There are confounding factors, but there might be truth to the idea that Russell plays better with a traditional 5. I wouldn't even rule out your suggestion that it's the screens they set, and their rolling gravity.


Nice to have you bringing actual data because sometimes the eye test fail us. I'm traveling and it is tough to search and paste data from my cellphone. Does Zubac have better shooting averages next to Dlo?


Zubac, next to Russell: 17.7 points per 36, 59.3% TS%
Zubac, without Russell: 16.0 points per 36, 51.7% TS%

Ok, this surprised the hell out of me. I wonder, is it due to playing next to Russell or NOT playing with Clarkson or Lou?

Zubac, with Russell and without Clarkson (NOTE: only 90 min): 17.2 points per 36, 59.7% TS%.
Zubac, without Russell and without Lou: 15.5 points per 36, 52.6% TS%

If I were to combine all these facts together, I would guess that of our three main ballhandling guards (Clarkson, Williams, Russell), Clarkson and Williams don't help or hurt Zubac's production (both volume and efficiency), but Russell does help.

This surprises me, but I wonder if it boils down to the simple fact that Russell is great at getting the ball to the roll man on the short roll, and Zubac is very good at that little floater in the lane off the short roll?
Why is it surprising to you that Zubac plays better with Russell than he does with Clarkson? Seems like a fairly predictable result. Russell looks to get guys the ball in favorable spots. Clarkson doesn't. He lacks awareness and isn't at all a floor general.

It is quite interesting, though, to see Russell's numbers being lowest with no center, higher with Moz, highest with Zu. I imagine that the sample size with no center is pretty small, and also many of those minutes came around the time where his knee was acting up towards the end of the season. Zubac is already a better offensive player than Moz, so Russell doing better with Zubac than he does with Moz potentially does give some indication that center play does have a significant impact on Russell's effectiveness. Zu can shoot a bit too, so spacing might have something to do with it. Our non-centers don't space the floor as well as our centers
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defense
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
defense wrote:

Players like Zubac and Nance will excel with Russell because they run a solid pick and roll with good screens. Both can finish and Zubac can even hit a 15 footer. Also Russell finds guys who get open off the ball. Both Nance and Zubac make a reasonable effort to do that. Basically they do the dirty work (screens) and don't just stand on the 3 point line (Clarkson and Randle). Finally they are both decent at actually catching passes. I think those three make a nice trio offensively. They compliment each other well.
Yeah, that does make sense. What I (and maybe Nash) incorrectly intuited was that players like Clarkson (and Lou) do a better job of feeding bigs easy looks by getting into the teeth of the defense or even via "Kobe assists."

But evidently, that's a reductive way of looking at things, and we can see Russell helps his teammates out in his own way, even if it's not via drive and dish.


No doubt, its two approaches to the same goal. Russell uses organized play to get guys open while Clarkson uses attacking the paint with athleticism. The problem with Clarkson is that he has not found a middle ground yet. A lot of times he will drive and get stuck which forces him to pass or take a bad shot. Some times its a good pass, other times its like what the heck was that? Randle is prone to that too (Driving and getting stuck or charging).
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:00 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
anpherknee wrote:
oh goodness wuttice all dis


Hijacked your son's thread


toxxie how could you???


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject:

dao wrote:
Why is it surprising to you that Zubac plays better with Russell than he does with Clarkson? Seems like a fairly predictable result. Russell looks to get guys the ball in favorable spots. Clarkson doesn't. He lacks awareness and isn't at all a floor general.

It is quite interesting, though, to see Russell's numbers being lowest with no center, higher with Moz, highest with Zu. I imagine that the sample size with no center is pretty small, and also many of those minutes came around the time where his knee was acting up towards the end of the season. Zubac is already a better offensive player than Moz, so Russell doing better with Zubac than he does with Moz potentially does give some indication that center play does have a significant impact on Russell's effectiveness. Zu can shoot a bit too, so spacing might have something to do with it. Our non-centers don't space the floor as well as our centers

It surprised me because I guess I bought into the notion that Lou and JC got Zubac lots of good looks off the PnR which I don't remember Russell getting him. It's the problem with the eye test.

The sample size with no center was actually huge: 883 minutes. About 500 with Moz. About 250 with Zu. Moz is a better midrange shooter than Zu so I don't think it's that. But there's definitely evidence to suggest Zubac is really positive for Russell's offensive performance.

