Steady is not good enough. I need to see more. Has the form gotten better? Has his release gotten quicker? Is it confidence? He's slightly more confident. His release is still awful and that shot form is also horrendous. He tosses bricks up there.
I'm not sure what kind of leap you expected in one season. Comparison of Randle's year 1 to year 2 shooting:
While his three point percentage declined slightly he was vastly more efficient from inside 20 feet. He also doubled his assist output while becoming much more efficient in his assist:turnover ratio. Those are big improvements. Pretty much every area of his game improved from year one to year two apart from rebounding, and three point shooting.
He is a concern. His game has improved, but his lack of D and inability to have a reliable outside game and a post up game limits his overall worth. He is exciting on the break and his power drives to the basket are great (when he doesn't throw up a ridiculous shot because of a lack of right hand). Again, not ragging on him, but a CRITICAL decision is coming our way. If our FO makes a mistake with him, we will continue to be bottom dwellers.
People see what they want to see. They watch the action through the lens of their agenda and anything that doesn't line up with that goes unnoticed. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
I've been on the fence about Randle, I've worried that he will become Bynum, and I mean that in all the worst/negative ways that Bynum became much less than his potential. Randle was injured from the very start, but has come back nicely the last 2 years. His character seems great, works hard at times and then his effort goes down, what you might expect from a typical teenager. His motor, handles, and his rebounding especially in year 2 are all great. What he lacks though is the ability to shoot consistently, show complete focus on the court, and the commitment to being a good defensive player.
He will be making about $5 million a year and I am sure this is going to be a prove it year with Randle, as he is going to want to maximize his value. What would you pay him today on a guaranteed 4 year deal; $5-10 million, a Clarkson $12 million a year deal, or are you in the $15-20 million a year camp? Assuming neither Randle, Deng, or Nance get traded there are 3 guys competing for a lot of the same minutes.
If Randle more or less flat-lines next season: 29 minutes 13.2 ppg, 8.6 boards, 3.6 assists, 49% fg% and 27% (yikes) 3pt% I think $10-12 million is as high as I would go with him. He might even need another prove it year if he wants more than that. That's my opinion, but I guess for me he has not wowed with his overall play.
So I am on the fence with Randle, I've tried not to be a hater, like some posters are about Russell, but I really don't want us giving him a big contract and watch him become disappointing the way Bynum was and acted. I think we really need to decide which one we are keeping between Randle and Deng (who I really have bagged on in the Deng thread), factoring in that Deng is likely going to play better next year, and the cost/reward of trading one player over the other.
If no improvement (which I doubt) he would still get 12. Tyler f*** Johnson got a 4 year 50 mil. If he shows any improvment (jemper, right hand, or better defense) he will get 15. If he improves at least 2 of those aspects he will get the max. We will have to pay him or trade him. we cannot afford to lose assets
Bynum was fine until his knees finally gave out. He was a hard worker before then, and Randle is one of the hardest workers on this team who has improved year by year. So I have no idea why you would assume that he will flatline.
Same reason people keep worrying about his jump shot even though he's shown steady improvement in that area.
As has been said in this thread many a time before, some people have just made up their mind about Randle and wont budge no matter how many positive signs of improvement he shows.
Steady is not good enough. I need to see more. Has the form gotten better? Has his release gotten quicker? Is it confidence? He's slightly more confident. His release is still awful and that shot form is also horrendous. He tosses bricks up there. I have not made up my mind on Randle. I see it how it is. I'm not going to overreact every time he shows positive signs. He's been showing all-star like flashes here and there since his first game in the league. That is not the issue here. Can he do it on a consistent basis? Need to see before we commit that money.
If he improves as much as he did last summer is enough. He does not even need a great jumper, just a right hand and more effort/focus on D
julius' shot looked better at the end of last season (on FTs, too). that gives me hope. i'm sure he's working it this summer as well as working on getting ripped.
So if Randle got ripped, BI gained weight (muscles), Ball got drafted and DLo got in better shape, we have 4 guys who can defend/cover multiple positions
So if Randle got ripped, BI gained weight (muscles), Ball got drafted and DLo got in better shape, we have 4 guys who can defend/cover multiple positions
Neither will be able to guard quick opposing PGs (guys like Westbrook, IT, Lillard, C. Paul ...). We still need a guard that has better agility and quick feet.
Bynum was fine until his knees finally gave out. He was a hard worker before then, and Randle is one of the hardest workers on this team who has improved year by year. So I have no idea why you would assume that he will flatline.
Same reason people keep worrying about his jump shot even though he's shown steady improvement in that area.
As has been said in this thread many a time before, some people have just made up their mind about Randle and wont budge no matter how many positive signs of improvement he shows.
Steady is not good enough. I need to see more. Has the form gotten better? Has his release gotten quicker? Is it confidence? He's slightly more confident. His release is still awful and that shot form is also horrendous. He tosses bricks up there. I have not made up my mind on Randle. I see it how it is. I'm not going to overreact every time he shows positive signs. He's been showing all-star like flashes here and there since his first game in the league. That is not the issue here. Can he do it on a consistent basis? Need to see before we commit that money.
I would say you have unrealistic expectations. Everything you mentioned are things that Julius has shown improvement on from previous seasons. A player changing his release and shot for is one the most difficult things to do and typically takes YEARS, and Julius still showed noticeable improvement from the one season to the next.
As for consistency that comes with time, he was more consistent this season than his previous season. If lack of consistency is a concern then you should be just as worried about every young player on the team because Randle was honestly the most consistent out of all of them.
So if Randle got ripped, BI gained weight (muscles), Ball got drafted and DLo got in better shape, we have 4 guys who can defend/cover multiple positions
Neither will be able to guard quick opposing PGs (guys like Westbrook, IT, Lillard, C. Paul ...). We still need a guard that has better agility and quick feet.