The big caveat I'd point out is that a large amount of Russell's stats with Zubac are bloated by his explosion against the Cavs, which didn't have much to do with Zubac per se. If you exclude that game, he averaged 18 points per 36 on 55.5% TS%.

BTW another interesting effect of Zubac: Russell and Clarkson are TERRIBLE together (47.2% TS% and 46.9% TS% respectively). Add in Zubac to that duo and Russell's TS% is up to 59.1%, excluding the Cavs game (63.9% including it). Clarkson sucks either way, but it's interesting Zubac mitigates the Clarkson effect on Russell's shooting numbers.
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Last edited by tox on Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject:

anpherknee wrote:
tox wrote:
anpherknee wrote:
oh goodness wuttice all dis


Hijacked your son's thread


toxxie how could you???


anphy, I can look up this data for Jules. I'm just not sure you want me to.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
anpherknee wrote:
tox wrote:
anpherknee wrote:
oh goodness wuttice all dis


Hijacked your son's thread


toxxie how could you???


anphy, I can look up this data for Jules. I'm just not sure you want me to.


my love is unconditional fam

numbers shmumbers and alladat


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
anpherknee wrote:
tox wrote:
anpherknee wrote:
oh goodness wuttice all dis


Hijacked your son's thread


toxxie how could you???


anphy, I can look up this data for Jules. I'm just not sure you want me to.


As long as it looks better now than at the start of the season/last season.
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dao
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
dao wrote:
Why is it surprising to you that Zubac plays better with Russell than he does with Clarkson? Seems like a fairly predictable result. Russell looks to get guys the ball in favorable spots. Clarkson doesn't. He lacks awareness and isn't at all a floor general.

It is quite interesting, though, to see Russell's numbers being lowest with no center, higher with Moz, highest with Zu. I imagine that the sample size with no center is pretty small, and also many of those minutes came around the time where his knee was acting up towards the end of the season. Zubac is already a better offensive player than Moz, so Russell doing better with Zubac than he does with Moz potentially does give some indication that center play does have a significant impact on Russell's effectiveness. Zu can shoot a bit too, so spacing might have something to do with it. Our non-centers don't space the floor as well as our centers

It surprised me because I guess I bought into the notion that Lou and JC got Zubac lots of good looks off the PnR which I don't remember Russell getting him. It's the problem with the eye test.

The sample size with no center was actually huge: 883 minutes. About 500 with Moz. About 250 with Zu. Moz is a better midrange shooter than Zu so I don't think it's that. But there's definitely evidence to suggest Zubac is really positive for Russell's offensive performance.

The big caveat I'd point out is that a large amount of Russell's stats with Zubac are bloated by his explosion against the Cavs, which didn't have much to do with Zubac per se. If you exclude that game, he averaged 18 points per 36 on 55.5% TS%.

BTW another interesting effect of Zubac: Russell and Clarkson are TERRIBLE together (47.2% TS% and 46.9% TS% respectively). Add in Zubac to that duo and Russell's TS% is up to 59.1%, excluding the Cavs game (63.9% including it). Clarkson sucks either way, but it's interesting Zubac mitigates the Clarkson effect on Russell's shooting numbers.


but yeah, Zubac is not only a good finisher, but also a surprisingly solid passer, and in general he tends to move around to the right spots on the court. He is a very intelligent player, and apparently these traits make the game easier for Russell, who is also a smart player. It doesn't really surprise me that Clarkson (who sadly has the hoops IQ of a sea snail) doesn't really benefit from improved court awareness of the players around him. He's "out of the loop" mentally.
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dao
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
anpherknee wrote:
tox wrote:
anpherknee wrote:
oh goodness wuttice all dis


Hijacked your son's thread


toxxie how could you???


anphy, I can look up this data for Jules. I'm just not sure you want me to.
I would like to see it. It is a Randle thread after all, lets get back on topic
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject:

Really loved Randle's entire exit interview. He's like I said, that one guy who is the kind of player, talent and worker that he'll show up out of nowhere and be the best player and leader of this team.

What I will say though is that even if he didn't become the best player on this team, he's a very important cog that helps it run.

If he is dedicating his entire off-season to getting into the best shape of his life, and seems to grasp how important his hustle is as well as him citing his own defensive shortcomings... as hard of a worker as he is, I do not doubt he could be an all-star.


He's definitely on his way.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Really loved Randle's entire exit interview. He's like I said, that one guy who is the kind of player, talent and worker that he'll show up out of nowhere and be the best player and leader of this team.

What I will say though is that even if he didn't become the best player on this team, he's a very important cog that helps it run.

If he is dedicating his entire off-season to getting into the best shape of his life, and seems to grasp how important his hustle is as well as him citing his own defensive shortcomings... as hard of a worker as he is, I do not doubt he could be an all-star.


He's definitely on his way.


unless is plays defense consistently and brings energy its going to be tough for him to be a consistent cog
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject:

dao wrote:
tox wrote:

It surprised me because I guess I bought into the notion that Lou and JC got Zubac lots of good looks off the PnR which I don't remember Russell getting him. It's the problem with the eye test.

The sample size with no center was actually huge: 883 minutes. About 500 with Moz. About 250 with Zu. Moz is a better midrange shooter than Zu so I don't think it's that. But there's definitely evidence to suggest Zubac is really positive for Russell's offensive performance.

The big caveat I'd point out is that a large amount of Russell's stats with Zubac are bloated by his explosion against the Cavs, which didn't have much to do with Zubac per se. If you exclude that game, he averaged 18 points per 36 on 55.5% TS%.

BTW another interesting effect of Zubac: Russell and Clarkson are TERRIBLE together (47.2% TS% and 46.9% TS% respectively). Add in Zubac to that duo and Russell's TS% is up to 59.1%, excluding the Cavs game (63.9% including it). Clarkson sucks either way, but it's interesting Zubac mitigates the Clarkson effect on Russell's shooting numbers.


but yeah, Zubac is not only a good finisher, but also a surprisingly solid passer, and in general he tends to move around to the right spots on the court. He is a very intelligent player, and apparently these traits make the game easier for Russell, who is also a smart player. It doesn't really surprise me that Clarkson (who sadly has the hoops IQ of a sea snail) doesn't really benefit from improved court awareness of the players around him. He's "out of the loop" mentally.


I meant that in the context of playing with Russell, JC always sucks. With or without Zubac. At least this past season -- they were okay in '15-'16.
I agree with your entire post though.

As far as Randle goes... I usually start these investigations with some kind of intuition (which often ends up being wrong). Anyone have an idea of who they think makes Randle play better or worse? Or whom Randle makes play better or worse?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject:

Looming pay-day aside ... he's the ideal wildcard prospect for a team.
Flashes of a wide and rare offensive skill-set.. including impact energy.
Could be an impactful player. Hopefully he goes the right way.
Still very much a wildcard though.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
As far as Randle goes... I usually start these investigations with some kind of intuition (which often ends up being wrong). Anyone have an idea of who they think makes Randle play better or worse? Or whom Randle makes play better or worse?


Nick Young?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
tox wrote:
As far as Randle goes... I usually start these investigations with some kind of intuition (which often ends up being wrong). Anyone have an idea of who they think makes Randle play better or worse? Or whom Randle makes play better or worse?


Nick Young?
Yeah that's what I'd expect. Randle makes those little hand off passes, And Young can make tough threes if given a tiny bit of space. Maybe Lou as well.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
nash wrote:
tox wrote:
nash wrote:

Dlo need a big body setting screens for him and a massive body like Zubac or Mozgov willing to set hard screens all game long helps him a lot. In the other hand, is he helping those screen setters? A legit big makes Dlo look better, but Dlo makes those guys look useless for most part. Zubac don't look like a defensive liability alongside Nwaba, Ennis, Brewer and Nance. I bet Mozgov and even Roy would look better with more mobile defenders willing to make use of their skills on offense. I see those guys getting tired to set screens and cover our perimeter players all game long and they just stop playing hard. Shaq used to tell "feed your dog if you want him to guard the yard".

I don't think your appraisal of Russell's defense is correct. And Mozgov's TS% is 58% next to Russell, versus 51% without him, so from a cursory look it seems Russell does make Mozgov better.

Russell's TS% is 49% without Moz/ Zu, 52.5% with Moz, and 58.7% with Zubac. There are confounding factors, but there might be truth to the idea that Russell plays better with a traditional 5. I wouldn't even rule out your suggestion that it's the screens they set, and their rolling gravity.