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:05 am Post subject:
lewis wrote:
governator wrote:
So if Randle got ripped, BI gained weight (muscles), Ball got drafted and DLo got in better shape, we have 4 guys who can defend/cover multiple positions
Neither will be able to guard quick opposing PGs (guys like Westbrook, IT, Lillard, C. Paul ...). We still need a guard that has better agility and quick feet.
Paging Mr. Dunk Nwaba. He is going to be a key cog going forward. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
People see what they want to see. They watch the action through the lens of their agenda and anything that doesn't line up with that goes unnoticed.
There were stretches of play in both of his two years where he was the most dominant player on the floor. He even averaged a double-double in his first year. You've got folks saying steady isn't enough, and yet it's the only way to develop.
He has his limitations, but what he does do well, and steadily improves upon, makes him a talent worth waiting for until you decide if he's worth what he's asking for.
Personally, I love his physical play, his mano a mano w/Draymond, and then Garnett on another occasion. Take that kind of edginess off of this team, and we're softer than Charmin. I love the kid
So if Randle got ripped, BI gained weight (muscles), Ball got drafted and DLo got in better shape, we have 4 guys who can defend/cover multiple positions
Neither will be able to guard quick opposing PGs (guys like Westbrook, IT, Lillard, C. Paul ...). We still need a guard that has better agility and quick feet.
There isn't a guard on the planet that can stop any of those guys though. The problem is when second and third tier PG's have career games against the Lakers.
People see what they want to see. They watch the action through the lens of their agenda and anything that doesn't line up with that goes unnoticed.
There were stretches of play in both of his two years where he was the most dominant player on the floor. He even averaged a double-double in his first year. You've got folks saying steady isn't enough, and yet it's the only way to develop.
He has his limitations, but what he does do well, and steadily improves upon, makes him a talent worth waiting for until you decide if he's worth what he's asking for.
Personally, I love his physical play, his mano a mano w/Draymond, and then Garnett on another occasion. Take that kind of edginess off of this team, and we're softer than Charmin. I love the kid
.
Ah that's an underrated part of his game for sure. He's a chippy mofo, and has that six pack to back it up. Randle strong.
People see what they want to see. They watch the action through the lens of their agenda and anything that doesn't line up with that goes unnoticed.
There were stretches of play in both of his two years where he was the most dominant player on the floor. He even averaged a double-double in his first year. You've got folks saying steady isn't enough, and yet it's the only way to develop.
He has his limitations, but what he does do well, and steadily improves upon, makes him a talent worth waiting for until you decide if he's worth what he's asking for.
Personally, I love his physical play, his mano a mano w/Draymond, and then Garnett on another occasion. Take that kind of edginess off of this team, and we're softer than Charmin. I love the kid
.
Ah that's an underrated part of his game for sure. He's a chippy mofo, and has that six pack to back it up. Randle strong.
Gotta tell you, those are my initials, and people have been having fun with them all my life, and me too.
So if Randle got ripped, BI gained weight (muscles), Ball got drafted and DLo got in better shape, we have 4 guys who can defend/cover multiple positions
Neither will be able to guard quick opposing PGs (guys like Westbrook, IT, Lillard, C. Paul ...). We still need a guard that has better agility and quick feet.
Nwaba
I know he is our best young perimeter defender, but did he guard any PGs last season? I don't really remember...
So if Randle got ripped, BI gained weight (muscles), Ball got drafted and DLo got in better shape, we have 4 guys who can defend/cover multiple positions
Neither will be able to guard quick opposing PGs (guys like Westbrook, IT, Lillard, C. Paul ...). We still need a guard that has better agility and quick feet.
Nwaba
I know he is our best young perimeter defender, but did he guard any PGs last season? I don't really remember...
So if Randle got ripped, BI gained weight (muscles), Ball got drafted and DLo got in better shape, we have 4 guys who can defend/cover multiple positions
Neither will be able to guard quick opposing PGs (guys like Westbrook, IT, Lillard, C. Paul ...). We still need a guard that has better agility and quick feet.
There isn't a guard on the planet that can stop any of those guys though. The problem is when second and third tier PG's have career games against the Lakers.
that was not the point, just pointing we don't have a defender with enough lateral quickens, only length.. This will be the main weakness of our Russell & Ball back-court. They will be smart of ball defenders and will get steals, but will struggle to guard fast players. Remember that as bad as Clarkson was on defense he was the main on ball defender and Russell was given the opposing SG.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:28 am Post subject:
vicman wrote:
randle isn't good enough on offense to be an average defender. Dlo I will take his defensive liability because of his offensive ability. Don't get me wrong Randle is a very good player but he is my top target to trade. I would like to see them trade Randle and maybe even add clarkson to either get another top pick and grab a defensive player or trade them for a veteran but I think some team could take a Randle clarkson package for a top pick
That would be extremely dumb _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:30 am Post subject:
Truck Turner wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Bynum was fine until his knees finally gave out. He was a hard worker before then, and Randle is one of the hardest workers on this team who has improved year by year. So I have no idea why you would assume that he will flatline.
Same reason people keep worrying about his jump shot even though he's shown steady improvement in that area.
As has been said in this thread many a time before, some people have just made up their mind about Randle and wont budge no matter how many positive signs of improvement he shows.
I honestly wonder if some of these posters really watch Laker games. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:36 am Post subject:
lewis wrote:
governator wrote:
So if Randle got ripped, BI gained weight (muscles), Ball got drafted and DLo got in better shape, we have 4 guys who can defend/cover multiple positions
Neither will be able to guard quick opposing PGs (guys like Westbrook, IT, Lillard, C. Paul ...). We still need a guard that has better agility and quick feet.
Someone like Fox instead of Ball. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
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