Nice to have you bringing actual data because sometimes the eye test fail us. I'm traveling and it is tough to search and paste data from my cellphone. Does Zubac have better shooting averages next to Dlo?


Zubac, next to Russell: 17.7 points per 36, 59.3% TS%
Zubac, without Russell: 16.0 points per 36, 51.7% TS%

Ok, this surprised the hell out of me. I wonder, is it due to playing next to Russell or NOT playing with Clarkson or Lou?

Zubac, with Russell and without Clarkson (NOTE: only 90 min): 17.2 points per 36, 59.7% TS%.
Zubac, without Russell and without Lou: 15.5 points per 36, 52.6% TS%

If I were to combine all these facts together, I would guess that of our three main ballhandling guards (Clarkson, Williams, Russell), Clarkson and Williams don't help or hurt Zubac's production (both volume and efficiency), but Russell does help.

This surprises me, but I wonder if it boils down to the simple fact that Russell is great at getting the ball to the roll man on the short roll, and Zubac is very good at that little floater in the lane off the short roll?


I enjoy our debates. I have no problem to say I'm wrong about something if someone bring unbiased data to discussion. I'm really surprised about that and this is why the eye test can blind us about actual data. You look at a spectacular play and it makes you believe it is the rule.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
tox wrote:
As far as Randle goes... I usually start these investigations with some kind of intuition (which often ends up being wrong). Anyone have an idea of who they think makes Randle play better or worse? Or whom Randle makes play better or worse?


Nick Young?
Good one.
With Randle: 58.8% TS%, 38.6% 3FG% (93% assisted), 9.9 3FGA per 36 min
Without Randle: 61.0% TS%, 46.3% 3FG% (88% assisted), 9.1 3FGA per 36

Of course there may be lurking variables here, but it doesn't seem to be true that Randle actually helps Young shoot. This is pure speculation, but I wonder it's because the starters (Russell-Young-Deng-Randle-Moz) often resorted to contested 3s for Nick later in the season when their offensive sets failed. This was a pattern I noticed later in the season -- probably the biggest weakness of our starting unit.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:

I enjoy our debates. I have no problem to say I'm wrong about something if someone bring unbiased data to discussion. I'm really surprised about that and this is why the eye test can blind us about actual data. You look at a spectacular play and it makes you believe it is the rule.
Well said
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
tox wrote:
As far as Randle goes... I usually start these investigations with some kind of intuition (which often ends up being wrong). Anyone have an idea of who they think makes Randle play better or worse? Or whom Randle makes play better or worse?


Nick Young?
Good one.
With Randle: 58.8% TS%, 38.6% 3FG% (93% assisted), 9.9 3FGA per 36 min
Without Randle: 61.0% TS%, 46.3% 3FG% (88% assisted), 9.1 3FGA per 36

Of course there may be lurking variables here, but it doesn't seem to be true that Randle actually helps Young shoot. This is pure speculation, but I wonder it's because the starters (Russell-Young-Deng-Randle-Moz) often resorted to contested 3s for Nick later in the season when their offensive sets failed. This was a pattern I noticed later in the season -- probably the biggest weakness of our starting unit.


Very interesting. I think it's because Julius gets Young shots that are very spontaneous, I'd call them "chuck shots" , or 'ultimate green light shots'.. He out of nowhere pitches/kicks the ball back, and Young is throwing a shot up 1 second later.
I don't mind this action, but if you're not a legit great shooter, it's a really spontaneous shot to put up. Klay would feast off this shot, but Young, not great results.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
tox wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
tox wrote:
As far as Randle goes... I usually start these investigations with some kind of intuition (which often ends up being wrong). Anyone have an idea of who they think makes Randle play better or worse? Or whom Randle makes play better or worse?


Nick Young?
Good one.
With Randle: 58.8% TS%, 38.6% 3FG% (93% assisted), 9.9 3FGA per 36 min
Without Randle: 61.0% TS%, 46.3% 3FG% (88% assisted), 9.1 3FGA per 36

Of course there may be lurking variables here, but it doesn't seem to be true that Randle actually helps Young shoot. This is pure speculation, but I wonder it's because the starters (Russell-Young-Deng-Randle-Moz) often resorted to contested 3s for Nick later in the season when their offensive sets failed. This was a pattern I noticed later in the season -- probably the biggest weakness of our starting unit.


Very interesting. I think it's because Julius gets Young shots that are very spontaneous, I'd call them "chuck shots" , or 'ultimate green light shots'.. He out of nowhere pitches/kicks the ball back, and Young is throwing a shot up 1 second later.
I don't mind this action, but if you're not a legit great shooter, it's a really spontaneous shot to put up. Klay would feast off this shot, but Young, not great results.

I wish we had data for the type of actions. It might be true that Young just chucked bad shots up off of the kick backs, but I think it's also possible that Randle & Young play in lineups that caused Young to jack up shots (e.g. on a short shot clock) that he wouldn't otherwise take. Unfortunately that requires more fine-grained data which we don't have.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
tox wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
tox wrote:
As far as Randle goes... I usually start these investigations with some kind of intuition (which often ends up being wrong). Anyone have an idea of who they think makes Randle play better or worse? Or whom Randle makes play better or worse?


Nick Young?
Good one.
With Randle: 58.8% TS%, 38.6% 3FG% (93% assisted), 9.9 3FGA per 36 min
Without Randle: 61.0% TS%, 46.3% 3FG% (88% assisted), 9.1 3FGA per 36

Of course there may be lurking variables here, but it doesn't seem to be true that Randle actually helps Young shoot. This is pure speculation, but I wonder it's because the starters (Russell-Young-Deng-Randle-Moz) often resorted to contested 3s for Nick later in the season when their offensive sets failed. This was a pattern I noticed later in the season -- probably the biggest weakness of our starting unit.


Very interesting. I think it's because Julius gets Young shots that are very spontaneous, I'd call them "chuck shots" , or 'ultimate green light shots'.. He out of nowhere pitches/kicks the ball back, and Young is throwing a shot up 1 second later.
I don't mind this action, but if you're not a legit great shooter, it's a really spontaneous shot to put up. Klay would feast off this shot, but Young, not great results.

I wish we had data for the type of actions. It might be true that Young just chucked bad shots up off of the kick backs, but I think it's also possible that Randle & Young play in lineups that caused Young to jack up shots (e.g. on a short shot clock) that he wouldn't otherwise take. Unfortunately that requires more fine-grained data which we don't have.


word word. I have no idea if he shoots a good % on those or not; I'm not even going off memory of him missing a lot of them --- just a theory. Maybe Julius doesn't set good screens for Swaggy on non-kickbacks... ?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject:

Interesting. I could also see the pick and roll action (and general screening) better without Randle. That pulls defenders into the paint more, giving Nick more open looks.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject:

dao wrote:
tox wrote:
nash wrote:
tox wrote:
nash wrote:

Dlo need a big body setting screens for him and a massive body like Zubac or Mozgov willing to set hard screens all game long helps him a lot. In the other hand, is he helping those screen setters? A legit big makes Dlo look better, but Dlo makes those guys look useless for most part. Zubac don't look like a defensive liability alongside Nwaba, Ennis, Brewer and Nance. I bet Mozgov and even Roy would look better with more mobile defenders willing to make use of their skills on offense. I see those guys getting tired to set screens and cover our perimeter players all game long and they just stop playing hard. Shaq used to tell "feed your dog if you want him to guard the yard".

I don't think your appraisal of Russell's defense is correct. And Mozgov's TS% is 58% next to Russell, versus 51% without him, so from a cursory look it seems Russell does make Mozgov better.

Russell's TS% is 49% without Moz/ Zu, 52.5% with Moz, and 58.7% with Zubac. There are confounding factors, but there might be truth to the idea that Russell plays better with a traditional 5. I wouldn't even rule out your suggestion that it's the screens they set, and their rolling gravity.


Nice to have you bringing actual data because sometimes the eye test fail us. I'm traveling and it is tough to search and paste data from my cellphone. Does Zubac have better shooting averages next to Dlo?


Zubac, next to Russell: 17.7 points per 36, 59.3% TS%
Zubac, without Russell: 16.0 points per 36, 51.7% TS%

Ok, this surprised the hell out of me. I wonder, is it due to playing next to Russell or NOT playing with Clarkson or Lou?

Zubac, with Russell and without Clarkson (NOTE: only 90 min): 17.2 points per 36, 59.7% TS%.
Zubac, without Russell and without Lou: 15.5 points per 36, 52.6% TS%

If I were to combine all these facts together, I would guess that of our three main ballhandling guards (Clarkson, Williams, Russell), Clarkson and Williams don't help or hurt Zubac's production (both volume and efficiency), but Russell does help.

This surprises me, but I wonder if it boils down to the simple fact that Russell is great at getting the ball to the roll man on the short roll, and Zubac is very good at that little floater in the lane off the short roll?
Why is it surprising to you that Zubac plays better with Russell than he does with Clarkson? Seems like a fairly predictable result. Russell looks to get guys the ball in favorable spots. Clarkson doesn't. He lacks awareness and isn't at all a floor general.

It is quite interesting, though, to see Russell's numbers being lowest with no center, higher with Moz, highest with Zu. I imagine that the sample size with no center is pretty small, and also many of those minutes came around the time where his knee was acting up towards the end of the season. Zubac is already a better offensive player than Moz, so Russell doing better with Zubac than he does with Moz potentially does give some indication that center play does have a significant impact on Russell's effectiveness. Zu can shoot a bit too, so spacing might have something to do with it. Our non-centers don't space the floor as well as our centers


Mozgov, zubac, black, nance, and Deng are alk good bigs working with russell.
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dao
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
dao wrote:
tox wrote:

It surprised me because I guess I bought into the notion that Lou and JC got Zubac lots of good looks off the PnR which I don't remember Russell getting him. It's the problem with the eye test.

The sample size with no center was actually huge: 883 minutes. About 500 with Moz. About 250 with Zu. Moz is a better midrange shooter than Zu so I don't think it's that. But there's definitely evidence to suggest Zubac is really positive for Russell's offensive performance.

The big caveat I'd point out is that a large amount of Russell's stats with Zubac are bloated by his explosion against the Cavs, which didn't have much to do with Zubac per se. If you exclude that game, he averaged 18 points per 36 on 55.5% TS%.

BTW another interesting effect of Zubac: Russell and Clarkson are TERRIBLE together (47.2% TS% and 46.9% TS% respectively). Add in Zubac to that duo and Russell's TS% is up to 59.1%, excluding the Cavs game (63.9% including it). Clarkson sucks either way, but it's interesting Zubac mitigates the Clarkson effect on Russell's shooting numbers.


but yeah, Zubac is not only a good finisher, but also a surprisingly solid passer, and in general he tends to move around to the right spots on the court. He is a very intelligent player, and apparently these traits make the game easier for Russell, who is also a smart player. It doesn't really surprise me that Clarkson (who sadly has the hoops IQ of a sea snail) doesn't really benefit from improved court awareness of the players around him. He's "out of the loop" mentally.


I meant that in the context of playing with Russell, JC always sucks. With or without Zubac. At least this past season -- they were okay in '15-'16.
I agree with your entire post though.

As far as Randle goes... I usually start these investigations with some kind of intuition (which often ends up being wrong). Anyone have an idea of who they think makes Randle play better or worse? Or whom Randle makes play better or worse?
noticed something about Clarkson. His BPM has gotten worse every year.

-0.3
-1.4
-2.7

His RPM has also gotten worse every year.

-2.36
-2.42
-4.01

ouch

We need to find a sucker to take him off our hands, he's not worth his contract imo. I'd trade him for a future 2nd rounder just to clear cap space.
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nash
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:

Zubac, next to Russell: 17.7 points per 36, 59.3% TS%
Zubac, without Russell: 16.0 points per 36, 51.7% TS%

Ok, this surprised the hell out of me. I wonder, is it due to playing next to Russell or NOT playing with Clarkson or Lou?

Zubac, with Russell and without Clarkson (NOTE: only 90 min): 17.2 points per 36, 59.7% TS%.
Zubac, without Russell and without Lou: 15.5 points per 36, 52.6% TS%

If I were to combine all these facts together, I would guess that of our three main ballhandling guards (Clarkson, Williams, Russell), Clarkson and Williams don't help or hurt Zubac's production (both volume and efficiency), but Russell does help.

This surprises me, but I wonder if it boils down to the simple fact that Russell is great at getting the ball to the roll man on the short roll, and Zubac is very good at that little floater in the lane off the short roll?


I was a bit shocked with this post and since my eye test don't use to fails me so badly, I had to watch Zubac's season highlights. If you have 10 minutes to watch it maybe you can change your mind about the post above. I use to miss Lou every time I watch highlights from players like Nance and Zubac.
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